IAmRei
Member
I heard 4 nintendo games had 90+(?) Nintendo 2023 is rocking for me, they had lot of great achievement this year
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Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
It looks excellent. First Mario in YEARSSS that I am interested in playing.
Having played the first two worlds I'm hard pressed to think anyone outside of Nintendo that could produce a 2D platform of the same level as Super Mario Bros. Wonder.
The creativity infused to the game and overall polish to everything (from level design to animations) is truly stunning.
Of course Nintendo is in the enviable position to have popularized the genre back in the mid '80s therefore they have accumulated lots of knowledge and are assured to smash the sales of any "otherwise" competitors in the same genre.
Having a game production without a set deadline is a rare privilege possible only because Nintendo's management understand the importance to try to produce stone classics (financially too) and Nintendo is so rich that can afford what other can't (again owning th genre king helps the decision).
Nintendo owns a bunch of genre kings accumulated through decades of incessant effort.
Interfectum
Member
Got to world 6 over the weekend. Goddamn this game is legit good. Constant surprises around every corner.
BlackTron
Member
Yeah I intentionally played Superstars first, for a reason. It was the right call, I was definitely able to enjoy it more without that competition. It's nice to have both at the same time though, adds to the 90s flavor of both games to have its complement on deck lol
ResurrectedContrarian
Suffers with mild autism
They also have the particular advantage of long-tail sales on all their lead franchises, where the price of a Mario or Zelda game essentially never drops and it keeps selling like a new title for years. Given that pattern, they can much more comfortably invest in a title knowing that it will continue to generate revenue for a very long time after release.
For whatever reason, the other platforms always feel more like "this is the big title for the month, but in 6 months it will be budget priced and everyone will have forgotten about it." There's a strong FOMO-then-forget cycle of releases.
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amigastar
Member
Mario was always a few leagues better than Sonic.
gaming_again
Member
Sonic people at school were always total weirdos.
Astral Dog
Member
Not sure about this, a company like SEGA should be able to produce something more valuable than Sonic Superstars, they been working on the genre almost as much as Nintendo, and its their premier gaming mascot yet they struggle...
ResurrectedContrarian
Suffers with mild autism
I've always thought Sonic level design is fundamentally deficient and beyond saving, since the very start of the franchise, even the beloved titles.
The speed / animation / graphics etc was very cool on the old SEGA systems so that made it fun to play, but it never had the design talent to stick around once that effect wore off
Disco Dave
Member
BlackTron
Member
Back when it was Super Mario World vs Sonic 2, I thought World did have more depth but Sonic 2 still did its own different thing very well, and it was nice to have both flavors. The level design in 1 began to suffer after early game, but 2 was a massive improvement there.
Oh man, can't wait to start playing this game. The initial reveal with the weird text bubbles had me skeptical but it seems that everyone and their mothers are having a great time with this game.
First finishing Tales of Symphonia though, I forgot how long that game was. Should get it done by next weekend though and then Mario will probably be my next game.
First finishing Tales of Symphonia though, I forgot how long that game was. Should get it done by next weekend though and then Mario will probably be my next game.
NecrosaroIII
Ask me about my terrible takes on Star Trek characters
My god, just ran into a level that was almost definitely inspires by sml2
I ran into some sort of controller bug today, the buttons on my pro controller got all messed up in the game (like I couldn't even go to the home screen, the button didn't work, it would make my character jump, lol). I remember someone mentioning laggy controls somewhere else, it started off like that and eventually all the controls were jacked. Had to turn off the console and restart with a different controller before it would work again. Bizarre. Never had that happen with any game ever on any console.
BlackTron
Member
What level?
IAmRei
Member
let it be, let it be, let it be, let it beeeOh, I don't want people to not have fun. I fully intend on playing through this game eventually.
I just feel like I'm constantly not seeing what other people are seeing.
jokes aside, i'm quite understand with what you mean tho
NecrosaroIII
Ask me about my terrible takes on Star Trek characters
I forgot what it's called but basically once you hit the wonder seed, it's basically the star maze from space zone.
BlackTron
Member
Can't recall this and I'm almost done with the game, is it Special World? Maybe I glossed over it...and there might be a few normal levels I skipped.
NecrosaroIII
Ask me about my terrible takes on Star Trek characters
I think it was in w2
Can't replace competence and ambition.
Sega worked for a long time on Sonic games but most of it was for producing middling outings.
When was the last time a Sonic game turn the industry heads? Sonic Adventure on Dreamcast? The Mega Drive trilogy? We are talking about the '90s anyway.
Nowadays Nintendo's "second tier" 2D platform game franchises (Kirby, Donkey Kong Country, Yoshi) sell as well or better than Sonic (around 3-5 million units).
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Daniel Thomas MacInnes
GAF's Resident Saturn Omnibus
Super Mario Wonder reminds you not only how great the classic 2D Marios are, it also exposes just how lazy and uninspired the NSMB has been. I’m reminded of all The Rolling Stones albums made after 1978: competent, enjoyable, but lacking any spark of imagination and fun. New Super Mario U Deluxe just bores me to tears, and I just cannot be bothered. Even today, I tried playing a couple stages and walked away with a yawn and a shrug.
Wonder is so much better and creatively fertile, one would think the game was created by an entirely new team, not 4/5 of the original Super Mario Bros crew. We finally have a true successor to Super Mario World and Yoshi’s Island, and I honestly never thought we’d get a videogame like this. I assumed Nintendo simply stopped caring about 2D Mario.
I love the cartoon animation with its hand drawn look, an emphasis monkey animation frames and fluid animation. Everything just sparkles with life. It’s so much fun to see goombas freaking out when getting stomped, watching Mario wiggle in and out of pipes, enjoying Elephant Mario spraying water everywhere. The NDMB characters were so clearly polygonal and felt very mechanical, lifeless. And let’s not get into that series’ heavier physics and greasy controls.
One of my favorite things in Wonder is how Mario’s butt stomp is followed by a rim shot (ba-dum-tssh). That is just comedy gold, and thanks to the elimination of any time limit, I find myself just making bad jokes and bouncing over and over. I’m reminded how Super Mario 64 openly encouraged you to stop “playing” and just goof off, and I probably had as much fun dive moving into the castle pond and butt-sliding down the banisters as anything.
The color design is fantastic and I wish modern videogames would steal this look. Everything just pops and it all has such a vibrant Super Nintendo vibe. Now I really want a new Super Metroid that uses this graphics engine. I wish Metroid Dread looked like this, instead of that cold, silvery metallic look that defines “serious” videogames in the PlayStation/Xbox era.
Oh, and another request: give us a new Super Mario All-Stars that uses the Wonder engine, including remakes of Super Mario World and Yoshi’s Island. Tell me that wouldn’t be spectacular.
Wonder is so much better and creatively fertile, one would think the game was created by an entirely new team, not 4/5 of the original Super Mario Bros crew. We finally have a true successor to Super Mario World and Yoshi’s Island, and I honestly never thought we’d get a videogame like this. I assumed Nintendo simply stopped caring about 2D Mario.
I love the cartoon animation with its hand drawn look, an emphasis monkey animation frames and fluid animation. Everything just sparkles with life. It’s so much fun to see goombas freaking out when getting stomped, watching Mario wiggle in and out of pipes, enjoying Elephant Mario spraying water everywhere. The NDMB characters were so clearly polygonal and felt very mechanical, lifeless. And let’s not get into that series’ heavier physics and greasy controls.
One of my favorite things in Wonder is how Mario’s butt stomp is followed by a rim shot (ba-dum-tssh). That is just comedy gold, and thanks to the elimination of any time limit, I find myself just making bad jokes and bouncing over and over. I’m reminded how Super Mario 64 openly encouraged you to stop “playing” and just goof off, and I probably had as much fun dive moving into the castle pond and butt-sliding down the banisters as anything.
The color design is fantastic and I wish modern videogames would steal this look. Everything just pops and it all has such a vibrant Super Nintendo vibe. Now I really want a new Super Metroid that uses this graphics engine. I wish Metroid Dread looked like this, instead of that cold, silvery metallic look that defines “serious” videogames in the PlayStation/Xbox era.
Oh, and another request: give us a new Super Mario All-Stars that uses the Wonder engine, including remakes of Super Mario World and Yoshi’s Island. Tell me that wouldn’t be spectacular.
veterangamerUK
Member
The difference is Nintendo games don’t tell you “press X to jump”. You have to know yourself when to. That’s a tiny part of the magic, no handholding like you pussies now are used to
yes, the game teaches you what happens in every level. It doesn't tell you "These are Blakundins, they jump when you jump", you just see it.
Though overall, the game hasn't enthralled me right now.
BlackTron
Member
The underground theme is REAL smb2 vibes
Unknown Soldier
Member
The creator of Sonic said that he came up with the idea of Sonic by playing OG Super Mario Bros on Famicom and he was rushing through to clear faster and thinking he should make a game like it except you're supposed to go really fast.
That's literally it, that's the whole idea behind Sonic. It was creatively bankrupt from Day 0. There was never anything else of substance behind Sonic besides Gotta Go Fast. No one should be surprised the Sonic franchise has hardly ever had a good game.
AJUMP23
Gold Member
I thought I was harsh but fair to Sonic....you went scorched earth.
apple_of_enlightenment
Member
The Mario and the Sonic character which followed are both based on physical irony: the idea that a fat plumber can be the athlete and that the slowest of creatures can be the fastest. The latter is the pastiche however, and never got anywhere the heights of the Mario catalogue.
I'm a few worlds through Wonder. Contrary to the options on these specialist forums, this game has a lot of problems, despite level design greatness splashed around here and there:
Never has there been so much padding in a Mario game. The constant really bad dialog from flower people in the cutscenes;
Loading times into levels are a little bit too long for a 2D Mario;
The world maps are an eyesore and a pain to navigate;
Badges could be interesting, but also put another barrier of entry to being able to just get on with the game;
Joy con pairing as usual is a pain when jumping from different player numbers;
Graphics are nice... But provide a lot of noise that gets in the way of platforming;
The Wonder mechanic... well it's interesting but it's not quite right is it. Some of the levels are a little superficial and silly around it.
Levels are short. This doesn't have to be a problem, but from a strictly platforming perspective (so far) they are categorically not as good as NSMBW or NSMBU. Sometimes I was left feeling, is that it?
Multiplay doesn't work as well as NSMB series, because there's no collision between the players and the player with the crown ends up leaving the other players behind too much. The ghosts have a hard time catching up.
Mini training levels are fun, but counter to the intuitivity that usually comes naturally in a Mario game;
Where were you Miyamoto? Oh yes, making theme parks and movies;
Someone above pointed out the cool drumroll on the buttstomp -- it is cool, but how long before it get tired? Same for losing the hat going into pipes. This is hit and run game design;
There are other things, but I don't want to embarrass myself too much in case I change my mind being just 4 worlds in.
I'm a few worlds through Wonder. Contrary to the options on these specialist forums, this game has a lot of problems, despite level design greatness splashed around here and there:
Never has there been so much padding in a Mario game. The constant really bad dialog from flower people in the cutscenes;
Loading times into levels are a little bit too long for a 2D Mario;
The world maps are an eyesore and a pain to navigate;
Badges could be interesting, but also put another barrier of entry to being able to just get on with the game;
Joy con pairing as usual is a pain when jumping from different player numbers;
Graphics are nice... But provide a lot of noise that gets in the way of platforming;
The Wonder mechanic... well it's interesting but it's not quite right is it. Some of the levels are a little superficial and silly around it.
Levels are short. This doesn't have to be a problem, but from a strictly platforming perspective (so far) they are categorically not as good as NSMBW or NSMBU. Sometimes I was left feeling, is that it?
Multiplay doesn't work as well as NSMB series, because there's no collision between the players and the player with the crown ends up leaving the other players behind too much. The ghosts have a hard time catching up.
Mini training levels are fun, but counter to the intuitivity that usually comes naturally in a Mario game;
Where were you Miyamoto? Oh yes, making theme parks and movies;
Someone above pointed out the cool drumroll on the buttstomp -- it is cool, but how long before it get tired? Same for losing the hat going into pipes. This is hit and run game design;
There are other things, but I don't want to embarrass myself too much in case I change my mind being just 4 worlds in.
NeoIkaruGAF
Gold Member
All very valid points.
Many levels are awfully short if you don’t get the wonderseed, and there’s times when the wonder effect is too short and scripted to make an impression.
I don’t think removing the time limit was a net win. It was rarely that strict in the past, and it made for some interesting twists when it actually was.
Daniel Thomas MacInnes
GAF's Resident Saturn Omnibus
I wish to state for the record that the Mario Wonder butt-stomp rimshot will never get old. Ba-DUM-DSH!!
apple_of_enlightenment
Member
I've changed my mind and already feel embarrassed. Probably having a dialog with myself here but anyway. I think most of the above points still stand, but they're nitpicks. Been playing 4 player and having a whale of a time. One of the best games in years.
ReBurn
Gold Member
The flower dialog is better if you change the language to one you don't understand. It became charming to me instead of grating. The game has its rough spots but I found it to be a lot of fun.
GigaBowser
The bear of bad news
Does the music harv that crud Wah Wah Wah! stuff??
I want to play this but the music scared my ears in NSMB
I want to play this but the music scared my ears in NSMB
ReBurn
Gold Member
The singing piranha plants are the stuff of nightmares.Does the music harv that crud Wah Wah Wah! stuff??
I want to play this but the music scared my ears in NSMB
Astral Dog
Member
No i would argue the music is one of SMW strong pointsDoes the music harv that crud Wah Wah Wah! stuff??
I want to play this but the music scared my ears in NSMB
apple_of_enlightenment
Member
The rhythm music levels are extraordinary. Mario's jump animations adapt only on these sections which is very effective
AV
We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
Rolled credits last night.
The best 2D Mario game in 33 years which is a fucking wild thing to say out loud.
Loved how out-there they went with it, really feels like the Switch generation has been taken over by a fresh set of talent that's injecting their own weirdness into beloved templates. Set the flower voiceover to Japanese which was great. Levels felt the perfect length, so often felt just like I'd had enough of a level when I got to the flag room. Not bothering with the bonus difficulty levels as I've got other stuff to play but it's really cool that this seems to be the hardest Mario game since the 90s to 100%.
Especially loved any of the rhythm stuff, reminded me of Rayman Origins/Legends (and then made me sad that we haven't had a third).
Top 10 list this year is gonna be really, really difficult to whittle down.
The best 2D Mario game in 33 years which is a fucking wild thing to say out loud.
Loved how out-there they went with it, really feels like the Switch generation has been taken over by a fresh set of talent that's injecting their own weirdness into beloved templates. Set the flower voiceover to Japanese which was great. Levels felt the perfect length, so often felt just like I'd had enough of a level when I got to the flag room. Not bothering with the bonus difficulty levels as I've got other stuff to play but it's really cool that this seems to be the hardest Mario game since the 90s to 100%.
Especially loved any of the rhythm stuff, reminded me of Rayman Origins/Legends (and then made me sad that we haven't had a third).
Top 10 list this year is gonna be really, really difficult to whittle down.
calistan
Member
I got tired of this way too quickly, so I've barely touched it in the last week or two. I'm on the final approach to Bowser but I've lost the urge to finish it.
Need to get through it and explore the special levels. Maybe those are more interesting, I only tried the first one where you turn into a goomba.
I really dislike the Charles Martinet impersonator they got to do the voices. He's shrill, charmless, and completely over the top - I know Martinet wasn't exactly restrained, but that 'wowee zowee' line that Luigi does when he gets the elephant powerup is total cringe.
Also, I don't think much of the elephant powerup, I wish I could disable it so I never have to see it again. It's just dumb to have a superpower that lets you smash through walls and enemies with ease, and then make it so it isn't some rare bonus, like an invincibility star or whatever. Every time I get an elephant I'm like, not this unfunny shit again, just give me a fire flower. It's in almost every level.
Need to get through it and explore the special levels. Maybe those are more interesting, I only tried the first one where you turn into a goomba.
I really dislike the Charles Martinet impersonator they got to do the voices. He's shrill, charmless, and completely over the top - I know Martinet wasn't exactly restrained, but that 'wowee zowee' line that Luigi does when he gets the elephant powerup is total cringe.
Also, I don't think much of the elephant powerup, I wish I could disable it so I never have to see it again. It's just dumb to have a superpower that lets you smash through walls and enemies with ease, and then make it so it isn't some rare bonus, like an invincibility star or whatever. Every time I get an elephant I'm like, not this unfunny shit again, just give me a fire flower. It's in almost every level.
NeoIkaruGAF
Gold Member
I don’t understand what issue people have with the talking flowers. They can get a little annoying in the hardest levels if you die repeatedly, but their annoyingness is being way overblown like the wah wah in NSMB and the music in Yoshi’s New Island.
The main levels are a walk in the park compared to some stuff seen in the NSMB series. As for the special levels, there‘s hardly anything that gets close to some nightmare-inducing stages in NSMB, and that’s not even mentioning Luigi U. The special levels in Wonder are incredibly short.
About the elephant, you’re not wrong but it seems to me that the fire flower is wayyyyy more powerful than in previous games because there’s very few enemies that are immune to fire. The flowers themselves are anything but scarce, too.
Whaaaaaaat?
The main levels are a walk in the park compared to some stuff seen in the NSMB series. As for the special levels, there‘s hardly anything that gets close to some nightmare-inducing stages in NSMB, and that’s not even mentioning Luigi U. The special levels in Wonder are incredibly short.
Agreed on the new voice, it’s more miss than hit.
About the elephant, you’re not wrong but it seems to me that the fire flower is wayyyyy more powerful than in previous games because there’s very few enemies that are immune to fire. The flowers themselves are anything but scarce, too.
cireza
Member
This is the never ending road to making games easier and easier. Flowers constantly spoiling what you should do. Power-ups that make things easier. Removing the timer. No collision in multi-player etc...
Thankfully there are more challenging platformers out there.
AV
We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
Fair play, it's been forever so I put "seem to be" as I honestly can't remember.