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Crysis 3 - CryEngine3 Tech Trailer

Lucius86

Banned
Differences between UE4 and CE3 might not be visible at first hand just by looking at trailers.
I think that the Global Illumination in UE4 is much more complex (and expensive in terms of processing power required).
I recommend all of you guys read the in-depth article on Digital Foundry about UE4.
link

If someone has a similar link to share about the ins and outs of CE3, I'd be grateful :)

The explanation video for UE4 was brilliant. Thanks for sharing.
 

KageMaru

Member
Did you read anything in that thread? That's the whole point in tessellation. It's supposed to overdo everything at pretty much no cost to performance. Tessellated geometry works very differently from regular geometry so your statement of "it makes no sense to tessellate *insert object*" is pretty off base. You cant count triangles from tessellated objects in the same way as you do regular geometry...the scaling is radically different.

Read what thread? This one? Yeah.

Also there is a performance cost to tessellation and it varies based on your GPU and implementation. The actual division of polygons may not have much of an impact, since it's handled by the tessellation units, but rendering of all those polys does have an impact. Unless I'm mistaken, you want to stay away from micro-polys, even on today's GPUs and there were plenty of instances where the mesh stuffed one or more polys per pixel.

Besides, if there was no performance cost, why are there reports of performance dips in C2, among other games when tessellation is enabled?

You can't be serious. CE3>>UE4 all day every day.

I really don't think this is the case at all. Both engines are equally impressive on a technical level, but it's the art that would make one look more impressive than the other. I said it before when Epic first demoed UE4, while the demo showcased the tech appropriately enough, the art didn't really have the impact it should have IMO.
 

cbox

Member
Honestly that shit with dirt on the lens is fucking annoying. As someone with glasses, I put up with that shit every day and I'm constantly cleaning my lenses.

Find some new fx to exploit crytek...
 
I thought the multiplayer in Crysis 2 was really awesome! I loved the beta and I loved the game, although the hackers ruined in it's infancy.

Hopefully Crytek UK is working on the multiplayer for this game as well...something Crysis Wars would be great! :D
 

scitek

Member
Seems like it. By the time UE4 catches up, CE4 will be out and blow everyone away again.

Well, since Crytek entered the console space, Epic's stepped their game up a bit with UE3.5 and 4. It can't be a coincidence, really. Competition's always a good thing.
 

markao

Member
Read what thread? This one? Yeah.

Also there is a performance cost to tessellation and it varies based on your GPU and implementation. The actual division of polygons may not have much of an impact, since it's handled by the tessellation units, but rendering of all those polys does have an impact. Unless I'm mistaken, you want to stay away from micro-polys, even on today's GPUs and there were plenty of instances where the mesh stuffed one or more polys per pixel.

Besides, if there was no performance cost, why are there reports of performance dips in C2, among other games when tessellation is enabled?

That reason is rather simple, 1st generations AMD cards are extremely bad at handling tessellation and that's coming from someone who is extremely pleased with his own 5850 ;) Why do you think AMD invented "AMD optimised tessellation/level" setting in CCC. It's a mode that limits the amount of tessellation that's being done in game, from 64X (normal amount) down to 2x, so your AMD card does not struggle with games that use tessellation.


It's a shame people keep linking to that article written by someone who clearly had no idea, or limit at best, how tessellation worked, let alone how CE3 handles it and then draw the conclusion that Crytek was pleasing nVidia instead of understanding that AMD was the one struggling.
 

heyf00L

Member
CE3 and UE4 are both amazing beyond my comprehension. I don't care too much which one is better. I'm just excited for games to look like this. I've been waiting for lit/shadowed fog/smoke for a long time. I'm still waiting for a helicopter to fly through smoke and make it swirl, though.
 

KageMaru

Member
That reason is rather simple, 1st generations AMD cards are extremely bad at handling tessellation and that's coming from someone who is extremely pleased with his own 5850 ;) Why do you think AMD invented "AMD optimised tessellation/level" setting in CCC. It's a mode that limits the amount of tessellation that's being done in game, from 64X (normal amount) down to 2x, so your AMD card does not struggle with games that use tessellation.


It's a shame people keep linking to that article written by someone who clearly had no idea, or limit at best, how tessellation worked, let alone how CE3 handles it and then draw the conclusion that Crytek was pleasing nVidia instead of understanding that AMD was the one struggling.

I just skimmed over the article, but I thought it talked about the tessellation settings for AMD cards, no? Also I've read reports of tessellation impacting performance on more than just 1st gen AMD cards, unless I was mistaken.
 
Im just gonna leave this here...

c3_announcement00052.png

The suit is definately photoshoped. Crytek did the same with Crysis 2 screenshots.
 

markao

Member
I just skimmed over the article, but I thought it talked about the tessellation settings for AMD cards, no? Also I've read reports of tessellation impacting performance on more than just 1st gen AMD cards, unless I was mistaken.
Not sure what you mean, but in case of Crysis 2, it's only first generation AMD cards that struggle with it (tessellation), unless you turn down the "level setting" in the CCC.


Of course if you trow to much at current gen tessellators, there comes a point they all will start to struggle, but that's not the case with Crysis 2.


The suit is definately photoshoped. Crytek did the same with Crysis 2 screenshots.
Yes for magazine shots, they always use a higher poly count model, not sure why just those and not all screenshots.
 
I just skimmed over the article, but I thought it talked about the tessellation settings for AMD cards, no? Also I've read reports of tessellation impacting performance on more than just 1st gen AMD cards, unless I was mistaken.

tesselation absolutely does impact performance, but the hit isn't nearly as bad as it was on the HD5xxx series these days. it's certainly not free, and it's not often worth that performance hit just to get a cleaner silhouette. it's certainly not worth ANY performance hit to tesselate occluded objects, as Crysis 2 did to insane degrees on certain levels.

on a lot of games though, some tesselation in the right places on the right things gives you a big improvement for minimal hit, and in theory it should let you start off with a very low poly mesh as your base mesh, and tesselate in your detail, to give you a really nice LOD effect with hardly any noticeable 'popping' between detail levels. if you've ever seen the Unity tesselation demo you'll know what i mean, but until it's a standard feature no one is going to be happy with a single flat rectangle representing a flight of steps with tesselation turned off.

if tessellating doesn't bring a performance hit with it, you had the overhead to do it, and certainly in any such case, there's zero reason to have it off.
 

Kydd BlaZe

Member
I'm too lazy to build a badass rig to run this in all of it's glory. I just hope that the next-gen consoles can produce these visuals and effects.
 

Perkel

Banned
Yeah, Crysis is "open world."

It's not completely open world. But if you go that way both Crysis 2 and probably 3 are not closed spaces but closed matchboxes.

I can understand people. Whoa that leaf look phenomenal. Problem is, I know, you know, everybody know that they can't use that in game same as this toad, simply because those scenes were created to show only one thing in picture. On bigger scale it won't happen in near future and "real in game footage" is bullshit because this frog and leaves are not something that will be in final game.

You should be happy if they will include proper good textures for PC release knowing how Crytek don't give a shit about PC camp anymore.
 

KageMaru

Member
Not sure what you mean, but in case of Crysis 2, it's only first generation AMD cards that struggle with it (tessellation), unless you turn down the "level setting" in the CCC.

Of course if you trow to much at current gen tessellators, there comes a point they all will start to struggle, but that's not the case with Crysis 2.

I'm sorry, I meant I've read reports of other games (not Crysis 2) effecting performance when tessellation is enabled.

tesselation absolutely does impact performance, but the hit isn't nearly as bad as it was on the HD5xxx series these days. it's certainly not free, and it's not often worth that performance hit just to get a cleaner silhouette. it's certainly not worth ANY performance hit to tesselate occluded objects, as Crysis 2 did to insane degrees on certain levels.

on a lot of games though, some tesselation in the right places on the right things gives you a big improvement for minimal hit, and in theory it should let you start off with a very low poly mesh as your base mesh, and tesselate in your detail, to give you a really nice LOD effect with hardly any noticeable 'popping' between detail levels. if you've ever seen the Unity tesselation demo you'll know what i mean, but until it's a standard feature no one is going to be happy with a single flat rectangle representing a flight of steps with tesselation turned off.

if tessellating doesn't bring a performance hit with it, you had the overhead to do it, and certainly in any such case, there's zero reason to have it off.

Yup, agreed on all of this. I understand how tessellation works, I just think I did a poor job explaining my point. =)
 

scitek

Member
It's not completely open world. But if you go that way both Crysis 2 and probably 3 are not closed spaces but closed matchboxes.

I can understand people. Whoa that leaf look phenomenal. Problem is, I know, you know, everybody know that they can't use that in game same as this toad, simply because those scenes were created to show only one thing in picture. On bigger scale it won't happen in near future and "real in game footage" is bullshit because this frog and leaves are not something that will be in final game.

You should be happy if they will include proper good textures for PC release knowing how Crytek don't give a shit about PC camp anymore.

What are you talking about? Those were all scenes from an actual level in Crysis 3. They've shown it off already.
 

Perkel

Banned
What are you talking about? Those were all scenes from an actual level in Crysis 3. They've shown it off already.

I speak about how they use that sentence to trick you that this frog or those leaves will be in game at this level of quality which is a lie.

As of rest yeah it's from already seen footage.
 

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not

Fucking brilliant.

I'm tired of companies showing stuff like this and not saying the platform. No way PS3 and Xbox will look this good, but they are hoping people will think it is and buy that product. When it's really all pc footage.

Because it happened to me when I bought Crysis 2 on ps3.

The tessellation should have been a clue that its not PS360.
And i dont think Crysis 3 will be a launch title for the next gen consoles.....that leaves Nintendo Wii as the platform being demoed.
 

-SD-

Banned
http://www.crydev.net/viewtopic.php?p=1026135#p1026135

Real-Time Volumetric Cloud Shadows - This is the first time they've been volumetric shadows (interact with fog). The cloud shadows are also now fully deferred and projected on all objects in the environment and not just the terrain.

Pixel Accurate Displacement Mapping - We'll have more info on this at a later date. The important thing to know is that it does NOT use tessellation and no other tech is able to do this yet.

Tessellated Vegetation - Until now, vegetation hasn't been able to be tessellated due to some limiting (albeit other awesome tech!) factors which we've managed to overcome for an all-encompassing solution.

Lens flares - A host of new flare types that react in different scenarios, dynamic & artist defined.

Procedural HDR Flares & Shapes - Until now these haven't been shaped (like bokeh effects, rather than just a bloomy circle) and are procedurally processed in real time.

3rd Gen GI - Now processes glossy reflections.

Water Caustics - Caustics now process above (and improved below) water level, reflecting on nearby surfaces.

Volumetric Fog Shadows - These may look like sunshafts but they're not, they're shadows being received in fog. Sunshafts only appear when you look at the sun. Volumetric Fog Shadows are evident from all angles and you can also follow the outline of the shadow they produce from the caster all the way through the fog to the ground.

Area Lights - More info on this at a later stage but no one else is using area lights like this in games yet either.

Particle FX Lighting - The particle system in C3 underwent optimisation and received improved approximation for lighting details so we can do more, better.

Cloth & Vegetation simulation - The vegetation system has undergone backend revamping to allow better interaction with the world & players more realistically and to perform better than ever before. Cloth also reacts more realistically with wind and bending.

This is just some of the tech we're working on here and we're excited to talk about more in the future :)
 

KKRT00

Member
Dunno if You guys noticed it, but particles affected physics of water :)

Amazing tech, more so when it showed actual game, not tech demo constrained space.
 

Dennis

Banned
Just watched the high quality version - holy shit at the difference!

People need to watch the 350MB 1080p .mov version



frog approved
 
From what I've heard, Epic's documentation and support is superior to Crytek's, or at least was until quite recently. As an engine UE3 is fairly easy to develop for and stable on all current generation platforms. Plus a lot of people have experience with it.

Not sure what the licensing costs are. But it's hard to ask devs to pass on UE3, even of CE3 is superior in technology, if UE3 is the easiest, most supported engine to develop for.

There was a thread about the cost of using UE3. It´s 500k a game iirc.
 

DieH@rd

Banned
Its a shame we dont have HQ version of Agni footage. Even the best footage available is not really good. Elemental has glorious 3gb footage.
 

Corky

Nine out of ten orphans can't tell the difference.
Personally, I think Agni Philosophy is far more impressive than that

Difference being the agni tech demo was ( with regards to things like say animation, scenery, camera angles etc ) much less representative of an actual game whereas this ce3 clip is much more of a tech featurette using ingame assets and scenarios from an actual game.

But yes, visually the agni demo is more impressive.
 
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