Baconsammy
Banned
Because they really love games, and really hate the idea of buying more than one over-priced proprietary memory card. Maybe?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Vita firmware update locks memory cards
- Thread starter Jucksalbe
- Start date
Because they really love games, and really hate the idea of buying more than one over-priced proprietary memory card. Maybe?
semiconscious
Member
wow! thanks for that - captures my opinion of what goes on up here much of the time just about perfectly
...I'm sorry; you'll have to excuse me. I get angry when people act like the plight of a normal person is not as important as a corporation's bottom line. Even angrier when no visible benefits are being gained and people just appear to be cheerleading because they can't stand to see someone disagree with the decisions of their chosen corporate deity, or because they demonstrate an incredible lack of empathy for what other people are going through just because it "doesn't affect them."
I've said all I have to say, and apparently everyone else has said what they have to say. So that'll just about do it here.
I hate the idea of buying more than one piece of over-priced proprietary console hardware but I really love games so what am I gonna do?
You take no issue with Straw Men though.
it is actually mentioned in every PSVITA official thread on this very site..
´
and you did not have to format your card..
Baconsammy
Banned
Whatever you deem is necessary. And then I'll do whatever I deem necessary. Funny how that works. If you're not pissed at Sony, that's cool. I am. And that's also cool. With the Vita essentially DOA, one would assume they'd do whatever possible to please current owners and attract new ones. Doesn't seem to me like Sony's all that concerned with doing that. They have made it easier and easier for me to ignore them this gen though. And that's a shame.
And /thread. When people start whipping out the lame "STRAW MAN" garbage it's time to move on. Especially when they use it incorrectly. Good god.
Plight? Plight?
It's a device that only allows on concurrent user to be signed to the hardware. It's hardly a new concept- iPods, Android phones, 3DSs, you name it and it's likely there.
Don't be a martyr, especially when it comes to downloading your PSone games, jesus. It's annoying for some, but c'mon already.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
No card wiping was necessary before: You'd have to wipe the system memory and re-start from factory default inputting your PSN details and accessing the content you'd left on that card from another region. For some things like different region store's demos and apps, they werent locked to Accounts so you could have them and use them on your other normal region account, but for most if not all purchased stuff, that wasn't the case.
Its a big massive long workaround that was super laborious to even go through, and really having a card for each region was going to be the only way to make sense of it for backing up. I guess Sony decided to railroad that decision today so they can pick up a bob or two from memory card sales if everyone wasn't actually incensed and swearing off them for good.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
Fucking Sony. Trying to get people to buy more mem cards. Fuck you and this shitty decision Sony.
OmegaTreeFish
Banned
you basically had to format the vitas internal memory but didnt have to format the card itself.
So when done you could log in with a new / alternate account but the vita acts as if turned on for the first time (including unskipable welcome movie). The bubbles would be jumbled up all over the place and your backgrounds reset. This points to something that wasn't really intended but still it was so easy to do it was hard to believe it was a simple loop hole but it probably was.
You can then get things on the other store. For something like the netflix app you can then switch back to an EU account and still use it on that account (the only thing I did an account switch for).
Its was long winded but not hard to do.
So this change adds one more step, basically. The step itself is simple, but copying all that information takes a while so people are ticked there. Got it.
PSX games are region-locked, just like any other content you'd "need" a second account for, so that's why I used them as an example.
Your use of the word "plight" is hyperbolic and laughable, and the Spartacus/soapbox attitude is just silly to me. For all the work-arounds you were doing prior you'd think you would have backed up your saves at some point.
Saint Gregory
Member
And this is a post made by someone who proudly identifies themself as a corporate cheerleader.
If that doesn't make those of you who are defending this ashamed then nothing will.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I can't see the benefit of doing this, aside from just wanting people to buy more memory cards.
No, you do not have it. People are upset because this update locks them out of their own personal data on the card. The fact that you have to use a separate card is crappy but not the primary issue by those of us with grievances.
Let me lay it out nice and simple:
Before the update, you switch accounts on the Vita, and the data associated with several accounts could live together in harmony on the same memory card.
After the update, the Vita gets angry if there exists data from multiple accounts and wants to format the card so that only data from one account exists, giving you no opportunity to back up the data associated with those other accounts.
Opus Angelorum
Member
Answered in your query.
OmegaTreeFish
Banned
Yes. But thats not the issue. Its people that have used it to purchase and play games from different stores. They can now only access the data on the currently active account meaning all your save data on the other account is gone. Thats the really annoying bit for people in that situation.
Different publishers have different region restrictions, outside of hardware manufacturer's hands. There was likely some third-party pressure, and I'm sure the ability to sell another memory card helped, but worldwide gaming companies have their own corporate and territorial bullshit too.
So you can just backup save data to a PC/Mac/PS3 if you want to switch accounts then. It's time consuming, but if you really want multiple accounts it's there. It's just one more step than before, albeit a time-consuming one. I've got it.
Phife Dawg
Member
Whoa some of the comments here...smh.
Who doesn't use multiple accounts on the PS3? I sure do. Would've done the same if I'd own a PSV by now. If Sony wanted to lock down the account system they should've done it right from the start. That way they just screw over their loyal customers who bought into the system when it's future is pretty much a big question mark.
edit:
To clarify: Referring to the locking out of data associated to another account on the mem card
Who doesn't use multiple accounts on the PS3? I sure do. Would've done the same if I'd own a PSV by now. If Sony wanted to lock down the account system they should've done it right from the start. That way they just screw over their loyal customers who bought into the system when it's future is pretty much a big question mark.
edit:
To clarify: Referring to the locking out of data associated to another account on the mem card
corporate cheerleader
Member
Exactly. Being a consumer means that you don't defend a company's move that negatively affects you, unless there is a huge benefit to it or some sort of compensation. Some guys here value Sony's interests more than theirselves and they even dog on a person who lost saves, so they can't even show a little compassion for a fellow consumer. I'm not gonna sugar coat it, this is fucking miserable.
Seems like you're discovering what it means to be an informed and discerning consumer. Nice. Don't see it as a shame, just enjoy the companies that do things the way you want them to and ignore the ones that don't.
Framing this discussion as some sort of console war thing is pathetic. It is a misrepresentation of the opposing viewpoint.
Revolutionary
Member
The number of memory cards is irrelevant here - it's a pain in the ass to switch accounts with one OR two cards... the process is virtually the same (the difference being the switching of cards, of course). The point I was trying to get at is that switching accounts on Vita is not a simple process at all, and again, I highly doubt it was ever intended to be supported as some of you think. There's a reason there isn't a log-in list like on the PS3.
Hopefully Sony gets their shit together and adds the official ability to switch accounts on Vita but with this memory card stuff shit, I don't think that's going to happen anymore. Party's over for you guys, unfortunately.
Everyone uses multiple accounts on PS3 because there's a log in list right when you start the thing up. There's no such thing for a Vita.
That really sucks, but I'm one of those guys that has no desire to have multiple accounts. I just don't see much use for them, but I know some people do. I'm pretty content with the US offerings, and the account swapping on the Vita seemed like more hassle than it's worth. Sorry to all the people that used multiple accounts, though.
I wonder if this is some kind of countermeasure to a system vulnerability they found?
I wonder if this is some kind of countermeasure to a system vulnerability they found?
I can't say, but they're begging for someone to open the Vita up now and "fix" this.
It might be a misrepresentation of your viewpoint, but you can't speak for everybody in here, and I wasn't even framing the entire discussion in any which way regardless. There are specific people in this thread who are reliably on Sony's side in every one of these threads where we find out Sony did something that some people don't like.
The bottom line is that regardless of what Sony intended, losing personal data without warning is a Bad Thing and isn't something that can be defended. We can sit here and look backward with our 20/20 hindsight goggles and say "oh, well you should have known better," but that doesn't help anybody and just makes the person sound like an unempathetic jerk.
You can once you've read this thread and found out what happens. You can't if you download the update without any knowledge of what was going to happen.
Live Free or Die
Banned
This is just another non issue being blown out of proportion by Sony haters.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
Is that you, Sam?
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
This is so shitty by Sony, I'm sure this will help their struggling vita sales. Losing data is just unacceptable.
Saint Gregory
Member
And this is the real problem here. All big three console manufacturers have made some anti-consumer, dick moves this gen but only Sony for some reason has been pulling these antics where they remove features from their systems with little to no warning after people have gotten used to using them.
But of course there's always people who think that's OK just so long as they weren't effected.
No, actually, you can't. Not when you've already downloaded 1.8. There was zero warning that 1.8 would lock people out of their non-region saves. And if the PSV can't access the files, you can't back them up.
That's the main problem here.
edit: haha wow beaten
I think a lot of people, myself included, originally looked at doing multiple accounts on a Vita as a work-around that involved enough tip-toeing that it clearly wasn't something supported natively. It was never part of the "experience" or whatever and it wasn't what was promised as part of the console, so when this change hit with 1.8 (along with a lot of other awesome improvements), well... some people just think it was almost expected that they'd try and close this hole.
This is just another non issue being blown out of proportion by Sony haters.
I wouldn't go that far... but people are over-exaggerating, I'll agree.
Going forward you abolsutely can, and you had more than enough time prior to backup saves at some point, and considering the obtuse way people had to jimmy-rig the console activations/accounts on the Vita it shouldn't have been a shock. Anyone who hasn't updated their Vita yet can still make backups, too.
Losing save data definitely stinks. I remember losing my GTA3 back in the day when I had a card glitch. Dark times.
grimshawish
Banned
Why? Seriously, why?
Personally I think this is miss-selling of the memory cards, these aren't SD cards but Sony propriety cards sold at a massive price, if you buy a large one to handle multiple accounts your screwed - people might have multiple users.
So yeah - am not sure if Sony are allowed to do this. They sell these memory cards AND control the system. If you want, you should be able to demand a full refund for the card.
Who sat in a meeting and said:
"Theres a problem with the Vita! It has multiple accounts on its overly expensive customer turn off memory cards!"
Personally I think this is miss-selling of the memory cards, these aren't SD cards but Sony propriety cards sold at a massive price, if you buy a large one to handle multiple accounts your screwed - people might have multiple users.
So yeah - am not sure if Sony are allowed to do this. They sell these memory cards AND control the system. If you want, you should be able to demand a full refund for the card.
Who sat in a meeting and said:
"Theres a problem with the Vita! It has multiple accounts on its overly expensive customer turn off memory cards!"
Fair enough, it just seems that people in this topic have to choose 'outraged' or 'Sony knob jockey' when some of us are neither. I genuinely believed that it had been one account per card since the beginning. That's why the workaround was so long winded, or so I thought.
Losing the data fucking sucks, no doubt. They really ought to have provided the option to back up prior to installing the FW. I do sympathise because losing saves is utterly shit.
Baconsammy
Banned
You just need to learn who the hardcore defenders are, and then learn to tune them out completely. They're as useless as the people who blindly hate everything.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Just give up, he clearly has no idea how it works and just keeps going on about nonsense.
Going forward? Why do you think she's pissed? She LOST her data NOW because she can't backup, why are you giving her shit then?
whalleywhat
Member
"I'm not listening to you because you're emotionally involved and this doesn't personally effect me." Awesome.
darkblade77
Member
Was ultimately planning to pick up a vita in part because of access to JP titles, needing a second memory card sets that investment back a bit on paper.
But between this and the whole P4Arena deal I get the impression that there is a very strong desire to keep things region-locked overseas, and it doesn't seem too farfetched that the Vita may go down that road even further for future importing.
So I guess for me this is a lost sale, and maybe a mild wake-up call. I'm not prepared to jump more and more surprise hoops discouraging import, or in the worst case, hypothetically pay for up to 2 Vita systems in the future if I want to import and still play games released in the US. It's clear that while this isn't something that Sony currently plans to do, it is also something they would likely have little internal grief doing and I have no desire to get burned in the future.
But between this and the whole P4Arena deal I get the impression that there is a very strong desire to keep things region-locked overseas, and it doesn't seem too farfetched that the Vita may go down that road even further for future importing.
So I guess for me this is a lost sale, and maybe a mild wake-up call. I'm not prepared to jump more and more surprise hoops discouraging import, or in the worst case, hypothetically pay for up to 2 Vita systems in the future if I want to import and still play games released in the US. It's clear that while this isn't something that Sony currently plans to do, it is also something they would likely have little internal grief doing and I have no desire to get burned in the future.
Thank goodness for your impartial commentary on the situation though, eh!
I'm not giving her shit as much as I'm explaining exactly what you're questioning.
Read my post over and you'll see an answer to your question.
BomberMouse
Member
For the consumer? none.
But it created a more controlled environment for publishers for sure. For example, with the advent of F2P games I can see why it might be problematic for some developers to have a JP-only F2P title played by someone in a NA account.
That was never possible. If you downloaded a JP game on your card and switched to your NA account, the Vita would refuse to start that game on the NA account, because it doesn't belong to that account.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Maybe you should actually be reading her posts with the things you've responded with. Thanks though.
I don't think you understand how account switching works.
IC_Champion
Member
Damn. That's just heinous.
Phife Dawg
Member
Well according to Sony PSV owners are also PS3 owners. So they're used to it. Sony specifically stated PSV would be region free, of course I'd look into using multiple accounts. And if you can do it with one mem card, sure why not, considering the obnoxious price for these things.
I could understand such a move if the users in question were hacking or something but it basically worked as some Sony rep stated before the US launch iirc.
It's all a big conspiracy man, I tell you.This is just another non issue being blown out of proportion by Sony haters.
demigod
Member
Yes I can, because you were aware of this. You even stated that you knew of the thread detailing this yet YOU are the one that misinterpreted this. Now why didn't you just pony up the dough and get a 2nd memory card like R_thanatos? Oh right, you took the cheap way, just like my analogy.
I'm not defending Sony, but it was clear from DAY ONE that it was one memory card per account.
BomberMouse
Member
Oh sorry then, I thought I heard it worked in some titles, mimicking the behaviour of how a PS3 works. BTW, have you tried getting your saves back by doing a backup in a pre-1.8 vita?