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S-E news: New Agni's Philosophy in June 2013, (very) small VXIII and LR:XIII update

Do we know how much Versus is costing SE to make? Or at least have a statement from them about the development costs?
people seem to be under the impression that they've had a zillion people working on it non stop since 2006. I'm pretty sure that's incorrect. I mean someone tell if I'm wrong, but development didn't get into full swing until plenty after 2006.
 

Kagari

Crystal Bearer
Still you rated the game far better than XIII if I remember correctly. Those focus groups helped crafting a more complete experience, while Toriyama's input in the story made it a worse scenario. Are we really sure the focus groups are the problem here?

Rating the game higher doesn't mean much when the bar was already low. The fact is, Perfo, there's nothing compelling enough about either game to get me to play them again, where as I have no problem replaying any of the PS1 or PS2 era FFs many times over.
 

MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Best part of XIII-2 was GILGAMESH. Best lines in the game and made more sense then the entire plot.

Come at me.
 

SykoTech

Member
people seem to be under the impression that they've had a zillion people working on it non stop since 2006. I'm pretty sure that's incorrect. I mean someone tell if I'm wrong, but development didn't get into full swing until plenty after 2006.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. People are saying that a port would necessary just to cover the development costs alone, which sounds really crazy. I was curious as to whether there was an official statement about the development costs supporting that, or if people ae just making up stuff.
 

Persona86

Banned
people seem to be under the impression that they've had a zillion people working on it non stop since 2006. I'm pretty sure that's incorrect. I mean someone tell if I'm wrong, but development didn't get into full swing until plenty after 2006.

It didn't go into full production until end of last year...or was it 2010? Anyway your right.
 

Mario007

Member
people seem to be under the impression that they've had a zillion people working on it non stop since 2006. I'm pretty sure that's incorrect. I mean someone tell if I'm wrong, but development didn't get into full swing until plenty after 2006.

I think it was like 2008 when they started development (after helping out on FFXIII) and even then it was a small enough group, then they worked on it for like a year or two and were probably at the stage where they could have called in the armada of SE coders to finish off the game in 12-18 months but that's no longer possible due to FFXIV.
 

Seance

Banned
Source: http://www.ffdream.com/news-14010.html (french)



-Versus XIII: Definitely still in development. The project is very, very ambitious according to this guy, and that is why it's taken so long. He says once the project will be fully revealed, people will be happy to have waited so long. Also, Yoichi Wada is determined to push the development team as far as they can.

Dat arrogance. Even the most hardcore of defenders are pissed of with the dev time. No matter how good the game is that resentment will remain.
 

MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Dat arrogance. Even the most hardcore of defenders are pissed of with the dev time. No matter how good the game is that resentment will remain.

If GILGAMESH is in it and not as DLC I shall forgive.

And youtube the game and buy the soundtrack in bitterness
 

Perfo

Thirteen flew over the cuckoo's nest
Rating the game higher doesn't mean much when the bar was already low. The fact is, Perfo, there's nothing compelling enough about either game to get me to play them again, where as I have no problem replaying any of the PS1 or PS2 era FFs many times over.

I understand it... but I can't say I agree, after all I played FFXIII three times already from 2010, lol. Anyway I think focus groups in general (with mixed gamers coming from different regions of the world) can help jRPGs getting out from the stasis they're in, somehow. FFXIII-2 shown alot of ideas coming from western shores, the only problem was the lack of a competent director giving those ideas concrete realization.
 

Whompa

Member
Dat arrogance. Even the most hardcore of defenders are pissed of with the dev time. No matter how good the game is that resentment will remain.

I'd class myself in the, "hardcore of defenders" category. I say Square should take all the time that they want...I was really really impressed with what had been shown so far.
 

MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
whatever happened to that UE4 next gen game they were working on? I think they released some art for it but that was it.

If they show a game featuring agni's philosophy engine then it's ok ;)

They mention it once and will never appear until it's complete, release at the time of other games and get overshadowed and have potential awesome but is overlooked and never seen again.
 
They mention it once and will never appear until it's complete, release at the time of other games and get overshadowed and have potential awesome but is overlooked and never seen again.

meanwhile they continue to tease us with pie in the sky bullshit tech demos. And the specs for the next set of consoles don't even sound impressive...
 

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
I understand it... but I can't say I agree, after all I played FFXIII three times already from 2010, lol. Anyway I think focus groups in general (with mixed gamers coming from different regions of the world) can help jRPGs getting out from the stasis they're in, somehow. FFXIII-2 shown alot of ideas coming from western shores, the only problem was the lack of a competent director giving those ideas concrete realization.
I dunno. Whenever I think focus group, I think...

ULfcq.png

There are still good Japanese-developed RPGs out there (I've played a few this year even), even from Square-Enix themselves as much as people seem to not like to admit it. They're still being developed without caring much about meeting audience needs and wants and instead going with the creator/team vision like it always seemed to be before. *shrug*

I wish more devs would take Falcom's approach to developing games instead. It's great, and they seem to have a good guy at the top who's in this for making games and entertaining rather than making a crapton of money.
 

Yasae

Banned
I would propose they're out fishing for feedback so significantly because they honestly don't know what they're doing wrong or where they should go, especially in a market that's rewarding maybe 10 console titles a year at this point at the level they would want mainline Final Fantasy to sell, and they know that most (and often all) of those receive extensive user testing.
Publish, like they've been doing.
 
-Something "different" about Agni's Philosophy will be shown in June 2013 (E3?), on "something other than PC". Based on the guy's smile, it's clearly next-gen platforms.

Nice joke there, like whatever show will not be running on monster PC. Ah S-E, your incompetence knows no bounds. THat's ok, we got CDP to save the day.
 
Why the fuck would its time in development matter at all? Unless you're personally funding its development of course.

If it's a good game then I'll be happy. Simple.

This has got to be a joke post. Or maybe you're used to waiting 7+ years for games, I don't know.
 

Famassu

Member
It better be the most amazing game ever made, then. We're approaching seven years since the debut trailer.
Do keep in mind that it hasn't been actively in development for seven years, not even close. They announced it way before Nomura & the KH team were ready to start work on it and then there were the Crystal Tools issue, finally getting FFXIII out issue and probably now losing some workforce for FFXIV 2.0. It's probably been in development for about 3,5 years now, most of that with a relatively small team for a game of its size.

Versus XIII is ambitious in the sense that it will (from the tidbits they've revealed about the game) offer a game that is similar to older FF games in scope and what you can do (i.e. airships, plenty of secrets to be found), yet all of it has been updated to current top-level games (great visuals, the kind of cinematic stuff that you usually only see in more straightforward games). So they aren't sacrificing freedom for pretty visuals, but are trying to offer it all (huge overworld with tons to explore + very pretty visuals and new approach to stuff like storytelling).

It doesn't mean the game will be perfect or that you'll agree with every design decision they've made (that is, the game will still be a somewhat buttonsmashy action RPG and not, say, have a combat system as deep as Bayonetta), it's just that that kind of scope with that kind of technical quality can't be made in a year or two. You also have to understand that the game has gone through at least 2-3 major changes. Initially, they had a slightly bigger version of a traditional FF world map, but then it seems they changed their minds and decided to go with an approach that looks to be closer to FFXII's overworld than older FFs. Cut scenes were another big thing they changed at some point. Originally the game had the usual FF-type *watch long-ass non-interactive cutscenes", but from what they've told they've decided to do away with only moving story forward with those kinds of cutscenes and instead go with a more interactive way. So scenes where you had no control before were changed to letting you actually maintain control of your character (of course there will be more traditional cutscenes as well).

Now I'm 100% sure Versus has been moved to next gen.
Yeah, no.

Nice joke there, like whatever show will not be running on monster PC. Ah S-E, your incompetence knows no bounds. THat's ok, we got CDP to save the day.
And your silly ignorance & stupidly blind hate of Square Enix knows no bounds either. They are just hinting that the next time they'll show Agni's Philosophy, it will be running on the other hardwares they've intended the engine to be running on (that is, PS4 and Nextbox) and not just be demonstrated on the PCs they've used to also build the engine. How you think that is incompetence is beyond me, that's just stupid thinking, especially given that they've already shown it running on PCs. :|

Not to even mention they've really put huge effort into the PC versions of their games, so it's not like they are ignoring the market or treating them badly.

This has got to be a joke post. Or maybe you're used to waiting 7+ years for games, I don't know.
Why is it a joke post? I don't see why the time between announcement & release should matter at all where quality is concerned, especially when Square Enix has been so quiet about it not to overhype the game and deciding to let the game speak for itself when they finally do decide to bring it out of the shadows. It'd be different if they were constantly telling how awesome the game will be and how it will be the bestestestest thing ever.
 

ReaperXL7

Member
I dunno. Whenever I think focus group, I think...



There are still good Japanese-developed RPGs out there (I've played a few this year even), even from Square-Enix themselves as much as people seem to not like to admit it. They're still being developed without caring much about meeting audience needs and wants and instead going with the creator/team vision like it always seemed to be before. *shrug*

I wish more devs would take Falcom's approach to developing games instead. It's great, and they seem to have a good guy at the top who's in this for making games and entertaining rather than making a crapton of money.

What funny to me is that a dev that seemingly many on gaf dislike(level-5) can make what looks like the jrpg I've wanted all this gen with Ni No Kuni complete with a full explorable overworld, lots of player customization and HD towns (which square said was just too hard) all with very nice graphics, and lots of content, but they probably have about a fraction of the resources that square enix has if anything it just tells me that square either does not know, or care about what their fans want. So not only are they failing to expand their audience ( I think ffxiii and -2 sold the lowest in the series recent history) but at this point they are driving their once large install base further away with every choice they make.

Its really kind of depressing when I think about all of the classic games they have made and/or published in the past.
 
This has got to be a joke post. Or maybe you're used to waiting 7+ years for games, I don't know.

Really? My post is the joke? Not the people having tantrums because they can't play Versus right now?

I'm not personally funding the game and I'm not a Square Enix stockholder, so why should I care how long it takes? I don't NEED to play any game, so the idea of getting angsty over constant delays is ridiculous to me. It's not like my life revolves around it or that there aren't other games to play.

As long as the game is good, I'm fine with them taking however long they want. Same thing goes with Half Life Episode 3, Last Guardian and MGS Ground Zeroes.
 
Really? My post is the joke? Not the people having tantrums because they can't play Versus right now?

I'm not personally funding the game and I'm not a Square Enix stockholder, so why should I care how long it takes? I don't NEED to play any game, so the idea of getting angsty over constant delays is ridiculous to me. It's not like my life revolves around it or that there aren't other games to play.

As long as the game is good, I'm fine with them taking however long they want. Same thing goes with Half Life Episode 3, Last Guardian and MGS Ground Zeroes.

Maybe some people are more passionate about it then you? Going on 7 years is a long time to wait for anything. And if some douche from SE is saying it will all be worth the wait, then the game better fucking deliver.
 

Kyoufu

Member
I understand it... but I can't say I agree, after all I played FFXIII three times already from 2010, lol. Anyway I think focus groups in general (with mixed gamers coming from different regions of the world) can help jRPGs getting out from the stasis they're in, somehow. FFXIII-2 shown alot of ideas coming from western shores, the only problem was the lack of a competent director giving those ideas concrete realization.

Aren't you Toriyama's biggest fan?
 
Maybe some people are more passionate about it then you? Going on 7 years is a long time to wait for anything. And if some douche from SE is saying it will all be worth the wait, then the game better fucking deliver.

If other people have no patience and unrealistic expectations, then that's their problem, not mine.
 

Famassu

Member
Maybe some people are more passionate about it then you? Going on 7 years is a long time to wait for anything. And if some douche from SE is saying it will all be worth the wait, then the game better fucking deliver.
Well, to me it'll be enough that I see where the time they've used has been spent (if the game world is as big as they've implied it to be, the cinematic stuff as impressive as in the trailer we've seen and the combat as good as in the Kingdom Hearts games). If they take their time, yet the game is a buggy mess and 5 hours long, then sure, I'd be disappointed. But I won't be disappointed when the game turns out not to be flawless or beat every game of every genre it has elements from (I don't expect it to have better combat than Bayonetta, better dog fights than IL-2 Sturmovik, better racing than Gran Turismo & Forza, better mecha action than Zone of the Enders 2nd Runner or Armored Core etc.), if it's fun and really is as ambitious (and successfully so) as they've implied it would be.
 

jaxword

Member
I hope Agni's philosophy really is a game of FF magical heroes versus Terrorists. Just for the sheer self-righteous internet meltdowns that will ensue.


SQUARE ENIX JUST SHOT THEMSELVES IN THE POLITICAL FOOT
 

Famassu

Member
D. All of the above.
Sorry, Versus XIII is not going to be a next-gen game. It's just silly to think so. Just like FFIX wasn't a PS2 game and FFXII wasn't a PS3 game.

Also, I'm pretty sure the budget won't be too outrageous (obviously it'll be big, but not something that will cause Square Enix to go bankrupt if this doesn't quite sell as well as they expect it to be). They haven't had a 600 man team working on it non-stop for 7 years (and it hasn't been worked on for 7 years either, that's a fact, period). They only entered full production a year ago, before that they've had a relatively small team getting it to a point where they can just churn out the rest of the content of the game once all the kinks are out of the way and they aren't going to do any major changes to the game design etc.

I'm sure the protracted, horribly mismanaged development of Vs XIII will result in a great final product.
It hasn't been mismanaged. They announced it way too soon and had problems with the Crystal Tools + the team has had to help with at least one other project during Versus XIII's development, but other than that it's just a hugely ambitious game that takes time to realize. They've screwed up a couple too many FFs already by rushing them out, no need to do so with Versus XIII.
 

cj_iwakura

Member
Rating the game higher doesn't mean much when the bar was already low. The fact is, Perfo, there's nothing compelling enough about either game to get me to play them again, where as I have no problem replaying any of the PS1 or PS2 era FFs many times over.

I definitely can see myself replaying XIII for the story. XIII-2... uh, not so much.
 

Erethian

Member
It hasn't been mismanaged. They announced it way too soon and had problems with the Crystal Tools + the team has had to help with at least one other project during Versus XIII's development, but other than that it's just a hugely ambitious game that takes time to realize. They've screwed up a couple too many FFs already by rushing them out, no need to do so with Versus XIII.

No, I'm pretty sure it's been mismanaged. I could understand if they had iterated through a number of different design concepts, as was the case with Resident Evil 4. But so far as I know it's been the same original concept all the way through, and they still don't have anything substantial to show for it. Which is almost always the result of mismanagement, and a team that can't effectively execute on their design goals.

Nor is there anything in the released information to suggest the game is hugely ambitious beyond what a competent, well-managed development team could deliver in 2-3 years.
 

DJIzana

Member
I'm impressed they even said ANYTHING regarding Versus.

This also better be the last time we EVER see in a main FF game. We sure as hell better not see Lightning Returns at E3 this year either!

I'm also impressed with Agni tech demo, even on a character design level. Way better job than XIII.

Finally, As for Type-0, I want to know more about this "clean slate" they said recently also.
 
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