Oddly, it's worse than the insta-kill level 3s. What's even the point then, lol. It should at least last longer. I'd take better supers if they tweaked the confirms.
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PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale |OT| Use Supers to Smash your Bros!
- Thread starter TheMink
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Oddly, it's worse than the insta-kill level 3s. What's even the point then, lol. It should at least last longer. I'd take better supers if they tweaked the confirms.
I think it will encourage Coles to use their other supers - how many decent Cole players have you seen intentionally go for Level 2 or 3? The answer is likely very few, because right now what should be their worst super is really their best. Level 1 is supposed to be the hardest to land and the most skill based, and you'll notice that most of the top tier characters are top tier because their Level 1 is better/equal to their other supers (whether it be due to hit confirms or just being cheap like Sly's).
Hmm.. I don't know. I agree that all the top tier characters have super effective level 1s, but being effective with a level 1 should be a reward in of itself. I know this argument is mostly void because hit confirms exists, but the cost to effort ratio between level 1 and level 2 is one of the more interesting parts of the game's economy.
On paper, level one may land you one kill, level 2 guarantees one kill and may land you multi-kills, and level 3 guarantees you multi-kills.
In most cases though, if I am effective with a level 1 I can get two kills with with two level 1s. I can wait for a level 2, but that second kill is not guaranteed and is therefore not cost effective because of the risk of a whiff. So at high level play, you go for the more cost effective strategy.
Level 1 shouldn't be the worst, it should just require the most skill/timing because it requires least amount of work.
I consider myself pretty good at the game and she is absolutely my least favorite character to vs (drake coming in 2nd). Comparing her to jak? Lol not at all. His red beam is good, but his ap gain from it is low, Kat's can be chained into AP burst combos, Jak's doesn't have the pull in affect from multiple angles so that if one person is under you and one to the side she'll pull both in and combo them, where jak will blast at least one of those away and have to choose which one to continue the combo on. Jaks lvl 1 can't be confirmed, Kat can confirm it from the air, from grabs, from 90 AP combos. Jaks lvl 2 is telegraphed and short range, Kats is aimed, homes in, and can be delayed for mixups. Jaks lvl 3 is God tier as is Kats. Kat has all the makings of every other one of the God tier characters. It's ridiculous that she has literally 4 or 5 hit confirms from combos and all different ways, while most characters struggle to confirm anything. The god tier character. I can't confirm this, but over at Playstation all stars arena they say she's been banned from most tourneys.
Lol k, I said relatively weak. His lvl 1 is tough to confirm and super easy to dodge, and his level 2 while beast, takes some tight timing to get both players who actually have a decent idea of what they are doing. As for his level 3 it is good, but if you got 2 people again who know what they're doing, you can split up and depnding on the map limit him to 2 kills, 3 is a stretch. It's not the weakest, but definitely not his strong point. His strong piont is that his AP is 2nd to none, super easy to learn, and his range is ridiculous.
As for Sly vs. Drake, I think sly just needs to be nerfed in regards to his counter. Seriously make his counter more punishable and a ton of people will drop him. Drake is just ridiculously good.
Movelist:
- Electro magnetic Raccoon Roll: This move should NOT be safe on a wiff. Either remove the bounce back, increase the height of the bounce back (making it punishable with upwards attacks) or have him move through the opponent. The fact that he can just spam this and decoy is OP.
- Decoy: This move is very easy to abuse and can confirm into his level 1. I'd like to see it have more of a cool-down, making mindless spamming easier to punish.
- Invisibility: There should be some form of a time limit or increased visual cues when stationary. He can sometimes just turn invisible and hide when a level 3 super has gone off and good luck finding his ass at all. This would make it a bit more fair. Either by forcing movement on his part to still give off his (very faint) silhouette. Or a time limit, basically to solve the super problem. He's more than safe enough already.
AP
Nerf his... cain combo, the one that ends ina downward smash after he counters. It generates about 60 percent of what he needs for a lvl 1. Slightly excessive.
Supers
Level 3: The hitbox should be slightly smaller. It's so wide currently that it's almost impossible to dodge and requires little skill for the player using it. Or consume slightly more meter per snap.
Since he's so predictable, I'm not sure how well he'd fair with no confirms. It's very hard for players to use him in any ways that would allow him to get inside the players head and through them off. I'm not against removing another confirm or two since he has so many.
I wasn't comparing her totally to Jak; just saying that one tool annoys me more than things like her divekick, heel drop, Air Gravity grab, or neutral triangle, because all of her stuff is more punishable, and leaves her closer in, and doesn't guard break.
She only has 1 real 100% Confirm: The chair hit. She has lots of ways to lead into it, But that's all pretty timing and height dependent: Do the (dive kick, gravity grab, and then the chair), and if the gravity grab was too fast, they flip out. Throw the chair so that they're a little too high, flip out again. Even the Slide into Kick into Super requires a chair. Unlike a Raiden counter, a Drake Barell toss, or a Fatty Soldier dive, these still take some pre-setup. Even her throws, for as great as they are, leave her open to getting super'd in the face.
Since writing that post, I went back online with my old moldy Sir Dan, VS all the high ranked people of the game, and only fought 1 Kat that really impressed me, in about 2 hours of play. Most of The others were too busy doing busy combos, and getting killed in the back, spending too much time away from the battle, thus not getting any real kills, or saving up for lvl 3s they never ended up getting.
Broken hitboxes are a great thing to ban a character for at tourney level, so I can understand that. And with as weak as some characters in this game are, in comparision, I can see wanting to get rid of a particular height.
But I still think she works in a way that would be better for more characters to lead towards, rather than a broken idea that's "too good to fit", y'know? I'd love to see more characters require setup and planning to land their best confirms, and to have powerful supers that leave them so open. I'd love to see characters have more control over constant jumpers and run-away. I'd love to see more characters get more use out of their various throws. I'd love to see characters left punishable because of using high risk/reward moves, and actually getting stuck with very punishable recovery if they whiff.
These are the kind of things that a LOT of this game seems to miss out on; There's so little risk to spamming counters, moving with Sly's Teleport, Drakes Barrel tosses, missing Raiden's lvl 1 or 2, Kratos missing his chains...
And Drake is such a fantastic Anti-Kat... Barrels and his lvl 1 make it so much harder to do anything with her, lol.
What would most like to see done as an adjustment to her AP gain? I'd suggest lowering the limits of the burst, but I never notice any single move doing much more than I'd expect...
I beat most of the kats I run into, but when I run into the ones that have her figured out she is damn near unbeatable. As for Drake he's anti-everyone so no shocker there. As I said she has broken hit bokes so thats a 1 up for her, and unless you're doing them wrong, last I checked she has a 90 AP combo into a lvl 1 confirm. As for the chair one I consider the fact that you can combo into the chair throw then anything that starts a combo involving the chair is a confirm. This is why raiden was amazingly deadly pre-patch and still is. He could combo into his forward square which lead to a confirmed lvl 1.
TMaakkonen
Member
Oh yes Sly. But here is the thing (for me anyways):
Sly has weaknesses.
No dodging, no air dodges and no rolls. Sure he has invisiblity but its not that hard to see Slys. Not to mention Kratoses lv 3 decimates Sly because Sly has no air dodges.
This is why im more tolerable with Sly. Its like developers actually realized that characters need their own weaknesses to compliment strenghts. Just like how Radec and Sackboy arent that combo-melee characters and that Heihachi has power but not ranged attack. There is also the fact that Sly needs to be learned. Althought by now everyone probably has.
So nerf him if you want, but honestly for me id rather nerf some other characters first.
This also brings up why Sir Dan and Big Daddy are bad(/worse than others). They are heavy characters but their AP gain is average. They could use serious AP gain to compliment their slowness(and bad lv1s).
This is the thing about the game I simply don't get... Kratos is blazing fast and an absolute beast in just about every regard, yet he gets monster AP gain. Big Daddy and Sir Dan are ridiculously slow and clunky with large hit boxes... yet they have poor AP gain. On top of this their supers are awful for the most part. Sir Dans lvl 3 is pretty good, his lvl 1 and 2 are terrible though, but Big Daddy's are good outside of his embarrasing lvl 1.
TMaakkonen
Member
Ummm yeah about that. If there wasnt cutscenes supers or FatP's lv 3 Sir Dans level 3 would easily be worst. And it still is one of the worst. There is no way you can get more than 6 kills with it. And in online getting 4 kills can be hard especially on big stages.
This just makes Sir Dan even more sadder.
#1 defender
Member
I've previously said that i'm fine with the belt points system, even though slowly climbing up ranks can be pretty slow when you're playing against lower ranked players and losing up to 15 points if you slip once against similarly low ranked players can be pretty frustrating (although i'm still curious how the big fighting games handle ranking points, i'm certainlyo pen to alternatives). What absolutely grinds my gears though is losing points due to a lost connection at the start of the match. I've been busy with Okami HD and Ni no Kuni this month, so i didn't play a lot of ranked recently, but i decided i'd at least go for the red belt before the end of the season, since i was fairly close to it. So i find a match earlier, get a lost connection at the start of the match and lose 15 points. This happened 3-4 times to me the last week.
I don't even know what to think by now, i'd put it down to the connection being spotty, but curiously this tends to happen when i significantly outrank the other players on the loading screen and i don't have such problems with other games. How is this even a thing? For all i care, just let people quit before the match starts without punishing everyone else, or at least make it so that only continuous quitting within a certain timespan will result in penalties, like in Uncharted 2 mp. Losing large amounts of points when you do badly against lower ranked people is punishing, but at least i know it's because i did badly. However, 15 points gone without even starting the match is aggravating to say the least. The lack of host migration for an online centric game seems like a huge oversight. It's like devs only test the game in perfect conditions and never stop to consider how unsportsmanlike a lot of players can be, but this isn't something only Superbot are guilty of.
Edit: Got back to 84, lost connection... -15 points. >:l
Fix this shit, Santa Monica!
I don't even know what to think by now, i'd put it down to the connection being spotty, but curiously this tends to happen when i significantly outrank the other players on the loading screen and i don't have such problems with other games. How is this even a thing? For all i care, just let people quit before the match starts without punishing everyone else, or at least make it so that only continuous quitting within a certain timespan will result in penalties, like in Uncharted 2 mp. Losing large amounts of points when you do badly against lower ranked people is punishing, but at least i know it's because i did badly. However, 15 points gone without even starting the match is aggravating to say the least. The lack of host migration for an online centric game seems like a huge oversight. It's like devs only test the game in perfect conditions and never stop to consider how unsportsmanlike a lot of players can be, but this isn't something only Superbot are guilty of.
Edit: Got back to 84, lost connection... -15 points. >:l
Fix this shit, Santa Monica!
I think Sly should slowly become more visible the longer he stays invisible, and it slowly resets back to fully invisible as he's visible. That way he can't just be invisible all the time.
And his level 1 still needs a huge nerf. Murray should go like half as far as he does, and there should be a few more startup frames.
And his level 1 still needs a huge nerf. Murray should go like half as far as he does, and there should be a few more startup frames.
Agreed here.
I also have no problems with the electric ball, since you can just jump over it
They don't appear to be in that latest DLC pack, so I don't know wtf is going on there. Kinda weird.
Yep, after picking up Ape Escape on PS1 I've started maining Spike too, although my favorite tactic is getting random Time Net kills before taunting.
"I'm still better than you!"
Lvl 1 is fast, can be confirmed off hop lightning ball, and has a pretty generous hitbox over his head, able to kill enemies on platforms above you, or jumping in. Very easy to multi-kill with, especially if your 2v2 partner sticks the opponents in a combo.
Lvl 2 goes full screen, can be confirmed off banana throw, and is even hard to roll through, as the "after effect" will normally tag those who try and roll past it. I wish it went up/down slopes, but this is a weakness of lots of techniques in this game...
Lvl 3 is pretty solid for getting a few kills in overtime. Watching a Kratos go lvl 3, manage to get no kills, and then doing Spikes lvl 3, and confirming 2, is sweet revenge
Even the 90 ap into grav grab->chair->lvl 1 still roots her pretty well in place to do it. So she's stuck summoning chairs to start, has to be grounded to use the super, and has to sit still after the confirming hit, during which she's open to other supers, with no attackbox around her body to cover anything, since she moves well past the "bomb" she makes...
With proper planning, a lvl-one spamming Kat is a fairly easy character to even out the Kill ratio aganist, because all the things leading to and leading out of this pivotal move make her ripe for killin. The hitbox issues definitely need fixing, but beyond that, I still think a lot of her "OP" traits will start to be normalized as people get more used to playing VS her. Same as with Raiden's confirms becoming a lot less big a deal after people learned to fight him. (And for overall use, I still say his lvl 1 is worlds better than hers)
Lvl 1 is fast, can be confirmed off hop lightning ball, and has a pretty generous hitbox over his head, able to kill enemies on platforms above you, or jumping in. Very easy to multi-kill with, especially if your 2v2 partner sticks the opponents in a combo.
Lvl 2 goes full screen, can be confirmed off banana throw, and is even hard to roll through, as the "after effect" will normally tag those who try and roll past it. I wish it went up/down slopes, but this is a weakness of lots of techniques in this game...
Lvl 3 is pretty solid for getting a few kills in overtime. Watching a Kratos go lvl 3, manage to get no kills, and then doing Spikes lvl 3, and confirming 2, is sweet revenge
Lol, that's being more than a little generous. His Level 1 is decent, I'll give you that, but Level 2 is garbage. It's the same thing as Dante and Radec's Level 2, except it moves at a snail's pace and is extremely easy to dodge. I don't think I've ever been caught by the "after effect" you're talking about. And the fact that it is stopped by the tiniest of slopes ruins any other potential it had.
His Level 3 is automatically poor due to being a cinematic, but I suspect this was done because of Spike's good AP gain.
If they do some Spike balancing, in addition to some super buffing I hope they make him less of a Jak-like character who relies on just a few moves, namely his Banana Radar, Bananarang, Shock Gun, and Stun Clubs. Spike's got so many worthless gadgets:
-Boxing Glove is too slow and short-ranged to be of use
-Slingshot is hard to hit with and gives little AP
-RC Car leaves you wide open to attack
-Hula Hoop gives middling AP and doesn't even make you go fast like it does in the Ape Escape games (it actually makes you slower)
-Teleport takes too long to get going, unlike Sly and Sackboy's
-Sky Flyer could be used as a super jump in Ape Escape, but can only be used to float in PSAS
TMaakkonen
Member
Spike is complicated.... Supers are super crap.... But moveset is wonderful and effective.
Level 1 super is bad. Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad. Heihachi's is much better. And that air-down-triangle kill confirm? Its terrible! Misses so many times. I have only been able to get 3 kills at once with it online once. And thats only because im still better than you(gotta love that taunt)
There is only one redeeming value about Spike's level 2 super. Easy kill confirm. If that wouldnt exist it would be even worse level 2. Now its just one of the worst. Its a joke. Radec's level 2 goes throu walls. Kratos' goes throu walls. Spike's? LOLNO it stops on wall. Also its patheticly small.
Level 3 is cutscene nuff said. Too expensive at 600 AP. Maybe id pass with 500 AP cost.
But moveset? Its great! All Stun Club moves and Giant Sword are great moves. Monkey radar is also effective. Sure a lot of moves are ineffective but these are soooo good moves it doesnt mind me as much.
Its kinda funny, id say Spike is one of the worst FFA characters but also one of the best 1v1 characters.
And guys. Triangle is not RC car. Its mini-satellite from Million Monkeys(I guess). it doesnt look like RC car at all. Also why would RC car spawn thunder? ._.
Level 1 super is bad. Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad. Heihachi's is much better. And that air-down-triangle kill confirm? Its terrible! Misses so many times. I have only been able to get 3 kills at once with it online once. And thats only because im still better than you(gotta love that taunt
)There is only one redeeming value about Spike's level 2 super. Easy kill confirm. If that wouldnt exist it would be even worse level 2. Now its just one of the worst
. Its a joke. Radec's level 2 goes throu walls. Kratos' goes throu walls. Spike's? LOLNO it stops on wall. Also its patheticly small.Level 3 is cutscene nuff said. Too expensive at 600 AP. Maybe id pass with 500 AP cost.
But moveset? Its great! All Stun Club moves and Giant Sword are great moves. Monkey radar is also effective. Sure a lot of moves are ineffective but these are soooo good moves it doesnt mind me as much.
Its kinda funny, id say Spike is one of the worst FFA characters but also one of the best 1v1 characters.
And guys. Triangle is not RC car. Its mini-satellite from Million Monkeys(I guess). it doesnt look like RC car at all. Also why would RC car spawn thunder? ._.
I addressed those weaknesses you mention on the lvl 2, So... I've seen lots caught in the after-effect, and been caught in it, the amount of "WTH, I DODGED THAT!" Heard from it is pretty large, in my experience of playing, and playing alongside him. That's not to say the super couldn't be stronger, but at least it has the Banana-rang confirm, right? It's easy to dodge, but so are Radec's and Dante's, and they are considerable less so, if used at the right times (like VS untechable drop recovery, of when people are starting uninterruptable portions of combos.) I'd love to see the move given some mix-up potential by being able to charge it for a moment, to greatly increase it's size and speed.
I like how Good Cole's lvl 2 actually follows the terrain, and has a more obvious height to it; More horizontal supers should work in that way. Even bouncing off walls wouldn't be a bad idea, especially if paired with a set, longer lasting time.
As far as his lvl 3, I'd rather have a cinematic super that is undodgeable, and guarentees kills, than an easily-avoided super that takes too long for it's effect to work, and is nearly worthless on large stages, like Fat Princess or Dan's. Especially with the way people will Run and consta-jump in the last 13 or so seconds of a round. It's a good Anti-timer scam tool, and is helpful at eating other stronger lvl 2's if used as a counter.
Yeah, I can agree to these. Ratchet's lazer wall is a much better version of what RC car tries to be. Day one of boxing glove, I wondered "who'se going to get hit by this? any why not just use Banannarang or triple nana instead?" I'd have rather seen Hula end up like Big Daddy's ground Pound, or Fat Princess Ballet spin.
I'd Wish Spike's teleport could take him in a wider variety of directions, and I'd rather see Sly and Sackboy's changed to his style start or recovery speed, because their are a bit too good and easy.
Sky Flier as a super jump wouldn't be too much different than what Sackboy does with his spring already, and wouldn't have the added bonus of tossing your opponent in the air with you, so having it as a super jump would be great for his mobility and banana-tossing game.
Spike is complicated.... Supers are super crap.... But moveset is wonderful and effective.
Level 1 super is bad. Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad. Heihachi's is much better. And that air-down-triangle kill confirm? Its terrible! Misses so many times. I have only been able to get 3 kills at once with it online once. And thats only because im still better than you(gotta love that taunt
Eh...? I have an easier time avoiding "Dooo-ShiiiI!" than Spikes. It's start-up time seems a bit slower, and I doubt it has as much vertical hitbox. Spike's covers an arch from over his head until it hits the ground, Heihachi's only confirms on impact.
I do think the Kill confirm should freeze you for a bit longer, allowing higher-air shocks to confirm the lvl 1.
My bad, Million Monkeys is one of the few Ape Escape games I haven't played (why hasn't Sony done an HD Collection with Ape Escape 2, 3, and Million Monkeys yet?). Although technically, it is called the RC Satellite Laser, so I was half-right.
Sackboy's teleport is somewhat balanced since you have to set it up first, but yeah, Sly's needs to have longer recovery speed or something. Spike being able to move in different directions would definitely make it worth using.
TMaakkonen
Member
Why do I think opposite? Heihachi's feels much faster. And while Spike does have bigger range in arc honestly, its not much. Patchetic range on both of them i guess then. I think I have come to like Heihachi as he has a lot of lag-kill confirms.
Also I keep hearing Heihachi saying "YOSHI!". lol
But what then? WHAT THEN?!!!
There are several effective ways to deal with spammy electric roll. The only thing to note is never go in head on unless you're one of those characters with an impossibly fast startup for a melee move (i.e. Drake or Kratos).
Usually you want come down with a slam or at a diagonal. If your character has ranged options with minimal startup, this is also effective. Lastly, any eject move at least keeps the pressure off.
You can also back Sly into a corner, dodge quickly and pop off your level 1. Any level 2 is also effective.
Agree to disagree then. I don't play FFA, but his lvl 3 is fine for 2v2. You can get at the very least 2 kills, sometimes 4. It's not great, but it's better than a screen wipe, especially since if you plan right you can get 4 kills.
Lvl 1 is fast, can be confirmed off hop lightning ball, and has a pretty generous hitbox over his head, able to kill enemies on platforms above you, or jumping in. Very easy to multi-kill with, especially if your 2v2 partner sticks the opponents in a combo.
Lvl 2 goes full screen, can be confirmed off banana throw, and is even hard to roll through, as the "after effect" will normally tag those who try and roll past it. I wish it went up/down slopes, but this is a weakness of lots of techniques in this game...
Lvl 3 is pretty solid for getting a few kills in overtime. Watching a Kratos go lvl 3, manage to get no kills, and then doing Spikes lvl 3, and confirming 2, is sweet revenge
Even the 90 ap into grav grab->chair->lvl 1 still roots her pretty well in place to do it. So she's stuck summoning chairs to start, has to be grounded to use the super, and has to sit still after the confirming hit, during which she's open to other supers, with no attackbox around her body to cover anything, since she moves well past the "bomb" she makes...
With proper planning, a lvl-one spamming Kat is a fairly easy character to even out the Kill ratio aganist, because all the things leading to and leading out of this pivotal move make her ripe for killin. The hitbox issues definitely need fixing, but beyond that, I still think a lot of her "OP" traits will start to be normalized as people get more used to playing VS her. Same as with Raiden's confirms becoming a lot less big a deal after people learned to fight him. (And for overall use, I still say his lvl 1 is worlds better than hers)
To the spike stuff first. His lvl 1 is ok because it can be confirmed. His lvl 2 is very mediocre, it's very easy to dodge, and it's ridiculously hard to get 2 kils with... it's really a waste given his lvl 1, however it also can be confirmed. His lvl 3 is decent for overtime kills? That doesn't make sense it's a screen wipe.
As for Kat, again I don't play FFA, but yeah a lvl 1 spamming ANYBODY is easy to combat. I'm not talking about this game from a noob perspective, and I'm not selling myself as "great", but I've playe quite a bit, and win the majority of my matches. I've played against her a ton, but I've played some top tier Kats and she is nearly unbeatable when used right, period. This is the reason she has been banned from most tourneys. If you play Kat and really don't want her nerfed I'm sorry, it's probably coming, and if you ever want to play in tourneys you will need to pick a different char. I'm not trying to crap all over your character, but it's pretty obvious she's ridiculously OP. As for getting used to raiden, it's fine I agree you can get used to him, but he's still OP.
I agree, it's all about planning, timing and spacing. It's far from bad if done right. I suppose that can go for quite a few supers, though specifically with Dan, where and when you activate it is very important.
Fidelis Hodie
Infidelis Cras
I think I'm only perpetuating the drake hate. Teabagging, spam dancing after every kill. I'm pretty deadly with that lvl 1 though, especially in 2v2 and it's just me against the other two.
Honestly though, as much time as I put in it only makes me wish Brawl had a better online. I'll take what I can get though. This game is awesome.
Honestly though, as much time as I put in it only makes me wish Brawl had a better online. I'll take what I can get though. This game is awesome.
Whats your username? Also yeah it's pretty annoying seeing a drake teabag just given the fact that he's ridiculously overpowered, but w/e.
Wha? Sir Dan will rarely get 4 kills with his Level 3 unless you're on a stage like Dojo where it's unavoidable. Even if you manage to activate it with both opponents in range (which will almost never happen because nobody's dumb enough to let you do it), they'll still respawn in two different spots, and they'll likely split up which means Dan will get around 3 kills on average.
Sure, it's still more kills than a cinematic super, but all the characters with cinematics (except maybe Heihachi) won't need to even bother going for theirs since they'll be able to get at least 3 kills if not more by the time Sir Dan uses his Level 3 thanks to an easy Level 1 hit confirm (Toro) or good AP gain (PaRappa and Spike).
But it still has that potential for more than 2. I'm not saying it's great, but it's not the worst by any stretch. Fat Princesses is the worst, basically because you have no control over it.
I think to be worse than Fat Princess's Level 3 they'd have to make a super where you explode and kill yourself.
Well, even that could be balanced =p Imagine scoring two points per person you've killed (in the blast radius), but losing one from your own death. Then it's a high risk, high reward super =D
But off the top of my head, that super wouldn't be suitable for any characters.
This is getting too deep now. The combat should've been more simple, they've made a plethora of balancing issues in bringing in this super system. Really lends more to the argument that they should've used some sort of health system.
Troubled Bat
Member
While the explosion misses every character.
That's what it has come down to is hit confirms, because at the end of the day it's about supers, the only way to kill your opponent. The problem is if the game is about that and getting your opponent in a position where you can pull off your hit confirm (or get to a higher lvl which rewards you with an easier confirm or easier kill), but only a handful of characters are great at this, and again those top 3 are just so amazing at it... I would stretch it to 4 or 5 with the order being- 1. Kat 2. Drake 3. Raiden 4. Kratos 5. Sly
This is followed by a couple others who have ridiculously easy confirms and multiple ways to come at you such as- Fat Princess, Evil Cole, Good Cole.
Then of course there is the mid tier- Parappa, Toro, etc.
and finally
Big Daddy, and sir Daniel.
Again there is no such thing as a perfectly balanced fighting game, but damn the top tier is SO much higher than the 2nd tier, which is SO much higher than the 3rd tier, which is about normally higher from the 4th.
edit- Went on a tangent there.
If a second one happens Sony must first secure some big name characters. Sony marketed on 1 part nostalgia (polygon man, sweeth tooth and parappa) 1 part big name appeal (Kratos, Drake, Big Daddy) and then a bunch of randoms basically. There's obviously more to it than that, but the main characters they seemed to be pushing were Parappa- Solid, Kratos- great, Drake- great, Fat princess- WTF?!, and some others. They needed more of each with bigger names in each category. Here's how they could make this a success IMO.
1. Bring big names and nostalgia together- Crash Bandicoot, Spyro, Cloud, Sephiroth, etc. There need to be once big name characters in there. Parappa was a decent sized game, but never an iconic game in the gaming market. Crash was the mascot for the PS1, Cloud/Sephiroth are arguably 2 of the most popular characters from one of the biggest series ever.
2. Bigger Big names- Drake and Kratos are nice, more recently popular gaming characters, but there are not only bigger, but ones that have been around longer as well. Big Daddy had the right idea of going 3rd party, but he's not quite big enough. They got the wrong character from the metal gear series... they used the wrong Dante character model... they even got the wrong character from tekken IMO.
3. Finally playability- So from everybody I've talked to about this game they either know very few characters in the game, or have no idea how it is played. I was talking recently with a few friends and they kept asking... well how do you play defense? What's the point of attacking a specific character? Well the fact is when you dig in it all makes sense, but at the same time, it causes all the problems I mentioned above in terms of the unbalance with supers and hit confirms. EIiher they need to add in a factor of how quickly characters lose their ap, or for that matter ways to effectively decrease AP, better than just throws or the occasional item. Again this is getting too deep.... scrap it all together, incorporate ring outs and a health system, and you have a damn good game on your hands.
TMaakkonen
Member
I can agree that cinematic supers and FatP's level 3 are worse than Sir Dan's. But honestly thats not good enough. Sir Dan's super is 15th best level 3? Doesnt sound good at all.
As for sequel just add Crash Spyro SolidSnake and Cloud. Thats it. Thats what everyone wants and if that cant be done then dont do sequel. Also no terrible 3rd party characters and Fat P for cover.
Big Daddy is stupid. Nobody wanted him. He is in cover. He is in backcover screenshots(atleast in EU cover). He has 2 stages. Item. A lot of Buzz! questions in that stage. And he is one of the worst characters ingame. WHY IS HE HERE. And no the bare things that are good about him are not enough..
As for game system why not both? We can have both super-only and lifebar systems. Lifebar system would be needed if we wanted to get good arcade mode with better bosses.
As for sequel just add Crash Spyro SolidSnake and Cloud. Thats it. Thats what everyone wants and if that cant be done then dont do sequel. Also no terrible 3rd party characters and Fat P for cover.
Big Daddy is stupid. Nobody wanted him. He is in cover. He is in backcover screenshots(atleast in EU cover). He has 2 stages. Item. A lot of Buzz! questions in that stage. And he is one of the worst characters ingame. WHY IS HE HERE. And no the bare things that are good about him are not enough..
As for game system why not both? We can have both super-only and lifebar systems. Lifebar system would be needed if we wanted to get good arcade mode with better bosses.
I can agree that cinematic supers and FatP's level 3 are worse than Sir Dan's. But honestly thats not good enough. Sir Dan's super is 15th best level 3? Doesnt sound good at all.
As for sequel just add Crash Spyro SolidSnake and Cloud. Thats it. Thats what everyone wants and if that cant be done then dont do sequel. Also no terrible 3rd party characters and Fat P for cover.
Big Daddy is stupid. Nobody wanted him. He is in cover. He is in backcover screenshots(atleast in EU cover). He has 2 stages. Item. A lot of Buzz! questions in that stage. And he is one of the worst characters ingame. WHY IS HE HERE. And no the bare things that are good about him are not enough..
As for game system why not both? We can have both super-only and lifebar systems. Lifebar system would be needed if we wanted to get good arcade mode with better bosses.
Because then you have to balance based on both of the fighting systems.
TMaakkonen
Member
Well we have super system some what working now. If they could fix some minor things all major balances could be used to work on something else. Alternativly give different AP gains and such for lifebar system.
#1 defender
Member
That's just an assumption, but it might be because Sony wouldn't make any money on costumes for third party characters, which is why they were only a pre-order incentive. Would have been nice to have known that in advance though, as i actually like 3/4 of the third party costumes, whereas i'm neutral on the majority of the first party costumes.
Off topic, is anyone up for some ranked 2v2? I barely played 2v2 this month, as my partner from last month wasn't avaliable, but would like to reach green belt at least. I'm currently a blue belt with 68 points, so it shouldn't take too long to reach green belt.
Napalm_Frank
Member
I can if ya want. Haven't played for a while myself :d.
#1 defender
Member
Unfortunately I don't think it would work that way.
Username? I could use some good Drakes to practice against!
#1 defender
Member
Oh wow, i won a FFA against the current number 1 on the leaderboards. Of course i'd get my ass whooped if it was a 1v1, but still, my 15 minutes of fame.
I get matched up against people from the top 20 fairly often and usually it doesn't end too well, so this was nice.
Maybe i should've taken a photo of the winning screen though. >.<
I get matched up against people from the top 20 fairly often and usually it doesn't end too well, so this was nice.
Maybe i should've taken a photo of the winning screen though. >.<