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[frankie_baby]

Slightly irrelevant to the matter at hand but can't think of anywhere else to put this, its surely time for the USA (esrb) to tighten up its rating of modern realistic ultra violent shooters, as things stand they get an M rating so although an adult needs to be with them they can technically be bought by anybody, surely its time they came into line with most of the rest of the gaming world where (although it may get ignored quite often in some stores) officially games like this CAN NOT be bought by anyone under 18

 

[StUnNeR H2K]

ESRB ratings are there for a reason. How many parents are buying their elementary child a FPS with no clue what is actually in it. Yet some want to blame the industry for making mature games?

I feel this whole gun control issue has nothing to do with one thing, but a combination of things. One being parents inability to be parents, not saying every parent that buys a under 17 kid a mature game is being irresponsible, just some parents need to research things and actually have a relationship with their child so they know what is best for said child.

 

[Shaffield]

That Hot Wheels comment is fucking idiotic.
If Hot Wheels was constantly called out for being an influence on reckless driving, then or course it would make sense to talk to them about the problem.

There are a lot of people that say video games influence gun violence, so it is pretty damn important that they actually talk to people in the industry, rather than listen to all the assholes on television who call it out without any evidence. These people have a different side of the argument than what is normally said on the news, and the vice president wants to hear that argument.


He met with the NRA a couple days ago, which is a group that frequently blames the media, so it makes complete sense that he would then go and talk to the industries that the NRA blames to hear their positions.

 

[pargonta]

"there is no link between real life violence and fictional violence"
"knowing those truths..

how can you say that ?

people here are so deffensive of their hobby it's pathetic...

...there has been no causal link found in studies so far, so, i mean, yeah. i am in favor of continuing studies on the matter, but the answer right now is no. that's how science works i believe... the aggregate and relative scientific truth from studies is that, no, there is no causal link. the only way you can refute that is if you find a causal link. not being defensive... that's just the way scientific truth works.

 

[shinobi602]

Source: http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/16cpfg/that_about_sums_it_up/

Perfect.

 

[volturnus]

The guy sure is an asshole, but it's not like he can do anything. Your 1st Amendment would protect you(and us) from any attempt to censor games, right?

 

[Riposte]

While I don't think there is any convincing evidence right now that consumption of violent media causes or triggers violent behaviour, I do think that gaming has a real problem with violence nonetheless. One that starts with the fact that most gamers and people in the industry seem completely unwilling to even discuss the level of violence present in video gaming, and how dominant violent games are both commercially and critically. Yes, there are of course major exceptions, and film share the problem to a degree, but it's certainly worth having the discussion rather than making dismissive remarks and ignoring it yet again.

Why is it we so readily accept that a huge portion of the best selling and highest budgeted video games are incredibly violent, or that escalating the level and detail of violence ever further is a major selling point?

Why is this a "problem"? I mean putting taste aside.

 

[sflufan]

The guy sure is an asshole, but it's not like he can do anything. Your 1st Amendment would protect you(and us) from any attempt to censor games, right?

The Supreme Court of the United States ruled last year that video games are protected speech under the First Amendment.

It's a settled issue which is why there is absolutely no problem whatsoever with members of the ESA meeting with Biden.

And claiming that these meetings are solely about "gun control" is reductionist to the extreme. These meetings are intended to examine the "culture of violence" in the United States.

 

[Aaron]

I also think there's a mistake confusing presenting violence with glorifying it. The beginning of Black Ops II where that guy burns alive... there's no glory in that. If you watch that and thing 'I'd like to see someone burn up in real life' you have serious mental problems before games even entered the picture. I think that the more realistic these shooters become, the more the developers are pressing for a level of discomfort.

While multiplayer COD is more or less sanitized by the speed that it happens. You just don't have time to notice when another player dies. You shoot them a few times, and move on quick before you get it yourself. It's a game of tag, and no inspiration for a shooting spree.

And claiming that these meetings are solely about "gun control" is reductionist to the extreme. These meetings are intended to examine the "culture of violence" in the United States.

But why? This culture has never proven to have any connection to actual violence. It's driven by an assumption that has no basis in real facts or research.

So I assume they're meeting with gun manufacturers last?

If by last you mean never, then yes.

 

[Orca]

So I assume they're meeting with gun manufacturers last?

 

[HyperCubed4]

Why is this a "problem"? I mean putting taste aside.

It kind of stagnates creativity. Remember the pop that The Last of Us got when Joel shot that dude in the face? People enjoy violence. But to only make games where your primary function is to kill people/aliens/animals/other things hinders the medium a bit.

 

[jakonovski]

Gaf doth protest too much.

 

[JessicaPadkin]

There are posts in this thread saying that video games aren't the issue whatsoever, and are instead pointing to guns/the gun industry.

But what about video games that directly benefit the gun industry in some way? What about games that depict real gun models? Presumably gun manufacturers either take license fees in this case, or they see it as marketing; either way, it benefits them. I dunno... that for a start seems like something that warrants discussion.

 

[codecow]

It's a bit of an imposition but I'd agree to talk to Mr. Biden about gun violence from a game developer's perspective however not as a representative of EA or of the industry but as an individual who makes violent games with guns in them.

 

[vg260]

my thoughts exactly, there is no connection with gun violence and video games in the first place so why do you need to consult games devs for there opinion?

Seriously? You don't see why they might want to get insight and feedback from people who make games centered around gun-related action? Come on now.

I find it absurd that people reject the mere idea that we should dare to consider the possibility of video game gun violence having an effect on how we view or consider real-life gun violence, even in the slightest.

 

[Myz]

hmmm... seems legit. We have the best politics in the world... -_-

 

[frankie_baby]

There are posts in this thread saying that video games aren't the issue whatsoever, and are instead pointing to guns/the gun industry.

But what about video games that directly benefit the gun industry in some way? What about games that depict real gun models? Presumably gun manufacturers either take license fees in this case, or they see it as marketing; either way, it benefits them. I dunno... that for a start seems like something that warrants discussion.

This situation is quite disturbing, I'm not sure yet if I want to see 'real' guns banned from games but the should certainly be no financial deal either way (either as a licence fee or product placement fee) and any sort of co marketing deal is downright disgusting

 

[Myz]

Seriously? You don't see why they might want to get insight and feedback from people who make games centered around gun-related action? Come on now.

I find it absurd that people reject the mere idea that we should dare to consider the possibility of video game gun violence having an effect on how we view or consider real-life gun violence, even in the slightest.

Btw, that is why there are age restrictions on games. If people followed the age restrictions there wouldnt be an issue of whether or not kids see video game violence. Its when people take things too far and assume that every 7 year old child is out playing Grand Theft auto that we get our right to make art taken away.

 

[I H8 Memes]

They aren't. It was a mentally unstable person with the easy access of military style weapons. Parents fault for not getting him help. Games and media had nothing to do with it. They need to talk to gun manufactures first.

Then what was the cause of the Tuscon shooting and Aurora shooting? Both of those men were mentally competent.

 

[Beaulieu]

Seriously? You don't see why they might want to get insight and feedback from people who make games centered around gun-related action? Come on now.

I find it absurd that people reject the mere idea that we should dare to consider the possibility of video game gun violence having an effect on how we view or consider real-life gun violence, even in the slightest.

This is neogaf man.
People in here hate about every videogame that comes out but they wont accept society criticism of their golden hobby

 

[Myz]

Then what was the cause of the Tuscon shooting and Aurora shooting? Both of those men were mentally competent.

If you gun down innocent people you arent mentally competent.

 

[sflufan]

If you gun down innocent people you arent mentally competent.

That's not the standard used to judge mental competency.

 

[Myz]

That's not the standard used to judge mental competency.

I realize legally that isnt the standard. But legally there are many f'd up things wrong with our country.

 

[RumblingRosco]

Haven't there been several studies that provide evidence that playing violent video games can encourage desensitization towards violence? Desensitization is a big leap from actually going out and shooting people, but I at least thought there was evidence suggesting the desensitization portion? Anyone know off the top of their head?

 

[dsmoke1986]

These games are too violent, plain and simple...There needs to be more regulation...

Whether it's COD, AC3, or any fighting game...Stuff is too violent now, the only games I'm really comfortable playing around my kid, are sports games or platformers.

 

[Dark Octave]

These games are too violent, plain and simple...There needs to be more regulation...

Whether it's COD, AC3, or any fighting game...Stuff is too violent now, the only games I'm really comfortable playing around my kid, are sports games or platformers.

Sucks to be you. We have a ratings board. It's in use. What more do you want?

Teach your kids right from wrong, real from fantasy and they should be ok.

 

[Myz]

These games are too violent, plain and simple...There needs to be more regulation...

Whether it's COD, AC3, or any fighting game...Stuff is too violent now, the only games I'm really comfortable playing around my kid, are sports games or platformers.

Why should everyone have to be regulated because you dont feel comfortable playing a game around your kid though. Again, there are certain games you should be able to play alone without children in the room, and games everyone can enjoy. Should we now say that all movies have to be either G or PG? where do you draw the line. Let people make that decision themselves and keep the government out of it.

 

[Myz]

Sucks to be you. We have a ratings board. It's in use. What more do you want?

Teach your kids right from wrong, real from fantasy and they should be ok.

Completely agreed

 

[sflufan]

These games are too violent, plain and simple...There needs to be more regulation...

Guess what's NOT going to happen in the US because SCOTUS ruled against it?

Now, it's the responsibility of the industry to prove its "maturity" be engaging stakeholders in a responsible manner on how it can better SELF-regulate in a market-based manner.

 

[Myz]

Guess what's NOT going to happen in the US because SCOTUS ruled against it?

Now, it's the responsibility of the industry to prove its "maturity" be engaging stakeholders in a responsible manner on how it can better SELF-regulate in a market-based manner.

Again, completely agreed

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

hopefully they can institute some form of game ratings that parents can look on the box and see what the content of the game contains. Then parents will know they should not buy the games for their kids until they are the appropriate age (or an adult, and if they still dont know right from wrong, the parents have failed).

 

[Maastricht]

Sucks to be you. We have a ratings board. It's in use. What more do you want?

Teach your kids right from wrong, real from fantasy and they should be ok.

Rating board that thinks sex, nudity and profanity (up till recently) are more dangerous to the young than violence and guns? I don't necessarily think that videogames will put normal people up to doing crazy stuff, but I am not 100% sure about crazy people. Also, just as there are more guns in the US than anywhere else, they are also more present in U.S. culture and media consumption.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Then what was the cause of the Tuscon shooting and Aurora shooting? Both of those men were mentally competent.

You cant be serious.

 

[FinFan]

When did they decide to let comic books and rock-n-roll off the hook? Somebody get Ozzy on the line.

\m/

 

[Benjamin_MFF]

I think that this a great opportunity to talk about games as a form of art. We get to tell people what our industry is about and why it creates the content it does. This should be seen as an open house to show how gaming is part of our culture and how it has evoleved to become so socially revelant that the white house is asking about it. We should send our best and brightest, get staff from the various esa members to show what gaming means to them and why they create, There is large list:

345 Games
505 Games
Capcom USA, Inc.
Deep Silver
DeNA
Disney Interactive Studios, Inc.
Electronic Arts
Epic Games, Inc.
gloops International Inc.
GREE International, Inc.
Konami Digital Entertainment
LEVEL-5 Inc.
Little Orbit
Mad Catz Interactive, Inc.
Microsoft Corporation
Namco Bandai Games America Inc.
Natsume Inc.
NetDragon Websoft Inc.



Nexon America, Inc.
Nintendo of America Inc.
NVIDIA
Perfect World Entertainment
Rubicon Organization
SEGA of America, Inc.
Slang
Sony Computer Entertainment America
Sony Online Entertainment, Inc.
Square Enix, Inc.
Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc.
Tecmo Koei America Corporation
THQ, Inc.
Trion Worlds, Inc.
Ubisoft Entertainment, Inc.
Wargaming
Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment Inc.
XSEED Games

I think we can ask a few people from these companies to head to Washington and talk about their role in culture.

 

[Vilam]

Why is it we so readily accept that a huge portion of the best selling and highest budgeted video games are incredibly violent, or that escalating the level and detail of violence ever further is a major selling point?

Because we're all capable of determining for ourselves what content we're comfortable with playing or allowing in our own household and there's nothing wrong with that.

Tell Biden to piss off.

 

[espher]

I grew up playing violent games, and I have never really seen the issue with them until recently during E3 2012 when I felt utterly disgusted by the amount of people cheering at the extremely graphic shotgun blast to the face in the gameplay demo of The Last of Us.

Was the cheering a response to the shotgun blast or a response to the trailer? I haven't looked at the TLoU reveal/trialer thing in a while, and I certainly didn't see it "live", but I thought it ended/cut to the title card right after that. I know while I was a little shocked at the graphic nature of it, it didn't stop me from going "wow, this is amazing" and pasting the link into an IM convo with a friend immediately after I was done watching. :3

 

[KalBalboa]

Good on Biden for at least asking to have a discussion rather than pointing the finger like countless others have.

 

[brumx]

I remember the one in 99 where it was WWF or something with Acclaim at the congress

 

[Vilix]

Howard Lincoln is laughing is ass off somewhere right now.

 

[Nert]

Seriously? You don't see why they might want to get insight and feedback from people who make games centered around gun-related action? Come on now.

I find it absurd that people reject the mere idea that we should dare to consider the possibility of video game gun violence having an effect on how we view or consider real-life gun violence, even in the slightest.

I'm not at all opposed to conversations taking place. In the abstract, one could see the possibility of the prevalence of violent media affecting violent crime rates. I think that a lot of people are reacting strongly to the "games are a leading cause of gun violence" theory because there's no causal evidence that has been presented. Other countries with a strong video game culture, including Japan, South Korea, and the United Kingdom, have *far* less gun violence than we do.

Whether or not people are comfortable admitting it, the primary reason that we have more gun violence than other developed countries is that we have more guns. The policy question, then, boils down to a cost-benefit analysis (benefits of lower regulation in the guns market and more personal freedom vs. costs of there being far more guns available to potential criminals).

Bringing up video games in the context of gun violence at this point is just a distraction, and one that spokespeople for the NRA have used repeatedly. Honestly, I'm only interested in seeing less "gun culture" in games because there are a lot of redundant and dull shooting games out there that make this industry less interesting.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

One view from Gameasutra's Kris Gaft: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...istake_for_the_game_industry.php#.UPAeMYnjkVl

And a contrasting view from IGN's Casey Lynch: http://www.ign.com/blogs/kamicasey/...er-to-gamasturas-kris-graft-youre-dead-wrong/

Wow.

Never thought I'd see the day I find myself admiring IGNs critical thinking skills over Gamasutras.

The portrayal (and arguably glamorisation) of violence in Media is absolutely a debate worth having with legislators, and videogames being a medium that deal with violence absolutely should be at that table.

If there is a causal link between real world violence and simulated videogame violence, I want to know about it because I play videogames and don't particularly want to suffer from mental health problems as a result.

If there is no causal link (which so far seems to be the case, given the number of people actively attempting to find one and not yet succeeding) then there must be other contributing factors.
Like for example the prevalence and ease of obtaining firearms in the US.

If scientific studies can prove that there is no correlation between videogame violence and gun crimes, then no matter how hard anti-gaming advocates can declare 'truthiness' it forces the issue to examine the real causes.
Like for example the prevalence and ease of obtaining firearms in the US.

 

[Myz]

I'm not at all opposed to conversations taking place. In the abstract, one could see the possibility of the prevalence of violent media affecting violent crime rates. I think that a lot of people are reacting strongly to the "games are a leading cause of gun violence" theory because there's no causal evidence that has been presented. Other countries with a strong video game culture, including Japan, South Korea, and the United Kingdom, have *far* less gun violence than we do.

Whether or not people are comfortable admitting it, the primary reason that we have more gun violence than other developed countries is that we have more guns. The policy question, then, boils down to a cost-benefit analysis (benefits of lower regulation in the guns market and more personal freedom vs. costs of there being far more guns available to potential criminals).

Bringing up video games in the context of gun violence at this point is just a distraction, and one that spokespeople for the NRA have used repeatedly. Honestly, I'm only interested in seeing less "gun culture" in games because there are lot of redundant and dull shooting games out there that make this industry less interesting.

And thats all this discussion is aimed to do, distract from the real agenda. People dont understand that politics are all smoke and mirrors. Next thing you know the president will try to issue an executive order for stricter gun control that goes against our second ammendent.... oh wait

 

[sflufan]

Tell Biden to piss off.

Yes, because the appropriate response from a "mature" industry that wishes to be taken "seriously" when asked by the Vice President of the United States to engage on an important issue is to stick its fingers in its ears and go "LALALALALALA" or -- even better -- flick him the bird.

The lack of intellectual sophistication in this attitude is ridiculous.

 

[Grief.exe]

edit: Double posted.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

And thats all this discussion is aimed to do, distract from the real agenda. People dont understand that politics are all smoke and mirrors. Next thing you know the president will try to issue an executive order for stricter gun control that goes against our second ammendent.... oh wait

It's funny how advocates of the second amendment focus on the 'right to bear arms' part and mostly ignore the 'as part of a well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state'.

Like being a member of the National Guard.

I'm also 99% sure when the constitution was written the entire concept of modern weaponry, whether it be a scoped, laser sighted, silenced, semi-automatic sniper rifle or a fully automatic assault rifle, and the resultant lethality modern firearms can provide would have been both unfathomable and appalling to them.

 

[jcm]

So I assume they're meeting with gun manufacturers last?

Hes having a conference call with gun manufacturers and has already met with the NRA and other gun groups, as well as retailers and hunting organizations.

 

[I H8 Memes]

These games are too violent, plain and simple...There needs to be more regulation...

Whether it's COD, AC3, or any fighting game...Stuff is too violent now, the only games I'm really comfortable playing around my kid, are sports games or platformers.

Well that's an issue between you and your kid. You being a parent means this is one of the ways your life changes.

But the games are not too violent. No more than 70's movies were too violent. Other countries dont have the same problems as the U.S. with gun violence and they watch all the same movies, play all the same videogames, and listen to the same music.

 

[Tim the Wiz]

This is cowardice, plain and simple. Instead of tackling the real causes of America's distinctive problem with gun violence - namely mental health and gun regulation - it's time to scapegoat "cultural factors" which about all of the industrialized world shares, outside of the endemic and lethal gun violence. Pathetic. Or should I say bravo?, the NRA sure lucked out on a nation, or at least body politic, easily distracted and amenable to irrational reasoning.

 

[Dark Octave]

Was the cheering a response to the shotgun blast or a response to the trailer? I haven't looked at the TLoU reveal/trialer thing in a while, and I certainly didn't see it "live", but I thought it ended/cut to the title card right after that. I know while I was a little shocked at the graphic nature of it, it didn't stop me from going "wow, this is amazing" and pasting the link into an IM convo with a friend immediately after I was done watching. :3

What's there to be shocked about in TLoU trailer that you are not shocked about when watching an episode of CSI or movies like Final Destination and SAW? They didn't even show the guy getting shot. I actually don't remember seeing any blood or polygonal deformation the whole trailer, but I could be wrong on the blood. And that's not a big deal anyway in this day and age. For sure not worse than the realistic graphic images I see from a CSI commercial while eating dinner and watching The Simpsons with my family.

And yes, they were cheering the end of the trailer at the title, not the guy getting shot.