I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Damn.. don't get more shameless than N'gai.
I'd love for someone to maintain a list of all the great replies and arguments in this thread by people who know what they're talking about. That way they won't get lost in the shuffle. I don't want to usurp these people's posts and use them as ammo in a shit-flinging contest, but simply keep them easily accessible since they're very much worth reading for anyone involved in the discussion.
I'll start, point me towards posts and I'll add them:
Know someone who works for a gaming magazine. They gave Spongebob a low rating. Guess what happened? They are blacklisted, another big maazine got the exclusive CoD title story.
The site listed in your profile gave Brink an 81 out of 100.
His job now (as someone who runs a game development consulting firm) is to tell developers what Metacritic average they can expect based on a game's current state. It's his job to be very well connected to press, PR, publishing, and development. So... people care.Is he delusional? I thought he left games anyways. Why is he even weighing in and why would anyone care?
How the fuck does Wainwright still have a job after this?
The site listed in your profile gave Brink an 81 out of 100.
I've been avoiding most of this conversation because talking about games and the people behind them is more interesting than talking about press, and the issues here are pretty clearly gross. Advertising a game on your Twitter feed for a PS3 is not OK. Consulting for a game company that you also write about (without even disclosing your relationship) is very, very, very not OK.
But there's a lot of generalization and condemnation in this thread. It might be easy to paint one clear picture in your head of everyone in video game journalism as a corrupt hypocrite, but there are hundreds of working journalists in gaming, each with his or her own standards, ethical limits, and practices.
For example, some people might see it as OK to accept a trip from a publisher - I don't. (And Kotaku has an anti-press junket policy, as do quite a few other publications/websites.)
But some people might also see it as not OK to eat lunch at a press event - I have no problem with that. Lunch is lunch. If you disagree with me, that's OK too. Personal limits are a big part of being a reporter, in any field.
Point is: it's unfair to dismiss all of game journalism as corrupt because of incidents like this, or because some people have different standards than others, or because some people believe that some compromises are OK. Just like how it'd be unfair to look at this thread and say "Wow, GAF is a bunch of generalizing assholes." See what I'm saying?
But there's a lot of generalization and condemnation in this thread. It might be easy to paint one clear picture in your head of everyone in video game journalism as a corrupt hypocrite, but there are hundreds of working journalists in gaming, each with his or her own standards, ethical limits, and practices.
Point is: it's unfair to dismiss all of game journalism as corrupt because of incidents like this, or because some people have different standards than others, or because some people believe that some compromises are OK. Just like how it'd be unfair to look at this thread and say "Wow, GAF is a bunch of generalizing assholes." See what I'm saying?
The site listed in your profile gave Brink an 81 out of 100.
Sports journalism is considered a joke by and large.
I would agree if the press weren't almost universally silent on this whole mess. But many of us can't help but see your collective silence as tantamount to an admission of guilt. Say something, for crying out loud. There's an 800lb gorilla in the room, and you're leaving those of us standing on the other side of the door to talk about it.Point is: it's unfair to dismiss all of game journalism as corrupt because of incidents like this
Originally Posted by JABEE:
http://www.twitch.tv/gamespot
ugh!
Pretty girl + "TIME'S RUNNING OUT!" + "How much would YOU pay?". Holy shit that is some QVC shit.
This is the first episode too. Amazon have terrible timing this week.
I would agree if the press weren't almost universally silent on this whole mess. But many of us can't help but see their silence as tantamount to an admission of guilt.
I don't know about that -- in fact, I totally disagree. That's certainly not in academic circles, at least. The work of people like George Plimpton is taken seriously.
Its tipical for writers with a past background that doesnt involve gaming to come in and embarass the rest of them with their quality writing and "ethics". Kinda embarrasing how this has being ignored by some american sites, you would think by their silence that there are also libel laws on the states.
Her friendship with a PR person is no different from the rest of the industry. Fact is theres no journalistic integrity in the gaming circle. Whatsoever, its cut throat against anyone who speaks out; silencing people who want to change things; whilst also ignoring the ideas of journalism and integrity.
I'm following this thread until Wainwright is released/fired/quits her job as well. Blood for blood. Rab had every right to suggest that it APPEARED that some tomfoolery MAY have been afoot.
I've been waiting for some clarification on the differences between US and UK law regarding libel. Otherwise, this has been the best source of information on the whole situation out there.
I predicted this exact statement in the Giant Bomb thread. We ain't gonna stop talkin about it, or that circle jerk you, N'gai, and the others are having. Stop fuckin avoiding it and face it.
And, in my humble, customer/viewer opinion, going out to eat/socialize with PR people is NOT ok.
That kind of response isn't really characteristic of what I've heard from him on podcasts. His twitter responses are little more than deflection. He must smell the sharks circling.It's N'gai: Yes, yes he can be that dense.
I've been avoiding most of this conversation because talking about games and the people behind them is more interesting than talking about press, and the issues here are pretty clearly gross. Advertising a game on your Twitter feed for a PS3 is not OK. Consulting for a game company that you also write about (without even disclosing your relationship) is very, very, very not OK.
But there's a lot of generalization and condemnation in this thread. It might be easy to paint one clear picture in your head of everyone in video game journalism as a corrupt hypocrite, but there are hundreds of working journalists in gaming, each with his or her own standards, ethical limits, and practices.
For example, some people might see it as OK to accept a trip from a publisher - I don't. (And Kotaku has an anti-press junket policy, as do quite a few other publications/websites.)
But some people might also see it as not OK to eat lunch at a press event - I have no problem with that. Lunch is lunch. If you disagree with me, that's OK too. Personal limits are a big part of being a reporter, in any field.
Point is: it's unfair to dismiss all of game journalism as corrupt because of incidents like this, or because some people have different standards than others, or because some people believe that some compromises are OK. Just like how it'd be unfair to look at this thread and say "Wow, GAF is a bunch of generalizing assholes." See what I'm saying?
You just got TOLD, son. ;D@shagg_187 Not sure if serious...this is the first tweet I've seen from this handle. Perhaps you were in Twitter jail? http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Twitter Jail
I've been avoiding most of this conversation because talking about games and the people behind them is more interesting than talking about press, and the issues here are pretty clearly gross.
The site listed in your profile gave Brink an 81 out of 100.
Circle jerk? This is my contribution to the circle jerk: https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/261537033577713664
And you misunderstand me: I don't think it's a bad thing that you guys are talking about it. It's an important issue and it's never a bad thing for readers to want to keep press honest. I just have very little personal interest in talking about these things nowadays - I'd rather spend my time talking about games, and talking to the people who make games, you know? I prefer to keep the story about them, not me.
Circle jerk? This is my contribution to the circle jerk: https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/261537033577713664
And you misunderstand me: I don't think it's a bad thing that you guys are talking about it. It's an important issue and it's never a bad thing for readers to want to keep press honest. I just have very little personal interest in talking about these things nowadays - I'd rather spend my time talking about games, and talking to the people who make games, you know? I prefer to keep the story about them, not me.
Also acts racist.Willfully dense I am sure.
I thought Spongebob was THQ?
So Kotaku = ethics and journalistic integrity?
Thank you. Corrected it.
We need a new thread. Half of the posts here are "what happened?" and "that happened."
It's the same thing that happens with any big controversy. Look at Penn State. It is not on the same level at all, but everyone defending them pointed to one person being the bad guy and how it shouldn't reflect on the entire culture or school. The same comments came from Penn State alums. "We need to move on." Don't wallow in the misery of controversy and rough thoughts. People want change, but no one is willing to stick their neck out, because business is better when the boat is shaking and deliveries are going smoothly.I would agree if the press weren't almost universally silent on this whole mess. But many of us can't help but see their silence as tantamount to an admission of guilt. Say something, for crying out loud. There's an 800lb gorilla in the room, and they're leaving those of us standing on the other side of the door to talk about it.
"mmm should I e-mail my publicist?"
is not you?
Circle jerk? This is my contribution to the circle jerk: https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/261537033577713664
And you misunderstand me: I don't think it's a bad thing that you guys are talking about it. It's an important issue and it's never a bad thing for readers to want to keep press honest. I just have very little personal interest in talking about these things nowadays - I'd rather spend my time talking about games, and talking to the people who make games, you know? I prefer to keep the story about them, not me.
Except that this goes to the heart of their coverage of video games. If they won't address this, we can't help but question the entire basis of their claims to authority, impartiality, access, etc., etc. This is probably the single-most important thing they could talk about.Because they'd rather avoid it and talk about video games not people writing about video games.
This is why I don't have a huge problem with Geoff being surrounded by doritos and mt dew. Is it embarassing? Yes. Professional, probably not the most. But since it wasn't a review, and the interview in the video was actually ABOUT the mt. dew double xp program, I don't quite see why this is an issue. Of course, I do not know the full extent behind that deal. I don't know how GameTrailers does deals with their advertisers, but I can't see it being that incredibly different.
The stuff like the free PS3's for Hashtags DOES irk me though, and I really hate seeing it. That does undermine the journalistic integrity of sites, and it bodes ill for the industry as a whole. I just wanted to give my take on this, because I don't like seeing on site advertising getting lumped into this. No one jumps down ESPN's throat because today's monday night football is sponsored by Arby's.
You went and made a joke out of it like all the others instead of confronting or commenting on the actual issue at hand.
Oh SNAP.
You just got TOLD, son. ;D
Have we done anything to make you believe otherwise?
We make mistakes, that's for sure -- I'm sure lots of you remember that thread about me a few months ago when I made some very stupid mistakes -- but I'm very proud of some rather hardline ethical stances we've taken/continue to take all the time.
No press junkets, for example! If we ever go on a trip, we pay our own way.
No, that's just overgeneralization. By your logic, it is impossible to write a negative review/article if the PR gifts/food/whatever was excellent? Because, we've had plenty negatieve reviews about bad games, even if the PR was good. I remember getting a very cool Brink PR package, but that game was awful. Thus it received an awful review. PR gift was cool, but that's it.
The site listed in your profile gave Brink an 81 out of 100.
Most of my Twitter feed is joking around with people. You don't have to take it so seriously!
You don't see a problem with an "interview" about Mt. dew and Doritos?! I dont watch sports but I kind of doubt those dudes interview an Arby's Roastbeef sandwich in their sports coverage.
Granted the Keighley pic is pretty minor compared to other stuff being discussed, but that doesnt make it any less ridiculious.
Their readership isn't interested. Only loosely related to games. Ain't got time for this shit.So where are the stories about what we're discussing in here? It's a hot-button issue at the moment but mysteriously I see it nowhere on Kotaku. The "Gamer's Guide".
I've been avoiding most of this conversation because talking about games and the people behind them is more interesting than talking about press, and the issues here are pretty clearly gross. Advertising a game on your Twitter feed for a PS3 is not OK. Consulting for a game company that you also write about (without even disclosing your relationship) is very, very, very not OK.
But there's a lot of generalization and condemnation in this thread. It might be easy to paint one clear picture in your head of everyone in video game journalism as a corrupt hypocrite, but there are hundreds of working journalists in gaming, each with his or her own standards, ethical limits, and practices.
For example, some people might see it as OK to accept a trip from a publisher - I don't. (And Kotaku has an anti-press junket policy, as do quite a few other publications/websites.)
But some people might also see it as not OK to eat lunch at a press event - I have no problem with that. Lunch is lunch. If you disagree with me, that's OK too. Personal limits are a big part of being a reporter, in any field.
Point is: it's unfair to dismiss all of game journalism as corrupt because of incidents like this, or because some people have different standards than others, or because some people believe that some compromises are OK. Just like how it'd be unfair to look at this thread and say "Wow, GAF is a bunch of generalizing assholes." See what I'm saying?
Yes. The almost universal press silence on these events is deafening.Have we done anything to make you believe otherwise?
Most of my Twitter feed is joking around with people. You don't have to take it so seriously!
Their readership isn't interested. Only loosely related to games. Ain't got time for this shit.
Why hasn't Kotaku posted one story about this yet?Most of my Twitter feed is joking around with people. You don't have to take it so seriously!