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[Oersted]

Someone needs to photoshop Keighley´s face into this.

Edit: for being the first post on a new page:

I'll do a short recap:
Keighley surrounded by doritos followed by gaming bloggers retweeting a hashtag for advertising to win a PS3 makes Florence of Eurogamer curious.
Florence writes an article saying how things are shady and some sound like straight up PR e.g. Wainright orgasms for everything Squenix.
Eurogamer/Wainwright send libel threats to Eurogamer, at which the article was edited to remove mentioning of Wainright.
Wainwright responds in twitter "Apology accepted" and something in the vain of applying her law classes to use.
Florence either steps down or is forced to resign to avoid any libel threat.
Both sides deny any threat or are not talking about it directly, but twitter posts hint that such threat existed. Florence is not confirming or denying whether he was fired or he stepped down.
"GAF and 4chan combine forces to see this standalone complex issue" alongside digital protest from Penny Arcade and more, showing what happened.
Wainwright's profile shows she is a freelancer for Square Enix. She admitted it and denied doing any reviews for Square Enix or shilling (she is wrong. She reviewed Deus Ex, Tomb Raider and did countless previews).
All this fiasco is too much for her and she privatize her twitter account. Next thing you know, she starts deleting tweets, videos and articles, and edits her profile to remove any mention of Square Enix freelancing.
People find some comments of her thanking someone called Korina that used to work at Ubisoft.
Korina Abbot used to work at Ubisoft and is currently the marketing executive at...Square-Enix.
David Jaffe offers Keighley Mountain Dew.
Gaming journalism.

Credits to JSDN and Shagg


Probably the best post:

This fucking industry man... What a sad day this has been for everyone involved. Robert Florence for not having a job anymore. Eurogamer for not having the confidence in their writer and not having his back. Wainwright for being called out on her public shamelessness and instead of owning up to it and maybe take a look at your work ethics, she threats to sue. For all the self proclaimed game 'journalists' who either defended her or the idea that there's actually no problem with having poor work ethics. For all the people who think this is to be expected and not do or say anything about it. For all the big game blogs, sites and notable game writers that didn't report or touch the story for whatever reason. And finally, for people attacking Wainwright for being female and not dealing intelligently with the situation.

A sad day indeed for this industry.



Reading this only makes me more upset towards this whole thing.

Credits to Gomu Gomu

Summary of the news/opinion pieces I could find about Eurogamer/MCV/Wainwright:


Forbes 10-25

Gamesutra 10-25

John Walker (personal site) 10-24
John Walker (personal site) 10-25 (piece 1)
John Walker (personal site) 10-25 (piece 2)

Kill Screen 10-25

Penny Arcade 10-25

WorthPlaying 10-25


I think that covers everything published so far.

Credits to Syriel

 

[Femmeworth]

This whole thing is just depressing, and I don't even care about gaming journalism.

People are far too eager to make the woman a victim. It's patronising. Words are meaningless on the Internet.

Maybe to you.

 

[Rufus]

Bringing up hate speech that is inevitable with these kinds of story only serve the purpose of redirecting the discussion away from the wrong-doing of the controversial person onto an amorphous blob of random hatred that everyone can agree is bad.

It hasn't slowed this thread down at all and 95% of it is on topic as far as I can see. Not saying that it's never utilized to deflect in the way you suggest, but in this case it's just people being embarrassed by some of the reactions. The issue at hand shines too brightly for the entire thread to turn in that direction.

 

[Beautifully Shaped Monsters]

She said "the products", referring specifically to her consulting work in the previous sentence, not "their products", meaning their games in general.

It doesn't make it much better.

I wouldn't trust an article praising Monsanto's GMO Soya from a journalist who consulted for Monsanto but came out and claimed that he only consulted for their corn.

The fact is that she has completely skewed view on what what constitutes ethical and unbiased journalism, And the fact that she is trying to defend just makes it sadder. I would put it down to being young, inexperienced and likely without formal training, but that still doesn't make it right.

Saying she is a victim is ridiculous, she dug her own grave.

 

[Doombear]

I was the original creator, but then someone (can't remember who at the moment) changed it by adding the eyes and the green hands.

As the creator of Muffin Geoff™ I have to admit the current version is (much) better.

We're a team Dawg! I couldn't have done it without cha!

 

[Freshmaker]

There shouldn't be any need to distinguish hype from journalism. The two need to be completely separate. You either work in PR or as a journalist, you can't do both. If anything, both jobs are opposites of each other.

Come on.

I'm beginning to think nobody in the "LOL Game Journalism" crowd even knows what the word means.

Someone writing for a magazine etc that covers a specific industry can't avoid interacting with that industry's PR reps. There's no way around it short of espionage which is going just a wee bit too far just to offer one's opinion on whether or not they happen to like using or viewing a product that the industry created.

At best you have critics acting as consumer advocates. At worst you have extensions of the PR, (given the used games are evil furor or people that actively defend even the worst decisions MS makes with Box Live billing etc, that's half the gaming population in general) but in either case, they're kinda stuck covering what the industry they're watching produces.

If you want something harder edged, why are you reading a gaming blog?

 

[lednerg]

I just hope this whole Wainwright episode doesn't end up burying the lead.

Game journalists getting swag is one thing. That's standard operating procedure, like it or not. Stuff We All Get means just that, they all get the stuff no matter whether they end up writing about the games or not.

The difference here was that journalists were asked to advertise a product (use a hash tag on Twitter) in order to receive a reward (chance to win a PS3). It's a fine line that was crossed, but it was there and people like Rab noticed it right away. The same kind of thing happened a few months back, when a Kickstarter game dev asked writers to write an article about their game in order to receive a Kickstarter pledge gift. People lost their shit over that one, and rightfully so.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

I think both issues are specially shitty so I don't know why people are afraid that 'bigger' issues are buried.

 

[criesofthepast]

I thought bruceleeroy did the mgs4 ot.

edit: yeah he did: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=303161

m0dus did the art, way before he became a mod since he became a mod in 2010, MGS4 was 2008. And besides, the OP/thread creator is BruceLeeRoy, who has been suspected as a viral marketer due to his photoshop ability and other stuff.

In any case, I hope the dude that wrote the article makes a spin-off site kinda like Jeff did with GiantBomb. If he does independent fringe reviews and the like, I'd check it out. But the sad truth is: His days in the industry/"game jouralism" job are numbered since he's rocking the boat and the boat doesn't like to be rocked.

Ah right it was bruceleeroy. I knew m0dus was involved somehow though.

Sure you're referring to Modus who announces how he has been commissioned by companies to produce art. Well after he started to produce stuff if I recall?

ShockingAlberto said something like the OT creator(s) for MGS4 were rewarded for making that amazing OT by Konami. Not talking about the commissioned art (psn themes and such) that m0dus did for Konami. I confused m0dus for bruceleeroy.

I'm just generally curious what's going on with these OT's and accepting compensation for them. Don't think I like that if thats what is really happening.

 

[Mama Robotnik]

Regarding victimisation: As I have said earlier, insults and references to Wainwright's gender should not be happening, and we should extinguish them where we find them. They are the ultimate distraction as to the seriousness of the issues being discussed.

For the scrutiny Wainwright has to now deal with - she is not a victim. Remember that Wainwright - and her advocates (MCV, News International or Square Enix) - are the aggressors. They were the ones that launched the legal volley towards Rob and Eurogamer, in an explicit and calculated strategy to censor references to her now-apparent corruption. Wainwright (informed by her legal education - as she admitted on Twitter) was the one that cost Rab Florence his position - by either legally intimidating Eurogamer into dismissing him, or censoring him to the point where Rob had to leave because of his journalistic integrity.

This invited the scrutiny of all of her media, work and commentary that she chose to put into the public domain. The aggressor's corruption is exposed for the world to see: she printed reviews repeatedly advocating that gamers purchase the products of her Square-Enix paymasters. Rab's suspicions of her agenda, censored from what will be his final Eurogamer article, were intensely accurate.

In this regard, I don't see how the world victim applies.

 

[Dakota47]

Just woke up but I don't think I missed much since I went to sleep. I did miss this pic on this page though.

 

[Dawg]

We're a team Dawg! I couldn't have done it without cha!

I like you.

 

[zaxon]

It doesn't make it much better.

I wouldn't trust an article praising Monsanto's GMO Soya from a journalist who consulted for Monsanto but came out and claimed that he only consulted for their corn.

There is no specific evidence that she worked for SE prior to reviewing any of their games. The only known info is that she "consulted" on FFXIII-2 by playing through the completed game prior to its release in January 2012. Her last review of an SE game was in August 2011.

 

[DTKT]

Come on.

I'm beginning to think nobody in the "LOL Game Journalism" crowd even knows what the word means.

Someone writing for a magazine etc that covers a specific industry can't avoid interacting with that industry's PR reps. There's no way around it short of espionage which is going just a wee bit too far just to offer one's opinion on whether or not they happen to like using or viewing a product that the industry created.

At best you have critics acting as consumer advocates. At worst you have extensions of the PR, (given the used games are evil furor or people that actively defend even the worst decisions MS makes with Box Live billing etc, that's half the gaming population in general) but in either case, they're kinda stuck covering what the industry they're watching produces.

If you want something harder edged, why are you reading a gaming blog?

I guess my imaginary "this is not okay" line stops at presenting something with huge ass Mountain Dew "GAME FUEL" bottles and a Halo 4 cardboard cut-out behind you.

I don't think anyone is expecting outlets to stop interacting with PR, I just can't trust or have any faith in a press that is too close to them.

 

[Mutanthands]

I think both issues are specially shitty so I don't know why people are afraid that 'bigger' issues are buried.

It's just like politics. You find a scapegoat, focus all the outrage on that individual. Some punishment or exile is doled out, the public's thirst for vengeance/change is satiated, and the rest go back to business as usual. That's the fear.

She clearly crossed the line. But the discussion shouldn't end with her.

Edit: clarification in last line.

 

[KingFire]

Come on.

I'm beginning to think nobody in the "LOL Game Journalism" crowd even knows what the word means.

Someone writing for a magazine etc that covers a specific industry can't avoid interacting with that industry's PR reps. There's no way around it short of espionage which is going just a wee bit too far just to offer one's opinion on whether or not they happen to like using or viewing a product that the industry created.

At best you have critics acting as consumer advocates. At worst you have extensions of the PR, (given the used games are evil furor or people that actively defend even the worst decisions MS makes with Box Live billing etc, that's half the gaming population in general) but in either case, they're kinda stuck covering what the industry they're watching produces.

If you want something harder edged, why are you reading a gaming blog?

Interaction is Okay. The government's regulatory agencies interact with the lobbyists of the industries they regulate all the time. Working together is never the issue; the issue is one party that is supposed to regulate/criticize another party works for that specific other party.

Sadly, the latter is the case here.

 

[Beautifully Shaped Monsters]

I just hope this whole Wainwright episode doesn't end up burying the lead.

Game journalists getting swag is one thing. That's standard operating procedure, like it or not. Stuff We All Get means just that, they all get the stuff no matter whether they end up writing about the games or not.

The difference here was that journalists were asked to advertise a product (use a hash tag on Twitter) in order to receive a reward (chance to win a PS3). It's a fine line that was crossed, but it was there and people noticed it right away. The same kind of thing happened a few months back, when a Kickstarter game dev asked writers to write an article about their game in order to receive a Kickstarter pledge gift. People lost their shit over that one, and rightfully so.

Wow, I never heard of the Kickstarter thing.

I disagree with what you say though. In any other industry there are very clear guidelines for what you are allowed to accept, and it usually is limited to essentially worthless promotional items (mugs, pens, etc) or cheap things like a cup of coffee during a chat or meeting (or a cheap lunch for a longer meeting.)

I myself need manager approval to accept anything worth more than $20, for anything above $50 it has to be run by the high ups at the mother ship.

Game reporters regularly receive quite valuable gifts up to and including consoles. A couple of years ago MS gave out an Xbox to every member of the audience at their E3 conference.

In my opinion, anyone who accepts something like that cease to have any critical voice, and instead becomes a freelance PR person. That's ok, but then to go on and say they have integrity when it comes to game reviews, or being critical of anti consumer practises at big game publishers, etc is laughable.

Calling these people journalists is an insult to real journalists.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

I guess my imaginary "this is not okay" line stops at presenting something with huge ass Mountain Dew "GAME FUEL" bottles and a Halo 4 cardboard cut-out behind you.

I don't think anyone is expecting outlets to stop interacting with PR, I just can't trust or have any faith in a press that is too close to them.

I found it more hilarious and sad than actually unethical (although it is but I can see the delicious sadness in Geoff eyes )

It's just like politics. You find a scapegoat, focus all the outrage on that individual. Some punishment or exile is doled out, the public's thirst for vengeance/change is satiated, and the rest go back to business as usual. That's the fear.
.

Well, I don't think there is a cabal of shadowy PR executives and corrupt journalists generating and controlling the outrage. If that was the case, things as "Square Enix in journal DELETEEVERYTHING" wouldn't happen.

 

[Neuromancer]

I found it more hilarious and sad than actually unethical (although it is but I can see the delicious sadness in Geoff eyes )

Yeah I can't imagine any of that was his idea.

 

[lednerg]

I think both issues are specially shitty so I don't know why people are afraid that 'bigger' issues are buried.

Well, the Wainright/Florence thing is really just an isolated incident. It's fun to talk about, sure, but in the end, it's about the actions of a few people.

The bigger issue is about the culture of game journalism in general, and it speaks to concerns that many have had for years about the industry and how it conducts itself.

Of course, it's good that the more sensational smaller story has introduced more people to the bigger one. Hopefully this encourages an open, honest dialog between game journalists and their readers. I'm sure their inboxes are flooded with people asking what their take on it is.

 

[Empty]

No insult, no finger-pointing intended in the following.

Pharmaceutical company companies extensively research physicians' hobbies and personal interests, send attractive spokespeople to "inform" said physicians about their products over three-star michelin meals and golf games. Without exception, these physicians insist that they are immune to unethical influence.

Corporations like Coca Cola spend $10 billion a year or more on advertising campaigns with messages that college undergrads -- here I'm speaking from experience as a former instructor -- unfailingly insist they're uniquely insusceptible to.

Either these corporations are somehow recklessly burning revenue by the billions and somehow raking in unprecedented profit despite the sheer stupidity of their business practices or people are prone to maintain flattering though entirely unrealistic images of themselves. Unfortunately for us, replicated psychology experiments point to pervasive self-deception. Fortunately for us, while it's practically impossible for us to accurately monitor our own self-interest, we're marvelous at pointing it out in others. And this is the why the appearance of impropriety matters so much.

Tomes of research on the topic are out there and anyone remotely interested in cognition will encounter the experiments again and again. For those unfamiliar with it I recommend starting here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B006IYFCIM/?tag=neogaf0e-20

excellent post.

i think it compliments john walker's original post on the appearance of impropriety well, it's really important to pay attention to these things, challenge yourself and not to have the arrogance that you're doing fine and aren't being swayed to view a game in a positive light without realizing it, as the processes are far more complex and subtle than thinking 'man i love this hotel and free swag better give the game a high score to keep 'em coming'.

 

[Smash88]

Dawg you are my favourite new poster. Don't mess up, so we can have you around.

Also this whole fiasco, holy fuck, what a disaster. It's so sad to see an industry you grew up with and care so much about turn into this.

I wish there were proper ethics and guidelines in this industry, so we don't have to deal with shit like this. It started with Geoff Muffin™ and it inadvertently went to deeper corruption roots, regardless of how insignificant the person who got caught up in this truly is.

What a day.

EDIT: Also I have to chime in about Tony. Shame to see him go - he has such bad timing. He seems like a nice person, but I understand why the ban was permanent. You can't have holes, especially if he comes back and gets PM's that people are interested in making OT's for money, then the integrity of this forum would falter. The last thing we need is the potential for OT's or people to be bought out and give fake reviews as posts, essentially misleading people. I come to these forums to not only have fun, but to see everyone's opinions on games that I am potentially interested. And it helps - it's one of the main reasons I stayed away from purchasing Dragon Age II, Mass Effect 3, and more recently, Darksiders 2. It would be a shame to have the views of individuals become corrupted as well.

 

[Mutanthands]

I found it more hilarious and sad than actually unethical (although it is but I can see the delicious sadness in Geoff eyes )

Geoff has done great work before (especially with The Last Days Of series), but he's like a cub reporter who wants to be Cronkite, covering the Local Fair.

From the dunk booth.

Every day, in perpetuity.

 

[lednerg]

Wow, I never heard of the Kickstarter thing.

I disagree with what you say though. In any other industry there are very clear guidelines for what you are allowed to accept, and it usually is limited to essentially worthless promotional items (mugs, pens, etc) or cheap things like a cup of coffee during a chat or meeting (or a cheap lunch for a longer meeting.)

I myself need manager approval to accept anything worth more than $20, for anything above $50 it has to be run by the high ups at the mother ship.

Game reporters regularly receive quite valuable gifts up to and including consoles. A couple of years ago MS gave out an Xbox to every member of the audience at their E3 conference.

In my opinion, anyone who accepts something like that cease to have any critical voice, and instead becomes a freelance PR person. That's ok, but then to go on and say they have integrity when it comes to game reviews, or being critical of anti consumer practises at big game publishers, etc is laughable.

Calling these people journalists is an insult to real journalists.

I think that is completely valid. Don't get me wrong, even though accepting copious amounts of swag is 'standard operating procedure', that doesn't make it right, either. In fact, it is just that kind of culture which starts to blur the lines, and makes accepting outright bribes not seem so bad.

EDIT: Article mentioning the Kickstarter's bribe for coverage

 

[illmatic19]

Funny how this all started with Geoff Keighley and he hasn't mentioned this at all.

 

[Coconut]

Funny how this all started with Geoff Keighley and he hasn't mentioned this at all.

Probably because it's a whole bunch of nothing.

 

[Majima Everywhere System]

What sort of sad sack doesn't own a PS3 at this point if they are that involved with games? I'm sad because I know that anyone who participated in the contest only did so to sell it or avoid having to buy a Christmas gift for someone.

 

[Zeliard]

Geoff Keighley's eyes are going to haunt my dreams.

 

[Mutanthands]

Funny how this all started with Geoff Keighley and he hasn't mentioned this at all.

He knows. You can see it in his eyes. What's he going to say? "Yes, I willingly work in an industry that where 'journalists' work hand in hand with the industry we cover, forgoing editorial independence and honest opinions for swag and trips! And it's soul crushing! Ha!"

 

[Dawg]

 

[Joni]

Probably because it's a whole bunch of nothing.

Indeed. In the end he is an employee of Viacom, and I'd suspect their other employees have the same obligations as him when it comes to shameless plugs like this. Viacom probably looks at him like they look at the media personalities of MTV.

And he is probably enjoying the irony of being accused by a company that immediately fired a writer that did investigative journalism.

 

[Smash88]

It doesn't loop!

 

[CambriaRising]

So should I tell my psychiatrist to send the bills to you, or...?

 

[Fistwell]

Good morning Europe!

*summary of previous episodes*

So... nothing actually happened over the last 8hrs or so? You guys filled up 8 pages over nothing?
Anyways... as you were... carry on...

 

[NoirVisage]

Probably because it's a whole bunch of nothing.

Word, glad Jeff of Giantbomb is staying silent as well, the florence fella kind of went full renegade with his article, naming names at all especially with flimsy points, he threw Eurogamer under the bus to be honest.. writing a piece catering to Neogaf was ill advised.

 

[firehawk12]

Word, glad Jeff of Giantbomb is staying silent as well, the florence fella kind of went full renegade with his article, naming names at all especially with flimsy points, he threw Eurogamer under the bus to be honest.. writing a piece catering to Neogaf was ill advised.

Why would Gerstmann need to say anything? Is rolling around in piles of Doritos dust?

 

[UrbanRats]

Looks like he's part of Davy Jones crew, wtf.

 

[Mutanthands]

Word, glad Jeff of Giantbomb is staying silent as well, the florence fella kind of went full renegade with his article, naming names at all especially with flimsy points, he threw Eurogamer under the bus to be honest.. writing a piece catering to Neogaf was ill advised.

...

Really? Care to elaborate on what you thought the flimsy points were?

 

[Boris]

This needs to be quoted for euro-people, too.

It's 3.30am, I haven't read through the thread much and I'm tired so just going off the recap from shagg_187, it's a bit rushed but whatever

 

[NoirVisage]

Why would Gerstmann need to say anything? Is rolling around in piles of Doritos dust?

People earlier in the thread were pining for his input.

...

Really? Care to elaborate on what you thought the flimsy points were?

Why are we "studying" the image of Geoff Keighly again?

 

[NoirVisage]

Dopple-post

 

[lexi]

Another damning indictment on games journalism, both the subject matter of the Eurogamer article and the fervorous misogynistic zeal that followed.

 

[Wunder]

FUCK, there were like 5 copies of that gif on this page and I looked at the ONE that was a jpg for like 5 minutes and I was freaking the fuck out. God damnit. I don't even GET IT, is he a cupcake?!

 

[Mutanthands]

FUCK, there were like 5 copies of that gif on this page and I looked at the ONE that was a jpg for like 5 minutes and I was freaking the fuck out. God damnit. I don't even GET IT, is he a cupcake?!

MountainDew-Doritos cupcakes. They're a real thing.

 

[not_so_special]

Fuck those people who try to make insinuations about other people's characters based on their obvious leanings.

yeah..the same dan shu who gived 9 to perfect dark 0? yeah fuck us the same who ended working for ms? yeah fuck us,the same dude who got into neogaf and start to promote turn 10 games and shitting on gran turismo?

yeah...fuck us

 

[Ban Puncher]

MountainDew-Doritos cupcakes. They're a real thing.

 

[Fistwell]

it had fuckall to do with Keighley

Yeah, pretty much. He only gave us a funny (turned scary) picture.

so why is he being dragged through the mud

He's not? This is essentially about Rab Florence / Lauren Wainwright. The Geoff gif is a silly side-dish.

Based on what we actually know, I think it's just as likely that her connection to Squeenix is essentially nonexistent -- just a couple of tiny contract jobs her friend who works there threw her while she was unemployed.

So, I hear what you're saying, there's nothing that constitutes evidence of actual corruption. If she did publish anything related to SE after her gig with them (and she did, she helped them on ff13-2, and later published a blurb on hitman and tomb raider), that's dodgy as all hell imo, but it doesn't mean it was paid PR (although it does read like PR). With that being said, I thought her friend worked for ubisoft? Any existing reference to a friend working for SE as well?

 

[AHappyPanda]

People earlier in the thread were pining for his input.


Why are we "studying" the image of Geoff Keighly again?

IDK if anyone's really said anything bad about Keighly. At most, they made him into a Mountain Dew Doritos Cake Monster.

 

[aegies]

Using aegies as an example (just because he's posted in this thread), he's not paying for the trips. When he travels, the expenses aren't coming out of his pocket. That would be the same even if he wasn't working for Polygon.

I own part of Polygon. So if we're being technical, yes. It is costing me money.

 

[FantasticMrFoxdie]

Well this thread was an interesting (and sad) read. Thanks GAF for making it hilarious though.