oh i'm talking about the general feeling of all of this that has been happening And I read the first three pages, and I had to post after someone questioned if people are "fucking human".
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Fabricated Notch/Mojang party escort allegations; Twitter monsters spring into action
- Thread starter Misguided
- Start date
oh i'm talking about the general feeling of all of this that has been happening And I read the first three pages, and I had to post after someone questioned if people are "fucking human".
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Doesn't seem so bad as I've seen the same VIP areas in other parties.
I have to admit to being a bit confused. That's what I thought this thread was about last night, when I posted in it. Now it's about some developer party that's completely different, and the thread title has changed to make people who were uncomfortable with the IGDA party look like idiots.
Oh well.
NO!
The mob are the people that took this for true without any proof and started a witch hunt!
Mango Positive
Member
Prostitutes and whores!
Calamari41
41 > 38
I'm looking forward to the Booth Babe thread this year, seeing how many views it gets and seeing how many sanctimonious posters in this thread end up participating in that one.
Have none of you been to any kind of corporate party? Especially at a freaking convention?
You'd need to step away from the keyboard to do that... Such a silly question.
It was a private party, in a club. It was not a professional environment.
it looked like this:
It sure looks like everyone is really uncomfortable.
I would imagine that most people would say that 'booth babes' being a common practice doesn't make it a good idea, or something that is benefiting our society.
To me, it isn't about being a hyper white knight, it's about being considerate and inclusive. I'm not even referring to this Notch situation, which I think was different from the IGDA party.
Calamari41
41 > 38
I'm wondering what kind of a chilling effect that this recent blitz of "women in gaming" furor is having on the actual hiring of women in gaming. If these companies are as horrifically sexist as everyone claims, why would they hire somebody who they fear is going to start a Twitter feed of their grievances against the company? I'm not saying its right or anything, I'm just wondering what the result might be.
I feel like I'm missing part of this story.
I'm as ready to take up pitchforks and torches as anyone when it comes to setting back the forward progress of gender equality. But if this is just about Notch hiring some dancers for a VIP party... I don't see the issue.
Dancer's gonna dancer, Dudes and Ladies gonna watch em.
I bet these people didn't like Magic Mike either.
I'm as ready to take up pitchforks and torches as anyone when it comes to setting back the forward progress of gender equality. But if this is just about Notch hiring some dancers for a VIP party... I don't see the issue.
Dancer's gonna dancer, Dudes and Ladies gonna watch em.
I bet these people didn't like Magic Mike either.
It was a private party, in a club. It was not a professional environment.
it looked like this:
It sure looks like everyone is really uncomfortable.
Wow, looks awesome
I'm really looking for something to get outraged about but it's just not here.
Maybe cause I wasn't invited?
Yap.... there it is. The rage.
Machine Messiah
Member
I don't really see a problem with all this if they were just dancing.
Does it amaze anyone else how many feminist gaming blogs there are out there? It's absolutely astounding. I didn't know there was such a huge market for that.
Does it amaze anyone else how many feminist gaming blogs there are out there? It's absolutely astounding. I didn't know there was such a huge market for that.
Calamari41
41 > 38
Some of the people in this thread should go picket strip clubs and night clubs with their local church groups.
And I pray that they never walk through a Vegas casino.
Basically you have people who come in and say it's a bad idea to have female dancers at a party if you're trying to be inclusive of all your guests.
People see that and disagree and say that he should be able to hire whom he wants for a private party and it happens all the time if women don't like it they should leave, etc.
People see that and say that if you're being inclusive no gender should be put in a situation where if they 'don't like it they can leave' and other such things...
It keeps going back and forth with each side getting a little more away from center until eventually it's a complete fucking mess.
I'd think it would be the opposite. If I was a corporate CEO or something, I'd hire more girls to improve our company's image.
I understand why people may be offended by "booth babes" but honestly since when does videogames ever benefit society? And again, go to any convention with people selling things and you'll have a pretty face pushing the product, rather it's perfume, or movies, videogames, it's the nature of selling, people like to look at attractive people. And this has NOTHING to do with a work environment being completely harassing, it's totally different.
Fixed that for you
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
I would hope that most men are able to differentiate between a working girl and a "working girl". Theres tons of guy who watch porn or go to strip clubs but dont let that influence their perception towards the entirr female gender.
Bony Manifesto
Member
I don't doubt it. But unfortunately, I think that's when it's going to lose mainstream support and thus run out of steam. This can't always be about raw, unbridled passion, focusing on smiting all the non-believers. At some point, we have to put the emotion to one side and look at this in a pragmatic way, and come up with real solutions and initiatives to fix things. Now is the time to do it: video game companies want to be seen to be inclusive to women, and I think they're more receptive now that they ever have been (or ever will be again). A set of sensible, non-draconian guidelines, that companies could voluntarily sign up to would go a long way.
flyinpiranha
Member
Good looking people being paid to be good looking. If you're really, really, really ridiculously good looking, use it.
Shit, I wish I was good looking enough to get paid $300/hr to walk around and talk with people.
It's an asset, use it.
Both women and men get paid to look hot and dance. Is it degrading for them? Maybe about as degrading as any paper pushing job that crushes your soul in it's monotony. As I said in the IGDA thread, someone dancing with their naughty bits hanging about in repose is not an inherently backwards idea. That's a puritanical view.
The CONTEXT of the dancing is what's important. In the other thread, it was obviously a mistake and possibly even sexist, in this situation it's perfectly fine.
SousedLouse
Member
I'll pay you double your rates to stop posting like an overworked teacher who's dealing with a remedial class.
You've touched upon the fact that the majority of the users on this board (and by extension, the internet) have a dire lack of empathy for their fellow human beings, and almost no ability or interest in interpreting criticism for it or recognizing that it's a small facet of how society marginalizes women - and that's great!
So what the fuck do the theatrics in that post accomplish, aside from framing yourself as some enlightened human being - exhausted from explaining the obvious to the ignorant and resistive masses - who looks forward to watching a wave of confusion and terror wash over their faces as more and more people start to do the right thing?
You pull this shit in almost every thread about sexism in the gaming industry - you show up, squeeze out a pithy post, and go back to lurking. This is arguably the first thread on Gaming side you've popped into in a long time where you do anything but go after easy targets. Granted, it's not the responsibility of every poster with a grounded perspective on an issue to show up in a thread and post, but you - and other posters like you, of which there are many - have a way of posting that irks me from the first sentence I scan.
It's usually one post - one marker that [poster] was in the thread.
Well reasoned, but overwhelmingly righteous.
Illustrative and constructive, but with a sense of conviction that's borderline toxic, and almost always coupled with an undercurrent of contempt.
It's like some sort of half measure between being too tired of seeing this shit repeat itself in thread after thread to have any desire to set the record straight, and wanting to make a piercing witticism in order to summarize the tone of the thread. Shit's tiresome.
chickdigger802
Banned
It's America. Should have took the team to a firing range instead.
Well, there is a difference in the "product" of video games benefiting our society and the actions of the professional organizations that create the product and hire employees to manage the services and products associated with video games.
I didn't mean to say that making a Tomb Raider game with a less sexualized protagonist would change the world, I'm just saying that the company that makes the game would want to make sure they're being inclusive of both genders when they host events / hire employees / give raises / etc.
Again, this isn't directly related to the Notch situation either, this was all in response to someone's sarcastic comment about booth babes.
The people being paid aren't the ones it is potentially offensive to.
So if I understand right the whole deal is that.....
Mojang fucked up and should have invited guy dancers too to even it out? Equality?
How does that make hiring attractive people to dance at a hosted event a good idea? I'm not begrudging anyone a paycheck, but that doesn't mean we need to hire them to dance at the half-time show for a Jr. High basketball game or at the after party for the Girl Scout merit badge celebration.
(obvious exaggeration for clarity)
flyinpiranha
Member
It's none of their business. It's a private party and the guy can do whatever he wants.
Are they private events? Then they can do what they want as long as it isn't breaking any law. I have no say with what people do. If this was in the middle of a park with strippers dancing around throwing candy at 7 year olds then yeah, we have a problem.
It's a private event. I don't see why it's ANYBODY's business what goes on as long as it's not breaking any laws.
Ah, so this is more of an overflow from another heated thread? I'm not speaking of 'using women' or glass ceilings, I'm talking about the right for a person to do what they want (within the law) with a private function.
No, and I'm glad you brought that up because lots of people have a fundamentally flawed concept of equality. You don't balance out equality by doing things that might alienate the other gender, you just try to make smarter decision in the first place.
Also, you need to realize that most of the discussion in this thread has very little to do with this specific situation and a lot more to do with the IGDA party or just how women are excluded in work functions in general.
captmcblack
Member
Were these people who were paid to dance/party "escorts" or hookers or anything untoward like that?
Were they scantily clad, or paid specifically to be scantily clad?
I get that the "real solution" would be to not hire any dancers/partiers of any gender at all, but I just want to know.
Were they scantily clad, or paid specifically to be scantily clad?
I get that the "real solution" would be to not hire any dancers/partiers of any gender at all, but I just want to know.
Calamari41
41 > 38
As somebody who works a lot in HR, I can assure you that the labor laws with regards to gender equality are incredibly robust. Every time we let an employee go, we have to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt to a government panel that it had nothing to do with gender or race or what have you. We have a government audit every year where they go over the race and gender ratios of our workforce, as well as the salary distribution. If there is sexism going on in hiring, firing, and raises, then somebody needs to sue. It will work. How much more powerful would it be to see "Anderson v Electronic Arts" on CNN versus an enraged twitter feed on NeoGAF?
Looks like it was a hell of a party. Also looks like a lot of you need to get out more, if you think this is sexist and outrageous. This was a private party in a club, no escorts or skimpy dancers were hired and there were beautiful women in the club taking pictures. People don't sit down for tea and crumpets at these things.
And we're done here. Nothing more needs to be said.
Right absolutely.
But I don't think that hiring female dancers should be reserved exclusively for male only events. If someone is uncomfortable with the idea of women prancing about nude, they should make sure to let someone know who can potentially help alleviate their concerns. Communication at that juncture is the most important thing, posting about it on Twitter afterwards (or even during) is a juvenile way to handle the situation.
These two events couldn't be better for future examples of what NOT to do. IGDA and the context surrounding it made it stupidly obvious that they shouldn't hire go-go dancers. Notch taking some pictures with hot ladies who were dancing is completely innocuous comparatively.
Delusibeta
Banned
Considering it didn't happen, it does strike me as people stirring shit up. Hell, even if it did happen, that's pretty much par for the course for an event with Skrillex on the posters.
Thanks for this, and I appreciate that! I didn't mean to insinuate that these companies are treating women unfairly in their hiring/firing practices, I was just listing that as a part of the 'spectrum of consideration' - if that makes sense. Companies need to always be mindful of how they treat their employees and clients/customers.
michaelius
Banned
Since we are speaking about escorts and not strippers here how is hiring some girls which you wouldn't know are hired offensive ?