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[Grief.exe]

These games are too violent, plain and simple...There needs to be more regulation...

Whether it's COD, AC3, or any fighting game...Stuff is too violent now, the only games I'm really comfortable playing around my kid, are sports games or platformers.

This argument makes no sense. This is the same for every form of entertainment.

Whether it be Music, Movies, Books, etc.

You wouldn't listen to Dr. Dre, watch Saving Private Ryan, or read The Game of Thrones with your children would you?

Because we're all capable of determining for ourselves what content we're comfortable with playing or allowing in our own household and there's nothing wrong with that.

Tell Biden to piss off.

You need to educate people on what they don't understand.

Video Games is one of them.

Firearms is another. A lot of you may be surprised to find out that it is very difficult to argue, rationally, for gun-control laws.

Educating the ignorant is a very important step, especially if they are looking to regulate.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

And yes, they were cheering the end of the trailer at the title, not the guy getting shot.

No, the cheers and hollering were definitely for the 'taking vengeance' kill, not the end of the trailer.

Go and watch it again.

 

[I H8 Memes]

You cant be serious.

They were both found by the courts to be mentally competent. And I can assure you that if the shooter from Newtown had faced trial he would have been found competent as well. I dont see any gun owners saying that they should have been found innocent by reason of insanity. I seem to be one of the few ringing that bell. And certainly the NRA and gun owners never do.

 

[Vilam]

Yes, because the appropriate response from a "mature" industry that wishes to be taken "seriously" when asked by the Vice President of the United States to engage on an important issue is to stick its fingers in its ears and go "LALALALALALA" or -- even better -- flick him the bird.

The lack of intellectual sophistication in this attitude is ridiculous.

Thankfully that's why the ESA exists. They'll use research and facts in a polite manner to effectively tell him to piss off for me.

 

[baxter2231]

I remember seeing a video a little while ago about kids in some country in africa playing ps2's. There was like a game cafe and the kids would go there and can afford to do it. It talked about how much good it was doing because it was something to keep them off the streets so they dont join the gangs or rebel military or something. Im trying to find the video but have no luck so far. Anyone seen what im talking about.

 

[faceless007]

You know how the gun lobby gets a lot of flak for their uncompromising absolutism and juvenile refusal to have adult conversations about pressing subjects without faux macho posturing and tough guy theatrics?

I'm beginning to think they're not the only ones with that problem.

 

[Dion Blaster]

People who think video game representatives shouldn't show up or shoul tell them to "fuck off"...please get a clue. There is way too much hyper-defensiveness.

 

[Neuromancer]

They just had a story on CNN about this, did anyone catch it? I just saw the tail end. They had Ian Bogost on, a professor at the Georgia Institute of Technology. Seemed to be a positive piece for video games.

 

[Burt]

People who think video game representatives shouldn't show up or shoul tell them to "fuck off"...please get a clue. There is way too much hyper-defensiveness.

It isn't hyper-defensiveness, it's refusing to support the baseless implication that videogames or any other media are a cause for Newtown-style mass shootings. I wouldn't even go as far to argue that violent media don't have an effect on peoples outlook and, in extreme cases, behavior, but this whole thing is being put forth as a knee jerk reaction to Newtown, and there's nothing wrong with saying, "We had nothing to do with this and refuse to act as your scapegoat". Wal-mart and a whole bunch of other companies from all sorts of industries have also refused Biden's offer, on the same grounds.

 

[Grief.exe]

It isn't hyper-defensiveness, it's refusing to support the baseless implication that videogames or any other media are a cause for Newtown-style mass shootings. I wouldn't even go as far to argue that violent media don't have an effect on peoples outlook and, in extreme cases, behavior, but this whole thing is being put forth as a knee jerk reaction to Newtown, and there's nothing wrong with saying, "We had nothing to do with this and refuse to act as your scapegoat".

Well prove it then.

Show up to the meetings with the wealth of solid information that video games have nothing to do with the problem.

That is how you solve something like this, not going the other direction with it.

 

[I H8 Memes]

People who think video game representatives shouldn't show up or shoul tell them to "fuck off"...please get a clue. There is way too much hyper-defensiveness.

Well the only reason they are there at all is because of this pathetic press conference and the even more pathetic responses by some people to take it seriously.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGzXkZDT0cc

Hey maybe the president of the NRA is right, it's not guns that are the problem, it's videogames. And we really should have armed volunteers in every school in America.


Why should anyone who plays games or any videogame representative take this seriously? I dont see any other countries that play the same videogames having the same problems as the U.S. That alone removes videogames from the equation as being part of the problem. End of discussion.

 

[baxter2231]

Found it take a look at this article or video, talks about how video games prevent violence

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQzyk22S_Pk

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/04/somalia-video-game-boom-al-shabaab

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Hey maybe the president of the NRA is right, it's not guns that are the problem, it's videogames. And we really should have armed volunteers in every school in America.

I sometimes wonder if the NRA realise they're doing their own opponents social engineering for them when they make claims like this and start to alienate potential future members by proving how full of shit they are to youngsters at an impressionable age.

 

[Neuromancer]

It's on CNN again.

Some idiots (Jay Thomas) on there right now talking about how guns are too realistic on games and we should all be playing games with laser guns or something.

 

[RumblingRosco]

Well the only reason they are there at all is because of this pathetic press conference and the even more pathetic responses by some people to take it seriously.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGzXkZDT0cc

Hey maybe the president of the NRA is right, it's not guns that are the problem, it's videogames. And we really should have armed volunteers in every school in America.


Why should anyone who plays games or any videogame representative take this seriously? I dont see any other countries that play the same videogames having the same problems as the U.S. That alone removes videogames from the equation as being part of the problem. End of discussion.

Playing devil's advocate here, but maybe videogames are one of many factors that result in the higher shooting rate in the U.S. Certainly, videogames alone won't convince someone to go commit mass homicide, but maybe videogames in addition to the availability of guns in addition to who knows how many other factors all lead to this problem.

It's great that Biden is consulting with the videogame industry. It means the industry is maturing and being held potentially accountable for things. Personally, I don't believe videogames cause people to shoot up school, but I wouldn't be surprised if they play one of the many roles involved in some shootings.

 

[ChosenPredator]

Found it take a look at this article or video, talks about how video games prevent violence

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQzyk22S_Pk

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/04/somalia-video-game-boom-al-shabaab

I also remember an article saying Secondlife has tons of pedophiles on there but they rather have them do it on there so it prevents them from doing it real life..they monitor them on there or some shit...i can't remember exactly what it said it was a few years ago i read it.

 

[jon bones]

guys... i get that you like video games, but it's important to discuss all the reasons we have a gun culture in this country and others. addressing video games isn't bad, no need to get so defensive jeez.

I think it is reasonable to have the industry sit down and talk about the matter. I'd much rather have a seat at the table than to be the scapegoat.

absolutely. maybe educate parents more on the types / ratings of games they're buying their kids?

 

[Tim the Wiz]

Well prove it then.

Show up to the meetings with the wealth of solid information that video games have nothing to do with the problem.

That is how you solve something like this, not going the other direction with it.

Prove what? It doesn't take much outside the cursory examination of basic critical thinking to realize that the artifice violence of fictional entertainment has a ridiculously tenuous relationship with the specific and repeated events of gun violence perpetrated in the United States. Just compare the incidence of that same gun violence with other industrialized nations brought up near-wholly on the same, sometimes less censored or more provocative, entertainment.

It's time America acknowledges it has real problems. Ones that go deeper than kids playing GTA or watching Tarantino movies. But unfortunately doing that would trigger an actual substantive discourse which might require serious changes in a health care system failing the mentally ill and the regulation of firearms, as well as upsetting a powerful lobby group.

So yeah, I don't think calling out the outrage spin factory for what it is somehow equates to hyper-defensiveness. It's simply stating the obvious in a roomful of people searching for easy distractions solutions they can sell on television to worried parents.

 

[jcm]

This is cowardice, plain and simple. Instead of tackling the real causes of America's distinctive problem with gun violence - namely mental health and gun regulation - it's time to scapegoat "cultural factors" which about all of the industrialized world shares, outside of the endemic and lethal gun violence. Pathetic. Or should I say bravo?, the NRA sure lucked out on a nation, or at least body politic, easily distracted and amenable to irrational reasoning.

What are you talking about? The entire purpose of these meetings is that he's going to present a plan for gun regulation to the president next week.

Edit: Here, read this.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

"Video Game representatives"

?

Lol. What? Who?

Maybe it'll be the next Iwata asks?

 

[Nokterian]

They just had a story on CNN about this, did anyone catch it? I just saw the tail end. They had Ian Bogost on, a professor at the Georgia Institute of Technology. Seemed to be a positive piece for video games.

Reading on twitter. Kids where burning there videogames.

 

[Nert]

Playing devil's advocate here, but maybe videogames are one of many factors that result in the higher shooting rate in the U.S. Certainly, videogames alone won't convince someone to go commit mass homicide, but maybe videogames in addition to the availability of guns in addition to who knows how many other factors all lead to this problem.

It's great that Biden is consulting with the videogame industry. It means the industry is maturing and being held potentially accountable for things. Personally, I don't believe videogames cause people to shoot up school, but I wouldn't be surprised if they play one of the many roles involved in some shootings.

I understand that you're playing devil's advocate, but as I detailed earlier, there isn't even a *correlation* between the consumption of video games and gun violence. I'm also happy to see them inviting members of the industry to hear their perspective (if the only alternative would be politicians grandstanding and shaming them), but to see games brought up repeatedly in the specific context of gun violence in the U.S. as a potential cause is enervating, to say the least.

 

[Tim the Wiz]

What are you talking about? The entire purpose of these meetings is that he's going to present a plan for gun regulation to the president next week.

I hope, and expect, it's simply an empty gesture to appease the nonsense being floated in the media. But seeking out the video game industry for input on this matter only validates the spin of forces which stand against the movement of truly necessary reform on the front of gun violence. Biden and co. should stay focused on fixing the actual problem at stake.

In the big picture, the Obama administration is on the right track in pushing for regulation of course.

 

[jcm]

I hope, and expect, it's simply an empty gesture to appease the nonsense being floated in the media. But seeking out the video game industry for input on this matter only validates the spin of forces which stand against the movement of truly necessary reform on the front of gun violence. Biden and co. should stay focused on fixing the actual problem at stake.

Well, I suppose that's an improvement over "cowardice" and "pathetic". My feeling is that as long as most Americans believe that violent video games and other media contribute to this kind of thing, then the government has a duty to study and address it, if for no other other reason than to try to get the public interested in (what I believe) are the actual root causes.

If I were in charge of the ESA, I'd offer to put up a million dollars, no strings attached, for the NIH to study the issue. Tackle it head on.

 

[pargonta]

cnn running clips now [over]
biden speaking at roundtable discussion

john riccitello (i believe) seated to his right, cnn cuts away after only a few minutes of footage

the sentiment was they are examining all areas, not singling out video games.

 

[RumblingRosco]

I understand that you're playing devil's advocate, but as I detailed earlier, there isn't even a *correlation* between the consumption of video games and gun violence. I'm also happy to see them inviting members of the industry to hear their perspective (if the only alternative would be politicians grandstanding and shaming them), but to see games brought up repeatedly in the specific context of gun violence in the U.S. as a potential cause is enervating, to say the least.

I've never seen any legitimate data to suggest that videogames cause or correlate to gun violence, but aren't there legitimate studies that suggest violent videogames have been correlated to desensitization towards violence?

 

[Grief.exe]

Prove what? It doesn't take much outside the cursory examination of basic critical thinking to realize that the artifice violence of fictional entertainment has a ridiculously tenuous relationship with the specific and repeated events of gun violence perpetrated in the United States.

Keep in mind these are politicians we are talking about. The same politicians that put politics ahead of country when damaging our credit rating and putting an artificial stop on the debt ceiling, possibly damaging our economy further. At the same time withholding relief for hurricane victims. And in the pocket of any corporation willing to fund their reelection campaign.

Rational thought and critical thinking are out the window. These guys are a complete joke at this point.

 

[Dark Octave]

No, the cheers and hollering were definitely for the 'taking vengeance' kill, not the end of the trailer.

Go and watch it again.

And if it was, so what. This is why we watch action movies. We want to see the good guys win and the bad guys lose. Your great grandfather did the same thing when John Wayne shot Pistol Pete in the gut on the silver screen while eating popcorn and doing the old yawn and stretch to your grandmother.

 

[boiled goose]

As much as we like to dismiss things, there are some issues right now.

Violent, M-rated games are being targeted and marketed at children, and that has to stop.
I am also surprised at how many parents here on GAF let their very young children play violent games and even play online.

If we can't regulate our own industry, others will want to step in.

 

[Arcteryx]

These games are too violent, plain and simple...There needs to be more regulation...

Whether it's COD, AC3, or any fighting game...Stuff is too violent now, the only games I'm really comfortable playing around my kid, are sports games or platformers.

DING DING DING YOUR kid. Guess what, not everyone has a kid. Why should I be punished for what you choose to do in front of your kid?

It's on CNN again.

Some idiots (Jay Thomas) on there right now talking about how guns are too realistic on games and we should all be playing games with laser guns or something.

I love that line of reasoning. We should also do away with ALL medical/technical books, as someone could build a bomb, learn about the human body, or learn how to clean up a crime.

 

[Card Boy]

"Video Game representatives"

?

Lol. What? Who?

Doritos Pope.

 

[elcapitan]

As much as we like to dismiss things, there are some issues right now.

Violent, M-rated games are being targeted and marketed at children, and that has to stop.
I am also surprised at how many parents here on GAF let their very young children play violent games and even play online.

If we can't regulate our own industry, others will want to step in.

Why is this a problem? I played violent games as a kid and I turned out fine. My little cousins play violent games, same thing. The thought of little kids murdering virtual people may be unsettling at first, but in the end, as long as everybody understands the difference between fantasy and reality, it doesn't matter much.

 

[Dunan]

Honestly if this leads to more education about the ESRB rating system and parents stop buying 8 year old kids every big M rated title that comes out, it could be a good thing.

Watch them get "tough" with the age restrictions and start refusing service to purchasers who don't bring ID with them to the store even if they've very visibly over 17 (or whatever the minimum age for M games is).

 

[RumblingRosco]

Watch them get "tough" with the age restrictions and start refusing service to purchasers who don't bring ID with them to the store even if they've very visibly over 17 (or whatever the minimum age for M games is).

That seems fine with me. They enforce that for alcohol and tobacco at a lot of stores, so I see nothing wrong with that. It'd make online purchases perhaps a bit more complicated, though.

 

[Burt]

Well prove it then.

Show up to the meetings with the wealth of solid information that video games have nothing to do with the problem.

That is how you solve something like this, not going the other direction with it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

It doesn't matter what's said or what's "proved". People only hear what they want to hear. It's like arguing religion or global warming or evolution. For every piece of hard evidence that can be put forth, the opposition will just claim the invalidity of your source show its own hard evidence from its own "valid" source. There's nothing to be gained.

If you think I'm wrong, just wait until someone from the industry says something constructive and completely reasonable about violence in media, only to have his/her words twisted, criticized, and taken out of context by news outlets (from either side, even CNN is nearly as bad as Fox with this stuff), thereby prolonging the issue and fanning the flames of idiocy.

 

[boiled goose]

Why is this a problem? I played violent games as a kid and I turned out fine. My little cousins play violent games, same thing. The thought of little kids murdering virtual people may be unsettling at first, but in the end, as long as everybody understands the difference between fantasy and reality, it doesn't matter much.

I don't think it is intrinsically a problem, but parents need to be more involved in what their kids are doing.

It is not just the murdering of virtual people, it is the glorification of violence. The online gaming community is also at times quite... inappropriate for children.

Again, parents need to be more involved in what their kids are doing. They can decide what is appropriate and parent accordingly.

I am speaking from a practical standpoint, not a purely empirical one of "video games cause or are not shown to cause violence".

If we dont regulate the industry better, it will be regulated for us. Which we DONT want.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

And if it was, so what. This is why we watch action movies. We want to see the good guys win and the bad guys lose. Your great grandfather did the same thing when John Wayne shot Pistol Pete in the gut on the silver screen while eating popcorn and doing the old yawn and stretch to your grandmother.

There's a difference between cheering on 'the good guy' and cheering on the killing of an unarmed man pleading for mercy.

Some might say someone who does that is not 'a good guy'.

 

[sflufan]

Watch them get "tough" with the age restrictions and start refusing service to purchasers who don't bring ID with them to the store even if they've very visibly over 17 (or whatever the minimum age for M games is).

That's EXACTLY the kind of self-regulation I'm talking about!

 

[I H8 Memes]

There's a difference between cheering on 'the good guy' and cheering on the killing of an unarmed man pleading for mercy.

Some might say someone who does that is not 'a good guy'.

Like when Clint Eastwood killed Skinny in Unforgiven.

Little Bill: I'll have you know you just killed an unarmed man!

William Munny: Well he should have armed himself.

*crowd cheers and laughs*

And by the way, the guy was armed. He hit the protagonist in the head with a board. he was also much bigger than the protagonist. What moron in real life wouldnt end that fight at the first chance. Especially without knowing if there is anyone else in the building.

The only difference between the last of us and *some movies, is that the violence was presented in a more realistic fashion. That's partly due to design and partly due to technology finally allowing it. And I'm all for it. Bring on more and make it as realistic as possible. Hell these arent even actors. These are pixels on your screen and nothing more. And to finally have violence presented in a way that at least approaches a film like Children of Men is pretty refreshing and long overdue.

 

[Angry Fork]

It can be positively argued why the 1st amendment is sacrosanct but the 2nd one isn't.

Art/media should never ever be regulated by politicians. It is a complete non debate, anyone in favor of such regulation is suspect imo.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Like when Clint Eastwood killed Skinny in Unforgiven.

I... can't help but feel you missed a fairly major theme of Unforgiven if you left it thinking Clint Eastwood was playing a typical Western 'good guy'

 

[I H8 Memes]

I... can't help but feel you missed a fairly major theme of Unforgiven if you left it thinking Clint Eastwood was playing a typical Western 'good guy'

And neither is the protagonist of The Last of Us.

 

[Burt]

The only difference between the last of us and *some movies, is that the violence was presented in a more realistic fashion. That's partly due to design and partly due to technology finally allowing it. And I'm all for it. Bring on more and make it as realistic as possible. Hell these arent even actors. These are pixels on your screen and nothing more. And to finally have violence presented in a way that at least approaches a film like Children of Men is pretty refreshing and long overdue.

Porn is nothing but pixels on a screen, but I doubt that's ever stopped anyone before.

 

[Dunan]

That seems fine with me. They enforce that for alcohol and tobacco at a lot of stores, so I see nothing wrong with that. It'd make online purchases perhaps a bit more complicated, though.

It's not the least bit fine with me. It's a backdoor step towards the statist idea of making everyone carry government-issued papers at all times.

If I attempted to buy an M-rated game and were refused service because I wasn't carrying papers proving that I was over 17 -- and I'm in my mid-30s, but have been "carded" for alcohol and denied service at this age -- I'd boycott that store forever.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

And neither is the protagonist of The Last of Us.

I would be pleasantly surprised if the protagonist from The Last Of Us is developed and shown to be a misguided anti-hero through the course of the game, but that certainly wasn't what the poster I quoted took from the trailer and not what the cheers were about which some found disturbing.

Maybe it's a cultural thing, as both you and the other poster are phrasing the issue in terms of a Western, but to disarm someone and then execute them while they beg for their life is not generally considered to be the actions of a well adjusted human being and is an indicator - at the very least - of very poor empathy.

 

[PhoenixDark]

They should make ESRB ratings more prominent on videogame boxes. They should be similar to what the Surgeon General does with cigarette boxes in terms of large warnings about the contents of the game.

It would allow the government and gaming industry to say they covered their own asses, and would continue to put the ultimate blame/initiative on parents

 

[Riposte]

I would be pleasantly surprised if the protagonist from The Last Of Us is developed and shown to be a misguided anti-hero through the course of the game, but that certainly wasn't what the poster I quoted took from the trailer and not what the cheers were about which some found disturbing.

Maybe it's a cultural thing, as both you and the other poster are phrasing the issue in terms of a Western, but to disarm someone and then execute them while they beg for their life is not generally considered to be the actions of a well adjusted human being and is an indicator - at the very least - of very poor empathy.

I don't suppose the game's setting accounts for anything.

 

[pslong009]

They were both found by the courts to be mentally competent. And I can assure you that if the shooter from Newtown had faced trial he would have been found competent as well. I dont see any gun owners saying that they should have been found innocent by reason of insanity. I seem to be one of the few ringing that bell. And certainly the NRA and gun owners never do.

You're (almost) completely wrong on this. In 2011, Jared Loughner was found mentally incompetent to stand trial and was ordered to undergo psychiatric treatment. It was only after a year of treatment that he was found competent, when he then struck a plea deal. There has been no ruling on James Holmes's mental competency as of yet. So, no, neither have been found innocent by reason of insanity, but Loughner was certainly found to be unable to stand trial due to mental incompetence and Holmes hasn't reached that point in his trial.

Edit: Also, IANAL, but I'm pretty sure there's a difference between being found mentally competent to stand trial and being found not guilty by reason of insanity.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...hooter-james-holmes-could-be-proxy-trial?lite

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jan/11/aurora-suspect-james-holmes-plea-arraignment-delayed

 

[Kabouter]

Why is this a "problem"? I mean putting taste aside.

I think my main issue with it is this: Interaction is the core of video gaming, it is the main thing that distinguishes it from other, passive media like films or books, and certainly the major appeal of video games. I am incredibly disappointed that within this medium, so many developers choose to make games where the main or, not uncommonly, only way you really interact with the world is through violence. Now, there's nothing inherently wrong with that on its own, I enjoy violent games too as my GOTY votes reflect every year and will this year, but there is when it's so very dominant and big budgets are only rarely devoted to games that try to do something different, and when one of the main ways of increasing appeal of games is just upping the violence rather than pushing the medium forward by innovating and offering a truly different experience to players.

 

[Rentahamster]

Biden is wasting his time. This accomplishes nothing substantial.