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Halo |OT8| A Salt on the Control Room

H

Hydranockz

Member
I don't really agree with the idea that having a radar makes the game slower or more campy. Whenever I play SWAT or MLG or some other no-radar mode I always find myself being far more cautious and less willing to push forward. It's kinda like Counter Strike for me in that regard.

From a camping perspective, the only thing that changes is when you can see the other player coming. Other than that campers gonna camp. When I think of no-radar modes, I think of how easy it is to camp a normal and still run up behind them and assassinate or something.

Depends on the kinda player I guess.
 
B

Brolic Gaoler

formerly Alienshogun
Tashi said:
We need to leave MLG settings out of this. I mean just removing the radar for a hardcore playlist. I would want the full AA, armor mod and weapon list to be available for every gametype. However, I'm just questioning what would break if radar was removed, and only radar. We actually talked about this in the last podcast with Bravo. We just don't know what will happen.

Again, not talking about potential MLG settings.
Click to expand...

The thing is if you just remove radar everyone will use PV and it's counter will no longer be available ( the ping on the radar).

Posting this again for the new page.

Frank/Ellis can you guy say if Recruit is the starting armor so us LE purchasers can get clarification on what we are actually getting?
 
A

Amazing Mic

Neo Member
I keep looking at the abilities and support options, nothing really stands out to me- which is probably the point. I have no idea what I'm going to even start off with.

Any idea how close to launch it typically is before we see the full playlist set? I'm not sure if I'm justified for being nervous about the possibility of Doubles getting the axe. Probably unjustly worried because of the focus on new/modified play types and talk of a streamlined game set.
 
T

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
Alienshogun said:
The thing is if you just remove radar everyone will use PV and it's counter will no longer be available ( the ping on the radar).

Posting this again for the new page.

Frank/Ellis can you guy say if Recruit is the starting armor so us LE purchasers can get clarification on what we are actually getting?
Click to expand...

You don't know that for sure though.

Also, what about camo?

Ugh I'm scared. Someone ease my mind lol
 
D

Der Flatulator

Member
Tashi said:
We need to leave MLG settings out of this. I mean just removing the radar for a hardcore playlist. I would want the full AA, armor mod and weapon list to be available for every gametype. However, I'm just questioning what would break if radar was removed, and only radar. We actually talked about this in the last podcast with Bravo. We just don't know what will happen.

Again, not talking about potential MLG settings.
Click to expand...

I shouldn't have used the the word MLG, I should have said hardcore. I wanted to avoid using the word competitive.
 
O

Overdoziz

Banned
No radar means less camping at lifts
No radar means less camping with CQC power weapons
No radar means people have to rely more on their awareness so that creates a bigger skill-gap
No radar means that people won't be restricted in their movement as much
No radar means not having to crouch to sneak up somewhere which speeds up the game

If you ever play in the 2v2 playlist you probably know how bad radar can be on certain maps. On Asylum you can stay on your side of the map and camp there for the longest time and win. On Anchor 9 you can stay near the Rocket spawn the entire match and win. It's hilariously broken.
 
I

IHaveIce

Banned
Mister Negative said:
so what does the boltshot actually do

is it like a mauler that you charge up?
Click to expand...

yeah, I really want to know the required shots for a kill.
Normal and charged.


No motion tracker would be a dream.


Overdoziz said:
No radar means less camping at lifts
No radar means less camping with CQC power weapons
No radar means people have to rely more on their awareness so that creates a bigger skill-gap
No radar means that people won't be restricted in their movement as much
No radar means not having to crouch to sneak up somewhere which speeds up the game

If you ever play in the 2v2 playlist you probably know how bad radar can be on certain maps. On Asylum you can stay on your side of the map and camp there for the longest time and win. On Anchor 9 you can stay near the Rocket spawn the entire match and win. It's hilariously broken.
Click to expand...
I agree, especially the thing with the 2v2 playlist and Asylum.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Mister Negative said:
so what does the boltshot actually do

is it like a mauler that you charge up?
Click to expand...

Regular shot is a rapid fire, precision (headshot capable) projectile. Good at short to medium range. The overcharge is akin to a shotgun blast, and needs to be timed well to be effective; handy for pulling out and ambushing someone.

It strikes me as something that will be more useful in Campaign/Spartan Ops, but it may have situational uses in MP.
 
M

Mister Negative

Member
GhaleonEB said:
Regular shot is a rapid fire, precision (headshot capable) projectile. Good at short to medium range. The overcharge is akin to a shotgun blast, and needs to be timed well to be effective; handy for pulling out and ambushing someone.

It strikes me as something that will be more useful in Campaign/Spartan Ops, but it may have situational uses in MP.
Click to expand...

Neat. Might actually use it over the Magnum seeing as how the one comparison I've seen makes it seem more like the Halo 3 magnum than anything else...ick.
 
R

Risen

Member
Hydranockz said:
Whenever I play SWAT or MLG or some other no-radar mode I always find myself being far more cautious and less willing to push forward.
Click to expand...

Is that because you are out of your comfort zone? I mean in general terms there is little doubt you can move around more quickly unless in someone's line of sight without being detected when playing without radar. I totally get that players who aren't used to playing without would play more passively though as they are less sure of where others will be. This, like other things in Halo has a real learning curve, that once realized frees players to move more.

With radar, how many times are you stopping at a corner when you see a dot, or crouch in order to prevent being seen. These are how it slows the game down.




Hydranockz said:
Depends on the kinda player I guess.
Click to expand...

Totally agree here though... for a variety of reasons, it completely depends on the player. I have friends who are not that great, who are not very aware, that will go into hibernate mode in no radar game types because they have no idea where they will be shot from, and others that are quite good, completely comfortable in their skill, and will be super aggressive with radar present.


I think when most talk about radar slowing the game down, or no radar speeding it up, it is in the most general terms they make the comparison - and it seems pretty true to me. But that's modified by individual players.


It's just like the debate on the DMR in Reach and open maps. Some players feel they have to camp and ping away and cannot move, while others feel it makes them more dangerous from anywhere and move more as a result.
 
H

Hydranockz

Member
Overdoziz said:
No radar means less camping at lifts
No radar means less camping with CQC power weapons
No radar means people have to rely more on their awareness so that creates a bigger skill-gap
No radar means that people won't be restricted in their movement as much
No radar means not having to crouch to sneak up somewhere which speeds up the game

If you ever play in the 2v2 playlist you probably know how bad radar can be on certain maps. On Asylum you can stay on your side of the map and camp there for the longest time and win. On Anchor 9 you can stay near the Rocket spawn the entire match and win. It's hilariously broken.
Click to expand...

I just don't see how the bolded is true. Take the lifts. Why is it less likely that someone will camp lifts? They can hear you coming up. Radar has really nothing to do with it there.

Someone camping with a shotty or sword is going to camp regardless of having a radar because the awareness is always benefitting the camper. Without radar, the camper can only hear footsteps, panting or gunshots that are not their own and so they will always have far more awareness than someone who is wandering.

Radar certainly makes camping easier but I just don't think that not having a radar reduces it in any significant manner.
 
F

feel

Member
I love playing without radar, I feel free to move around.

Beckx said:
Did not see this posted yet - via HBO: all chestpieces & stances.
Click to expand...
Now THIS is an improvement over Halo 3's suit customization. Actual entire suit parts with lean and smooth designs. Reach's armory sucked so hard, you could only change the helmet, the rest of it was just ugly out of place accesories slapped on top of the clunky default armor for the most part.
 
R

Released

Member
Der Flatulator said:
Prisoner, Halo CE. "Get on top!" iirc. Now that's a story!
Click to expand...

My favorite was always "Dude, you really need to..."

And for the radar conversation, one of the reasons competitive leagues don't use it is to emphasize team coordination and communication to locate opponents. MLG has been far more willing to include radar in gametypes like FFA and 1v1.
 
A

Amazing Mic

Neo Member
Overdoziz said:
If you ever play in the 2v2 playlist you probably know how bad radar can be on certain maps. On Asylum you can stay on your side of the map and camp there for the longest time and win. On Anchor 9 you can stay near the Rocket spawn the entire match and win. It's hilariously broken.
Click to expand...

The one upside is some maps obviously aren't designed for 2v2 and are a bit big. Feel radar actually helps pace at times by avoiding the aimless searching of opponents for an extended period- particularly when a team is turtle-ing w/ a lead.
 
K

Karl2177

Member
Hydranockz said:
I just don't see how the bolded is true. Take the lifts. Why is it less likely that someone will camp lifts? They can hear you coming up. Radar has really nothing to do with it there.

Someone camping with a shotty or sword is going to camp regardless of having a radar because the awareness is always benefitting the camper. Without radar, the camper can only hear footsteps, panting or gunshots that are not their own and so they will always have far more awareness than someone who is wandering.

Radar certainly makes camping easier but I just don't think that not having a radar reduces it in any significant manner.
Click to expand...

I agree with you for the most part. Campers are gonna camp. But to add to Risen's point: in Reach radar definitely slows down the game more than Halo 1, 2, and 3 because of the height indicators.
 
T

TheOddOne

Member
Shadders said:
Decent interview with Frankie from PAX: https://forums.halo.xbox.com/yaf_postst110757_Your-Questions-for-Frankie-Answered.aspx

Waypoint link so probably won't work. Good luck.
Click to expand...
Das Kalk: While we're on the subject of CTF, you've revealed some pretty significant changes to the way that CTF works. What are some of the reasons behind these changes?

You know, that's definitely a better question for a designer, because they'll be able to go into more depth, but ultimately it's speeding up the pace across the board in the encounters and the objectives and so on. There's definitely some fairly controversial things in that mode, like fact that you can't drop the flag, the fact that you have a pistol. The pistol is getting some tweaks to it right now, so the one that's on the floor isn't quite final. But yeah, it's definitely controversial, we totally get that, the first thing that people get excited about, being polite about it, is change, and so whenever we do something radical or significant, we know that there's going to be that kind of effect. But you guys played it, and I'm not going to put words in your mouth, so you guys should say how it felt to you, how big a difference that those two changes, the carrying a pistol and the inability to drop or juggle the flag, how did it affect the pace? I know how I feel about it, but I work on the game, my opinion is completely flawed, obviously, in some ways, but my serious opinion is that it improves it, it speeds it up, it changes it, definitely, and it takes a little while to get used to, but that's what I enjoy. But you guys played it, nobody told you what to say, you should say what you think about it, whether it's good or bad.
Click to expand...
.
 
R

Risen

Member
Hydranockz said:
I just don't see how the bolded is true. Take the lifts. Why is it less likely that someone will camp lifts? They can hear you coming up. Radar has really nothing to do with it there.

Someone camping with a shotty or sword is going to camp regardless of having a radar because the awareness is always benefitting the camper. Without radar, the camper can only hear footsteps, panting or gunshots that are not their own and so they will always have far more awareness than someone who is wandering.

Radar certainly makes camping easier but I just don't think that not having a radar reduces it in any significant manner.
Click to expand...

I don't think Over means less camping with CQC weapons, or less camping lifts... I think he means less dying to people doing those things lol.

Having said that, play Countdown in 2v2 and watch how slowly the game plays. Typical MM kids grab a lead, get up top, and crouch in a corner waiting for someone to walk by. Now, some of those may still do this with no radar, but it makes it a less viable strategy because it removes foreknowledge of the other player's position.

With radar you can watch all directions at once, and if people are having to crouch walk you have additional time to visually check corners/directions because they will be moving more slowly. Without radar you can only check one direction at a time, and the other person could be moving at top speed, decreasing the time you have to check them.
 
P

Poker Face

Member
SD: So, not all grey?

Well, it's still ultimately a building block set, but it definitely looks a lot more concrete and less repetitive than we've been criticized for in the past. But yeah, I think Forge is going to be interesting this time around.
Click to expand...

So I guess that means awful forge maps again. -_-
 
F

feel

Member
So according to that interview, Spartan Ops' CGi episodes will be streamed. Well that sucks for me and my connection that can only get VHS quality out of Waypoint, will have to wait for them to hit youtube in good quality or something before playing.
 
A

Amazing Mic

Neo Member
Am I wrong in remembering a playlist/game where radar was map dependent? I see the value in 2v2 no radar, but then I'm reminded of a map like Enclosed where opponents will respawn behind you when they have no business being there. It'd be completely maddening.

I realize you could claim that's more of an issue w/ map design, but that's always going to happen.
 
O

Overdoziz

Banned
Hydranockz said:
I just don't see how the bolded is true. Take the lifts. Why is it less likely that someone will camp lifts? They can hear you coming up. Radar has really nothing to do with it there.

Someone camping with a shotty or sword is going to camp regardless of having a radar because the awareness is always benefitting the camper. Without radar, the camper can only hear footsteps, panting or gunshots that are not their own and so they will always have far more awareness than someone who is wandering.

Radar certainly makes camping easier but I just don't think that not having a radar reduces it in any significant manner.
Click to expand...
Let me put it this way:
Camping is less encouraged and simply less effective.
When you camp at the lifts on Construct or Countdown just seeing if there's people at bottom of the lifts are near there makes it more appealing to stay there for a bit longer. If you don't have a radar you don't get as good of an idea of when they're close to entering the lift so people will generally camp less.

It also reduces the amount of people hiding around corners for a short moment with a CQC weapon. This isn't really camping but still frustrating nonetheless. What if you see someone on the radar coming towards you, you can crouch for a moment around the corner and catch them (fairly) off guard. Again, without radar this becomes less of an issue.

I'm sure these situations will still happen in matches without radar but I'm certain it will become less of an issue. Relying on sound isn't as easy as relying on a very clear and obvious radar.


In the end I dislike CQC power weapons anyway because of the gameplay that is encourages. More often than not when they're used against you it's in a situation where the CQC weapon wielder comes around the corner and you're already practically dead the moment you see what weapon the other person is holding. I don't find it particularly fun to fight against.
 
H

Hydranockz

Member
Risen said:
I don't think Over means less camping with CQC weapons, or less camping lifts... I think he means less dying to people doing those things lol.

Having said that, play Countdown in 2v2 and watch how slowly the game plays. Typical MM kids grab a lead, get up top, and crouch in a corner waiting for someone to walk by. Now, some of those may still do this with no radar, but it makes it a less viable strategy because it removes foreknowledge of the other player's position.

With radar you can watch all directions at once, and if people are having to crouch walk you have additional time to visually check corners/directions because they will be moving more slowly. Without radar you can only check one direction at a time, and the other person could be moving at top speed, decreasing the time you have to check them.
Click to expand...

This I can understand. I was going to respond to your first post on the matter but I had to grab some lunch. That last paragraph really nails it though.

Edit: Yeah that does certainly make it easier to understand Over. I definitely agree that CQC power weapons ain't fun to fight against (but then again, they are power weapons).
 
T

Tha Robbertster

Member
Horse Armour said:
Been avoiding Halo 4 campaign footage. Can someone explain why there are humans other than the chief in the game?
Click to expand...

In one of the levels (I'd guess it's the 3th) the UNSC Infinity crashes into Requiem. The Infinity is the biggest human ship ever produced and uses Forerunner tech and I guess it was sent to Requiem to investigate the distress signal Cortana send out or (The Thursday war spoilers)
The UNSC is chasing the religious part of the Elites who still hate the humans and also still believe in the great journey to Requiem
 
T

Tawpgun

Member
Horse Armour said:
Been avoiding Halo 4 campaign footage. Can someone explain why there are humans other than the chief in the game?
Click to expand...

They come from a ship that arrives at Requiem shortly after the chief.

How they got there and why they're there is probably going to be answered in game. It's these covenant separatists I want to know more about.
 
A

ArchedThunder

Banned
Tawpgun said:
They come from a ship that arrives at Requiem shortly after the chief.

How they got there and why they're there is probably going to be answered in game. It's these covenant separatists I want to know more about.
Click to expand...

It's actually explained in The Thursday War.

A better question is why do The Storm have Grunts and Jackals.
 
O

Orochinagis

Member
Ajemsuhgao said:
"GET BETTER" would be a great one. I think I would start playing really poorly, just to hear him say that to me.
Click to expand...

228px-Accuracy_medal.png
 
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