• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Halo |OT10| The Calm Before The Storm

S

SHIFTYkiwi

Member
CyReN said:
If you get a F that's going to translate into "wow I'm never playing this again". A D can translate into "I should practice more so I can get a better rating".

That's my thinking at least.
Click to expand...

Dose 343i really want a ranking system that tells players they suck at the game? Personally I don't have anything wrong with it cos I hate political correctness, however I doubt 343i would want to do so.

That's where a A,B,C,D,F ranking system would not work in my opinion.
 
I

IHaveIce

Banned
So let me get this straight.

There is no visible ranking system for now, but that doesn't mean there will never be one?
There are still some tests and tweakings going?

I can live with that for now.
 
S

Shake Appeal

Member
Woorloog said:
Arguably the more ranks there are, the more accurate the system is, very few people would end up with absolutely lowest ranks if there were, say, 100 ranks (and people wouldn't start at 1 but rather they were placed after 10 games).
Click to expand...
This is why Starcraft (and now CoD) create mini 'Divisions' within their larger Leagues, so yeah, you might be very near the bottom of the heap, but you've still got something to squabble over with an immediate group of peers: you can strive to finish 88th in the lowest tier of the system, and not 89th.
 
P

Poker Face

Member
If the banhammer is good Halo 2's 1-50 would be fine. Don't play for x amount of time? Your rank begins to deteriorate and you rank down.
 
V

ViewtifulJC

Banned
IHaveIce said:
So let me get this straight.

There is no visible ranking system for now, but that doesn't mean there will never be one?
There are still some tests and tweakings going?
Click to expand...

Sure. Please buy our game and I can(kinda) promise you(maybe) that some kind of ranking system will be in Halo 4(some day down the line).
 
A

Amazing Mic

Neo Member
Glad this isn't my job.

Shake Appeal's primer on why ranks are awesome pretty much describe me. But I get it- I'm part of a small community, a very toxic community that had plenty of bad seeds that spoiled a good thing. I said it in an earlier post, but it does feel like being in grade school again and some punk's stupid actions taking recess away.

I feel like it comes down to pleasing the "1%" but at the same time diluting the game for a substantially larger percent. I believe 343 thinks that Reach's population fell off because of the progression system and playlist management - not gameplay on the same scale. I agree w/ this, even as someone who only played Arena for the first year +. For most people, the progression system was too slow and too limited compared to other titles out there. Playlists diluted populations, which made game quality drop. Some people really think a huge percentage of people left because "I can't 4 shot bks"- I will never buy it. Numbers dropped because it's easier to feel like a bad-ass in other games w/ my airstrikes, etc.

Those of us in the ranked crowd understand the flaws of 1-50, unless they are some snot-nosed punk (they are plenty and they are usually the loudest). I laugh when another subset of people say "we need something like SC2", being completely ignorant to how Arena works. This isn't Shake Appeal and the like- who see value in a better executed SC2 system.

I still believe if you made several changes to arena it would have been much healthier:
A) call Arena "Team Slayer" - it's no coincidence that Arena's pop jumped 10x when there was a jackpot. It is just a bigger motivation for most players. But having the name value of TS would keep these players around and cut on search times and poor matching.
B) had a "highest level achieved" fixed on your service record. Lets face it, that's what matters most to many in the ranked community.
C) buff the divisions. I get a huge laugh when people say "ranks were too easy." Ranks were too hard and inclusive. 50% iron? Yeah, I wouldn't want to come back either. My ranks jumped up dramatically when the pool became larger w/ the jackpots. You go 20-20-20-20-20, less people get their feelings crumpled, and you keep the accuracy.
D) Enforcement against iron boosting. It's much easier to catch compared to other manipulation- shame it didn't happen in Reach.

I still think H4 looks great, I'm incredibly excited to play. I'm bummed that my traditional playlists aren't gong to be in at launch, but I knew this might happen as I was a minority in a system that needed overhauled. I may not agree w/ all the decisions, but I appreciate the massive efforts involved in improving the game, and I can respect the decisions made.
 
O

Overdoziz

Banned
A - F grades are dumb.
Also, if 343 is that worried about cheaters why not implement a report system right into the game? Make it really easy to report people. Maybe even have an ability to add theater clips.
 
S

Swarmerr

Member
Shake Appeal said:
I would argue the main problems of the Arena, in descending order were:

snip

3. Lack of transparency. Dividing people into bronze, silver, onyx, etc.? Good idea. Making the requirements of these and their relative positions within them more or less impenetrable? Bad idea. Tell me I'm 15th out of the 100 players in my division, that I just dropped seven places, and that I need 17 points to reclaim 8th. Let me know where my friends finished, exactly, relative to me. Put all that info in a well-lit, available space outside of the game, and let the people who care about it go find it if they want it. Make the consequences of defeat or quitting very, very obvious, and make every aspect of ranking and the 'rules' clear as day to players, so they're not fumbling around wondering why they're silver instead of gold. And then make sure to give them the names of the people they have to 'beat' to get back there. Give them the tools to tell stories, basically.
Click to expand...

Bolded I agree with so much.

Also, another problem with arena was the lack of instantaneous update. Meaning if I win 5 games and lose two I don't know where I stand in the division till the next day. I feel this especially sucked the life out of arena for many players, at least I know it did for me.
 
E

ElzarTheBam

Member
Talents said:
You're dumb.
Click to expand...

iwulfq.gif
 
D

dalVlatko

Member
What was the problem with Halo 2's ranking system? It was the most transparent and enjoyable. You could even go to Bungie.net and see how well you are progressing in your level, if you are going to go down with one more loss or go up with a win.

Cheaters ruined anything above 40 but that wasn't the ranking systems fault.
 
H

Hydranockz

Member
Overdoziz said:
A - F grades are dumb.
Also, if 343 is that worried about cheaters why not implement a report system right into the game? Make it really easy to report people. Maybe even have an ability to add theater clips.
Click to expand...

Because if you make it too easy to report then you make the level of noise far greater. Look at your XBL stats for people avoiding you. Look at how easily you can get mute banned in Reach. Making it too easy is just going to end up with people reporting everyone that beats them. Then what worth would the reports have?
 
W

Woorloog

Banned
Shake Appeal said:
This is why Starcraft (and now CoD) create mini 'Divisions' within their larger Leagues, so yeah, you might be very near the bottom of the heap, but you've still got something to squabble over with an immediate group of peers: you can strive to finish 88th in the lowest tier of the system, and not 89th.
Click to expand...

I'm not a fan of divisions, because i don't get a good picture how i'm placed withing the league. How many divisions there are per league? Is A division actually better than B division or are they just named differently?
Doesn't feel transparent enough.
But if done right, with enough transparency, with proper knowledge how you compare to others and other divisions and leagues, i guess i could like the system. If i cared about ranks anymore. Playing Halo 3 to 45 burned that stuff out from me.
 
P

Poker Face

Member
Overdoziz said:
A - F grades are dumb.
Also, if 343 is that worried about cheaters why not implement a report system right into the game? Make it really easy to report people. Maybe even have an ability to add theater clips.
Click to expand...

A report system with a good banhammer would be excellent imo.

You have a list of people who seem like they are cheating according to the banhammer, and they get pushed up the list the more people people report them.
 
B

Blueblur1

Member
Ramirez said:
Wait, X's over your death area are gone, AND friendly fire is off? Please tell me this is not true...
Click to expand...
I hope the red X's are still there. It's a bit ridiculous to think that we would have to rely on the motion sensor for that or the capitalized combat dialogue text. (Which is such a terrible idea. I can't see who killed who with grenades or assassinations and its harder to parse out individual names when EVERYTHING IS CAPITALIZED.)
 
F

FL1Psyde

Neo Member
SHIFTYkiwi said:
Dose 343i really want a ranking system that tells players they suck at the game? Personally I don't have anything wrong with it cos I hate political correctness, however I doubt 343i would want to do so.

That's where a A,B,C,D,F ranking system would not work in my opinion.
Click to expand...

This is the problem with society today, they think things should be handed to them. When I was growing up, you didn't get a trophy for just playing, you got the trophy because you were the best.
 
P

Poker Face

Member
Blueblur1 said:
I hope the red X's are still there. It's a bit ridiculous to think that we would have to rely on the motion sensor for that or the capitalized combat dialogue text. (Which is such a terrible idea. I can't see who killed who with grenades or assassinations and its harder to parse out individual names when EVERYTHING IS CAPITALIZED.)
Click to expand...

seems like they got rid of red Xs looking at gameplay.

wow
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
FL1Psyde said:
This is the problem with society today, they think things should be handed to them. When I was growing up, you didn't get a trophy for just playing, you got the trophy because you were the best.
Click to expand...

I walked a 100 miles to school through molten lava and when I got there the teachers made us eat broken colecovision cartridges. You kids today don't know how good you've got it.
 
F

FyreWulff

Member
dalVlatko said:
What was the problem with Halo 2's ranking system? It was the most transparent and enjoyable. You could even go to Bungie.net and see how well you are progressing in your level, if you are going to go down with one more loss or go up with a win.

Cheaters ruined anything above 40 but that wasn't the ranking systems fault.
Click to expand...

Because Halo 2's ranking system was ELO, which is broken for modern ranking systems.
 
E

ElzarTheBam

Member
Stinkles said:
I walked a 100 miles to school through molten lava and when I got there the teachers made us eat broken colecovision cartridges. You kids today don't know how good you've got it.
Click to expand...


Ah yes, this gives me the opportunity to re-quote Squid's awesome post.

"In my day, we had to walk 5 miles through the stroke-inducing heat of Texas (which lasts about 9 months) and fight the hungry, angry bobcat in front of Montgomery Ward so we could sift through the Atari and Intellivision games to pick the ones with the best cover art, or at least the titles we remembered from the back cover of a comic book. That was a game developer's marketing strategy, and we embraced it for what it was (never understood the whole bobcat fighting thing, but the point is I learned how to ride a bobcat at an early age).

Now you little bastards jump all over a developer when the gameplay pictures, videos, and opinions of regular and professional gamers who got to play a version of the game 4-5 months early isn't nearly enough for your goldfish-like brains.

I blame Jimmy Carter."

This was your greatest post Squid, I demand these stories for when we actually meet on XBL.
 
M

MrDaravon

Member
Frank, aside from the rank discussion are you able to say if Day 1 the playlists available in matchmaking will be different then the ones floating around that are on the pirated copies? Aside from the rank thing this is my biggest concern.
 
B

bobs...onGaf

Member
Pop said:
I find a lengthy(15min Video) on forge, weapon and armor abilities if you guys wanna see it.
Click to expand...

Ah thanks - video was less interesting than I imagined lol - in a way its cool we know the full sandbox but in another way its strangely anti-climatic.

I still want to see a video where someone just navigates around the menu's - the war games menu looks slick.
 
D

DeadNames

Banned
I don't see what the fuss with ranks is about. As long as it's fun and the trueskill works well, I'm set.

But the playlists... Ehhh. Regicide shouldn't be it's own playlist.
 
S

Shake Appeal

Member
Woorloog said:
I'm not a fan of divisions, because i don't get a good picture how i'm placed withing the league. How many divisions there are per league? Is A division actually better than B division or are they just named differently?
Doesn't feel transparent enough.
Click to expand...
The game creates as many Divisions (of, let's say, 100 players) as it needs to fill the 'quota' for each of the Leagues (Iron, Bronze, Silver, Gold, Onyx) from the playerbase of those who have competed in a given season.

So let's say, for simplicity's sake, 10,000 people qualifty for ranking over the course of a season, and 20% of the population are shunted into each League (maybe the top 2% enter a 'Grandmaster' League, reducing the Onyx count to 18%). There are thus 2,000 people in Iron, Bronze, Silver, and Gold at any one time, 1,800 in Onyx, and 200 in the Grandmaster League.

People can move in and out of Leagues depending on their performance, but within a League, the game creates 'Divisions' of 100 players that are intended to be representative of the League as a whole. So if I am 17th in, e.g., 'Iron 7', it is telling me that I am (roughly) in the 83rd percentile for the Iron League as a whole. The game creates and populates these divisions as needed, and moves players sideways from Division to Division to maintain that (rough) sense of placement relative to the greater League. This tells me, at a glance, how am I (roughly, in so far as is possible) doing, and gives me an immediate set of peers to compete with and compare myself against -- or to challenge, if that feature were implemented, allowing me to make aggressive upward advances. This also serves to personalize the experience, so my opponents are not a faceless mass (Arena is characterized by a feeling of uncertainty about how you're doing, with the outcomes often entirely incongruous to how you felt you were doing; this can't be 'solved', as such, but it can be improved), but other players like me that I can put a name and skillset to. And then every so often the game pits me against players from a higher or lower League, just to check I'm more or less where I should be: the consequences of winning to players from a higher League (or losing to players from a lower one) ensure these games are for higher stakes than the inter-Divisional ones.
 
I

IHaveIce

Banned
ViewtifulJC said:
Sure. Please buy our game and I can(kinda) promise you(maybe) that some kind of ranking system will be in Halo 4(some day down the line).
Click to expand...

I know what you are trying to say, but I#m not even thast mad about Ranks.

Slayer Pro list with really close Trueskill matchmaking and guests prohibited would be (like Kylej would say) good enough.

I think there are things to be more mad about than Ranks, but to everyone his own. (many big maps, look a like maps, theater untouched etc)


But now I want to see the guys who said they don't buy it without Ranking System, do they vote with their money? Are they really missing out on Halo 4?
 
G

GodlyPerfection

Member
Stinkles said:
Also Forge guy just doesn't know how to use all the Forge features yet. UI has changed and presumably he's playing with it at NY where you get 15 minutes on a station on an old build - if he's not, then he's a pirate and still hasn't figured out the UI. Forgive me if I don't have any sympathy for him.
Click to expand...

Thank you for addressing this because us forgers are definitely in the 0.1%... lol. There are a lot of festering wounds right now among those who have heard about this. And I'm hoping that number stays low because of the high chance (almost inevitable, but I find qualifying a statement is important) of misinformation. Information like this is potentially game breaking for a lot of the veteran forgers, to the point that I know a few people have stated that if this is the case there is a good chance they won't be getting the game as forge is a long term thing for them and Halo would otherwise be a game to play until the next new game that comes out rather than always coming back to forge. I know if what is stated was indeed true then I would still fight through it as it can't be worse than Halo 3. lol...

As the minority of the minority of those who care about the franchise I'm not expecting a full on bandaid for the information, just looking forward to some of my own hands-on experience. Again thank you for addressing it. Just a little over 22 more days... my body is ready.
 
Pop

Pop

Member
bobs99 ... said:
Ah thanks - video was less interesting than I imagined lol - in a way its cool we know the full sandbox but in another way its strangely anti-climatic.

I still want to see a video where someone just navigates around the menu's - the war games menu looks slick.
Click to expand...

All those MP streams last night and not a single person went into theater. -__-
 
W

Woorloog

Banned
Shake Appeal said:
SNIP
Click to expand...

Yeah, i understand the basic idea of the divion system in SC2 but i never quite got where i stood relative to others and other divisions. There is nothing in-game that explains the system, i'd have to look for that info elsewhere.
So, more transparency and explanations, without having to look for that info from the internet.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Halo Infinite Firefight Announced - December 5th
News 2
98
8K
twilo99 replied
The State of Xbox Game Studios and Bethesda Softworks: A breakdown of all the Confirmed Projects, Leaks, and Rumors
Opinion News Rumor 2
84
10K
Ozriel replied
The Executive Leadership at 343 Needs to Go
2 3 4 5 6
294
29K
WorldHero replied
  • Locked
Community Forum Index
Community
19
4K
Sidney Prescott replied
  • Sticky
Forum Index of Community Threads
Community
34
21K
Grieves replied
Top Bottom