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Android, iOS, WP8 phone debate thread

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been pudging around both iOS 6 on ip5 and WP7 Lumia 900 for several hours at a ATT store today.

Just to get a feel for the "Other side of this equation"
No, no... did you setup the Lumia 900 in the store with your data? I very much doubt you got a feel for WP7 in a few hours at the AT&T store.

:/

This is a challenge for WP7 fans to explain. Jon Bell does a good job here: Make it relevant
(the 'relevant' part starts at 11:05 but I strongly encourage you to watch the 10 minutes of setup before that)

- no real notifications system/bar besides the live tiles, while unified in there UI still feel like bastardized widgets

Tiles are not bastardized widgets.
Tiles are not widgets at all to be honest:
wikipedia said:
A desktop widget is a specialized GUI widget intended to run on a computer desktop for computer users to control simple utility functions such as clocks, messaging services, and calendars. A mobile widget is the comparable equivalent for mobile devices (i.e. smart phones).
Widgets are defined by their interactivity. Tiles can't be interacted with at all.
Tiles are completely focused on the display of information. Well... many mobile widgets are also solely about data visualization; you could call them 'bastardized' tiles :P
Microsoft has enabled Tiles to be created by the user with almost any unit of information from inside an app. That's an incredibly powerful tool and something that Android's widgets system doesn't really offer.
 
Wow, those 920 shots are simply incredible!

I've just gone to a Galaxy S3 from a series of iPhones. Very happy with my decision, though it's disappointing to see the camera performs so badly when compared to the iPhone 5. For the most part I am really happy with it though. Still have an iPad to get my iOS fix!

Whilst I do miss the amazing build quality and app store of the iPhone, it was just simply too restrictive for me, and the fact my S3 cost almost exactly half what an iPhone 5 would cost it's a no brainer. Will be looking at W8 and the Nokia phones a lot more closely from now on though.
 
Wow, those 920 shots are simply incredible!

I've just gone to a Galaxy S3 from a series of iPhones. Very happy with my decision, though it's disappointing to see the camera performs so badly when compared to the iPhone 5.
It doesn't, though. I've gone into this in detail in the previous page. The test photos don't show that the iPhone's camera is any better than the Galaxy S3's when you consider that the Samsung shots were taken at ISO800 and the iPhone 5 at ISO 3,200.
 
It doesn't, though. I've gone into this in detail in the previous page. The test photos don't show that the iPhone's camera is any better than the Galaxy S3's when you consider that the Samsung shots were taken at ISO800 and the iPhone 5 at ISO 3,200.

When it comes to smartphone cameras, all that matters is what happens when you press the button (/tap the screen), it's not about how good you can get the shot if you play around with the settings, it's always been that way and it's the right way to judge them because that's exactly how we all use them.


For the record this is the exact reason the cameras on the Lumia 800 & 900 are god awful, yes you have all the white balance and ISO settings right there to play around with, but if I just press the button, which is all I want to have to do, shitty results almost every time.
 
When it comes to smartphone cameras, all that matters is what happens when you press the button (/tap the screen), it's not about how good you can get the shot if you play around with the settings, it's always been that way and it's the right way to judge them because that's exactly how we all use them.


For the record this is the exact reason the cameras on the Lumia 800 & 900 are god awful, yes you have all the white balance and ISO settings right there to play around with, but if I just press the button, which is all I want to have to do, shitty results almost every time.
I disagree. A summary of why Engadget's test is horrible.

Test circumstances were in favor of Lumia 920:
From the start, the test was set up in favor of Nokia's smartphone. As we can see in the text body, the tester “[...]held each device perfectly still[...]“. Holding the device perfectly still or mounting it to a tripod is, in this test, something that will reflect positively only on Nokia's results.

It can only positively affect Nokia's results because the other manufacturers don't change the shutter speed at all when in low light situations as proven by the EXIF data the original files come with.
The Samsung Galaxy S3's and the iPhones shutter speeds don't change compared to a daylight shot (1/17th of a sec & 1/15th of a sec). Nokia changes its shutter speed to 1/3rd of a second. The difference between 1/17th of a sec and 1/3rd of a second is huge.

ISO Values:
The iPhone picture is much brighter than the S3 picture, and that's most likely caused by the fact that the iPhone 5 jacks up the ISO Value all the way to 3,200. The Galaxy S3 is taking pictures at ISO 800 and it cannot go any higher than that, at least not without changing to “night mode”. Now I haven't really tried the night mode on the S3 but I'd assume that it does either change the shutter speed (to catch light for a longer time) or the ISO Value or a combination of higher ISO and longer exposure.

Why not using “night mode” is stupid:
Night mode would change how the camera operates and while it's nice to have a smartphone that automatically adjusts to the low light situation, the fact that the S3 doesn't do that has nothing to do with the quality of the sensor and doesn't – at all – show what the camera is capable of in low light situations. Having the smartphone automatically choose the setting has its upsides but also comes with negative side effects – it's the same with any other camera.

Engadged claimed fairness by saying “Well, we used auto-mode on all the devices” and while that seems fair, it really isn't.

So we know how Nokia achieves that kind of brightness but with that, we also know of at least one weakness the camera has. If Nokia doesn't set the ISO Value higher (which it doesn't seem to do in auto-mode) and relies completely on leaving the shutter open for a longer time, then any picture with humans will be blurry unless the objects don't move at all. 1/3rd of a second is a long time when taking pictures – of course, this is not important when you take a photo of something that doesn't really move.

In a situation like that, the iPhone would work way better because it doesn't rely on leaving the shutter open for a long time. It relies on high ISO, which does negatively affect the pictures quality but will mean that you at least don't have to deal with blurry images. The best image stabilization doesn't help you in any way if the thing you're taking a photo of is moving or not standing completely still.

So if all that's important is to press the button then get ready for getting blurry pictures on Nokia's device because their automatic low light setting is only good for things that don't move.
 
So we know how Nokia achieves that kind of brightness but with that, we also know of at least one weakness the camera has. If Nokia doesn't set the ISO Value higher (which it doesn't seem to do in auto-mode) and relies completely on leaving the shutter open for a longer time, then any picture with humans will be blurry unless the objects don't move at all. 1/3rd of a second is a long time when taking pictures – of course, this is not important when you take a photo of something that doesn't really move.

Which is exactly where Nokia's new stabilisation technology comes into play.

Which is also why using a tripod in this test is NOT set up to favor Nokia's technology.
 
I don't think the comparison tries to show which phone has the best camera overall but which one is better at pointing and shooting.

In any case, they could have tried to fiddle around with the options and another set of people would be complaining about how most users won't be toying around with the settings, so getting worked over this is kind of silly. We won't have to wait for too long before the first full tests arrive.
 
Image stabilization tech doesn't come into play if you're using a tripod.

The flipside of that is assuming Nokia is silly enough to set a shutter speed that the camera cannot handle in most situations by default.

However you spin it, the camera tech as a package simply excels at low light situations far exceeding the competition.
 
Which is exactly where Nokia's new stabilisation technology comes into play.

Which is also why using a tripod in this test is NOT set up to favor Nokia's technology.
I'm not talking about hand movement, I'm talking about bigger movement of the objects you're taking a picture of.

Engadget could and should have noticed that holding the camera perfectly still doesn't do anything for the devices if the shutter speed remains unchanged. Since the only camera that changed the shutter speed is the Nokia one, it's the only phone that can benefit from setting it up that way. Not saying that the Nokia wouldn't have taken good pictures without that, but I'm saying that it suggests that movement might have been a problem so, which is not the case. Only for Nokia's camera could hand movement have been a problem at all. Again: I'm not saying that it would have taken crappy pictures but the tripod/holding the phone still can only benefit Nokia and does nothing for the other phones.

The line is suggesting that holding it perfectly still is something all phones benefit from, and that's not true.

From what we know, the Lumia 920 will excel at taking pictures of non-moving objects but if it doesn't jack up the ISO and only works with longer exposure, then images of moving things will be blurry.
 
When it comes to smartphone cameras, all that matters is what happens when you press the button (/tap the screen), it's not about how good you can get the shot if you play around with the settings, it's always been that way and it's the right way to judge them because that's exactly how we all use them.

By that logic, then the test is completely pointless because there's no instance where you can snap a photo while perfectly motionless.

If the test is to show off the camera tech, then everything should've been optimized for the best photo. To show off the best real-life use of a smartphone camera then they shouldn't have used a tripod at all, but just snapped a photo with human shaky hands.
 
From what we know, the Lumia 920 will excel at taking pictures of non-moving objects but if it doesn't jack up the ISO and only works with longer exposure, then images of moving things will be blurry.

So being one generation ahead is not enough, it needs to be several generations ahead to be considered incredible? Oookay.

By that logic, then the test is completely pointless because there's no instance where you can snap a photo while perfectly motionless.

If the test is to show off the camera tech, then everything should've been optimized for the best photo. To show off the best real-life use of a smartphone camera then they shouldn't have used a tripod at all, but just snapped a photo with human shaky hands.

Of course, show more proof and there's always a catch, some hidden angle unexplored angle that could explain how the camera made the comparison unfair to the benefit of itself. That sneaky feeling that you can't just ignore.

But no matter, time will tell anyway.
 
By that logic, then the test is completely pointless because there's no instance where you can snap a photo while perfectly motionless.

If the test is to show off the camera tech, then everything should've been optimized for the best photo. To show off the best real-life use of a smartphone camera then they shouldn't have used a tripod at all, but just snapped a photo with human shaky hands.


Yep agree 100%, I'm never ever going to put my phone on a tripod. Just like when I really need to take a photo with my phone I'm not going to want to play around with the ISO or the white balance or anything else.

Which phone has the best camera equipment might be an interesting academic test but it is purely academic as far as I'm concerned.
 
Nokia never claimed that they invented a much better sensor, they only claimed that they invented a new image stabilization technology. Why so much focus into dissecting the quality of the sensor that should eventually prove it to be simply another derivative of the sensors available in the market is kind of curious.
 
So being one generation ahead is not enough, it needs to be several generations ahead to be considered incredible? Oookay.
I'm talking about one weakness that I can predict because I'm looking at the data. I can predict that Nokia's photos, in auto-mode, are good for non-moving objects but I can also see that an exposure of 1/3rd of a second is too long for moving images and generally too long for anything but lifeless things.

I'm not questioning Nokia's tech at all, it appears to be great, but I get frustrated when I see people claiming that the Galaxy S3 comes with a crappy camera or that the iPhone took worse pictures when they don't consider how the Nokia achieves the pictures, and what the way Nokia goes to achieve these pictures means in certain situations. Nokia's implementation of IS is a move in the right direction but it doesn't automatically mean that it'll take great low light shots in various situations.

Nokia's IS will be useful in certain situations but it remains to be seen if they have any other cards up their sleeve. If Nokia's auto-mode always chooses the setting it did in Engadget's test, you'll not get great results unless you take a picture of lifeless things. It could achieve even better results if the camera was good with high ISO values, which we don't know. Nokia's main feature, the IS, is not the reason why these pictures look as good as they do.

The camera is the feature Nokia always presents but whenever we see ads or tests, they always seem to be built around Nokia's strengths. What I'm missing are shots of various situations, moving images, actually shaky hands, shots with lots and lots of dark spaces.
 
I can answer some of these as a 5-year iPhone vet:

1.) In most appliactions, "back" is always in the top-left hand corner of the screen. In fact, I don't think I've used an app that required back/forth movement that didn't have back in the top-left. As such, it basically does have a dedicated back button. If an app needs it, it will always be in that very predictable location. Getting back to the main screen is always the home button


Emily means back, as in back to the previous task.

A multitasking back, if you will.

Android has a back button for this (going back to say, a web page after being sent to watch a YouTube video in the app) just like the iPad's 4 finger gesture swipe.

It really is a godsend for better/smarter navigation of your phone tablet, and one feature missing, that usually gets on my nerves when using an iPhone.
 
I'm talking about one weakness that I can predict because I'm looking at the data. I can predict that Nokia's photos, in auto-mode, are good for non-moving objects but I can also see that an exposure of 1/3rd of a second is too long for moving images and generally too long for anything but lifeless things.

You're making the assumption that the onboard software doesn't take analyse the scene and choose the exposure length as appropriate. That's not necessarily a reliable assumption because many cameras do just that, in auto mode my compact Panasonic adjusts various settings if something is moving in the shot.

Sure, you'd be screwed if something moved as you started taking an originally static shot... but that's not uncommon with any camera. Plus there's really nothing to stop it cutting the exposure length automatically then too (yes, I know that's not ideal).
 
I'm talking about one weakness that I can predict because I'm looking at the data. I can predict that Nokia's photos, in auto-mode, are good for non-moving objects but I can also see that an exposure of 1/3rd of a second is too long for moving images and generally too long for anything but lifeless things.

I'm not questioning Nokia's tech at all, it appears to be great, but I get frustrated when I see people claiming that the Galaxy S3 comes with a crappy camera or that the iPhone took worse pictures when they don't consider how the Nokia achieves the pictures, and what the way Nokia goes to achieve these pictures means in certain situations. Nokia's implementation of IS is a move in the right direction but it doesn't automatically mean that it'll take great low light shots in various situations.

Nokia's IS will be useful in certain situations but it remains to be seen if they have any other cards up their sleeve. If Nokia's auto-mode always chooses the setting it did in Engadget's test, you'll not get great results unless you take a picture of lifeless things. It could achieve even better results if the camera was good with high ISO values, which we don't know. Nokia's main feature, the IS, is not the reason why these pictures look as good as they do.

The camera is the feature Nokia always presents but whenever we see ads or tests, they always seem to be built around Nokia's strengths. What I'm missing are shots of various situations, moving images, actually shaky hands, shots with lots and lots of dark spaces.

Because who the heck has used camera on phones to test on fast moving targets? You want to set a new criteria sure, and you can say that Nokia's default shutter speed would make moving targets worse at 1/3 shutter speed. Yes, that's definitely possible. But it's also as simple as a software solution to just make the shutter speed faster. I don't see why new OIS tech would help reduce blur on moving targets which is not something people usually evaluate for with these kind of phones, that's kind of silly.
 
Emily means back, as in back to the previous task.

A multitasking back, if you will.

Android has a back button for this (going back to say, a web page after being sent to watch a YouTube video in the app) just like the iPad's 4 finger gesture swipe.

It really is a godsend for better/smarter navigation of your phone tablet, and one feature missing, that usually gets on my nerves when using an iPhone.

double tap the home button and click on the leftmost application.
 
You're making the assumption that the onboard software doesn't take analyse the scene and choose the exposure length as appropriate. That's not necessarily a reliable assumption because many cameras do just that, in auto mode my compact Panasonic adjusts various settings if something is moving in the shot.

Sure, you'd be screwed if something moved as you started taking an originally static shot... but that's not uncommon with any camera. Plus there's really nothing to stop it cutting the exposure length automatically then too.
We don't know yet. I'd hope the Lumia bumps up the ISO a bit as well but we just don't know. That's why it'd be great if reviewers actually showed something we don't already know. ;)

Because who the heck has used camera on phones to test on fast moving targets? You want to set a new criteria sure, and you can say that Nokia's default shutter speed would make moving targets worse at 1/3 shutter speed. Yes, that's definitely possible. But it's also as simple as a software solution to just make the shutter speed faster. I don't see why new OIS tech would help reduce blur on moving targets which is not something people evaluate for with these kind of phones, that's kind of silly.
Not talking about fast moving targets. I take pictures at clubs and bars on the weekends and using an exposure of 1/3rd of a sec would result in just bad pictures. And these people know I'm taking pictures, they hold still and don't jump around like fools. Longer exposure sometimes makes for a good look but not always and it's not the best setting for things that might move, even if it's not much.

But okay, we can continue to evaluate a phone camera's quality by mounting it to a tripod and choosing auto-mode. Because who the heck would not do that?
 
Nokia never claimed that they invented a much better sensor, they only claimed that they invented a new image stabilization technology. Why so much focus into dissecting the quality of the sensor that should eventually prove it to be simply another derivative of the sensors available in the market is kind of curious.

Which is exactly why I find the point of tripods to be stupid. If they're touting image stabilization tech then they shouldn't have a test with stabilized phones. And to further prove that their tech is superior (which I have no doubts it is) I would've even asked for the competitors' phones to be at their best settings to produce the best result, all of which would've undoubtedly been worse than Nokia's with the OIS.

I don't care if only 0.01% of customers will ever tweak the exposure and shutter speed and whatnot on a GS3. Let them do it anyway. Get them to give it their best shot, but ultimately show that with OIS, a simple snap-and-shoot will still give better results.

double tap the home button and click on the leftmost application.

The most intuitive mobile OS, ladies and gentlemen.
 
Not talking about fast moving targets. I take pictures at clubs and bars on the weekends and using an exposure of 1/3rd of a sec would result in just bad pictures. And these people know I'm taking pictures, they hold still and don't jump around like fools. Longer exposure sometimes makes for a good look but not always and it's not the best setting for things that might move, even if it's not much.

But okay, we can continue to evaluate a phone camera's quality by mounting it to a tripod and choosing auto-mode. Because who the heck would not do that?

I never said that the Engadget comparison is the end all of comparisons, I did say time will tell and you're dismissing other people's thoughts that the camera tech is good based on your own specific set of requirements. That's like saying AMOLED tech is not as good simply because you like white backgrounds and it'll drain the battery more than LCD. Okay sure, whatever. But you are going to further claim it wouldn't be an "incredible" improvement for most people using the camera, that's also disingenuous.
 
Microsoft has enabled Tiles to be created by the user with almost any unit of information from inside an app. That's an incredibly powerful tool and something that Android's widgets system doesn't really offer.

That sounds really interesting, could you give an example of a user created tile and the advantage this might have over an android widget?
 
That sounds really interesting, could you give an example of a user created tile and the advantage this might have over an android widget?

I've got a bunch of YouTube playlists and users pinned:
homescreen3.jpg
 
The most intuitive mobile OS, ladies and gentlemen.

No reason for the snark, it's consistent across the entire OS. The back button in Android sometimes takes you back within the app, sometimes it takes you to the last closed app. I prefer the way iOS handles it. The only difference is, iOS only has one button to work with.


are you deliberately being obtuse?

Not deliberately, no. More often than not, external links and YouTube videos are embedded within the app that is linking them (see: Tweetbot). Should the app send you to a different app to complete the task, you can always double tap on the home button and use the leftmost app icon to return to the app that sent you/the one you used last.
 
I never said that the Engadget comparison is the end all of comparisons, I did say time will tell and you're dismissing other people's thoughts that the camera tech is good based on your own specific set of requirements. That's like saying AMOLED tech is not as good simply because you like white backgrounds and it'll drain the battery more than LCD. Okay sure, whatever. But you are going to further claim it wouldn't be an "incredible" improvement for most people using the camera, that's also disingenuous.
When people talk about low light performance, then I want to see low light performance in various settings. Claiming the camera tech is exceptional by putting it on a tripod is stupid. We know that Nokia uses a longer exposure to get more light so it's important to see if that influences the quality of the picture when actually taking one. If you mount your device to a tripod then you can set the exposure to 30 seconds, will get a bright and colorful picture but is doesn't prove that your tech is actually exceptional.

We need to know to what extend the IS works, we need to know what ISO settings the camera/software supports, we need to know how the pictures look when the ISO is set to 3,200 or whatever. I specifically want to know if long exposure is Nokia's main trick to improve the picture quality, because if it is, people will run into problems and will be unhappy with the results - and taking pictures of humans in low light situation is not some made up situation that will never occur in real life. It's something many people do with their cellphones.

The camera's very good, no question. Still: The Engadget test says not a lot about Nokia's magic or the quality of the camera. If you want to talk about ridiculous specific requirements then please don't ignore Engadgets test setup...
 
Which is exactly why I find the point of tripods to be stupid. If they're touting image stabilization tech then they shouldn't have a test with stabilized phones. And to further prove that their tech is superior (which I have no doubts it is) I would've even asked for the competitors' phones to be at their best settings to produce the best result, all of which would've undoubtedly been worse than Nokia's with the OIS.

I don't see anything to suggest that Engadget weren't allowed to shoot however they wanted (watch the vid, she specifically mentions messing with some settings and not others). Seems they just stuck with what was presented to them on the whole.
 
Not deliberately, no. More often than not, external links and YouTube videos are embedded within the app that is linking them (see: Tweetbot). Should the app send you to a different app to complete the task, you can always double tap on the home button and use the leftmost app icon to return to the app that sent you/the one you used last.

I really like the solution in Windows 8. The back button is done in software, but swiping from the left edge of the screen instantly switches back to the last app you have open - it's the best of both worlds.
 
No reason for the snark, it's consistent across the entire OS. The back button in Android sometimes takes you back within the app, sometimes it takes you to the last closed app. I prefer the way iOS handles it. The only difference is, iOS only has one button to work with.




Not deliberately, no. More often than not, external links and YouTube videos are embedded within the app that is linking them (see: Tweetbot). Should the app send you to a different app to complete the task, you can always double tap on the home button and use the leftmost app icon to return to the app that sent you/the one you used last.

The flexibility of the android solution though is that the back button always takes you back to the last thing you were looking at. There are still the home buttons and multitasking button so it has the same functionality as iOS but more.
 
The flexibility of the android solution though is that the back button always takes you back to the last thing you were looking at. There are still the home buttons and multitasking button so it has the same functionality as iOS but more.

Android is more flexible? You don't say ... ;)

Fixed


OK, I'm not going to argue preference.

I thought you were wondering if said task could be accomplished. I only meant to inform, not to argue.

Still, it's factually correct that due to iOS' structure, you are rarely switching between apps to perform a certain task, which on Android, isn't necessarily true (i.e. unlike iOS, most Twitter clients on Android I have used display websites in your browser of choice, not in a container within the app.)
 
When people talk about low light performance, then I want to see low light performance in various settings. Claiming the camera tech is exceptional by putting it on a tripod is stupid. We know that Nokia uses a longer exposure to get more light so it's important to see if that influences the quality of the picture when actually taking one. If you mount your device to a tripod then you can set the exposure to 30 seconds, will get a bright and colorful picture but is doesn't prove that your tech is actually exceptional.

We need to know to what extend the IS works, we need to know what ISO settings the camera/software supports, we need to know how the pictures look when the ISO is set to 3,200 or whatever. I specifically want to know if long exposure is Nokia's main trick to improve the picture quality, because if it is, people will run into problems and will be unhappy with the results - and taking pictures of humans in low light situation is not some made up situation that will never occur in real life. It's something many people do with their cellphones.

The camera's very good, no question. Still: The Engadget test says not a lot about Nokia's magic or the quality of the camera.

30s != 1/3s. There is no indication that there's anything else other than the OIS that contributes the difference. The Verge's aritcle shows them taking the photos with the phones held in their hands. Obviously there's no jerky bar patrons in their photos either like you have mentioned, but to just say the new camera is not far better just because it doesn't fulfill 100% of situations is just silly. The difference now that the problem is entirely software. Perhaps if you turn the shutter speed down you'll just get back the same old noisy/dark photo like other phone cameras, but the difference now is that you can capture low light photos for participants that doesn't move within ~1/3s with that level of quality.

Oh yeah, but who cares? It is clearly better, but don't you say it's amazing!
 
You can manually set the ISO on the 920 if you wanted to as well. Which I am certain would reduce the shutter speed. Which would still also benefit from IS. Anything slower than 1/125 or 1/100 will benefit from IS. The Samsung also has a f2.6 aperture so it is inherently going to have a harder time in low light anyway.
 
It's definitely what I'll miss the most once I get my iPhone 5 after using WP7.5 and Android for the last few months.
I do find myself going to touch the bezel next to the home button on my iPod when I want to go back, I am just so used to the soft keys on my nexus. This seems to me to be one of those moments when apple wants to keep things simple (just have one button) but this actually hinders the experience.
 
30s != 1/3s. There is no indication that there's anything else other than the OIS that contributes the difference. The Verge's aritcle shows them taking the photos with the phones held in their hands. Obviously there's no jerky bar patrons in their photos either like you have mentioned, but to just say the new camera is not far better just because it doesn't fulfill 100% of situations is just silly. The difference now that the problem is entirely software. Perhaps if you turn the shutter speed down you'll just get back the same old noisy/dark photo like other phone cameras, but the difference now is that you can capture low light photos for participants that doesn't move within ~1/3s with that level of quality.

Oh yeah, but who cares? It is clearly better, but don't you say it's amazing!
Like I said, I wish Nokia allows good shots in other situations as well. I haven't seen such photos yet so I don't know. I'll get the Lumia 920 at launch since I want to kind of stay in the WP ecosystem but I'm kind of worried about the fact that we've not really seen the camera in action in various settings.

My main reason for this discussion here was actually not to bash the Lumia 920 but more to make sure people will not judge the quality of the other phones based on the Engadget shots. That'd just be stupid. I'm pretty sure that even if all settings were the same on each phone, the 920 would still take the best pictures in that situation. I'd bet on that.

To me, it's not really amazing. I don't usually take photos with my cell phone as I'm always carrying a camera around. Neither of the photos is good enough for me to consider it to be worth it, unfortunately, because I can obviously get better results with my dedicated camera. Though, like I said, it's a step in the right direction...
 
My god! Give it a rest. Engadget just put up a test to show how each Phone takes a lowlight picture with autosettings, the way the vast majority of Phone users take shots. I'm sure we'll get more extensive tests in the future if you want some kind of optimized for each phone's strength tests. This is not that.
 
My god! Give it a rest. Engadget just put up a test to show how each Phone takes a lowlight picture with autosettings, the way the vast majority of Phone users take shots.

Like it has been mentioned before, the vast majority of users would use their flash in a low light situation like that. Certainly on the HTC One X, auto flash is turned on by default, but the flash wasn't used in these test pics.
 
To me, it's not really amazing. I don't usually take photos with my cell phone as I'm always carrying a camera around. Neither of the photos is good enough for me to consider it to be worth it, unfortunately, because I can obviously get better results with my dedicated camera. Though, like I said, it's a step in the right direction...

Oy vey! Not the "I carry a Nikon 5d everywhere I go excuse."
 
Like it has been mentioned before, the vast majority of users would use their flash in a low light situation like that. Certainly on the HTC One X, auto flash is turned on by default, but the flash wasn't used in these test pics.

And it was also mentioned that flash only helps you in super up close situations. A flash isn't going to help improve those water shots.
 
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6334/iphone-5-screen-performance

""Wrapping up, the iPhone 5 display is a whole quantum leap better than the display on the iPhone 4. Contrast levels and light output have both been increased, and color performance is astonishing. The full sRGB gamut is present here, and color errors are remarkably low for a even a high end desktop display. While many were hoping for a move to OLED or some other screen innovation, this really is a huge step up that is very easy to quantify. To put this in perspective, in the past few years I've reviewed probably 30-40 different displays, from PC monitors, to TVs to projectors. Not a single one, out of the box, can put up the Gretag Macbeth dE numbers that the iPhone can, and perhaps one projector (which listed for $20,000) can approach the grayscale and color accuracy out of the box.

Apple obviously has very high control over what parts they use and what comes off their assembly lines. I don't know if they are having the displays individually adjusted after they are assembled, or if the quality control is very strict, or if I just got a really remarkably lucky sample. I do know that if TV and PC Monitor vendors were able to provide displays that looked like this out of the box, professional calibrators would lose a good amount of business potentially. The new panel in the iPhone 5 is simply remarkable in quality and if it were a PC monitor, I'd give it a Gold Award on the basis of it's performance..""

Is this phone comparison thread or display wars?

Yes, the iPhone 5 has a good display.

When you're friends are asking you to play the latest game or showing you how to extend the functionally of their phone with a cool app you'll be able to show off your screen.

Game changer
 
Too lazy to form a proper argument?

The last time someone compared the 920's camera to a DSLR, we had 4 people in a row who asked that user about the phone specific features of his DSLR. He never came back.

Lol this has been done on dslrs forever. My old Nikon D40 can do this.
How's its reception?
how's facebook on that?
Can you carry it in your pocket?
How's the browser?

And while it was funny at that moment, I don't want that the same thing happens to you.
 
Is this phone comparison thread or display wars?

Yes, the iPhone 5 has a good display.

When you're friends are asking you to play the latest game or showing you how to extend the functionally of their phone with a cool app you'll be able to show off your screen.

Game changer

what?

it's not like you have to choose between "amazing display" and "cool apps" when it comes to the iPhone.
 
My Experience so far with all 3 is that Windows Phone is the fastest and easiest to navigate and learn. People say it lacks the apps but the community is really swell, there's 3rd party apps that do a lot of things you'd want from a smart phone. Some of them are even better apps than 1st party offerings.

I don't know what to think about Windows Phone's app situation, on one hand official support is a little dry. On the other hand it has some of the best community-driven developed apps you'll see on a phone.
 
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