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lttp: Bayonetta 2. The one game that makes me go "They did this on Wii U?"

LordOfChaos

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So I'm a dummy that for some reason was optimistic about getting a PS5 early and sold my PS4 ahead of launch. Still in Canada with no PS5 so far, and that's made me spend some time on my Wii U on the couch, where the system in total probably has under 200 hours on it and had some forgotten gems I didn't play much on it.

If you think about games that look good on the Wii U, a lot of them are Nintendo games with everything that comes with - usually bright colors and cartoony aesthetics, and very often small cube words, such as Treasure Tracker, 3D World, etc. That makes it easier to polish every corner of them and fit them in memory.

Looking at larger worlds like BoTW, they're also impressive, but you can see where corners were cut on the Wii U very readily, AF that fails a foot in front of you, low res textures and so on. Xenoblade Chronicles X is a huge world, but a somewhat flat looking one in a DX9 kinda way to me.

Having just played and finished Bayonetta 2 for the first time, this is just striking me a different way. Constant movement through worlds and levels that keep changing. Often with a world flying by as you're fighting, and even if it's not the most detailed, the constant motion. The targeted 60fps of it all, even if it often falters to 40. There were no textures that I noticed stuck out as bad compared to the rest in my playthrough. Materials have a sheen to them, metals and wet surfaces have a reflectance. Enemies spew fire effects and particles are all over the screen. You jump through portals to completely different looking levels with well hidden load times, never feels like you're breaking the action (except when you to to the shop in hell).

This all just hit different to me. Four years after the Wii U's life ended and four more years before that from when it started, I'm sitting here going "Woah, it could do that?".

Even with its 720p presentation and probably no antialiasing, there was almost nothing I really faulted in the presentation from start to finish. It looked great and fluid and colorful in motion on my 4K TV.

Knowing this is a very random comparison, but the visual quality start to finish was far more consistent than a newer game like FF7R, though that was a particularly bad example with some textures that just never load in their high res assets. But still to say, impressive from a 2014 game on a console less powerful than an undocked Switch, 1GB of RAM for games to use, three 1.2GHz PowerPC 750 cores, and a 172Gflop Radeon 4000 series GPU.

The first game was ok but they really mastered the controls and UI with the second game, looks and plays much better.

Can't wait for Bayo 3 now...I wonder why we haven't heard much about it, been 3 years since this

 
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LordOfChaos

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Nintendo are super greedy for not making this go multiplatform already.

It's 2020, you sick fucks!

Imagine Bayo 3 on 9th gen and PC tho

 

#Phonepunk#

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Yeah while I prefer the story in the first game I think the second is better in every other way.
 
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A fantastic masterpiece of a game. I really like the first one as well.

I think think the first game does some things better. I think it's a little paced better for one and the final boss was a lot better.

Hopefully we get the best of both with 3
I preferred the pace of Bayo2 myself. Bayo 1 had certain things that really killed the momentum like the motorcycle level that goes on wayyyyyy too long, but ya I agree with the story part. The narrative in Bayo2 was fine, but it didn't stick the landing the same way the first game did.

I'm hoping we get an update on the status of Bayo3 sometime soon, feels like they announced the game way too early.
 

LordOfChaos

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I preferred the pace of Bayo2 myself. Bayo 1 had certain things that really killed the momentum like the motorcycle level that goes on wayyyyyy too long, but ya I agree with the story part. The narrative in Bayo2 was fine, but it didn't stick the landing the same way the first game did.

I'm hoping we get an update on the status of Bayo3 sometime soon, feels like they announced the game way too early.

Lol I just played that part in 1, had me wondering if I was doing something wrong or it really just went on for too long

2 doesn't take its story seriously and pros and cons, but I just found I'm so much more fluid in 2, and some of the menu systems in 1 are clunky and hard to figure out. 2 perfected the combat formula, but I'm not finished the story of 1 yet.
 

NahaNago

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Still haven't played the second one I bought I believe both on wii u. Played the first , really enjoyed it but I felt like moving on to something else afterwards. I guess I'll play it since I did end up buying it again on switch.

or did I play bayonetta 1 ` on switch , I don't remember, been too long.
 
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Labolas

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I still think Bayo 1 is a better game where it matters most but 2 is definitely a good game. Hell, it was my goty in 2014. There were fun moments and QOL changes to it where casuals would find more pleasing to play.

The space harrier chapter was way more egregious than the motorcycle chapter, which both were done better in 2.
 

radewagon

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Love Bayonetta 2. Was never surprised with what it was able to do on a WiiU. Seemed well within my expectations for the console.
 

Lethal01

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Bayonetta 2 is one of my favorite games but BoTW absolutely blows it away on a technical level.
 

Sub Boss

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Platinum Games pushed that Wii U as best as they could.

Bayo 3 has some development trouble, with Bayo 2 director suddendly leaving and Kamiya admitting its taking longer than intented, howerever its still on track

my theory is that Nintendo is waiting to showcase it along with the Switch Pro, Bayonetta 3 will push the graphics on Switch and so like Astral Chain its running at 30fps on Switch, because everybody will cry otherwise Switch Pro will be there for 60fps option
 

Sub Boss

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Bayonetta 2 is one of my favorite games but BoTW absolutely blows it away on a technical level.
BotW is on another level compared to rest of Wii U games, its even using a special mode to use 1.5GB of RAM no other Wii U game does that (and of course mandatory install)
Bayonetta2 is still impressive though 👌
 

LordOfChaos

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Bayonetta 2 is one of my favorite games but BoTW absolutely blows it away on a technical level.

I agree with that. But on the Wii U you can also tell BoTW is like too little butter spread across too much toast. Textures a foot away from you are blurred under a lack of AF, foliage spawns a few feet around you, etc. Super impressive that all these modern systems run on the Wii U, but you can see where compromises were made, where with Bayo 2 from start to finish nothing stood out to me in terms of the odd bad texture, filtering, pop-in, etc.

It's not fair to compare them of course, in Bayonetta you move from stage to stage so the pipeline for loading things in is set, but the visual impact of the whole game stays impressive in the end.


BotW is on another level compared to rest of Wii U games, its even using a special mode to use 1.5GB of RAM no other Wii U game does that (and of course mandatory install)
Bayonetta2 is still impressive though 👌


Actually annoys me that they didn't allow that for other studios and only ever did it once, really. I could take a few seconds to resume back to the game after going to the Wii U menu in exchange for the system giving 50% more RAM to games.

Was that number actually confirmed, is it only known that it takes more than the standard 1 because it has to boot part out of RAM when you access the Wii U menu, unlike other games?
 
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DESTROYA

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Bubu..but Nintendo just makes kiddy games .:messenger_sunglasses:

All kidding aside and the shit show we see weekly in threads saying that the Switch has no games , this WiiU game is fantastic and one we see port beggers want cross platform.
But who wants to play kiddy Nintendo games right ?
 

Sub Boss

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I agree with that. But on the Wii U you can also tell BoTW is like too little butter spread across too much toast. Textures a foot away from you are blurred under a lack of AF, foliage spawns a few feet around you, etc. Super impressive that all these modern systems run on the Wii U, but you can see where compromises were made, where with Bayo 2 from start to finish nothing stood out to me in terms of the odd bad texture, filtering, pop-in, etc.

It's not fair to compare them of course, in Bayonetta you move from stage to stage so the pipeline for loading things in is set, but the visual impact of the whole game stays impressive in the end.





Actually annoys me that they didn't allow that for other studios and only ever did it once, really. I could take a few seconds to resume back to the game after going to the Wii U menu in exchange for the system giving 50% more RAM to games.

Was that number actually confirmed, is it only known that it takes more than the standard 1 because it has to boot part out of RAM when you access the Wii U menu, unlike other games?
tbf no other Wii U game needed more RAM, at that point third parties had abandoned the system and the specs just are too weaksauce to take advantage of 1.5GB anyways, it was designed for 1 and barely stronger than a PS3. But obviously Nintendo pushed it to its limits and BotW is still one of the most impressive Switch games years later.
They did the same trick again only once on 3DS with Smash Bros 🤭

I heard 1.5GB around on one of ERAs tech threads, but obv no actual confirmation, would make sense though
 

LordOfChaos

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tbf no other Wii U game needed more RAM, at that point third parties had abandoned the system and the specs just are too weaksauce to take advantage of 1.5GB anyways, it was designed for 1 and barely stronger than a PS3. But obviously Nintendo pushed it to its limits and BotW is still one of the most impressive Switch games years later.
They did the same trick again only once on 3DS with Smash Bros 🤭

I heard 1.5GB around on one of ERAs tech threads, but obv no actual confirmation, would make sense though

That's a big difference though, other systems add a few percent here and there as they go but 50% more RAM, imagine if they always allowed that from the start of the system, not just for one game at the very end when the Switch was already coming out. Developers will use what you give them, but it simply wasn't given early enough.

Not like it would have saved it alone...But it always seemed to me that they barely TRIED to save it. Drop the gamepad in year 1, sell it as the 199 Wii HD it should have been, plus the extra RAM as a bonus, that could have been something.
 
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StateofMajora

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The Wii U was more capable than it appeared. Bayonetta 2 was so good looking, that it honestly is a contender for most impressive switch game as well as Wii U, given that it runs much smoother on switch.

Why do you think the resolution is still 720p on it as well as pikmin (which switch honestly has the inferior version in that case) for the switch ports? They pushed the Wii U hard ; so hard that a system with twice or more gpu power couldn’t offer better visuals without significant effort. The port teams must not have had too many resources.

This is another reason I don’t think we’ve seen bayonetta 3 yet ; it’s either struggling in performance or they’re having a hard time topping bay 2’s visuals.
 
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StateofMajora

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That's a big difference though, other systems add a few percent here and there as they go but 50% more RAM, imagine if they always allowed that from the start of the system, not just for one game at the very end when the Switch was already coming out. Developers will use what you give them, but it simply wasn't given early enough.
I think that maybe the scope of certain games could’ve been *improved* with that extra ram, but not visuals. Its cpu was the worst limiter, followed by gpu and memory bandwidth. It had plenty of memory given the rest of the specification.
 

LordOfChaos

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The Wii U was more capable than it appeared. Bayonetta 2 was so good looking, that it honestly is a contender for most impressive switch game as well as Wii U, given that it runs much smoother on switch.

Why do you think the resolution is still 720p on it as well as pikmin (which switch honestly has the inferior version in that case) for the switch ports? They pushed the Wii U hard ; so hard that a system with twice or more gpu power couldn’t offer better visuals without significant effort. The port teams must not have had too many resources.

This is another reason I don’t think we’ve seen bayonetta 3 yet ; it’s either struggling in performance or they’re having a hard time topping bay 2’s visuals.


Well the odd bit is that it runs the same docked or undocked, no difference in filters, resolution, or any IQ. I think they merely didn't spend the extra effort for a higher resolution docked mode, as just about everything else can do that.
 

StateofMajora

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Well the odd bit is that it runs the same docked or undocked, no difference in filters, resolution, or any IQ. I think they merely didn't spend the extra effort for a higher resolution docked mode, as just about everything else can do that.
Keep in mind that switch’s memory bandwidth might actually be inferior in certain applications to Wii U’s setup with 32mb eDRAM. Perhaps Nvidia’s color compression can’t close the gap completely.

Mario kart 8 doesn’t push the Wii U like bay 2.
 
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Sub Boss

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Well the odd bit is that it runs the same docked or undocked, no difference in filters, resolution, or any IQ. I think they merely didn't spend the extra effort for a higher resolution docked mode, as just about everything else can do that.
They focused their limited resources on optimising the framerate, undocked is closer to Wii U performance than 60fps, while docked mostly hits the target they made the right choice imo
 
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Bragr

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What bugs me a bit, is how Bayo 1 was criticized by a few as being too hard, so they nerfed Bayo 2 to the extreme. But both games are great, although I completely disagree with the graphical part of your argument, Bayo 2 is not a great looking game. It's spectacular and creative with all the madness that goes down, but almost all of the environment is extremely bare-bones and simplistic, apart from the characters it's nothing to write home about. It reminds me of Nier: Automata's environment.
 

LordOfChaos

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What bugs me a bit, is how Bayo 1 was criticized by a few as being too hard, so they nerfed Bayo 2 to the extreme. But both games are great, although I completely disagree with the graphical part of your argument, Bayo 2 is not a great looking game. It's spectacular and creative with all the madness that goes down, but almost all of the environment is extremely bare-bones and simplistic, apart from the characters it's nothing to write home about. It reminds me of Nier: Automata's environment.

I can see where they used simplistic environments and I'm not closed to disagreement, but it's everything together that seals the deal for me. It's the carnage with multiple enemies and flying particle effects in one scene while swiftly flying through an environment into another level with a completely different environment while feeling mostly fluid trying to target 60fps.

Most impressive in the world, no, absolutely not even by 2014 standards, but there's really nothing else like it on the Wii U specifically. Looks way better than 1, and that had many more breaks in the action with long obviously hidden loading screens (angel attack etc).

Take the very intro where you're fighting on top of a fighter jet that's tumbling through a city. Obviously you can see that the assets are all very 7th gen, but for my money there's nothing else like it on Wii U.

 
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LordOfChaos

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Just finished Bayo 1 now...I kind of did the shotgun order, first half of 1, then wanted to see what the Wii U could do stretched a bit more and skipped to 2 and finished it all together, then back to 1 lol.

I do agree the story and final boss were more compelling in 1. Bayo was always irreverent but 2's story didn't take itself seriously even more, but that's its own kind of fun too.

Here's hoping 3 is a blend of the best of all worlds, a bit deeper of a story than 2, but with the perfected controls and gameplay taken even further. I would have been curious to see what they could have done if the Switch wasn't the target but an 8th/9th gen stationary console instead.
 

KingT731

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See this is one of those "I see exactly how they did it" moments because the framerate is atrocious lol
 
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Bayo2 is dope as fuck, because Platinum Games makes dope as fuck games.

PLayed it for a while until I discovered the jump+kick (stiletto?) move the consistently lift enemies in the air, then it truly opened up.
 

NeoIkaruGAF

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That’s basically how the whole goddamn Internet went when they revealed it.

Bayo 2’s WiiU exclusive may have been the most incendiary video game-related news of the decade, lol.
GAF’s meltdown was the stuff of legend.
 

LordOfChaos

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See this is one of those "I see exactly how they did it" moments because the framerate is atrocious lol

It doesn't nearly lock 60, but 40-60 is still more fluid than it having been 30. The only time I found myself fighting the framerate was in the first game actually, particularly the final boss.

Again not the most impressive game technically even for 2014, but there's nothing that quite pulls the total effect on the Wii U specifically imo.
 

KingT731

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It doesn't nearly lock 60, but 40-60 is still more fluid than it having been 30. The only time I found myself fighting the framerate was in the first game actually, particularly the final boss.

Again not the most impressive game technically even for 2014, but there's nothing that quite pulls the total effect on the Wii U specifically imo.
It's bad (framerate) from start to finish. Very noticeable but it's not like it's the PS3 version of B1 LOL. A lot of sacrifices were made for that 60fps cap.
 

Vitacat

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I sincerely applaud the developers keeping the spirits and making of the best games ever knowing it would release on one of the worst consoles ever.
WiiU was a nice console actually. It was quite enjoyable. Maybe you mean worst based on sales.
 
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