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[ThatObviousUser]

I actually know exactly what Retro Studios thinks about it, and it's all positive.

I am SHOCKED! (and appalled!)

 

[big_erk]

The guy says "to not compare it clock for clock with the 360 and claim it's much worse, it isn't", but people do it anyway.

Of course they do, it's no fun if they don't.

 

[EloquentM]

Specs mattered when they thought it was a powerhouse, now it isn't, so they don't. It's called having your cake and eating it.

Generalizations - they work to fit your agenda.

 

[KojiKnight]

marcan isn't just "some dude" - he's a hacker of many systems, reverse-engineer...er, and tech enthusiast, who likely knows more about the ins and outs of hardware than most programmers. He's also less biased than Retro Studios, in that he's not under NDAs and isn't tied to any specific company.

This. Marcan is a BIG name in hardware hacking. Probably the biggest "real" name in console hacking in it's entirety. I mean, the man used a pair of tweezers to hack the GCN mode of a Wii for christ's sake. McGuyver'ed that bitch.

 

[Durante]

From what I understand you dont need threads when you implement "Out out order execution"

So its either in order with SMT or its out of order without the need of SMT

Do I recall correctly that you are one of the posters making long "technical" posts about the Wii U and GPGPU?

If not, then let me explain to you why you are completely wrong: SMT is a technique with 2 primary goals: feeding all the execution units on a core, and bridging long stalls (in the order of 100s of cycles) of one thread by performing useful work in the other(s). There can be more than 2 SMT threads per core, e.g. the Sun Niagara had 8, and Power7 as well as the new Intel Xeon Phi have 4.

It's almost entirely orthogonal to out-of-order execution, which serves the purpose of mitigating delays caused by instruction scheduling dependencies and pipeline stalls.

all of amd's gpu offerings from the R7XXX line onward are "gpgpu". iwata's just parroting a bullet point. the REAL question is: how many GFLOPS will the gpu be able to spare? :teehee

Exactly.

 

[RurouniZel]

Shhhhh! You're ruining everyone's fun! How can we knee-jerk react to it's clock speed now?!?

 

[Lan_97]

I see some people don't know how much a pain in the ass drawing is on a capacitive (multi touch) screen. Very imprecise, and when one of your key selling points is drawing messages in miiverse... I'm fine with that. I especially can't think of many situations where multitouch would even be useful in games, especially when you have a full controller.

Multi-touch is a bad arguement, there are many GOOD reasons to hate on the wii U people should try instead.

Resistive is awful for anything that requires dragging or swiping with fingers. It feels terrible on the 3DS, and I always have to pull out a stylus to navigate/type with any consistency. I would gladly take a capacitive screen/stylus combo which would improve the user experience 99% of the time.

 

[LeleSocho]

I care more about what Retro Studios "thinks" than some dude named marcan/armchair neogaf developers.

Yes, let's trust guys paid and owned by nintendo to talk about a nintendo console... flawless logic.
Also do not trust hacker that knows in and out of the console, no-no they obviously want to talk bad about nintendo.

 

[Twenty7KVN]

But Marcan has basically confirmed that the CPU is on par with Xenon.

That means with better RAM and a better GPU, games will look better than current gen.

Not sure why people are convinced otherwise

He did?I don't recall him saying it's on par.I said don't judge it based on clocks.

 

[Haunted]

We're experiencing flat out shameful, incompetent design. Decade-old hardware in a primarily $350 box is not necessary or even particularly beneficial in order to secure an aggressive profit margin, and having power trade-offs with the 360/PS3 architectures ensures bad press and unhappy port-buyers from the beginning, when upgraded current gen ports were very much part of the launch strategy. Fils-Aime has to run laughably dishonest damage control on a daily basis as part of this catastrophic failure to produce a technologically viable system -- again, at such a premium price point.

No worries, though. I'm sure soccer moms worldwide, with their iPads and Nexus 7s sitting on the coffee table, will be enthralled by the unique selling point of a living room tethered, two hour battery life, PDA-era resistive touch screen tablet controller.

EvilLore's post is pretty funny considering he OP'd that system wars thread with the "keep it civil blah..".

What's the point of NeoGAF when you can't tell the truth anymore.

If you can't take a couple aggressively chosen adjectives to drive home underlying facts, GTFO.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Yes, let's trust guys paid and owned by nintendo to talk about a nintendo console... flawless logic.

Ummmm, I already clarified why I put "thinks" in quotes.

The art of reading, it's a wonderful art.

 

[darkistheway]

soccer moms worldwide

All 100 million of them. And their 250 million children.

 

[Cosmozone]

How did that work out for the Wii and third parties?

The only way you are not going to see a repeat of last gen (Wii/360/ps3) is if PS4/720 flop real hard and developers go back to just developing multiplatforms for 360/ps3/Wii-U. I honestly feel there is a chance for that happening depending on developer costs for next gen and the pricing of the next gen consoles and games. We will have to see on that one.

Like argued before numerous times, visual differences are harder to spot by each generation. Current gen games already look very good, graphics wise. Wii had no HD that's actually a pretty big step, but I could think the lacking online was also a decisive disadvantage over the HD twins in the long run. At the beginning, third parties just missed the boat, of course. I'm pretty sure most of them thought Wii would flop.

Edit: I'm actually indeed seeing a risk in 720/PS4 selling not as well as expected. People could just stay with 360. Eventually the big companies will be going the Apple route a bit, making the gaming console more of a status symbol.

 

[womp]

We're experiencing flat out shameful, incompetent design. Decade-old hardware in a primarily $350 box is not necessary or even particularly beneficial in order to secure an aggressive profit margin, and having power trade-offs with the 360/PS3 architectures ensures bad press and unhappy port-buyers from the beginning, when upgraded current gen ports were very much part of the launch strategy. Fils-Aime has to run laughably dishonest damage control on a daily basis as part of this catastrophic failure to produce a technologically viable system -- again, at such a premium price point.

No worries, though. I'm sure soccer moms worldwide, with their iPads and Nexus 7s sitting on the coffee table, will be enthralled by the unique selling point of a living room tethered, two hour battery life, PDA-era resistive touch screen tablet controller.

My five year old Mario loving son certainly will be when we open it on Christmas morning.

 

[HAL_Laboratory]

I am SHOCKED! (and appalled!)

Most people would be shocked. I played Street Fighter and drank some beers with someone very high up at Retro last week, a friend of mine, and the attitude about Wii U is pretty much completely perpendicular to what is conveyed in this thread. They really like it, and they're doing some very cool stuff with it. This person also worked on a big game from another studio a couple years back.

 

[Starwind]

See.. The thing his this.

1. You cannot compare the processor in a PC to the processor in a gaming console. The processors in PCs have to do way more tasks than those in consoles.

2. Just because the clock speed is lower doesn't make it garbage. That's like comparing a p4 with higher clock speeds to an i5 with lower clock speeds.

3. I have no doubt ninety will do great things with this machine, if we lose out on 3rd parties that sucks but.. Personally I have my PC for anything multiplat that's worthwhile if they choose not to take on the Wii u.

 

[Basileus777]

But Marcan has basically confirmed that the CPU is on par with Xenon.

Where did he do that? He said he doesn't know how they compare at the speeds they are clocked at.

 

[Osiris]

What's the point of NeoGAF when you can't tell the truth anymore.

LOL, is that ******?

edit: censored?, so I'll go with yes Osiris, why yes it is

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Most people would be shocked. I played Street Fighter and drank some beers with someone very high up at Retro last week, a friend of mine, and the attitude about Wii U is pretty much completely perpendicular to what is conveyed in this thread. They really like it, and they're doing some very cool stuff with it. This person also worked on a big game from another studio a couple years back.

Fuck you for knowing things.

 

[DragonSworne]

Where did he do that? He said he doesn't know how they compare at the speeds they are clocked at.

Where did he say that?

Marcan said Espresso wins big for instructions per clock when compared to Xenon.

Given it's weaker SIMD, they'd be on par.

 

[Cosmozone]

What's the point of NeoGAF when you can't tell the truth anymore.

Yeah, that's a great excuse. :-D But I'm not angry at him. You'll just have to do that childish rant from time to time.

 

[EloquentM]

Where did he do that? He said he doesn't know how they compare at the speeds they are clocked at.

He said its not much worse. There's a jpeg being posted on each page with posts from his twitter. I suggest you read it


Edit: also let's find Hal laboratory in Texas and get answers out of him for retro's new game.

 

[Haunted]

Yeah, that's a great excuse. :-D But I'm not angry at him. You'll just have to do that childish rant from time to time.

More people should take a page from the ghst playbook, if someone with the visibility of Evilore does it all the better.

 

[CambriaRising]

Most people would be shocked. I played Street Fighter and drank some beers with someone very high up at Retro last week, a friend of mine, and the attitude about Wii U is pretty much completely perpendicular to what is conveyed in this thread. They really like it, and they're doing some very cool stuff with it. This person also worked on a big game from another studio a couple years back.

Okay Shane Bettenhausen.

 

[Neuromancer]

Yep, $400 and it came with a regular ass controller that played games the same way as all the generations before it. What a deal.

I don't really see what that has to do with what I said. No doubt you can argue the Wii U is more innovative but how does that justify almost the same price as the 360 when it debuted 7 years ago?

 

[Twenty7KVN]

Most people would be shocked. I played Street Fighter and drank some beers with someone very high up at Retro last week, a friend of mine, and the attitude about Wii U is pretty much completely perpendicular to what is conveyed in this thread. They really like it, and they're doing some very cool stuff with it. This person also worked on a big game from another studio a couple years back.

Was that game a certain system exclusive that people hold in high regard?

 

[fallagin]

Most people would be shocked. I played Street Fighter and drank some beers with someone very high up at Retro last week, a friend of mine, and the attitude about Wii U is pretty much completely perpendicular to what is conveyed in this thread. They really like it, and they're doing some very cool stuff with it. This person also worked on a big game from another studio a couple years back.

I understand what you are saying, but retro does not have to port games from other systems.

 

[RurouniZel]

My five year old Mario loving son certainly will be when we open it on Christmas morning.

I feel so old now, when I was 5 my Christmas present was the NES.

Passing the torch to new generations, love it!

 

[LeleSocho]

Ummmm, I already clarified why I put "thinks" in quotes.

The art of reading, it's a wonderful art.

You are very easy to miss since you do not have an avatar
my point still stand though, it's stupid to not trust a person that probably have hacked the console and does a lot of reverse engineering

 

[grimshawish]

Most people would be shocked. I played Street Fighter and drank some beers with someone very high up at Retro last week, a friend of mine, and the attitude about Wii U is pretty much completely perpendicular to what is conveyed in this thread. They really like it, and they're doing some very cool stuff with it. This person also worked on a big game from another studio a couple years back.

I suspect once a team draws a diagram of the internals its pretty easy to get your head around.
Some of this thread seems more based on PCs than anything else as oppose to a system built to function around software made for it and it only.

 

[DragonSworne]

I understand what you are saying, but retro does not have to port games from other systems.

Retro has been hiring people from big name third parties.

I'd think those guys would know how WiiU compares the old systems.

 

[Basileus777]

He said its not much worse. There's a jpeg being posted on each page with posts from his twitter. I suggest you read it

You might want to take that advice yourself. He said you can't compare it clock per clock and use that to say it's much worse. And in another response, said "I don't know how it compares at the actual clock speeds." He made no definitive statement that the CPUs are equal at the speeds they are currently clocked and it seems he doesn't know for certain.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

You are very easy to miss since you do not have an avatar
my point still stand though, it's stupid to not trust a person that probably have hacked the console and does a lot of reverse engineering

Never said I didn't trust him, just saying it's raw numbers and he's not going to be putting them to use for the system.

 

[Bisnic]

My five year old Mario loving son certainly will be when we open it on Christmas morning.

Too bad he will have to wait at least one hour before playing any game.

 

[Ponn]

Like argued before numerous times, visual differences are harder to spot by each generation. Current gen games already look very good, graphics wise. Wii had no HD that's actually a pretty big step, but I could think the lacking online was also a decisive disadvantage over the HD twins in the long run. At the beginning, third parties just missed the boat, of course. I'm pretty sure most of them thought Wii would flop.

What are you even talking about? Were talking engines, it's not just downscaling graphics. It's obvious UE4 is being pushed as the go to engine for next gen, and to keep development costs down it will probably be true. Third parties aren't going to waste the time, money and effort to retool a game to run on Wii-U.

 

[LeleSocho]

My five year old Mario loving son certainly will be when we open it on Christmas morning.

You are an awful parent, how can you give him such a shitty console? :O :O :O

bad bad bad parent :O











:3

 

[RurouniZel]

Too bad he will have to wait at least one hour before playing any game.

Actually he can download the update in the background while playing Mario if he likes.

 

[big_erk]

My guess is Nintendo went with a highly efficient processor design that would put them on par with the Cell and Xenon, and married it with a decently capable GPU. I would hope that when this pairing is fully exploited we would see a nice bump in terms of graphical fidelity and gameplay fluidity.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Actually he can download the update in the background while playing Mario if he likes.

And miss out on Miiverse features!?

 

[StealthGoblin]

If anything, this proves that clock speed isn't all that matter, or else ports like AC3, COD or ME3 would run much much worse than the other versions.

But again, people only look at numbers.

Sure, it plays PS3/360 games quite well, but what happens when the PS4 and Nextbox come out with even more CPU/GPU intensive games? The Wii U ports of current gen games haven't been all that wonderful.

 

[Mxrz]

Christ. This thing should come with some kind of federally mandated warning label. I dont get how any developer could be okay with this.

 

[Lancehead]

More people should take a page from the ghst playbook, if someone with the visibility of Evilore does it all the better.

You mean employ biological and anatomical references? Because that's partly how his posts are so very effective.

 

[Drencrom]

We're experiencing flat out shameful, incompetent design. Decade-old hardware in a primarily $350 box is not necessary or even particularly beneficial in order to secure an aggressive profit margin, and having power trade-offs with the 360/PS3 architectures ensures bad press and unhappy port-buyers from the beginning, when upgraded current gen ports were very much part of the launch strategy. Fils-Aime has to run laughably dishonest damage control on a daily basis as part of this catastrophic failure to produce a technologically viable system -- again, at such a premium price point.

No worries, though. I'm sure soccer moms worldwide, with their iPads and Nexus 7s sitting on the coffee table, will be enthralled by the unique selling point of a living room tethered, two hour battery life, PDA-era resistive touch screen tablet controller.

 

[test_account]

I think it does, yeah. Hit me up with a PM and I could set you up with some Dundersalt after Christmas

I can buy it myself, but i cant recall to have seen it in maybe the last 15 years or so. I hardly buy any candy in these days though, so maybe that is why i cant recall to have see it. But thanks for the offer though, that is nice of you!

 

[Ponn]

Most people would be shocked. I played Street Fighter and drank some beers with someone very high up at Retro last week, a friend of mine, and the attitude about Wii U is pretty much completely perpendicular to what is conveyed in this thread. They really like it, and they're doing some very cool stuff with it. This person also worked on a big game from another studio a couple years back.

Why would I be shocked guys from Retro are happy with the Wii-U from developing ONLY on Wii? What exactly is the point you are trying to make?

 

[Haunted]

At this point, Nintendo hardware is the pill I have to swallow to get to play some of my favourite games.

 

[metalslimer]

Christ. This thing should come with some kind of federally mandated warning label. I dont get how any developer could be okay with this.

Yeah they should stick cancer labels on all the boxes to make sure people know the truth.

No worries, though. I'm sure soccer moms worldwide, with their iPads and Nexus 7s sitting on the coffee table, will be enthralled by the unique selling point of a living room tethered, two hour battery life, PDA-era resistive touch screen tablet controller.

O_O

 

[EloquentM]

Nvrmind

 

[ghst]

Most people would be shocked. I played Street Fighter and drank some beers with someone very high up at Retro last week, a friend of mine, and the attitude about Wii U is pretty much completely perpendicular to what is conveyed in this thread. They really like it, and they're doing some very cool stuff with it. This person also worked on a big game from another studio a couple years back.

that's not what my uncle said, and he should know.

 

[Mudkips]

My five year old Mario loving son certainly will be when we open it on Christmas morning.

If I were giving a Wii U as a gift I'd prep it first.

Unbox, hook up, charge gamepad, do initial setup, download and install updates for all games, etc., then box it all back up. Once they open the wrapping paper it's ready to go.
Otherwise it's 1 PM on Christmas day and your impatient child is complaining that his new $350 toy isn't working and he doesn't want to go see Grandma until he plays Mario etc.