This is healthy-looking grass:
The thing is, I think bloom CAN improve the image -- but it should be dialed back a bit from what's seen in these screens.
If it hasn't already, I mean.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker HD Announced
- Thread starter Seda
- Start date
- Status
The thing is, I think bloom CAN improve the image -- but it should be dialed back a bit from what's seen in these screens.
If it hasn't already, I mean.
plagiarize
Banned
Not exactly. I am saying either the lighting or purposeful changes to colour balance are making the ground appear more brightly coloured, but it isn't making it bloomy or haloed or glowy. HDR lighting could be doing it. Colour balance could be doing it.
I do not look at it and think I am looking at gold metal though. That's a massive exaggeration. I do see more saturated colours though.
bloom is only effecting grass that is near the sky. there is not bloom over the whole image. it is just effecting objects where they border the sky, in all the pictures. edges against the sky, bloomy, edges against anything else, hard lines with no colour bleeding. people making EMB mod comparisons are WAY off. the bloom is applied selectively where it should be. that isn't to say it isn't being overdone, or that the lighting isn't over saturating the colours... or that you can't prefer the old look. but the grass isn't showing bloom, or glowing, or whatever.
My God. Really? Do you not realize that was a response to someone who asked me to bring up some examples of professional games with worse bloom? I didn't bring it up.
Please just stop. You're just embarrassing yourself.
It looks less defined to me, more like a mass of color, and that color borders on lurid compared to the original or anything found in a healthy state of nature.
You brought up the challenge.
Uh, dude, I'm just calling it the way I see it. It looks unnatural. Not just in a cartoony way, either. And I'm hardly the only one to think that.
This is a controversial change -- man up and accept the fact, because I won't be last person to discuss it.
plagiarize
Banned
right, but that's saturation. Carlov was correct to say other games use a lot more bloom on the sky than we see in this video, and his comparisons demonstrated his claim was true.
if you're looking at the ground foliage in that Crysis shot and the grass in Wind Waker to dispute that, you are looking in the wrong place. the windwaker shots show much more saturated colours. they do not show more bloom.
when I think of how wind waker looks vs reality, I think it looks generally a lot more colourful. this maybe too colourful... and people are welcome to not like it as much, but they are wrong to call that specific thing bloom.
they aren't wrong to say bloom has been added to the sky. they aren't wrong to prefer how the sky looked without it. but to say that other games don't use a much stronger version of the same effect is absolutely wrong.
you do not, in my experience, see water the colour blue it is in windwaker in the real world. I would never level that as a criticism against it.
Actually, I think I see where we're talking past each other now.
Forget whatever is causing any given element to look one way or another. Whether it's bloom or saturation or color change or whatever, I'm just speaking to the look of the whole image... which is yellowed, radioactive, and all-around garish-looking. This avoids the whole tangle of confusion about what changes the look of this or that, and gets to the heart of the matter -- which is that it looks really, really off. Whatever is causing it, it looks off.
I do acknowledge it could look substantially better in motion. In that respect, I'm hoping for something akin to Nintendo Land's plaza, but not so bright.
So far, there's only reason for concern, though. Hopefully this is truly just a prototype.
Forget whatever is causing any given element to look one way or another. Whether it's bloom or saturation or color change or whatever, I'm just speaking to the look of the whole image... which is yellowed, radioactive, and all-around garish-looking. This avoids the whole tangle of confusion about what changes the look of this or that, and gets to the heart of the matter -- which is that it looks really, really off. Whatever is causing it, it looks off.
I do acknowledge it could look substantially better in motion. In that respect, I'm hoping for something akin to Nintendo Land's plaza, but not so bright.
So far, there's only reason for concern, though. Hopefully this is truly just a prototype.
plagiarize
Banned
for me, I really need to see the range of lighting. if the 'bright sunny' lighting in windwaker is brighter and sunnier, I'm all for that, so long as the lighting when the sky is overcast, or stormy, or night, isn't also brighter and sunnier. The joy of the sun breaking through the clouds after a storm would, I think, be increased with this kind of lighting, and that was always a magical moment in windwaker.
Agreed. And one point in its favor, even at this early stage, is the new lighting -does- add more depth to what was previously a fairly flat image.
I think these changes can work -- but at this point, I'd like to see them dialed back a bit. These screens make the game look garish in coloration.
We were also replying to that, though.
http://www.openobject.org/physicalprogramming/images/9/9f/Mustard_yellow_background.jpg
The above link is an example of mustard yellow. This is not; just really cartoony, saturated green grass.
That makes me wonder, would it be technically feasible for them to give us BOTH options? "Enhanced" graphics and "Classic" graphics, both in HD and widescreen, but "Enhanced" has the controversial effects like bloom, etc, and "Classic" doesn't? That way everyone would be happy.
They did something like this with Halo Anniversary, no? It should be possible, and much appreciated.
Silent_Ocarina
Member
The way they did it in Halo Anniversary was by have two engines running simultaneously or something completely bizarre like that. That seems like a pretty big undertaking to do on a brand new console, especially for a game only meant to fill the gap until the next proper Legend of Zelda game.
It'd be great, especially if you could toggle between them at any time. And in a best-case scenario, they'd also present two versions of the soundtrack -- the original resampled at higher quality, and an arranged version played by an orchestra. It'd be cool if you could then mix and match the different visual and sound styles.
Oh, really? Bummer...
The funniest part? Everyone's gonna buy it and enjoy it anyway.
My awful 10 minute attempt at adjusting the colors:
Man, SO much better already. Tune down the bloom just a smidge more, and I'd be excited about this game.
I think they should do both and give us the option to toggle between visual styles in-game, but maybe it's not practical or feasible.
Barring that, an update more akin to OoT 3D would be appreciated -- fleshing out the art assets for a bit more definition and, in this case, increasing the resolution and adding widescreen, with SOME new lighting effects, etc, here and there to make the image lusher.
But yeah, if it stays like what we see in the screens, I just hope it "breathes" a lot better and doesn't come off so garish in motion.
Carlov -- I agree, lol.
But in the meantime, I'll ask for something better!
abstract alien
Member
Reggie was right. We are insatiable.
Meesh
Member
On a side note, gameplay additions wise, WW was criticized in some ways for there being too much water to traverse when going from island to island. Personally I kind of hope they tighten this up a bit so we don't spend quite as much time sailing... Mind you, if those missing dungeons(islands?) were included that could fill a little space...
Something else occurred to me as well when pouring over those screenshots, I remember spending a lot of time goofing off on the island you get your personal cabana. No idea why, but I just had to arrange those silly ornaments over and over. It really made me wish there was more customization that could be done to your personal isle. If we're able to take in game snapshots, and it's miiverse supported, perhaps they'll include a cabana decorating mode? It's a longshot but it's something I've been dreaming about since I first played WW...silly Zelda fanboy I know lol
Something else occurred to me as well when pouring over those screenshots, I remember spending a lot of time goofing off on the island you get your personal cabana. No idea why, but I just had to arrange those silly ornaments over and over. It really made me wish there was more customization that could be done to your personal isle. If we're able to take in game snapshots, and it's miiverse supported, perhaps they'll include a cabana decorating mode? It's a longshot but it's something I've been dreaming about since I first played WW...silly Zelda fanboy I know lol
Here's my crazy fanboy wishlist that I fully acknowledge will not be what we get:
The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker Reborn (feat. Four Swords Adventures HD)
Now features two HD visual styles (Classic and Enhanced); two soundtrack styles (Classic and Enhanced); two play styles (GamePad and Wii Remote Plus/Nunchuk). GamePad features touch-enabled sub-screens, map markup, gyro-controlled items (optional), Tingle Tuner integration, off-TV play, and Miiverse support. Remote/nunchuk combo features 1:1 motion control. The visual styles, soundtrack styles, and play styles can be mixed freely, changed at any time. A "legendary" difficulty option is available from the start for greater challenge.
There are two new dungeons -- one near the end of the first half, one near the end of the second half -- with new items like the Fire Rod, and new enemies, obstacles, puzzles, and bosses, as well as new events preceding and following, featuring new areas and new characters, including a new race of people and a new character destined to be the third sage. Original seven dungeons reworked a bit for higher quality; ditto for every island across the Great Sea, for increased variety. At least one new island added to each square on the map, a 100 percent increase in land mass.
New NPCs, new minigames, new shops, new treasures, and new features like establishing home bases on various islands, furnishing them with decor, and changing your outfit there. A mirrored, remixed Master Quest unlocks at the end, along with Dungeon Select and Boss Select. Gossip Stones provide abundant lore, and Sheikah Stones provide guidance. Tweaks to the systems include more warp points, faster sailing, and dedicated buttons for the Sail and Wind Waker in the boat.
Four Swords Adventures is also included in HD, with an English localization of Tetra's Trackers, and both local and online play, supporting voice chat and closed communities. FSA is compatible with the GamePad, DS, DSi and 3DS.
I feel the final version will look really good, for graphics Nintendo just also needs to fix the ground/rock, etc textures because they still look Gamecubish. But I can tell it is still very in development considering they didn't show off gameplay footage.
NinjaTehFish
Banned
Mmm Mmmm Mmmmm.....You smell that sparky? That's the bat-shit crazy smell of a new Zelda speculation thread.
And it smells delicious
And it smells delicious
The edited pic is too dull, Nintendo color palette is fine.WHOA, I didn't see EmCee's work earlier -- MUCH improved, in terms of the colors:
For reference, here's how it really looks:
Meesh
Member
Snaaaaaaaap... You're forgetting one more crucial fanboy element. NFC integration where we collect real figures this time and use those to unlock additional, albeit superfluous, character costumes, enemy variations, dungeon items and all maner of useless coolness.
The edit looks lush and verdant. The real deal looks like your legs would catch on fire walking across the grass.
I admit, I do love this particular screen. Characters look very nice, something between Pixar and claymation.Yeah, I have no doubts tweaks--however minor they be--will be made.
And to be fair,
does look gorgeous. I think the new lighting does bounce off the characters pretty well.
NinjaTehFish
Banned
Wanted to know.....
abstract alien
Member
He does remind me of how I remember toon link in Brawl, how ever accurate or inaccurate that is.
Nothing says anti-dull like radioactive waste grass, I'll give you that.
abstract alien
Member
They would have to do some serious work to the enemies to even make it fair. Not worth the time with a new zelda coming as well. I would love this, btw. Let's just get the game in HD and streamlined though.
NinjaTehFish
Banned
As long as they fix the endgame Im down for whatever they throw at us. It will be interesting to see if they do an Iwata Laughs Asks for this.
It's a prototype, it's going to change. If it was anywhere close to final they would have shown a video.
Much like yoshi's yarn which doesn't seem close to even vertical slice yet. This is super early stuff.
Spieler Eins
Member
Aonuma apologized for the fetch quest at the end before TP came out iirc. There's no going back for him, this shit needs to be fixed.
Also, wind changing on the gamepad without playing the song please.
EmCeeGramr
Member
I hope the entire "fixing" of the endgame is just a giant signpost that appears like 2/5ths of the way through the game saying "YOU CAN ACTUALLY START COLLECTING TRIFORCE PIECES NOW AT YOUR OWN LEISURE, YOU DON'T HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL THE END"
Well you could kinda start collecting them after you get back from underwater. At least you could get the maps, it's how I did it on my last play through.
I have complete faith in the source of these images: Nintendo. Their visuals never disappoint, no matter how limiting their tech is, they make beautiful games. I have no doubt that they know what they're doing.
EmCeeGramr
Member
You could get the #3 chart as soon as you could sail there, #1 and #5 require you to have bombs, #2 requires the Hammer from the very beginning of the second trip to Forsaken Fortress, #6 and #7 require the Power Bracelets, which you can get almost directly after beating Forsaken Fortress, and #4 and #8 require the Hookshot, meaning they're really the only two that you need to wait until the end for.
You could get the Triforce shards themselves as soon as you had the charts.
WHOA, I didn't see EmCee's work earlier -- MUCH improved, in terms of the colors:
For reference, here's how it really looks:
Jesus the first pic looks good. Second is downright laughable when you compare them side by side like that.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
Did they ever say what these two cut dungeons were themed around?
Also while I can understand some of the backlash towards those screenshots, the fact that besides lighting they're literally the same exact models and textures from the original game makes it likely they're probably not going to be indicative of the final game. I'm sure this has been reiterated by several other people a million times by now though.
Also while I can understand some of the backlash towards those screenshots, the fact that besides lighting they're literally the same exact models and textures from the original game makes it likely they're probably not going to be indicative of the final game. I'm sure this has been reiterated by several other people a million times by now though.
EmCeeGramr
Member
Nope. The only cut dungeon that people have ever been able to make an educated guess about, AFAIK, is that there was probably meant to be a Wind Temple in Ocarina of Time (which, hilariously enough, was put into Wind Waker).
They could make some relatively simple additions that would make it more fun. Dungeons are too much work. They could add some more forms to the final boss battle and maybe add some more islands. I guess they could use the controller as a map. The great sea itself could be made larger. I'd like to explore the ruins of Hyrule but that would probably be too much work as well.
Lee Chaolan
Member
As long as X doesn't come this year, this is probably my most anticipated title of the year. Never played this on Gamecube. Really excited to.
- Status