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Joe Biden Seeking Video Game Industry Input on Gun Violence

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=169112968

WASHINGTON (AP) — Looking for broader remedies to gun violence, Vice President Joe Biden is reaching out to the video game industry for ideas as the White House seeks to assemble proposals in response to last month's massacre at a Connecticut elementary school.

Biden is scheduled to meet with video game representatives Friday as the White House explores cultural factors that may contribute to violent behavior.

The vice president, who is leading a task force that will present recommendations to President Barack Obama on Tuesday, met with other representatives from the entertainment industry, including Comcast Corp. and the Motion Picture Association of America, on Thursday.

Friday's meeting comes a day after the National Rifle Association rejected Obama administration proposals to limit high-capacity ammunition magazines and dug in on its opposition to an assault weapons ban, which Obama has previously said he will propose to Congress. The NRA was one of the pro-gun rights groups that met with Biden during the day.

Keene, asked Friday if the NRA has enough support in Congress to fend off legislation to ban sales of assault weapons, indicated it does. "I do not think that there's going to be a ban on so-called assault weapons passed by the Congress," he said on NBC's "Today."

In previewing the meeting with the video game industry, Biden recalled how the late Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan of New York lamented during crime bill negotiations in the 1980s that the country was "defining deviancy down."

It's unclear what, if anything, the administration is prepared to recommend on how to address the depiction of violence in the media.

White House press secretary Jay Carney last month suggested that not all measures require government intervention.

"It is certainly the case that we in Washington have the potential, anyway, to help elevate issues that are of concern, elevate issues that contribute to the scourge of gun violence in this country, and that has been the case in the past, and it certainly could be in the future," Carney said then.

In a statement, a half dozen entertainment groups, including the Motion Picture Association of America, said they "look forward to doing our part to seek meaningful solutions."

On gun control, however, the Obama administration is assembling proposals to curb gun violence that would include a ban on sales of assault weapons, limits on high-capacity ammunition magazines and universal background checks for gun buyers.

"The vice president made it clear, made it explicitly clear, that the president had already made up his mind on those issues," Keene said after the meeting. "We made it clear that we disagree with them."

Opposition from the well-funded and politically powerful NRA underscores the challenges that await the White House if it seeks congressional approval for limiting guns and ammunition. Obama can use his executive powers to act alone on some gun measures, but his options on the proposals opposed by the NRA are limited without Congress' cooperation.

Obama has pushed reducing gun violence to the top of his domestic agenda following last month's mass shooting at an elementary school in Newtown, Conn., where a gunman slaughtered 20 children and six adults before killing himself. The president put Biden in charge of an administration task force and set a late January deadline for proposals.

"I committed to him I'd have these recommendations to him by Tuesday," Biden said Thursday, during a separate White House meeting with sportsmen and wildlife groups. "It doesn't mean it's the end of the discussion, but the public wants us to act."

The vice president later met privately with the NRA and other gun-owner groups for more than 90 minutes. Participants in the meeting described it as an open and frank discussion, but one that yielded little movement from either side on long-held positions.

Keane told NBC there is a fundamental disagreement over what would actually make a difference in curbing gun violence.

Richard Feldman, the president of the Independent Firearm Owners Association, said all were in agreement on a need to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and the mentally ill. But when the conversation turned to broad restrictions on high-capacity magazines and assault weapons, Feldman said Biden suggested the president had already made up his mind to seek a ban.

"Is there wiggle room and give?" Feldman said. "I don't know."

White House officials said the vice president didn't expect to win over the NRA and other gun groups on those key issues. But the administration was hoping to soften their opposition in order to rally support from pro-gun lawmakers on Capitol Hill.

Biden's proposals are also expected to include recommendations to address mental health care and violence on television, in movies and video games. Those issues have wide support from gun-rights groups and pro-gun lawmakers.

As the meetings took place in Washington, a student was shot and wounded at a rural California high school and another student was taken into custody.

During his meeting with sporting and wildlife groups, Biden said that while no recommendations would eliminate all future shootings, "there has got to be some common ground, to not solve every problem but diminish the probability that our children are at risk in their schools and diminish the probability that firearms will be used in violent behavior in our society."

Several Cabinet members have also taken on an active role in Biden's gun violence task force, including Attorney General Eric Holder. He met Thursday with Wal-Mart, the nation's largest firearms seller, along with other retailers such as Bass Pro Shops and Dick's Sporting Goods.

The president hopes to announce his administration's next steps to tackle gun violence shortly after he is sworn in for a second term. He has pledged to push for new measures in his State of the Union address.

It'll probably lead to nothing, but it'll be interesting to see how much ,if any, effect this could have on future proposed laws this year.
 
I think it is reasonable to have the industry sit down and talk about the matter. I'd much rather have a seat at the table than to be the scapegoat.
 
The article doesn't exactly mention whom Biden is meeting with.

gvhirbiyxf.gif
 

RPGCrazied

Member
They aren't. It was a mentally unstable person with the easy access of military style weapons. Parents fault for not getting him help. Games and media had nothing to do with it. They need to talk to gun manufactures first.
 
my thoughts exactly, there is no connection with gun violence and video games in the first place so why do you need to consult games devs for there opinion?

And now the industry has the opportunity to show those studies to Joe Biden. it will help to balance out the nut jobs and gun lobby who will look to use media as a scapegoat for the issue.
 

FGMPR

Banned
Yeah, except that playing with hotwheels cars isn't simulating a purposely deadly activity. Its kind of a big point to miss.

I don't know if games have any effect on gun violence, but it has to worth exploring. Saying that, placing pressure on the gaming industry to change the products it outputs without making this (http://www.walmart.com/cp/Guns-Rifles-Ammunition/1088608) a thing of the past would be beyond absurd.
 
Yeah, except that playing with hotwheels cars isn't simulating a purposely deadly activity. Its kind of a big point to miss.

Nor do Hot Wheels give you a reward for shooting someone in the head.

(not saying games and violence have any link, just that the analogy is faulty)
 

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
It's sad this has to happen but at least the industry has a voice. The first amendment protects games anyway so it's not like there will be a ban or something. Honestly if this leads to more education about the ESRB rating system and parents stop buying 8 year old kids every big M rated title that comes out, it could be a good thing.
 

Aaron

Member
Yeah, except that playing with hotwheels cars isn't simulating a purposely deadly activity. Its kind of a big point to miss.
Playing an FPS has as much in common with shooting a real gun as playing with Hot Wheels is to driving. 'Simulation' is bullshit, and the recent shooters didn't play these kinds of games anyway, so it's completely pointless. It's just a distraction from the real issues YET AGAIN. So nothing will ever, ever be solved, and we'll go through this same circle jerk with the next inevitable shooting.
 
It's sad this has to happen but at least the industry has a voice. The first amendment protects games anyway so it's not like there will be a ban or something. Honestly if this leads to more education about the ESRB rating system and parents stop buying 8 year old kids every big M rated title that comes out, it could be a good thing.

This is a huge problem. I rented Black Ops 2 and played online one afternoon. It was a horrific experience. Wall to wall children screaming obscenities and slurs while getting audibly excited every time they shot someone.
 

Walshicus

Member
I don't think it's unreasonable for a government concerned that violence in media is so casually accepted to want to start a dialogue with industry figures on how to remedy that.

That said, gun-worship and the cultural glorification of violence are probably bigger problems than computer games.
 

patapuf

Member
Yeah, except that playing with hotwheels cars isn't simulating a purposely deadly activity. Its kind of a big point to miss.

I don't know if games have any effect on gun violence, but it has to worth exploring. Saying that, placing pressure on the gaming industry to change the products it outputs without making this (http://www.walmart.com/cp/Guns-Rifles-Ammunition/1088608) a thing of the past would be beyond absurd.

even if they aren't, enough people think they are. Talking about this, and maybe doing some explaining/educating, is certainly worthwhile. Shutting up every discussion imediately isn't going to change perception.
 

Interfectum

Member
Are they going to explore why the rest of the world plays these games too and they don't have near the gun violence as the U.S.?
 

Aaron

Member
Also, why is rape and violence against women so common in India? Must be all those rape games the kids over there are playing.
 

Alx

Member
I don't think the Hot Wheels example is 100% relevant, but it could be something to discuss too. You can't deny that in our culture, driving fast and taking risks is "cool" (that's why we like movies like Fast & Furious), and trying to be cool is the cause of many deaths on the road. Just like playing with guns is the cause of many accidents.
So discussing the education of the audience through the same media is a good thing, even if you need to find a better way to do it than "hey kids, don't do this at home".
 

SteveWD40

Member
Are they going to explore why the rest of the world plays these games too and they don't have near the gun violence as the U.S.?

You would hope, we play the same games in the UK and had 33 (?) gun deaths last year iirc, Japan fucking LIVE games (less FPS but some are still prett violent) and they don't have an issue either.

Lack of available mental health care (no insurance), access to guns and a media that celebrates mass killers and gives them a spotlight would get my vote as the cause.
 

Chuckpebble

Member
Perfect.


Oh my god. Where is this from?

More important question, can I drive my bone stock Toyota Corolla, complete with 2 child seats, through this thing?!?!

Also, the point of consulting hot wheels about auto safety is not a good analogy. Hot wheels don't have the stigma that video games do, regardless of the merit of said stigma. I know the chances are slim, but for all we know this could help clear up the fact that correlation is not causation and help to focus on the real problems.
 
Playing an FPS has as much in common with shooting a real gun as playing with Hot Wheels is to driving. 'Simulation' is bullshit, and the recent shooters didn't play these kinds of games anyway, so it's completely pointless. It's just a distraction from the real issues YET AGAIN. So nothing will ever, ever be solved, and we'll go through this same circle jerk with the next inevitable shooting.

Well put.

Are they going to explore why the rest of the world plays these games too and they don't have near the gun violence as the U.S.?

No, because if we used reason we wouldn't feel good, and all the phony politicians wouldn't be able to wear their used car salesmen smiles seriously. Witchhunts make society feel like it solved what caused the problem, at least until it happens again.
 

Jonboy

Member
One view from Gameasutra's Kris Gaft: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...istake_for_the_game_industry.php#.UPAeMYnjkVl

And a contrasting view from IGN's Casey Lynch: http://www.ign.com/blogs/kamicasey/...er-to-gamasturas-kris-graft-youre-dead-wrong/

They've been going back and forth on Twitter about it.

Casey Lynch ‏@lynchtacular
An Open Letter to @gamasutra 's @krisgraft - You're Dead Wrong http://go.ign.com/WuxyB0

Kris Graft ‏@krisgraft
I do appreciate the tone of @lynchtacular's IGN counter. I realize it's a polarizing issue, and he could've been a TOTAL DICKHEAD :)
 
i just don't see the link (and apparently not studies show any either). Video Games get a bad rap, but movies/tv can be just as bad.

You have to look at people as the main problem. Mental Health, etc.
 
Yeah, except that playing with hotwheels cars isn't simulating a purposely deadly activity. Its kind of a big point to miss.

I don't know if games have any effect on gun violence, but it has to worth exploring. Saying that, placing pressure on the gaming industry to change the products it outputs without making this (http://www.walmart.com/cp/Guns-Rifles-Ammunition/1088608) a thing of the past would be beyond absurd.

No it is not. MILLIONS of people in the US and abroad play video games. One of the best selling titles right now is First Person Shooter. But the evidence of violence we have seen so far have been from mentally unstable people and very few links to video games. The only connection is forced and unrealistic given the exposure of violent video games and movies have over more than a decade.
 

FGMPR

Banned
Playing an FPS has as much in common with shooting a real gun as playing with Hot Wheels is to driving. 'Simulation' is bullshit, and the recent shooters didn't play these kinds of games anyway, so it's completely pointless. It's just a distraction from the real issues YET AGAIN. So nothing will ever, ever be solved, and we'll go through this same circle jerk with the next inevitable shooting.


I'm just not prepared to dismiss any potential links so casually because quite frankly, I'm not knowledgeable enough to do so and take my own stance seriously. I want to know any potential links, even if it risks becoming a distraction to the central issue.
 

Burt

Member
Gamasutra had a pretty good article coming out against this the other day, basically arguing that by taking part in this talk people would be admitting that the games industry was part of the problem, therefore making them a de facto part of the problem. Can't say I disagree. Talking with Biden about this just gives the uninformed the impression that the video game industry is admitting culpability when it's been proven time and time again that there's no concrete link between violent games and actual violence. I understand that 'industry leaders' want to put the industry in a positive light and appear as wanting to solve the problem, but it's all just set up to backfire. The people that blame video games are never going to have their mind changed, especially by the people that make video games.
 

Dylan

Member
Hell, if Biden can convince developers to stop pumping out a plethora of violent FPS's then I see that as a win for everybody regardless if it has an impact on real-world violence.
 
There is something I wonder. I don't watch TV but I have been watching The Rockford Files on Netflix, it aired in the mid 70's. Every episode there is no shortage of gun fights. Do modern TV shows have as much gun play as older shows did?
 
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