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The Ten Years Decline of Sony

Sad story. They really need to change their philosophy. I like the "failure is acceptable" mentality, but it just doesn't work for a huge company anymore. I hope they can recover.
 

olimpia84

Member
Very well written article but damn, this is scary. I knew Sony wasn't in the best shape but that article really puts things into perspective. The PS4 has got to be very successful otherwise I'm afraid Sony will be leaving the console market if another PS3 type scenario happens.

If they're any smart Sony should go the Nintendo route and make the PS4 just slightly more powerful than the PS3 but I can already tell they're somewhat avoiding that direction with all this stuff about the PS4 supporting 4K resolution crap. Why not go the simpler route and make profit from day one instead of trying to come up with a behemoth console every generation?
 
Sony should double down in their mobile efforts and just scrap the Vita at this point as they are just throwing money into a pit. What I don't understand is why they seem to be going full force with the tv division when it seems to be the biggest loser. I know we all want the best games here but I have to smh everytime someone asks Sony to put out a 500-600 dollar beast console just to please them not realizing how terrible that idea is. I see people here talking about how Sony is "pro gamer" when that is the exact problem they are in right now. People saying Sony is the only "pro gamer" company around fails to realize that the type of gamer they are is not the only type of gamer in the market and that's exactly why Vita is failing. It was made specifically for the Gaf type gamer ignoring all market trends and data.
 

Derrick01

Banned
Sony should double down in their mobile efforts and just scrap the Vita at this point as they are just throwing money into a pit. What I don't understand is why they seem to be going full force with the tv division when it seems to be the biggest loser. I know we all want the best games here but I have to smh everytime someone asks Sony to put out a 500-600 dollar beast console just to please them not realizing how terrible that idea is. I see people here talking about how Sony is "pro gamer" when that is the exact problem they are in right now. People saying Sony is the only "pro gamer" company around fails to realize that the type of gamer they are is not the only type of gamer in the market and that's exactly why Vita is failing. It was made specifically for the Gaf type gamer ignoring all market trends and data.

Which is exactly why we love them. I'm not in business so I don't give a shit if some soccer mom can't dance around her living room with a certain device as long as I can play what I want to play.
 
Which is exactly why we love them. I'm not in business so I don't give a shit if some soccer mom can't dance around her living room with a certain device as long as I can play what I want to play.

Well at the current rate you won't be able to play them. The current insider mentality that many gamers have is exactly why core gaming is becoming such a money sink and why iPad/social/casual/etc. gaming is a big point of interest for many developers. It's funny the derision that comes from core gamers towards anything not aimed at them is exactly the thing leading to more of it. It's in everyone's best interest that more people consider gaming as a hobby going forward and end the FUCK DEM CASUALZ mentality.
 

Derrick01

Banned
Well at the current rate you won't be able to play them. The current insider mentality that many gamers have is exactly why core gaming is becoming such a money sink and why iPad/social/casual/etc. gaming is a big point of interest for many developers. It's funny the derision that comes from core gamers towards anything not aimed at them is exactly the thing leading to more of it.

Make up your mind, we're either important enough to cause shifts in the industry or we're not and Vita is a bomb.
 
Make up your mind, we're either important enough to cause shifts in the industry or we're not and Vita is a bomb.

I never said one way or the other. Saying that a product targeted specifically at a certain group led to it being a bomb and that certain group's vitriolic hate of "outsiders" is a big problem is basically saying the same thing.

But you can go on complaining about casuals ruining the industry and see how far it gets you. I love Sony's constant insistence on new IP and want their game studios to continue, but they can't continue doing the exact same thing expecting different results or hoping Microsoft/Nintendo screw up enough to get back on top.
 
Which is exactly why we love them. I'm not in business so I don't give a shit if some soccer mom can't dance around her living room with a certain device as long as I can play what I want to play.


Why is that soccer mom or anyone else who plays games for that matter not a gamer? That's just elitist non-sense.

Personally, I don't want the gaming industry to become so insular that it stops innovating. Screw the status quo.
 

Oersted

Member
Very well written article but damn, this is scary. I knew Sony wasn't in the best shape but that article really puts things into perspective. The PS4 has got to be very successful otherwise I'm afraid Sony will be leaving the console market if another PS3 type scenario happens.

If they're any smart Sony should go the Nintendo route and make the PS4 just slightly more powerful than the PS3 but I can already tell they're somewhat avoiding that direction with all this stuff about the PS4 supporting 4K resolution crap. Why not go the simpler route and make profit from day one instead of trying to come up with a behemoth console every generation?

psone? ps2? ps3 besides bluray?
 

Oersted

Member
Which is exactly why we love them. I'm not in business so I don't give a shit if some soccer mom can't dance around her living room with a certain device as long as I can play what I want to play.

you surely want games on your dedicated gamers device, don´t you?
 
psone? ps2? ps3 besides bluray?

PS2 was definitely not profitable from day 1 and you can't just throw blu ray out of the equation for PS3. Regardless, it's not the fact that they lose money day 1 that is the big problem.

Could they get Disney to overpay for the rights to Spiderman considering the success of the Avengers?

Why would they give up one of their movie studios biggest money makers for a one time cash deal?
 
Sony should double down in their mobile efforts and just scrap the Vita at this point as they are just throwing money into a pit. What I don't understand is why they seem to be going full force with the tv division when it seems to be the biggest loser. I know we all want the best games here but I have to smh everytime someone asks Sony to put out a 500-600 dollar beast console just to please them not realizing how terrible that idea is. I see people here talking about how Sony is "pro gamer" when that is the exact problem they are in right now. People saying Sony is the only "pro gamer" company around fails to realize that the type of gamer they are is not the only type of gamer in the market and that's exactly why Vita is failing. It was made specifically for the Gaf type gamer ignoring all market trends and data.

But what is "pro gamer"? I have a PS360 and a gaming PC, but the Vita doesn't interest me at all.
 

Derrick01

Banned
Why is that soccer mom or anyone else who plays games for that matter not a gamer? That's just elitist non-sense.

Personally, I don't want the gaming industry to become so insular that it stops innovating. Screw the status quo.

Really? Because in this casual obsessed industry in the last 4-5 years I haven't seen any innovation worth a damn. It's all a focus on inputs that are worse than what we've had for the last 13 years resulting in even worse games. The industry innovated the most when it was the most "insular".

And I'm choosing to not even bring up how awful most games are now because of focus testing and an obsession with making games more accessible and streamlined.
 

Oersted

Member
PS2 was definitely not profitable from day 1 and you can't just throw blu ray out of the equation for PS3. Regardless, it's not the fact that they lose money day 1 that is the big problem.



Why would they give up one of their movie studios biggest money makers for a one time cash deal?

you read my post wrong. i thought he meant it in the "big console that makes a huge technical difference" way. could be wrong though
 
But what is "pro gamer"? I have a PS360 and a gaming PC, but the Vita doesn't interest me at all.

Well that's why I threw it in quotations especially considering the memory card situation there, but anyway the idea seems to be that pushing specs as hard as possible and selling for barely any profit is how you become pro gamer.

Really? Because in this casual obsessed industry in the last 4-5 years I haven't seen any innovation worth a damn. It's all a focus on inputs that are worse than what we've had for the last 13 years resulting in even worse games. The industry innovated the most when it was the most "insular".

And I'm choosing to not even bring up how awful most games are now because of focus testing and an obsession with making games more accessible and streamlined.

And that's your opinion where obviously a large group of people disagree. Just the advantage of being able to play games in a way that fits many people's lifestyles much better (ios,tablet) is a huge innovation. Obviously there were problems with motion controls, but aren't you a part of the same group of people that claims that if no one ever pushes the limit with tech it will never improve? You can't have it both ways.
 
But what is "pro gamer"? I have a PS360 and a gaming PC, but the Vita doesn't interest me at all.

Honestly, I'm not even sure how Sony can be considered "pro gamer". Vita has those expensive memory cards and PS3 added a needlessly expensive blu-ray drive. The only company I think I could make a remotely coherent "pro gamer" argument is Nintendo.

Edit-


Really? Because in this casual obsessed industry in the last 4-5 years I haven't seen any innovation worth a damn. It's all a focus on inputs that are worse than what we've had for the last 13 years resulting in even worse games. The industry innovated the most when it was the most "insular".

And I'm choosing to not even bring up how awful most games are now because of focus testing and an obsession with making games more accessible and streamlined.


Here you go again. You try to turn every thread like this in to a referendum on your personal gaming tastes.
 

apana

Member
PS2 was definitely not profitable from day 1 and you can't just throw blu ray out of the equation for PS3. Regardless, it's not the fact that they lose money day 1 that is the big problem.



Why would they give up one of their movie studios biggest money makers for a one time cash deal?

Didn't they already sell the merchandising rights to Spiderman? I am talking about a big deal, Disney has a lot of money and perhaps they would be willing to spend billions of dollars on Spiderman.
 
Honestly, I'm not even sure how Sony can be considered "pro gamer". Vita has those expensive memory cards and PS3 added a needlessly expensive blu-ray drive. The only company I think I could make a remotely coherent "pro gamer" argument is Nintendo.

The only company you could make an argument about this with is Valve and even they have a large desire to make a lot of money. People who convince themselves that almost any gaming company's primary goal isn't making money is fooling themselves.


Well they are the only pure gaming company who makes consoles anymore. Some of their business tactics are shady as hell, but they aren't trying to push their parent companies agenda.
 
Honestly, I'm not even sure how Sony can be considered "pro gamer". Vita has those expensive memory cards and PS3 added a needlessly expensive blu-ray drive. The only company I think I could make a remotely coherent "pro gamer" argument is Nintendo.

mj-laughing.gif
 

Derrick01

Banned
And that's your opinion where obviously a large group of people disagree. Just the advantage of being able to play games in a way that fits many people's lifestyles much better (ios,tablet) is a huge innovation. Obviously there were problems with motion controls, but aren't you a part of the same group of people that claims that if no one ever pushes the limit with tech it will never improve? You can't have it both ways.

No? I only ask for beefier systems each new generation, I don't need countless input gimmicks and other useless features on systems. I don't even like how many crap entertainment apps 360/ps3 has added in the last few years.

And ios is part of what I was talking about with negative "innovations" because it's hugely dumbed down from what we've had. So bad that it can't play the majority of traditional genres. That becoming so popular is not doing the fans of this industry any favors.
 

Bgamer90

Banned
Which is exactly why we love them. I'm not in business so I don't give a shit if some soccer mom can't dance around her living room with a certain device as long as I can play what I want to play.

That's shortsighted though since if they continue on their path, they will stop making games that you (or anyone else) wants to play.

Why? They will be pretty much out of business.
 


Yeah, well they are a pure gaming company. That said, I'm not going to make the argument.



The only company you could make an argument about this with is Valve and even they have a large desire to make a lot of money. People who convince themselves that almost any gaming company's primary goal isn't making money is fooling themselves.


Valve is a stronger pick, I guess.

Regardless, it's a meaningless distinction.
 
No? I only ask for beefier systems each new generation, I don't need countless input gimmicks and other useless features on systems. I don't even like how many crap entertainment apps 360/ps3 has added in the last few years.

And ios is part of what I was talking about with negative "innovations" because it's hugely dumbed down from what we've had. So bad that it can't play the majority of traditional genres. That becoming so popular is not doing the fans of this industry any favors.

And here is where you can't seem to separate your personal tastes with what people actually like.
 

Derrick01

Banned
And here is where you can't seem to separate your personal tastes with what people actually like.

So you think it's a good thing that it can't play most kinds of games? That it only encourages casual gaming? You seem quick to jump on me for wanting a core gamer focus only but you're eager to accept the opposite.

But whatever I'm done talking about it. Just thinking about ios angers me.
 

Bgamer90

Banned
And ios is part of what I was talking about with negative "innovations" because it's hugely dumbed down from what we've had. So bad that it can't play the majority of traditional genres. That becoming so popular is not doing the fans of this industry any favors.

Most of the genres/games that are popular on iOS are games that would be pointless and/or lose their charm if played with a controller.

Other games/genres port over to iOS just for $ and most of them fail in terms of critical reception. There's innovation on iOS, you just got to look past the forced ports.
 
So you think it's a good thing that it can't play most kinds of games? That it only encourages casual gaming? You seem quick to jump on me for wanting a core gamer focus only but you're eager to accept the opposite.

Who says the people who play games on iOS want those types of games? There are many genres that DO work with the controls. I want all forms of gaming to thrive and do well and everyone to be able to enjoy what type of gaming they want. You would rather see iOS destroyed because companies actually want to make money instead of go bankrupt to appease you. There are games like Ghost Trick and Phoenix Wright that are wonderful to play with that convenience. There is also shit like the TWEWY port which I completely don't support.
 
Sony should double down in their mobile efforts and just scrap the Vita at this point as they are just throwing money into a pit. What I don't understand is why they seem to be going full force with the tv division when it seems to be the biggest loser. I know we all want the best games here but I have to smh everytime someone asks Sony to put out a 500-600 dollar beast console just to please them not realizing how terrible that idea is. I see people here talking about how Sony is "pro gamer" when that is the exact problem they are in right now. People saying Sony is the only "pro gamer" company around fails to realize that the type of gamer they are is not the only type of gamer in the market and that's exactly why Vita is failing. It was made specifically for the Gaf type gamer ignoring all market trends and data.

WTF? I've never seen anyone around here ask for that. The gaming community in general is pretty apprehensive about the idea of another $500/$600 console, and I remember pretty well the "pro gamers" you're talking about said "OK, that's just over the line now".
 

spwolf

Member
Is Hiroko Tabuci correct in his Wall Street Journal article about Sony’s engineers having too much power and control over Sony’s product lines? He is correct, but Sony’s executives should always take more accountability/responsibility for the company’s actions more than anyone else. When Howard Stringer was in office, all he did was blame earthquakes and the fall of the yen/dollar/euro, instead of admitting that Sony released products that weren’t major hits. The fact remains that Sony’s executives make a lot of excuses, they poorly communicate with their engineers, and this causes disorganization and confusion within the company. A great example would be when Sony’s PlayStation network was hacked by Lulzsec. Sony was more concerned about hiring lawyers and getting their insurance company to pay for the damage, than getting their engineers to fix the problem in a swift and efficient manner.

Because there is a lack of communication between the branches of Sony, Sony’s product line has no real identity right now. Every division and branch is made up of people who are doing their own thing, and not caring about what the rest of Sony is doing. That’s why the only thing that comes to a consumer’s mind about Sony products right now is, “Oh yeah. That’s the company that makes stuff I can’t afford unless I get multiple jobs. They put out $600 game consoles at launch, and $40,000 4K resolution televisions“. Sony is stuck. Everyone expects amazing quality and technological leaps from Sony products, but most people don’t have the money to buy them due to economical reasons. If Sony changed their strategy and started manufacturing cheap products, it would go against everything that the Sony brand stands for.

Sony is an example of a company that has become so large that they’ve lost focus of their main priorities. This is also a company that thinks they can afford tons of failures as long as they have a few successes along the way. But at what cost? At what cost can you keep launching products that don’t make a profit until the third or fourth year that it is released? At what cost can you keep launching failed proprietary formats like the UMD, or failed peripherals like PlayStation Move?

Sony releases brilliant products time from time. I am especially a big fan of their PlayStation brand. But Sony is not the Sony of the 90′s. Sony is not today’s Apple. Sony is not today’s Samsung. Sony is not today’s Microsoft.

It won’t be easy for Sony to return to their glory days after ten years of negative trends.


This is pretty poorly written... Not only that, but it says Sony's 4K TV will cost $40k and lists article from Aussiegamer, which is another poorly written article - it has been known for a week that its price is $25k, and it has nothing to do with Sony losses at all. Whole article is soup of badly arranged refferences, most of which should have been summed up into one paragraph, instead of spending several pages on liabilities, ROE/ROA, stock performance, earnings and market cap - guess what Sherlock, they are all tied together.

Or she is showing Capital structure charts claiming how "debt is raising" when if you read all of those 3 numbers on the chart, you would realize they are reducing their equity, not raising their debts (which according to the chart are actually down from 2009).

I mean whole general idea and theme is good, but execution is pretty poor. Bloomberg, Businessweek and WSJ had a lot better article about the same subject. It seems like the author didnt understand a lot of what she was writing, basically reads like some forum post with refferences.
 
WTF? I've never seen anyone around here ask for that. The gaming community in general is pretty apprehensive about the idea of another $500/$600 console, and I remember pretty well the "pro gamers" you're talking about said "OK, that's just over the line now".

Oh I have definitely seen people asking Sony to release something to compete with high end PCs and there have definitely been people saying release it and they will pay whatever price they have to if it's high end enough. Of course, I don't mean to generalize everyone who wants a reasonably next gen spec PS4 as wanting a 500 dollar console because there is certainly an in between but I have seen it.
 
Oh I have definitely seen people asking Sony to release something to compete with high end PCs and there have definitely been people saying release it and they will pay whatever price they have to if it's high end enough. Of course, I don't mean to generalize everyone who wants a reasonably next gen spec PS4 as wanting a 500 dollar console because there is certainly an in between but I have seen it.

Your previous post went off on a rant like that as if it were something that people ask for on a daily basis, with Sony listening to them and falling right off the earnings cliff. Not only are the folks you describe part of an extreme minority, I'm failing to see any compelling reason or evidence to lead me to believe the PS3 and Vita were released exclusively for the type of GAF gamer you went off about.
 

vareon

Member
No? I only ask for beefier systems each new generation, I don't need countless input gimmicks and other useless features on systems. I don't even like how many crap entertainment apps 360/ps3 has added in the last few years.

And ios is part of what I was talking about with negative "innovations" because it's hugely dumbed down from what we've had. So bad that it can't play the majority of traditional genres. That becoming so popular is not doing the fans of this industry any favors.

Sony can't sustain itself if all it does is to please people like you. What do you think they should do?
 

mujun

Member
No? I only ask for beefier systems each new generation, I don't need countless input gimmicks and other useless features on systems. I don't even like how many crap entertainment apps 360/ps3 has added in the last few years.

And ios is part of what I was talking about with negative "innovations" because it's hugely dumbed down from what we've had. So bad that it can't play the majority of traditional genres. That becoming so popular is not doing the fans of this industry any favors.

What games are fans of the industry missing out on? Also what are the "traditional" genres?
 

Derrick01

Banned
Sony can't sustain itself if all it does is to please people like you. What do you think they should do?

They figured out how to please both crowds with PS2 but a lot has changed since then. Their name and brand means jack shit in America now. If I knew the answer to that question I'd be running things at Sony.

Like someone said earlier in the thread all I can do is just support them when something good comes out. They're no good to me dead but if they go full casual like so many others have then they're also no good to me. So to people asking me which would you rather have I can honestly say out of those 2 choices I don't care because the result is the same.
 

Oersted

Member
all these "sony cares only about core gamers"-statements, makes me wonder if i lived in a parallel universe where they released umds for on the go, move, singstar, eyetoy etc. and said rumble pak is a thing of the past.
lets go for they don´t know what they should do anymore, thats why vita looks like a hybrid but currently failing in every segment.
 
They figured out how to please both crowds with PS2 but a lot has changed since then. Their name and brand means jack shit in America now. If I knew the answer to that question I'd be running things at Sony.

Like someone said earlier in the thread all I can do is just support them when something good comes out. They're no good to me dead but if they go full casual like so many others have then they're also no good to me. So to people asking me which would you rather have I can honestly say out of those 2 choices I don't care because the result is the same.

Who has gone "full casual"? I don't even know what your definition of casual is right now...
 
Honestly, I'm not even sure how Sony can be considered "pro gamer". Vita has those expensive memory cards and PS3 added a needlessly expensive blu-ray drive. The only company I think I could make a remotely coherent "pro gamer" argument is Nintendo.

yeah region locking handhelds is such a pro gamer stance
 

plufim

Member
Could Sony conceivably save themselves by splitting into different companies? Sony TV would obviously go under in less than a week, but if Sony Games were given the chance to sink or swim under their own power, could that work for them?
 
Could Sony conceivably save themselves by splitting into different companies? Sony TV would obviously go under in less than a week, but if Sony Games were given the chance to sink or swim under their own power, could that work for them?

Where would they get the money for R&D for new systems? Nintendo is only able to support themselves due to the massive sales of their software giants like Mario and Pokemon. If you mean could they function as a 3rd party I'm sure they could. God of War, Uncharted, and Gran Turismo all do great and they have some good niche hits.
 

plufim

Member
They get their cut from game sales, for starters. I always understood that the gaming division was profitable, was I misinformed?

If I were to make a prediction though, I'd say Sony is going to double down for the PS4 and cram everything they can into it. Since the Engineers apparently can do whatever they want. Hell, wouldn't surprise me if we see the xbox 720 halfway in power between WiiU and PS4, making a really weird generation with no comparable systems.
 

vareon

Member
They figured out how to please both crowds with PS2 but a lot has changed since then. Their name and brand means jack shit in America now. If I knew the answer to that question I'd be running things at Sony.

Like someone said earlier in the thread all I can do is just support them when something good comes out. They're no good to me dead but if they go full casual like so many others have then they're also no good to me. So to people asking me which would you rather have I can honestly say out of those 2 choices I don't care because the result is the same.

Curious, what do you think their "full casual" move is? AFAIK even all the wonderbook spotlight, I don't see them lessening their effort in traditional games.
 

spwolf

Member
They get their cut from game sales, for starters. I always understood that the gaming division was profitable, was I misinformed?

If I were to make a prediction though, I'd say Sony is going to double down for the PS4 and cram everything they can into it. Since the Engineers apparently can do whatever they want. Hell, wouldn't surprise me if we see the xbox 720 halfway in power between WiiU and PS4, making a really weird generation with no comparable systems.

Sony has one of the highest R&D budgets in the world and a lot of it probably goes towards gaming as they are now focusing on it as one of their "pillars".
 

Acheron

Banned
They get their cut from game sales, for starters. I always understood that the gaming division was profitable, was I misinformed?

If I were to make a prediction though, I'd say Sony is going to double down for the PS4 and cram everything they can into it. Since the Engineers apparently can do whatever they want. Hell, wouldn't surprise me if we see the xbox 720 halfway in power between WiiU and PS4, making a really weird generation with no comparable systems.

It's profitable now, but net negative for the generation. If Sony seriously tries for the power angle again (for the fourth time) after its been generally unsuccessful for the PSP, PS3 and PS Vita they deserve to go out of business. If Kaz is dumb enough to subsidize consoles when his company is facing insolvency he ought not even be allowed to run a Dairy Queen.
 

patsu

Member
This is pretty poorly written... Not only that, but it says Sony's 4K TV will cost $40k and lists article from Aussiegamer, which is another poorly written article - it has been known for a week that its price is $25k, and it has nothing to do with Sony losses at all. Whole article is soup of badly arranged refferences, most of which should have been summed up into one paragraph, instead of spending several pages on liabilities, ROE/ROA, stock performance, earnings and market cap - guess what Sherlock, they are all tied together.

Or she is showing Capital structure charts claiming how "debt is raising" when if you read all of those 3 numbers on the chart, you would realize they are reducing their equity, not raising their debts (which according to the chart are actually down from 2009).

I mean whole general idea and theme is good, but execution is pretty poor. Bloomberg, Businessweek and WSJ had a lot better article about the same subject. It seems like the author didnt understand a lot of what she was writing, basically reads like some forum post with refferences.

The article is likely used as the beginning of a marketing campaign (likely for WiiU). For a large scale launch, it is not uncommon for large corporations to seed the target audience with PR support first. Once the audience is prepped, the actual launch will follow. Is Nintendo going to organize a press conference soon ? The airline and diamond industries are known to do this when they enter a new market, or when they want to cultivate a new behavior.

If it's an objective investigative report, it won't use an ugly picture of Kaz Hirai in the article. The editorials are sensitive to PR reaction like this (because they get advertisements and sponsorships from companies), and will replace it with standard PR photos (or drawings) of these executives to play safe. OTOH, for political campaign ads, you'll often find messy, inconfident facial expressions of the opposing party to mess with their image.

Who is Emily Rogers anyway ? ^_^

The articles put together Sony's bad news over the last 10 years, but her interpretation may not be completely true or objective. It's very one sided (e.g., Announcing a $25K or $40K TV for the riches doesn't mean anything ! My friends sell $100K speakers per unit, doesn't mean it's a bad thing. It's just not meant for us~). It looks like the truth is somewhere in between.

I love the article though. Sony, this is how you spend your marketing $$$. Not on useless, brand advertising, or replaying game ads. Go through the entire value proposition, and then spend on the full shebang; from PR or counter-PR like this all the way to pricing for mainstream. The Xperia division seems to be ramping up nicely with the latest fast and waterproof cellphones/tablets, plus Google announcing experimental Xperia-Nexus support. Ride on that.

As for engineering dictating the company's future, it's not entirely incorrect. The analysts are often wrong themselves also. Many top management were engineers by training (e.g., Steve Jobs). It means your top engineers are not sensitive/schooled to be product marketing gurus at all. Not every engineers can be. Find those who can cross between marketing and engineering, and use them wisely.
 
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