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[Oersted]

Is there a reason then they have been so late to everything in other sectors?



PSP made them money.

but not shitload ds-money. and ds didn´t achieve this with being a graphical powerhouse.

 

[plufim]

It's profitable now, but net negative for the generation. If Sony seriously tries for the power angle again (for the fourth time) after its been generally unsuccessful for the PSP, PS3 and PS Vita they deserve to go out of business. If Kaz is dumb enough to subsidize consoles when his company is facing insolvency he ought not even be allowed to run a Dairy Queen.

I can't disagree. And I am certain they'll do it anyway.

 

[Acheron]

PSP made them money.

A business making money is the lowest you can set the bar without it being total failure. PSP was not nearly as successful as its rival, it's power focus was detrimental not helpful, it's foray into mobile media was a failure. The device is successful only in comparison to its two immediate successors on that list.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Eh, the power angle has been successful for plenty of consoles, ps3 being the only real exception. Handhelds don't count, as the market probably just isn't there for them.

No reason for Sony to abandon that strategy with ps4. Ps3 was just a cluster when it comes to engineering and it cost them dearly, 360 seemed to be tightly designed and did well.

 

[patsu]

A business making money is the lowest you can set the bar without it being total failure. PSP was not nearly as successful as its rival, it's power focus was detrimental not helpful, it's foray into mobile media was a failure. The device is successful only in comparison to its two immediate successors on that list.

I was told the PSP is also succesful compared to all the other earlier Nintendo handheld competition. It was probably designed to compete with GBA, but Nintendo succeeded GBA with DS anyway.

Power doesn't mean "no good" (unless you're Nintendo). All the electronics folks like Apple keep pushing the tech specs. More power can make development easier, not necessarily harder or more expensive. The main problem is that the game development workflow is too primitive. If the industry pour in MORE money to innovate, it should also simplify game development at the same time.

If the industry runs away from technology or power, then they WILL be stuck in the mud forever.

 

[plufim]

Eh, the power angle has been successful for plenty of consoles, ps3 being the only real exception. Handhelds don't count, as the market probably just isn't there for them.

No reason for Sony to abandon that strategy with ps4. Ps3 was just a cluster when it comes to engineering and it cost them dearly, 360 seemed to be tightly designed and did well.

PS2 was the weakest of it's generation though, and won handily.

 

[Acheron]

Eh, the power angle has been successful for plenty of consoles, ps3 being the only real exception. Handhelds don't count, as the market probably just isn't there for them.

No reason for Sony to abandon that strategy with ps4. Ps3 was just a cluster when it comes to engineering and it cost them dearly, 360 seemed to be tightly designed and did well.

PS1 and PS2 were weaker than their main rivals.

The difference being gaming is no longer a hobbyist market.

 

[patsu]

PS2 was the weakest of it's generation though, and won handily.

That's when the industry was dominated by Asian manufacturers. In the worldwide scene, the players may have to update their rule book. Apple and Microsoft certainly won't regress or stay stagnant in hardware specs. Neither will Sony.

The world now and tomorrow will be different from last decade. What happened to PS2 may or may not repeat itself.

 

[metalslimer]

I was told the PSP is also succesful compared to all the other earlier Nintendo handheld competition. It was probably designed to compete with GBA, but Nintendo succeeded GBA with DS anyway.

Power doesn't mean "no good" (unless you're Nintendo). All the electronics folks like Apple keep pushing the tech specs. More power can make development easier, not necessarily harder or more expensive. The main problem is that the game development workflow is too primitive. If the industry pour in MORE money to innovate, it should simplify game development at the same time.

If the industry runs away from technology or power, then they WILL be stuck in the mud forever.

PSP is a very interesting system to look at in terms of success. It is one of the best selling dedicated systems of all time and has outsold every console outside of the Wii PS1 and PS2. However, the software ecosystem in the west collapsed very hard halfway through its lifespan and it left a very poor lead in for its successor with its perception and media format which had to be dropped.

That's when the industry was dominated by Asian manufacturers. In the worldwide scene, the players may have to update their rule book. Apple and Microsoft certainly won't regress or stay stagnant in hardware specs. Neither will Sony.

The videogame market cannot be compared to the Apple's current target market that updates itself every year. You cannot impress for long with a dedicated system because there will always be an update around the corner that makes your tech seem ancient. This is the main difference between the PSP years and now. Sony could impress people with how powerful the PSP was and no mobile device that small was more powerful for years. Meanwhile Vita is just another OLED device whose specs will be passed soon enough. You can't really go for the tech enthusiast as fast as everything is going nowadays. Of course there a large gap between Nintendo type upgrades and going all in.

 

[plufim]

That's when the industry was dominated by Asian manufacturers. In the worldwide scene, the players may have to update their rule book. Apple and Microsoft certainly won't regress or stay stagnant in hardware specs. Neither will Sony.

The world now and tomorrow will be different from last decade. What happened to PS2 may or may not repeat itself.

But the argument was power=success. When was that true for Sony?

 

[patsu]

PSP is a very interesting system to look at in terms of success. It is one of the best selling dedicated systems of all time and has outsold every console outside of the Wii PS1 and PS2. However, the software ecosystem in the west collapsed very hard halfway through its lifespan and it left a very poor lead in for its successor with its perception and media format which had to be dropped.

PSP, PS2, PS3 and Vita all have very unique stories. ^_^

The freaking PSP is also plagued with piracy due to Sony's negligence (They were tied up trying to save PS3).

The problem is Sony doesn't have an OS that stretches across generation gap. That's why every generation is a new start. In the PS3 - Vita era, it looks like they have finally put in some software platform to boot. We'll have to see how nimble they are.

The videogame market cannot be compared to the Apple's current target market that updates itself every year. You cannot impress for long with a dedicated system because there will always be an update around the corner that makes your tech seem ancient. This is the main difference between the PSP years and now. Sony could impress people with how powerful the PSP was and no mobile device that small was more powerful for years. Meanwhile Vita is just another OLED device whose specs will be passed soon enough.

In a sense, yes. But if the iOS/Android has far greater penetration, the perception may be turned against the "stagnant platform" guys. Basically, Sony and Nintendo can't assume they are protected. The mass market consumers do not really care. Some of the core gamers may care though.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

Well, at least Kaz couldn't be worse than Howard Stringer... right?

Well the Vita was conceived, designed and launched under his watch

 

[metalslimer]

In a sense, yes. But if the iOS/Android has far greater penetration, the perception may be turned against the "stagnant platform" guys. Basically, Sony and Nintendo can't assume they are protected. The mass market consumers do not really care. Some of the core gamers may care though.

Well we may just be coming to the time where the traditional console model is not really good enough and this "stagnant" mentality might be why we see the huge drops sales wise we are seeing. Of course Nintendo and Sony aren't strangers to redesigns.

Vita is a fine piece of hardware merely not marketed right / lack of killer apps / ios.

So it's a nice piece of hardware....that shouldn't have been made in the current market? Because that's not much better.

 

[CadetMahoney]

Well, at least Kaz couldn't be worse than Howard Stringer... right?

Well the Vita was conceived, designed and launched under his watch

Vita is a fine piece of hardware merely not marketed right / lack of killer apps / ios. But I think the price is the biggest factor.

 

[GavinGT]

The most powerful console has hardly ever been the most successful.

 

[patsu]

Well the Vita was conceived, designed and launched under his watch

The Playstation Mobile effort was also launched at the same time. Kaz Hirai is more a network platform believer. Sony Entertainment Network, PSN, Gaikai, PS Mobile, cheaper PS3 were and will continue to appeal to him. Vita is just one device in his grand plan.

Unlike Nintendo, where Iwata himself lead the charge for 3DS. Vita is led by a mid-top-level manager (John Koeller ? Might have bastardized his name. ^_^), not the top dog. They will have to adjust Vita's strategy along the way, and yes they do have the resources to back Vita; but I am curious about Sony's internal split between Vita vs other initiatives.

That WonderBook idea sounds very EU though. So I'm guessing WonderBook is not Kaz's baby.

 

[Mileena]

The most powerful console has hardly ever been the most successful.

But it's usually the best

 

[see5harp]

But it's usually the best

That isn't even close to being true.

 

[nyong]

Sony is such a baffling company to me. They put out a lot of great products (except maybe my POS Playstation 3D TV...) but their management never ceases to piss me off when they open their mouths at PR events.

I actively want them to fail they way they talk to me, but I also enjoy using so many of their products...

 

[A Twisty Fluken]

But it's usually the best

I find derailing an objective comparison with "but my favorite is this" is often helpful and productive.

My favorite handheld was the Game Boy. Now what?

 

[Mileena]

That isn't even close to being true.

I respect your opinion

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

PS2 was the weakest of it's generation though, and won handily.

For the time it was still very powerful and Sony designed it for the enthusiast market. Ps4 doesn't need to be the most powerful console, but it certainly needs to be a substantial leap from the wii u and ps3. They can't pull a Nintendo.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

Vita is a fine piece of hardware merely not marketed right / lack of killer apps / ios. But I think the price is the biggest factor.

Oh. Is that all?

 

[Bgamer90]

But it's usually the best

Eh... when?

Looking at past gens, my favorite systems have never been the most powerful.

 

[BigDug13]

PS2 was the weakest of it's generation though, and won handily.

Different time/different place. Nintendo's mindshare had slipped, Sony was riding super high as the definitive winner of the PS1 gen, Microsoft came out of left field late in the game and nobody really knew WTF an Xbox was or why they should buy one over a PS2.

Now, Sony is the one with the lost mindshare. They're competing with a graphical powerhouse who's starting to dominate the entertainment in your livingroom from a company with still deep pockets. Nintendo gained huge mindshare this gen and looks to provide a reasonably priced system for the next gen, even though it will most likely be the weakest.

If Xbox comes out with a superior system for a competitive price because they can afford to, things will get really interesting. If they can support 360 games and XBLA games, it will be a crushing blow since Sony and their Cell won't really be emulated at all on PS4.

You'll end up with Sony having the only system that can't play previous gen games, in a world where people might not be able to drop the cash for the next system without trading in their old one.

 

[Bgamer90]

You'll end up with Sony having the only system that can't play previous gen games, in a world where people might not be able to drop the cash for the next system without trading in their old one.

This is a big reason why backwards compatibility is important for a console's success early on IMO.

 

[Soyongdori]

Samsung will start making consoles. They should team up with whatever's left of SEGA and build Dreamcast 2.

Samsung won't enter the console gaming industry scene unless they partner up with several well known game companies for their console. There is a reason why Samsung has been reluctant to enter the gaming scene, despite the fact that they have technology and capital to easily to make their own console.

 

[Neo 007]

I haven't had a reason to turn on my PS3 for at least a month now....first time this has happened since I have owned one from launch.

 

[wazoo]

Samsung won't enter the console gaming industry scene unless they partner up with several well known game companies for their console. There is a reason why Samsung has been reluctant to enter the gaming scene, despite the fact that they have technology and capital to easily to make their own console.

They almost released a 3DO unit.

 

[FyreWulff]

As a gamer it's really sad to see them fall so hard because they still have the most pro-gamer thinking of the 3 console makers. While MS and Nintendo trip over each other to see who can sell out to casuals harder, Sony always thought they could appeal to both and they used to succeed with that.

The PS2 was the prime console for casual gamers.

 

[encephalon]

A business making money is the lowest you can set the bar without it being total failure. PSP was not nearly as successful as its rival, it's power focus was detrimental not helpful, it's foray into mobile media was a failure. The device is successful only in comparison to its two immediate successors on that list.

If it didn't have its power to set itself apart from its competition, whose to say it would have the success it did?

 

[Oersted]

PSP is a very interesting system to look at in terms of success. It is one of the best selling dedicated systems of all time and has outsold every console outside of the Wii PS1 and PS2. However, the software ecosystem in the west collapsed very hard halfway through its lifespan and it left a very poor lead in for its successor with its perception and media format which had to be dropped.



The videogame market cannot be compared to the Apple's current target market that updates itself every year. You cannot impress for long with a dedicated system because there will always be an update around the corner that makes your tech seem ancient. This is the main difference between the PSP years and now. Sony could impress people with how powerful the PSP was and no mobile device that small was more powerful for years. Meanwhile Vita is just another OLED device whose specs will be passed soon enough. You can't really go for the tech enthusiast as fast as everything is going nowadays. Of course there a large gap between Nintendo type upgrades and going all in.

Yeah besides PlayStation 2, Nintendo DS, Game Boy and Game Boy Color,PlayStation ,
Nintendo Wii , Game Boy Advance and Xbox 360 and catching up.

 

[pixelbox]

Too high to get over, too low to get under, they're stuck in the middle. We all knew this though. And we all know that in this world you need significantly more energy to turn around negative actions. It took 10 years to get into this, it'll take 15 to get out. And after going over Kaz's plans, he has the rigbt idea. That idea coupled with reducing product lines and more advertisement will turn it around slowly. Remember, Sony has a big ass.

 

[pixelbox]

Sony sent me a servey asking about the Ipad alot...Wonder why.

 

[Triple U]

2011

360 14.9 Million units
PS3 14.1 Million units

Those are he shipment figures for the 2011 calender year. When people say the PS3 outsold the 360 the last two years they are talking about fiscal years.

Source is Sony and Microsoft. Those are official shipment figures.

All this is incorrect.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=483179&highlight=microsoft+fiscal+year+11
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=473601&highlight=microsoft+fiscal+year+11

PS3 outsold the 360 in both MS's and Sony's FY for the past 2 years. FY is the only way companies give numbers, they rarely ever give "calendar year" numbers. Those numbers are likely made up and/or just plain inaccurate....

 

[Satchel]

Eh, the power angle has been successful for plenty of consoles, ps3 being the only real exception.

What?

NES was weaker than the MS
SNES was barely more powerful than the Megadrive and in many areas was "weaker"
PS1 was at best 2nd power wise
PS2 was behind the Cube and Xbox
Wii is clearly behind the PS360 combo

So no, no exceptions there. The "strongest" console rarely if ever wins.

Sony need to stop pandering to fanboys and worry more about staying afloat.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

SNES was barely more powerful than the Megadrive and in many areas was "weaker"

And there was that little thing called Neo-Geo.

 

[Satchel]

And there was that little thing called Neo-Geo.

True.

 

[Oersted]

What?

NES was weaker than the MS
SNES was barely more powerful than the Megadrive and in many areas was "weaker"
PS1 was at best 2nd power wise
PS2 was behind the Cube and Xbox
Wii is clearly behind the PS360 combo
Game Boy was weaker than almost every competitor on the market.
DS was weaker than PSP.

So no, no exceptions there. The "strongest" console rarely if ever wins.

Sony need to stop pandering to fanboys and worry more about staying afloat.

.

 

[apana]

The article is likely used as the beginning of a marketing campaign (likely for WiiU). For a large scale launch, it is not uncommon for large corporations to seed the target audience with PR support first. Once the audience is prepped, the actual launch will follow. Is Nintendo going to organize a press conference soon ? The airline and diamond industries are known to do this when they enter a new market, or when they want to cultivate a new behavior.

If it's an objective investigative report, it won't use an ugly picture of Kaz Hirai in the article. The editorials are sensitive to PR reaction like this (because they get advertisements and sponsorships from companies), and will replace it with standard PR photos (or drawings) of these executives to play safe. OTOH, for political campaign ads, you'll often find messy, inconfident facial expressions of the opposing party to mess with their image.

Who is Emily Rogers anyway ? ^_^

The articles put together Sony's bad news over the last 10 years, but her interpretation may not be completely true or objective. It's very one sided (e.g., Announcing a $25K or $40K TV for the riches doesn't mean anything ! My friends sell $100K speakers per unit, doesn't mean it's a bad thing. It's just not meant for us~). It looks like the truth is somewhere in between.

I love the article though. Sony, this is how you spend your marketing $$$. Not on useless, brand advertising, or replaying game ads. Go through the entire value proposition, and then spend on the full shebang; from PR or counter-PR like this all the way to pricing for mainstream. The Xperia division seems to be ramping up nicely with the latest fast and waterproof cellphones/tablets, plus Google announcing experimental Xperia-Nexus support. Ride on that.

As for engineering dictating the company's future, it's not entirely incorrect. The analysts are often wrong themselves also. Many top management were engineers by training (e.g., Steve Jobs). It means your top engineers are not sensitive/schooled to be product marketing gurus at all. Not every engineers can be. Find those who can cross between marketing and engineering, and use them wisely.

Uhhh.....wat?

I don't really see how this helps the Wii U.

 

[Canis lupus]

Samsung won't enter the console gaming industry scene unless they partner up with several well known game companies for their console. There is a reason why Samsung has been reluctant to enter the gaming scene, despite the fact that they have technology and capital to easily to make their own console.

I'd really like to see a 4th console next gen, doesn't matter if its Apple, Samsung or Valve.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

I'd really like to see a 4th console next gen, doesn't matter if its Apple, Samsung or Valve.

I'd love to see less of them.

 

[scytheavatar]

Samsung or Apple entering the video game console market would be like amazon.com trying to set up brick and mortar bookshops. Why the heck would they want to do that when they are trying to kill the video game consoles?

 

[Satchel]

I'd love to see less of them.

I'd be happy with only one. Collaborated by the big 3

Dream come true

 

[Celine]

I was told the PSP is also succesful compared to all the other earlier Nintendo handheld competition.

It's true however Nintendo handheld competitors excluding PSP is a very low measurement.
Top 3 selling handheld not manufactured by Nintendo or Sony:

1) Sega Game Gear 8.65M
2) Bandai WonderSwan 3.32M*
3) Nokia N-Gage 2+M

* WonderSwan was released only in the japanese market.

 

[NemesisPrime]

Shipped to retailers = money in Sonys bank.

No, doesn't work like that. Many big retailers can return products for full refunds.

 

[patapuf]

Samsung or Apple entering the video game console market would be like amazon.com trying to set up brick and mortar bookshops. Why the heck would they want to do that when they are trying to kill the video game consoles?

I don't see Apple or Samsung trying to kill consoles. They just make phones and PC's that happen to play games. Neither has made any indication that they are interested in gaming beyond that.

However even if one of the big three drops out i don't see anyone stepping in to fill the void. It's not exactly a hugely profitable market. And this is proably the last gen of dedicated gaming consoles anyway

 

[Triple U]

Im pretty sure samsung is involved with all three consoles in some form. People seem to forget that they are one of the largest memory producers around, with contracts around the industry. I don't see what they could gain from the console market.

 

[Canis lupus]

No, doesn't work like that. Many big retailers can return products for full refunds.

But, how often does that happen? Even when a newer version of a product comes out, the old versions get discounts until they're sold out.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

It's very hard to me to argue against a company culture in which engineers are more important than accountants.

That said, cooperation and coordination are paramount in any business, and the bottom line is you can't ignore your bottom line. Reading the article only makes me wonder if Sony is currently just full of the wrong people, and not necessarily the wrong ideas.