Gaz Pwnage
Member
Hmm, were people really expecting a 1000$ supercomputer?
A $1000 Supercomuputer is not needed to be "Blown Away"
Hmm, were people really expecting a 1000$ supercomputer?
"Why go first, when your competitors can look at your specifications and come up with something better?"
LOL, Hirai has spoken.
I think the mover copies the ESRAM content to the DDR3 ram, and it's read simultaneously from DDR3 and ESRAMCan somebody explain me how it can be 170GB/sec combined, when at the best ddr can give 70GB/sec????
I am noob so sorry for this question.
His example was tailored towards ports, just because you don't understand don't get mad lol. For the record, it doesn't mean "stop looking at flops" as you implied.
Guy 1 said:We will see how it plays out but I quite recall how the 360 was merely a Xbox 1.5 and when the PS3 would come out, it'd blow it away and never look back.
Looking forward to many more months of the same.
guy 2 said:It's not the same as last gen since both machines are launching at the same time, and there's no rumours of components as exotic *bla bla bla* same architecture *barf barf* the same vendor *and it goes on and on* The CPUs are now basically the same too.
I don't think there's any amount of special sauce in Durango that can bridge a 6 CU and 600 GFLOP gap.
*Orbis also has special sauce bla bla bla*
Is anyone aware of any feasible customisations (ie hw raytracers are unlikely) they could do to the GPU or extra blocks they could add that would even out the difference in FLOPS?
erp said:latching onto individual figures is not a useful way to understand performance differences.
OK lets say that everything else in the hardware is identical for a second, so you have a 50% performance difference, but only in ALU limited situations.
When I render shadows, I'm ROP (or rathe Z-Fill) limited, if my shaders are texture heavy, the ALU's sit idle and wait on memory, on current PC GPU's if the vertex workload is dominant, for the most part they grossly underutilize the ALU's.
So what percentage of the time do the extra ALU's actually help?
If it's 40% it's a 20% performance difference, if it's 80% it's a 40% difference I would guess it will end up being closer to the first than the second.
If 720 has more ROPs (and enough associated bandwidth) or a larger register pool and can hide more latency, then it gets more of that difference back, because it runs other portions of the frame faster.
Now I'm not suggesting it's "faster" or for that matter "slower", I'm saying it's just one aspect of a design.
It is, they came up with the extensions, Intel licensed the tech to include in their CPUs.x64 isn't associated with AMD at all. All modern processors in desktop/laptop PC's are x64.
I wouldn't bet on Blu Ray playback.
Of course they must be using the blu laser technology to have more space for games, but I'm not sure that they're going to pay royalties to the BDA to be a Blu Ray movie player as well.
They could use the same strategy they used with the original Xbox, "if you want DVD playback you have to buy the remote controller which enables it".
Or they could simply say that there is no blu ray playback at all because HD movies can be donwloaded through their own service.
Hmm, were people really expecting a 1000$ supercomputer?
I wouldn't bet on Blu Ray playback.
Of course they must be using the blu laser technology to have more space for games, but I'm not sure that they're going to pay royalties to the BDA to be a Blu Ray movie player as well.
They could use the same strategy they used with the original Xbox, "if you want DVD playback you have to buy the remote controller which enables it".
Or they could simply say that there is no blu ray playback at all because HD movies can be donwloaded through their own service.
This doesn't make sense.
No, I expected exactly this, since there is almost no new information here. I was hoping for something more exotic than a tablet CPU and custom mid-range PC gpu. Like we have gotten every other generation
No, I expected exactly this, since there is almost no new information here. I was hoping for something more exotic than a tablet CPU and custom mid-range PC gpu. Like we have gotten every other generation
Based on the leaks alone, at the moment it does seem to be in Sony's camp. Someone clarify if I am wrong on the details below.
CPU
Durango/Orbis: the same
GPU
Orbis: 78xx
Durango: 77xx
Orbis: 4 GB GDDR5 @est 192 GB/s(?)
Durango: 8 GB DDR3 @70 GB/s + 32mb Esram @102 GB/s (Combined 170 GB/s using 32mb Esram).
It will have bluray play back. They are trying to make a all in 1 box and if no bluray playback that would screw that to no end.
Hey guys, remember when thuway posted this:
I wouldn't bet on Blu Ray playback.
Of course they must be using the blu laser technology to have more space for games, but I'm not sure that they're going to pay royalties to the BDA to be a Blu Ray movie player as well.
They could use the same strategy they used with the original Xbox, "if you want DVD playback you have to buy the remote controller which enables it".
Or they could simply say that there is no blu ray playback at all because HD movies can be donwloaded through their own service.
Hey guys, remember when thuway posted this:
other than the DVR integration (and that is something that Nintendo is trying), I don't see anything particularly unique
Sounds like a good, beefy hardware. But it really is surprising how similar the architecture is compared to Wii U. This should really help Nintendo to get the downports then, which could give them a healthy lineup and good market place in addition to a presumably better price point.
Royalty isn't as high as you seem it is. Everyone and their mother is using BD-ROM these days. Microsoft can afford it, especially if they want their console to be the entertainment center.
Hey guys, remember when thuway posted this:
Im pretty sure MS own an actual codec for Bluray playback (VC-1)...
Hey guys, remember when thuway posted this:
Theres a reason for that, PCs have single, dual, quad and hex? cores, they can't optimise for 8 threads when the game also has to run on lesser CPUs.Complex to program for CPU- Whilst 8 cores is all well and nice, as proven time after time with PC games struggling to even utilise quad cores and PS3 devs complaining 24/7 about the scaling games to so many threads, it is shocking that both Sony and MS chose to go for 8 slow cores over a smaller number of faster cores which will only necessitate increases to development effort and therefore costs.
of course you'll still have lots of deferred engines. MS being the 'king of tools and 3rd party hugs' wouldn't make a machine that forces developers to change their rendering systems.
Most likely the move chip comes in here, moving buffers out into main ram during quiet periods, so the esram can be used by the GPU for the next pass etc.
and we still had deferred engines this gen with 10mb edram on the 360 - this is 3x more so may just about be enough for 1080p anyway.
Wait, the ESRAM in the Durango is nearly half the speed of the main ram in Orbis?
No, if the frambuffer must stay in the eDRAM like in the Xbox360, then you are limited to 32MB. Thus, you couldn't run a game using multiple frame buffers that needs 128MB for example. Killezone 3 wouldn't be possible on Xbox360 as its framebuffer wouldn't fit in the 10MB eDRAM.
VC1 used to be on HD-DVD.
Sounds like a good, beefy hardware. But it really is surprising how similar the architecture is compared to Wii U. This should really help Nintendo to get the downports then
That's the point. So...
if the PS4 has extra Compute Units the CPU wont be the same.
Wait, the ESRAM in the Durango is nearly half the speed of the main ram in Orbis?
The unique part would be... and this is if Microsoft is able to nail it... the complete seamless "Apple-like" integration where even Grandma could get it to work. No one has come close to that. Microsoft is aiming to create the future of entertainment accessibility for $400-$450 where if you see it at your friends house and how easy it is to use, you're going to want it too. We'll see if they succeed. It's interesting, nonetheless.
PS4 seems to be more brute force, PSN integration, Vita integration, plus a new controller with a touchscreen of some sort. Seems more "games" focused but that doesn't mean the Xbox won't have compelling games too. You can see the difference in approach by the two companies. Verrrrry interesting!
Mmm it sounds reasonable ...
Mmm it sounds reasonable ...
Sounds like a good, beefy hardware. But it really is surprising how similar the architecture is compared to Wii U. This should really help Nintendo to get the downports then, which could give them a healthy lineup and good market place in addition to a presumably better price point.
Anyways, I can't wait and see how the software will look like in the end and especially how the next gen Kinect will be like.
It's not going to happen.
Didn't you also come up with secret Sauce? Where's your secret sauce now?
What's the data move engine?
Is it like a data transfer engine?