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VGLeaks: Durango GPU detailed
- Thread starter phosphor112
- Start date
There's a very good reason folks who are leaking information on this forum and others are not speaking about it; these folks have families and maybe like their jobs. It was only a matter of time before leaks would be traced back and so it's best for them to stop participating in such threads.
And on the subject, so after all the crap settles we will see a repeat of the PS2 generation in terms of console power, just with a bigger gap between them.
Should be very fun to watch it all shake out!
Edit: And yes Lherre is saying nothing now, so obviously something changed from the "Wash" and information was sourced back to him probably. so it's best to leave it be now.
And on the subject, so after all the crap settles we will see a repeat of the PS2 generation in terms of console power, just with a bigger gap between them.
Should be very fun to watch it all shake out!
Edit: And yes Lherre is saying nothing now, so obviously something changed from the "Wash" and information was sourced back to him probably. so it's best to leave it be now.
I agree with you entirely. Just trying to lay it down semi-objectively
If anyone really disrupts in the living room space I'm all for it and my money will follow, but I just don't see it.
Makes no sense in the slightest.
Different names for things that do similar/same jobs on GCN. Btw GCN2 is rumoured to yield 15% improvement in performance per shader compared to GCN.
As far as third-party games are concerned, they will probably be a wash. First party wise, I believe is where you will see the big differences.
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
He said it was a wash a couple of months (at most) a go. He's said the specs haven't changed for a year.
Not sure why his opinion would suddenly change...
Can Crusher
Banned
This isn't true in the slightest.
At best you are looking at Dreamcast vs PS2 or Ps2 vs Gamecube. There's no PS2 -> Xbox leap in sight here, at all.
I'm not that into the specs of both the consoles. Seems they are enough for me.
What I want to point out or just mostly speculate that currently Microsoft is looking at any options to build an ecosystem between different devices powered by their OS. This is clear with tablets, phones and PC's so far. Many have said this before.
Now MS are not stupid and watch the competition carefully nowadays as they don't want a repetition of what happened with iPhone and later with the iPad (Can't talk for Balmer though. I hope there is an adviser for him). They have also noticed Apple's profit margins and the benefits of tying the customers under a single ecosystem that is difficult to leave once you've invested in it enough. You can milk money from them easier and longer. Now Apple has been rumoured/confirmed to be working on a set-topbox for the living rooms and I think MS definitely doesn't want a repetition of getting left with their pants down on that front. They have to counteract when that comes out, or act a bit earlier.
I think the best way to approach this is to expand more to the living room area before Apple has a chance to take hold with their product. Xbox is perfect for this as it already has a foot inside the door a bit like the PS3 has also done. Now I have no idea exactly how they are going to do this as I am just speculating, but definitely they will increase the connectivity between the devices as we have witnessed with attempts to move Xbox to the PC side, now finally succeeding by stamping it as a part of Win 8. Once you buy something on any device, you might be able to use it(or buy cheaper) on other Win devices. Sells more of your ecosystem devices.
Live has already been shown to be a good cash cow so what they want is to expand on it.
Now the Kinect stuff is kind of a black horse. It has been a slow burner, but I have always seen a lot of potential in it. Heck many in my lab use it in their researches and I am considering adding it to mine later. As I look at the specs and wonder at the power difference of Sony and MS, I think they might bundle it with the system. That way any dev can use it, even though it means they can't use a price advantage against Sony by dropping it off. I've seen so many improvements in the AR area for Kinect that I think they need to offer it with the console. This is also why Sony is rumoured to implement a two camera system for PS4. There are benefits for depth perception.
If the consoles are similar in prices I do think it would be wise to offer a basic 99 dollars and 1 year/2 year contract. That way you get you console to as many homes as possible for the company to start trying you to buy the extra services from them.
As a gamer I hope they focus more on the games, and I hope they don't stretch their featureset too wide early on.
Now I say this as a guy who would never trade his Mac back to Windows PC again and I love Sony devices, but I think MS has a lot to offer with the additional stuff and Kinect no matter the specs. They have had a nice few years of Kinect research in the oven, so we might see some neat stuff.
What I want to point out or just mostly speculate that currently Microsoft is looking at any options to build an ecosystem between different devices powered by their OS. This is clear with tablets, phones and PC's so far. Many have said this before.
Now MS are not stupid and watch the competition carefully nowadays as they don't want a repetition of what happened with iPhone and later with the iPad (Can't talk for Balmer though. I hope there is an adviser for him). They have also noticed Apple's profit margins and the benefits of tying the customers under a single ecosystem that is difficult to leave once you've invested in it enough. You can milk money from them easier and longer. Now Apple has been rumoured/confirmed to be working on a set-topbox for the living rooms and I think MS definitely doesn't want a repetition of getting left with their pants down on that front. They have to counteract when that comes out, or act a bit earlier.
I think the best way to approach this is to expand more to the living room area before Apple has a chance to take hold with their product. Xbox is perfect for this as it already has a foot inside the door a bit like the PS3 has also done. Now I have no idea exactly how they are going to do this as I am just speculating, but definitely they will increase the connectivity between the devices as we have witnessed with attempts to move Xbox to the PC side, now finally succeeding by stamping it as a part of Win 8. Once you buy something on any device, you might be able to use it(or buy cheaper) on other Win devices. Sells more of your ecosystem devices.
Live has already been shown to be a good cash cow so what they want is to expand on it.
Now the Kinect stuff is kind of a black horse. It has been a slow burner, but I have always seen a lot of potential in it. Heck many in my lab use it in their researches and I am considering adding it to mine later. As I look at the specs and wonder at the power difference of Sony and MS, I think they might bundle it with the system. That way any dev can use it, even though it means they can't use a price advantage against Sony by dropping it off. I've seen so many improvements in the AR area for Kinect that I think they need to offer it with the console. This is also why Sony is rumoured to implement a two camera system for PS4. There are benefits for depth perception.
If the consoles are similar in prices I do think it would be wise to offer a basic 99 dollars and 1 year/2 year contract. That way you get you console to as many homes as possible for the company to start trying you to buy the extra services from them.
As a gamer I hope they focus more on the games, and I hope they don't stretch their featureset too wide early on.
Now I say this as a guy who would never trade his Mac back to Windows PC again and I love Sony devices, but I think MS has a lot to offer with the additional stuff and Kinect no matter the specs. They have had a nice few years of Kinect research in the oven, so we might see some neat stuff.
Shadow of the BEAST
Banned
the thing is.
When ps2 released it was the most powerful console on the market. It was basically hailed as a super computer fit to launch missiles and what not.
You couldn't say that with third parties or first parties during that generation with Xbox & PS2.
The Xbox was simply better on paper and real world performance.
Sure? because then neither look that good to me: the 7770 is basically the cheapest GPU you can get for a DECENT gaming rig, since anything cheaper will seriously lack power.
IIRC the X360's GPU was one generation ahead of what was on PC at the time, how come we are getting old GPUs now?
shinobi602
Member
When did that happen?
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
They'll probably both be really close, however, Sony's first party will probably better utilize the PS4's advantages to create the next generation's best looking games. Hilarious some people are thinking the PS4 will be 2 times more powerful. I am just happy it isn't using an exotic architecture like last time so now there should be complete parity in third party titles.
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
I've also said: durango was. It's not anymore. Orbis saw a major hardware change last summer. Also, there's already been public information that developers have more confidence in Microsoft's platform.
Performance between the two systems will be very close. Third party games will look basically the same, at least for the first couple of years, at which point either the ram difference will start to matter, or the flop difference will. And if either company "wins," it'll be based on their services and the exclusive content (not games, but content) they deliver first.
Or they'll both tank and no more consoles.
In 2005 Sony said that the Xbox 360 is just a Xbox 1.5
http://www.joystiq.com/2005/05/25/sony-boss-kutaragi-says-f-the-xbox-1-5/
It not true of course.
A Sentient Keyboard
Member
Let's stop beating around the bush, GAF, and get to the real question here; the Durango is how many DSi XL's stapled together?
On a more serious note; this looks better than I expected, and more than enough for me.
On a more serious note; this looks better than I expected, and more than enough for me.
R
Rösti
Unconfirmed Member
I'm 100% certain the NDA prohibits all parties from commenting on the said subject. While Sony has improved considerably since the PS3, there are still some loopholes left however. They're quite difficult to utilize though.
As an example of common practice, here's an excerpt from Nintendo's development site (http://warioworld.com) on what you cannot provide information about:
Architecturally it was, maybe, but in terms of performance it wasn't, IIRC. The PC GPU scene has long ago moved into heat and power ranges not possible to accomodate in a console box. That's why, basically.
SneakyStephan
Banned
You know we are hungry for any info when you start considering Kotaku as a viable source of information for anything ever.
Right...because Sony hasn't provided any of them this gen...
Where is this? I don't see that attitude reflected anywhere but from you. No other posters are saying that and no other gaming sites are reporting this.
That's the part that confuses me. Just reading the current Durango spec leaks causes confusion.
infinityBCRT
Member
I don't know what devs have told Arthur, but I know the original pastebin post (which was the first place on the internet to leak both the Orbis and Durango code names) back in December 2011 said that devs were pissed at the PS4 specs. A lot of what was in that post has turned out to be accurate on the Durango end, so this guy knew what he was talking about: http://pastebin.com/j4jVaUv0
So at some point, maybe what Arthur said was true. But things change.
Manufacturers cannot expect production costs to go down as quickly as they used to in the past.
I guess being close means something different to you? What would you define as close and what do you think will the gap mean with the rumored specs?.
Nemesis121
Member
Price wars?
Didn't that come from an IGN survey a while ago?
shinobi602
Member
Lmao, wow. I had forgotten about that. Shows how arrogant (and completely wrong) they were.
Projectjustice
Banned
You missed out on some good times. lol
it wasn't in the same order he had Durango as the more powerful console.
While it's true that the 360's GPU had some (important) design elements of R600 series which didn't have a consumer version until May 2006, it wasn't quite a generation ahead.
That said, the and PS3 both sold at a pretty big loss for the first few years of their lives, while Durango and Orbis look like they'll make both Microsoft and Sony a lot more money from the very beginning. They're doing this because they've smartened up and realized that there's more to releasing a console than offering large amounts of cash as a burnt offering to "teh hardkorez."
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
What in the world has happened to the games industry?
ok...
lots of timed exclusives it seems?
( i wont make a thread with your posts or anything.)
metareferential
Member
Well, people here is just comparing numbers. And not all numbers, but just the ones you can directly compare.
Ram amount, ROPS and whatnot. "It's half as Orbis"; "it's twice as Durango".
The result is the impression one of the two will largely outperform the direct rival.
It won't be like that.
velociraptor
Junior Member
PS3 had a stronger CPU
360 had a stronger GPU
360 had better RAM (unified vs PS3's split)
PS4 and 720 have the same CPU
PS4 has a stronger GPU
Budget shrinked. Graphics are no longer the absolute priority, nor what will drive sales.
Interfectum
Member
Dat MS bias bleeding through with every post you make.
And that's partly why Sony got rid of Kutaragi.
I can't understand a thing from the leak, but from what most people say, Orbis seems to be more powerfull.
But is the diffference big enough that the average jon doe will notice? We probably will notice it, but we drink and eat videogames. Maybe MS will release a cheaper system, and maybe that's what will count in the end. I don't know...
On a side note, is great to see the console wars rise again. This just means that a new generation is coming!!
But is the diffference big enough that the average jon doe will notice? We probably will notice it, but we drink and eat videogames. Maybe MS will release a cheaper system, and maybe that's what will count in the end. I don't know...
On a side note, is great to see the console wars rise again. This just means that a new generation is coming!!
Glorified G
Member
Ouya
We know way too little to even speculate how large the price gap will be. From looking at the leaks, it seems MS went for more specialized hardware which could be pretty expensive (ESRAM, etc.) Not to mention they could bundle Kinect into every system.
Makes perfect sense. They are pushing the console to sell beyond the gamer base. The gaming portion will still feel "next gen" - a big improvement over the 360. While they are going to push the OS + the other features to the market beyond just the core gaming market.
MS isn't making a gaming system, they are making an entertainment system. I would not be surprised if later down the line, they tried to make this a cable box too.
Yeah, but how much stronger? A lot or a bit? I'm just trying to gauge the graphical difference between the two.
With more available bandwidth on Orbis with a faster GPU I don't see how you can get close performance.
grimshawish
Banned
Aegies didn't drive people in one direction or another; I think people latched on to him but I do think he was a bit less clear than he should have been at the time. Though when I asked stuff he was always forthcoming with a good description of the original source of information.
Others just used it too much and I think he wasn't very accepting of some of the other leaks/rumours coming in. As I wasn't with his. Now more is in, we see whats what. No different from other gaffers fitting pieces of the jigsaw together and only now seeing where those pieces go.
I do still feel he and a few other people on gaf were not open enough to being wrong and often discussed things as if they had watertight info even if they then expanded on that later on.
Others just used it too much and I think he wasn't very accepting of some of the other leaks/rumours coming in. As I wasn't with his. Now more is in, we see whats what. No different from other gaffers fitting pieces of the jigsaw together and only now seeing where those pieces go.
I do still feel he and a few other people on gaf were not open enough to being wrong and often discussed things as if they had watertight info even if they then expanded on that later on.
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