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Halo |OT13|
- Thread starter kylej
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Digital Limit
Member
Is that his gamertag? Nillapuddin? I want to download these.
Oh wow please don't tell me thats true.
I think the HUD indicators are a fantastic idea, but coupling them with random ordnance would only frustrate new players. Basically it helps them at first, but they get frustrated later.
"Oh neat a sniper spawned over here, I guess this is where the sniper spawns"
2 minutes later
"Wait, how come rockets spawned over there? I thought the sniper spawns here? Hmm... maybe next weapon spawn"
2 minutes later
"Why did needlers spawn in the sniper spawn? I want a sniper! Maybe it only spawns here once per game"
next game, same map
"What the fuck there wasn't even a sniper spawn in this game!?"
And pray to the Halo gods they didn't really want to matches to be decided at the last second as justification for global ordnance. RIP Halo indeed.
NullPointer
Member
Better players still win.
But the philosophy is one that throws a bone on the field - and this is either something the losing team can take advantage of to recapture some initiative, or its something the dominant team acquires to finish things off.
I'll see if I can grab the quote tonight. I'm paraphrasing, but its in the guide. Its the main reason behind Regicide being the playlist they wanted players to start with. That funky scoring is completely by design.
Well see, this here isn't what a new player necessarily thinks. All they know for sure is that there is a sniper there now - and who knows if or when it will come back.
Part of the problem here is that multiplayer games don't take the time to properly train players. If they did, you wouldn't need these kinds of immediate systems. Instead they just feed players into a meat grinder, and that isn't the best way to start things.
Digital Limit
Member
That's not the argument, but I appreciate you building that straw man. Good times.
I think most everyone who isn't playing Halo for validation would agree that lowering its artificial barriers to entry makes it a better game. We want more people playing this thing, if not socially
lol), then because more people means more hoppers and more development monies hopefully making it a better game.Having some weapon spawn notifications is a good thing. Random weapon spawns help, too, but are less necessary in the big picture. More like a gametype that shouldn't be the base version of Slayer.
Poker Face
Member
Well then they pretty much failed in my case. The 10 people I went to the launch event with stopped playing after the first couple days.(Some only played for launch day) They never complained about power weapons in previous Halos (although they played like once a month)
The only thing they complained about in Halo 4 was "the ghost is so overpowered!" and the "the dmr killed me with one fucking bullet!!!" Then proceeded to go play Call of Duty.
HiredN00bs
Member
It's more like arguing that it's not as interesting to have an encounter decided by basic knowledge rather than tactics, positioning, timing, aiming, movement, etc. Knowing where Rockets spawn isn't an interesting or worthy skill to prop up.
I kind of like the new Weapondrop system, but I think its "worse" than the old one.
I think its worse because the random aspect takes away some of control that the developers had about the flow of the map and also makes it less "competetive".
I like it more than the old system because Im a casual player, in the evening I just sit down and start playing halo with some Xboxlive friends that are online at the same time (not always the same people mind you).
The Problem with the old system for me was that Im quite good at games and do play a ton of halo therefore my shooting isnt half bad, also I sometimes play with some hardcore mlg guys and I sometimes play with guys that just suck at the game.
When I was playing with the mlg guys I needed to pay attention to the spawntimes for the important weapons or else our team would be obliterated even if I knew how to shoot, I didnt do it because I thought it was fun or trilling to fight for these spawns but because the game forced me to if I didnt want to drag down my team.
When I was playing with my more casual friends I noticed that I would get frustrated about them not giving any attention to the spawns and us loosing for such reasons.
So for me the new system is a win win situation, I dont have to remember spawntimes and can concentrate on the more imo more trilling aspects of the game (the actual shooting, movement, etc.) when playing alone or with very good players and dont get frustrated when playing with more casual gamers.
Nonteless I see why people dont like it and I absolutely think that they are right when they say such a random method of deploying the weapons doesnt belong in a competetive game like halo.
Edit:
That holds true for many of my casual friends even after having played halo since halo 2 once or twice a week.
I think its worse because the random aspect takes away some of control that the developers had about the flow of the map and also makes it less "competetive".
I like it more than the old system because Im a casual player, in the evening I just sit down and start playing halo with some Xboxlive friends that are online at the same time (not always the same people mind you).
The Problem with the old system for me was that Im quite good at games and do play a ton of halo therefore my shooting isnt half bad, also I sometimes play with some hardcore mlg guys and I sometimes play with guys that just suck at the game.
When I was playing with the mlg guys I needed to pay attention to the spawntimes for the important weapons or else our team would be obliterated even if I knew how to shoot, I didnt do it because I thought it was fun or trilling to fight for these spawns but because the game forced me to if I didnt want to drag down my team.
When I was playing with my more casual friends I noticed that I would get frustrated about them not giving any attention to the spawns and us loosing for such reasons.
So for me the new system is a win win situation, I dont have to remember spawntimes and can concentrate on the more imo more trilling aspects of the game (the actual shooting, movement, etc.) when playing alone or with very good players and dont get frustrated when playing with more casual gamers.
Nonteless I see why people dont like it and I absolutely think that they are right when they say such a random method of deploying the weapons doesnt belong in a competetive game like halo.
Edit:
From my experience casual players dont wait for spawns, they will enjoy it if they stumble over a rocket but they wont go looking for it.
That holds true for many of my casual friends even after having played halo since halo 2 once or twice a week.
Good point. This supposed benefit for newer players probably lasts no longer than one or two games. They'll probably get very frustrated the moment they want to actually learn the maps and get better.
I guess 343 thought that the game will be more enjoyable for casuals if they lower the skill gap. Look at what happened. The game's population is shockingly low.
Nillapuddin626
I play SWAT 99% of the time, but when i DO happen to venture into Slayer, i like it.
I like that power weapon whores have had their crutch taken away and now have to rely on, you know, their actual ability to kill me.
its no coincidence my kill death ratio in Halo 4 is far better than it was in any other Halo. Im taking people on on a level field now.
map knowledge be damned. Can you kill me before i kill you? That's all that matters now.
my issues with Halo 4 MP lie with the back end, not front end.
NullPointer
Member
Digital Limit
Member
In its current form, I agree. The random spawns are confusing. If there are random supply drops, the game needs to communicate the randomness. Give players a heads up. Have a vocal notification.
I don't even know what to say to this. Someone else take over.
squidhands
Member
Are you implying that learning the maps and weapon timers are an artificial barrier? I've been skimming so I may have missed something.That's not the argument, but I appreciate you building that straw man. Good times.
I think most everyone who isn't playing Halo for validation would agree that lowering its artificial barriers to entry makes it a better game. We want more people playing this thing, if not socially
Since Infinity Slayer is pretty much the direct descendant of Invasion Slayer / Invasion Skirmish, maybe they should have had the random drops be things you had to acquire. IE, control the area, then hold a button on the drop point or stand in a hill to acquire the weapon, with the weapon that it's going to be rotating, so you could trash the spawn and wait for a different weapon, or take it, hold the area, and get it again. Alongside fixed weapon spawns.
This way you could still have your weapons drop and have the rotation aspect but still have weapon loops.
I dunno, just thinking of stuff that would work within their system.
This way you could still have your weapons drop and have the rotation aspect but still have weapon loops.
I dunno, just thinking of stuff that would work within their system.
Ok after this post I have to take a break. Good, seems like people really like it or prefer it, good Job 343.
Would there be another game that would scratch my Halo itch, has a decent population and relys on arena shooter gameplay, please let me know it.
I too want a Halo-themed visual frontend for a reaction time tester
I'm not arguing that the two systems would be identical or anything, but here was my experience with the Invasion Slayer style gametypes. The territory would be taken and the countdown would begin, that's fine. Then, as soon as the countdown started, half a dozen people would shove their way to the center holding X or RB or whatever in hopes of being the lucky winner of a power weapon. I don't ever want that experience to return, and I think advertising weapon spawns ahead of time could encourage that if they're not very careful about it.
I don't think that the people that benefit from this would understand the system (or changes) or even post on a message board
Why didn't they just copy Gears 3? Gears 3 you use the left bumper to highlight power weapon locations on the map. Random ordnance is a stupid solution to this problem
YourExWife
Member
I shit you not this is almost exactly what I was going to say.
GET OUT OF MY HEAD DAMMIT!
Halo 4/Reach/3 is the closest you will get to what you want.
Those kind of games are not in high demand atm.
NullPointer
Member
He's mostly right. Its a different game though. Map knowledge still helps, but not as much.
I'm sure its extra maddening that Halo 4 could scratch this itch, with some changes made. So close, and yet so far away.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
That's a cool idea, but Halo 4's controls are already short on buttons as it is. Guess we could get rid of armor abilities and sprint!
Edit : lol vv
HiredN00bs
Member
Oh please. Going from advertising weapon spawns to that is slippier than Slippy the Frog sliding down a freezing Slip'n'Slide.
This is why I refused to engage with you over this. I know Kyle and I aren't the only ones who read what he posted and then when anyone disagrees with you you cut them down immediately.
Yes!
That's what bugs me the most. When the "problem" is actually very easily fixed and instead they add some convoluted mechanic. Is the weapon too effective at long range? Okay, then give it a 2x scope and reduce the aim assist range. Nope. BR spread.
The logical endpoint of this style of design is for map knowledge to be a non-factor, correct? That was rhetorical, by the way.
Anyway, I'm petitioning 343 to, as a way to improve the game's design as well as cut costs, only use procedurally generated maps for multiplayer (with a handful of "tilesets" for variety) in conjuction with a tweaked Global Ordinance system in order to create the most dynamic Halo experience yet.
NullPointer
Member
Rhetorical sure, but certain areas on the map are better ground to hold or to advance or to make best use of your weaponry/AA, so map control and knowledge is still important. Its just a different set of decisions at work. More tactics, less strategy, which is why people feel it focuses more on the moment to moment combat.
I'm sure the guys at 343 didn't want to make it seem like they were copying another game.
*cough*
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
The entire ordnance system (personal and global both) is my #1 complaint about the game.
2. Armor Abilities
3. Too many heavy vehicles in matchmaking
4. Instant Respawn
5. Bad Maps
6. Sprint
7. Bad UI
There's probably something I'm missing there, heh.
Agree with everything, besides point 5. The maps are fantastic, the problem is that everything gameplay wise ruins them.
thezerofire
Banned
still better than not knowing where rockets spawn and hoping you get lucky. maybe global ordinance would work better if everyone was shown where something was spawning like 10 seconds before it spawned, so they could actually go and try and set up for it and fight for it
oh wait, that's a perk, nevermind
bobs...onGaf
Member
Kittens you should get the maps considering they are free. Then play with us.
Or we can just go play Halo 3.
Doogington
Member
And lack of availability of the gametypes.
xxjuicesxx
Member
Halo 6:
You spawn on a random map that was made by a bunch of random tiles, on a random team (there are now 5 teams playing against each other at once in Halo 6) you spawn with a random weapon with a random weapon perk with a random AA and piece of equipment along with a random perk. You then have to deal with randomly falling pieces of battle debris, random sentient AI bots, random flood enemies, all weapons spawn randomly on the map. Objectives are static but only for a random amount of time and then move to a random new spot on the map. Also the objectives randomly switch to different objectives after a random amount of time.
The game is extremely chaotic and allows for the most dynamic experience supporting an unheard of level of map movement, casual protection, and allowing for even more waypoint moderators to be hired by 343 industries.
You spawn on a random map that was made by a bunch of random tiles, on a random team (there are now 5 teams playing against each other at once in Halo 6) you spawn with a random weapon with a random weapon perk with a random AA and piece of equipment along with a random perk. You then have to deal with randomly falling pieces of battle debris, random sentient AI bots, random flood enemies, all weapons spawn randomly on the map. Objectives are static but only for a random amount of time and then move to a random new spot on the map. Also the objectives randomly switch to different objectives after a random amount of time.
The game is extremely chaotic and allows for the most dynamic experience supporting an unheard of level of map movement, casual protection, and allowing for even more waypoint moderators to be hired by 343 industries.
Link to preorder?
Fantastic? I wouldn't go that far. They're passable for the most part. Haven is legitimately great. Adrift is slowly turning into Gemini 2.0 in terms of camping, Complex has no business being in half the playlists it's in (lol CTF) and is generally mediocre, Abandon is good to awful depending on the gametype (lol CTF), Exile looked promising but favors red team heavily (blue is downhill, has a crappy base, is farther from tank and banshee which are inexplicably in matchmaking along with Gauss) and so is unsuitable for just about every objective gametype in the game, Longbow has huge potential that is totally wasted in everything but Dominion, Solace's asymmetry is a case of "how did they ruin such a promising map?", and Vortex is just bland. A little early to say for the DLC, but the more I play, the more I start to warm up to them.
Maybe it's the gametypes, which certainly play a big role in my enjoyment (or lack thereof), but I'm not too hot on any map in the game besides Haven.
So since Pioneer and Rogue clearly have the best armor mods, what's the next best? What should I do my next specialization in? Except Gunner because of its omgwtf ugly armor.
Thinking tracker because of the sexy Boltshot skin, but I want to consider function first.
Thinking tracker because of the sexy Boltshot skin, but I want to consider function first.
thezerofire
Banned
I might still have my copy, I could ship it out in a couple weeks if you'd like
Poker Face
Member
Engineer is the best one I've gotten so far. Since you can see where random ordnance drops are before everyone else.
But between the two probably rogue.
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