-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Spec-Ops dev claims multiplayer "raped" game mechanics, like "cancerous growth"
- Thread starter mescalineeyes
- Start date
jep, i understand why the dev's disliked the idea of multiplayer because of "message" and everything but the value proposition of the SP alone is a bit thin. A decent MP could have provided more content without having to bloat the SP with unnecessary stuff.
theytookourjobz
Junior Member
What you think when you hear cancer and rape are not the only definitions of the words.
A merely decent MP isn't going to get anyone's attention or provide any kind of value. There's too much quality competition, and unlike singleplayer, a good multiplayer will keep people in it for an indefinite amount of time. Unless the game stood out in a significant way and did something extremely unique, it wouldn't get any attention unless it stood with the best of the best.
Not that I disagree on the value proposition thing (I bought Spec Ops for $25, after all), but a better multiplayer mode would have done nothing to change my mind.
Of course not, but it's becoming annoyingly common and it's hardly going to help it's public image.
Alcoholikaust
Member
Truth. Thanks.
Well on their own, there definitely is a specific definition I think about, but put into a different context, I dont even think twice about their uses, so long as it makes sense. In this case, they are extreme words, but that was likely the intent if he feels that strongly about it, which is sounds like he does.
I dont see the problem here.
theDeeDubs
Member
Wonder how much was spent on making the MP? I'm looking forward to the end of tacked on MP personally. I enjoyed it in Uncharted, AC, and Mass Effect, but that's about it. It has no place in games like Spec Ops, Binary Domain, and NeverDead.
Personally, I'm PLEASED to see a developer speak out against "forced/tacked-on" multiplayer content in a game that was obviously mandated by 2K as the publisher. I mean, they pretty much did the same damned thing with BioShock 2.
And if it took using such "colorful" language to do so, then so be it!
And if it took using such "colorful" language to do so, then so be it!
mescalineeyes
Banned
It's the type of thread that, as a junior, I consider to be a fucking minefield and try to stay away from. That being said, I'm too stupid / concerned about the topic to take my own advice so I hope it won't come back to bite me.
Cory Davis used a figure of speech, and as far as I can tell it is a violent one, yes, but it seems adapted to the message he wanted to convey (see Tomat's view on this). I have lost an aunt to cancer, should I be angry about the choice of words the man made ? Should I fight everybody who use them ?
Well, as much as, being an aspiring writer, I like to think words have power, the fact is that they only have the power you allow them to.
It's one thing to fight for consideration in the way people talk online, to be sad about the rape trend in online multiplayer, etc... It's another to be outraged by a metaphor someone use because you have a personal problem, an history with it.
I hope I'm clear in my choice of words, english is not my native language and I supremely don't want to hurt you OP, but the fact remains: Cory Davis surely meant no disrespect and used a figure of speech, nothing else.
Cory Davis used a figure of speech, and as far as I can tell it is a violent one, yes, but it seems adapted to the message he wanted to convey (see Tomat's view on this). I have lost an aunt to cancer, should I be angry about the choice of words the man made ? Should I fight everybody who use them ?
Well, as much as, being an aspiring writer, I like to think words have power, the fact is that they only have the power you allow them to.
It's one thing to fight for consideration in the way people talk online, to be sad about the rape trend in online multiplayer, etc... It's another to be outraged by a metaphor someone use because you have a personal problem, an history with it.
I hope I'm clear in my choice of words, english is not my native language and I supremely don't want to hurt you OP, but the fact remains: Cory Davis surely meant no disrespect and used a figure of speech, nothing else.
mescalineeyes
Banned
Thank you, Li Kao. That was like the sweetest post in the world.
The Faceless Master
Member
how is rape worse than cancer? cancer KILLS people!
It's not a competition.
Run-M-Run
Member
So this is a thread about a guy using words "rape" and "cancer"?
I personally find his point more troubling.
Say what you will, but tacked on multiplayer is taken from the resources of the rest of the project and is unneccesary and, indeed, cancerously spreading to single player games. It's obvious when a game's multiplayer will not live past first month. What does it become then? An exercise in futility.
I personally find his point more troubling.
Say what you will, but tacked on multiplayer is taken from the resources of the rest of the project and is unneccesary and, indeed, cancerously spreading to single player games. It's obvious when a game's multiplayer will not live past first month. What does it become then? An exercise in futility.
pieatorium
Member
lol
someguyinahat
Member
Checked to see whether OP is now a Junior Member. Was not disappointed.
That's one bad title.
That's one bad title.
I don´t think multiplayer is the right way to increase value in this case (also in most others).
A longer campaign, more replay value, way more polishing and better gameplay mechanics in general are the things i´d rather see .
megamerican
Member
I don't have a problem with what he said. It's over the top, but it's preferable to PR nonspeak.
It's too bad they spent so much effort on MP. I think that if they had released it in 2010 as intended it would have made a much bigger splash than it did now.
It's too bad they spent so much effort on MP. I think that if they had released it in 2010 as intended it would have made a much bigger splash than it did now.
Haunted
Member
Yup, that was the faulty premise, despite all their "marketing studies". Even a great multiplayer mode would've changed jack shit for the game's longevity. They should've completely embraced what kind of project this is instead of diluting it with these kind of empty bullet point features.
I strongly disagree. Again, successful adaptation of Heart of Darkness. Automatically makes what the game has to say a million times more interesting than any other title in the genre (military shooter). Every hour spent with the game is worth it to follow the development of the story and ultimate payoff at the end.
I couldn't care less about the cancer remark, but the rape reference made me cringe when I read this article last night. And I suppose it belies a certain irony at odds with the game's much-touted ostensible thematic maturity and artfulness.
And considering that this was a $50 million game in development for about five years, something tells me that this article paints a somewhat prettier picture of development.
And considering that this was a $50 million game in development for about five years, something tells me that this article paints a somewhat prettier picture of development.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
I actually find the thread title very mean spirited and slightly insulting, considering my younger brother (also a gaffer) died of cancer, and the whole rape fiasco in the news these days. I hope it gets changed.
StevePharma
Member
People are offended on the Internet.
Please develop a shield for that sort of stuff guys, because it means nothing. Cancer hit close to home for me too but it's just a word. I'm medically schooled so i'm already pretty clinical about it.
The analogy was apt and describes the feelings of the designer well. That is the more interedting discussion here, MP has indeed become somewhat of a cancer in the industry, sucking away precioud money and manpower while adding nothing to anything but the AAA games, and even those struggle (like Dead Space 2 and EA's idiotic policy to include MP in everything)
Please develop a shield for that sort of stuff guys, because it means nothing. Cancer hit close to home for me too but it's just a word. I'm medically schooled so i'm already pretty clinical about it.
The analogy was apt and describes the feelings of the designer well. That is the more interedting discussion here, MP has indeed become somewhat of a cancer in the industry, sucking away precioud money and manpower while adding nothing to anything but the AAA games, and even those struggle (like Dead Space 2 and EA's idiotic policy to include MP in everything)
PSYGN
Member
You're right, but just don't say it that way, man
Uh... I think you're being a bit silly with your sensitivity.
Ignoring the cancer/rape debate, he's absolutely right. But it also raises another point about the structure of pricing in the industry. No one in their right mind should/would spend $60 on a 4-6 hour linear campaign, no matter how many mature themes it deals with. Now $30? Perhaps then more people would have jumped on it without the tacked-on multiplayer. One of these days, publishers will finally get it through their skulls that throwing superfluous features in a game doesn't justify a $60 price tag for a game that simply doesn't need it.
Net_Wrecker
Member
And there's my post. Despite his choice of words, he's absolutely right. There's a stranglehold on the multiplayer market at the moment. Why bother wasting money tacking on multiplayer to your game? Just make the singleplayer portion bigger and better, price accordingly, and see what happens.
Dictator93
Member
You know I agree with you.
His wording is brought on by a clear frustration wit the tacking on of multiplaye (just because). If he wishes to use words like "cancerous" and "raped," so be it.
Really people, read a book form the 20 century and see the language used at times. "Raped" and cancerous are descriptive words beyond their literal function
The word "rape" has more than one use and always has. It originally didn't even have a sexual context.
There is a big difference between getting offended at a racial slur versus an actual word with legitimate uses.
insane0hflex
Member
Personally I just find it distasteful to use strong "controversial" language like rape and cancer, unless this is the intended effect he was going for. Getting noticed, generating buzz because of key words people should care less about.
On topic: I'm getting tired of tacked on Multiplayer. Whats the point if its half baked, unbalanced, and not fun...just so you can claim "Oh we got a single player campaign AND you can frag your friends in our un-imaginitive online multiplayer!"
I wish BF3 and COD would stay away from Singleplayer, focus only on multi (because seriously who plays COD and BF3 for singleplayer), and other games focus solely on just singleplayer (Like Spec Ops) and leave multiplayer alone.
On topic: I'm getting tired of tacked on Multiplayer. Whats the point if its half baked, unbalanced, and not fun...just so you can claim "Oh we got a single player campaign AND you can frag your friends in our un-imaginitive online multiplayer!"
I wish BF3 and COD would stay away from Singleplayer, focus only on multi (because seriously who plays COD and BF3 for singleplayer), and other games focus solely on just singleplayer (Like Spec Ops) and leave multiplayer alone.
Interfectum
Gold Member
is this thread really about using cancerous and raped? Fucks sake people you don't have to be offended by everything. He's obviously using harsh words to nail down his point.
Riposte
Member
Trivializing a word doesn't trivialize an action. Words are inherently trivial without context.
EDIT: Two more things, since this is hardly a videogame thread to begin with...
I find it funny people are making separate judgment values on words inconsistently. "Cancer is okay, but rape is NOT". We could throw in murder, so we can have the classical "Which is worse? Rape or murder?" Maybe someone can bring up how sacrilegious it is to use God's name in vain and then get piled on by everyone on GAF.
I'm noticing a lot of "I'm not offended, but... I'm offended." If you are not finding his grammar or writing style distasteful (in other words: saying he is a bad writer/speaker), then you are probably offended by this particular hyperbole. Admitting you are offended by something would be a more honest position to start from.
John Rabbit
Banned
trying too hard for an avatar quote.
i always liked using "pillaged" instead of "raped" in the context of the OP. it connotes sort of the same thing without the "really man?" sting of using "rape".
Because rape is used in this context all the time?
It's used in lots of different contexts. Maybe you should read more.
hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
The way this guy used the words wasn't typical gamer talk though, it was more traditional use of emphatic metaphor. People might say we "rape the environment" to use a strong, emotional word to describe what we do to natural habitats. This is not the same, in my book, as the casual use of "rape" that gamers have adopted.
Using "cancer" as a metaphor doesn't bother me either way, but it's a less political issue.