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SPOILER Bioshock Infinite SPOILER discussion
- Thread starter thomasmahler
- Start date
Whaat. I must have missed this. That's awesome
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, that makes sense. Thank you all.
I wanted to be sure. Don't want to get banned!
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
It's part of Christina Aguilera, yes.
Good lord, it's horrifying. Please change it
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
I got the idea that was the divergent point that allowed all the Columbia variables to exist. Killing Booker (taking the third option, so to speak) stops them ever happening.
No worries, of course. It's not like I mind explaining but I've seen that question a few times on different forums and I just don't understand how it comes up so often.
uncleniccius
Member
I just finished it.. wow.
Can someone please explain the whole Fink thing? I honestly don't know which character he was.
Also: is it safe to assume that DLC will be separate from Elizabeth/Booker due to the infinite loop/ending?
Can someone please explain the whole Fink thing? I honestly don't know which character he was.
Also: is it safe to assume that DLC will be separate from Elizabeth/Booker due to the infinite loop/ending?
endresults
Member
Where do you get from? The way I see it, Booker DeWitt dies AT the baptism, closing off the possibility of becoming Comstock AND getting married and having Anna.
People want to assume there is a happy ending, the scene after the credits is either the worst red herring ever or Levine was forced to add in something that could hint at a happy ending.
From what I understood, Fink was one of the magnets of Columbia. He was filthy rich, and was supposedly the "inventor" of many of the technollogic marvels we see. The thing is he wasn't really the inventor, he was able to see into the tears, which showed parallel universes with more advanced technology, and he basically got them from there and became rich in Columbia.
He was also "allied" with Comstock, even implying that he was the one feeding Comstock with money. If I remember correctly it was also him that built Songbird, once again by stealing technology from another universe ( in this case, it is heavily implied that it was Rapture - big daddy )
Someone correct me if I'm wrong though!
forgeforsaken
Member
Did the twins remind anyone else of Rosencrantz & Guildenstern Are Dead?
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
It was specifically because I misinterpreted Boy Lettuce's statement about Comstock wiping away Booker's sins. That and how vague the debt seems (for good reason, of course).
The coin toss certainly. Great film (I'm a philistine...)
jacksepticeye
Member
A lot of people have been saying that yeah
I mean they say it is a gambling debt, his desk is strewn with horse racing tickets whenever you are there (losers I assume). It doesn't really need to give you more information than that. He was depressed and he took to gambling, that's all that had to be said.
Hit the nail on the head. For bonus points, you could have mentioned that Fink's brother actually showed Fink the tears and that the brother was a famous songwriter in Columbia, he was also stealing from the future which is why the barborshop quartet was sining beachboys at the beginning of the game.
But when Booker was drowned, every Elizabeth faded except his own. (who is his child Anna having grown up, basically a resident of his own dimension who was displaced) That would imply that drowning Booker led to the death of all the alternate realities in which he would become Comstock, thus forcing space-time to only allow realities to exist where Booker rejected the Baptism. I think that is what the after the credits scene is supposed to signify, that with no intervention from Comstock's dimension (due to it being destroyed) the only one left is Booker's. (hence to him, he never was drowned/killed in the first place due to a paradox)
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Sure and that added to my confusion ("Comstock is a bookie, too...? Jeez, he gets about..." etc.).
Also, on a different note, how would drowning Booker at the baptism stop all the divergent realities occurring? Those realities would surely still exist, the drowning just being another potential outcome... ohgodmybrain
Why do you assume she didn't fade? They each faded in tune with the piano notes and one final note struck when the camera went black. The way I see it, the camera went black because the final Elizabeth blinked out of existence which means that room blinked out of existence as well since she brought you there/created it.
I won't lie, between Booker and Comstock, the full gambit was run on sins. It wouldn't have surprised me if one of them was also a bookie too
I remember Ken Levine saying something how the DLC will be fan service. So I'm guessing something to do with Rapture and Columbia intertwining.
My take is that the Booker that went to Baptism AT ALL died, or at least that possibility was completely erased. Thus, we see a Booker who simply didn't bother going at all and lived a life much like he would have without being baptised. If you want to be hopeful I imagine that because he didn't go to baptism only to run from it he's not AS badly wrecked by guilt, as he never saw it as him running away from possibly fixing his life.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Alright so Elizabeth.
Best companion in a game since Alyx or best ever?
Best companion in a game since Alyx or best ever?
uncleniccius
Member
Awesome thanks!
Is there a possibility that the DLC could be Dewitt? Or do you think it will be a new person from Columbia?
I'm willing to subscribe to that theory as well and I've mulled it over. Part of me sees it as a possibility but that still sucks because he is still going to be a piss poor father. Another part of me says that the story was trying to make a big deal about the constants and the variable theme and that the constant was that Booker always went to the baptism and the variable was what he did.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Ling Sha Hua from Shenmue II
I do love Ling a lot too.
The One Who Knocks
Member
It was mentioned earlier in the thread (sorry to whoever mentioned it, I can't remember where specifically it was mentioned) that each Elizabeth disappears with a key of a piano being pressed (sorry, I know nothing about music and don't know what the technical name for this, if there is one, is) and as the screen goes black, the final key is pressed to signify that she too has disappeared. If you think about it, Elizabeth cannot ever exist because her existence is dependant on Comstock's. If Comstock doesn't exist, there can only be Anna (which is why I feel the bolded is precisely what's shown).
It's not possible for Booker not to attend the baptism if it being a constant is to be believed.
I don't think she tops Alyx as she is purely a support character. She never actually kills anyone during combat. I really like the tear mechanic, but it got pretty samey after a few fights. I have to say that having her chuck you HP, Salts and ammo is great.
I'm glad that it didn't transform the game in a giant escort mission, but it did feel pretty strange to have her run around the battlefield without anyone caring.
My work computer won't let me pull up a lot of sites so I can't find it but have you seen the Elizabeth meme where she is complaining that Booker is the worst AI character yet? If not, somebody post it!
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
This needs to be in the OP.
Haha yeah I saw it. My Elizabeth felt the same way.
I would put her and Alyx on equal footing. They add so much to the game in different ways but I will tell you this Ill be thinking about Dewitt and Elizabeth for a while whereas I haven't with Alyx.
Thanks
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
She's really, really good, but suffers from a bit of shallow interaction with Booker in various conversations i.e. You just killed a lot of people....I'm okay with it now! (partially accounted by the fact that there's a lack of true 'sit-down' time the two have, and things have to progress relatively quickly), as well as the narration breaking slightly when all of these people who need Elizabeth back totally ignore her to the point of running right past her to totally gun for Booker.
I wish they'd kept more of the things like putting on the giant Lincoln(washington?) mask from some of the earlier videos, or maybe involving her a bit more directly in combat somehow, but that does run the risk of resorting to a 'take care of her' management system.
In terms of AI? She was helpful in battle but I wasn't blown away from her AI. I was expecting more side talk and her doing her own thing when I was exploring. I wanted more moments like shown during E3 where she picks up a Lincoln mask and impersonates him but I never saw that happen or anything remotely similar. I remember there was time where I was in Shantytown and there was protest and she went to pole and laid back on it. She wasn't terrible by any means (and she was amazing to look at) but I expected more from the way Ken Levine hyped her up.
Her as a character is okay.
http://i.imgur.com/Z6i21zv.jpg Is this it? Also, Can we guess that vigors are Fink's knockoff plasmids? I kind wished they'd done more with them narratively other than "yep, y'all got powers in an city. Have fun!"
Well, Episode 2 came out 6 years ago. I can understand not thinking about Alyx for a while.
Everyone remember the guitar scene? (I pity you if you missed it on your playthrough, so beautiful). I would have really appreciated another similar scene set up (having Booker examine something arbitrary in plain view) that had them both sit down and just have an honest talk. Maybe Liz breaks down and the consoling is more than just "Press X to
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
I mean from a character perspective first and foremost and as a asset in battle second.
The guitar scene was soooooo good though.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
That'd make sense if it were purely time-travel, but we're talking about space and time. In an infinite number of parallel universes surely Booker drowning would already exist in a number of them. That wouldn't effect any of the others either.
Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy with how it all ended; it's just to discuss it... none of my friends have finished it!
WrenchNinja
Member
It's hilarious how Levine kept talking about how she'd take care of herself when her method of taking care of herself is doing nothing but be ignored by enemy AI.
But hey, she gives you ammo, health and salt! Cause the game isnt full of that stuff.
But wait, she opens tears for you! Well actually, you open tears when you tell her to, she doesnt do it herself.
But wait, she gives you colour commentary! Well I guess she does sometimes.
But hey, she gives you ammo, health and salt! Cause the game isnt full of that stuff.
But wait, she opens tears for you! Well actually, you open tears when you tell her to, she doesnt do it herself.
But wait, she gives you colour commentary! Well I guess she does sometimes.
My votes to to:
Trip from Enslaved
Alyx from Half Life 2
Garrus from Mass Effect
All of which I think are substantially more developed.
The One Who Knocks
Member
The writers get around this by introducing constants. It is a constant that Booker makes a choice at the baptism. Every Booker that survives will go to the baptism and make a choice. The difference is that Booker accepting the baptism will lead to a paradox and a paradox is not a probability, it's a paradox.
EDIT: Also, it isn't solely time travel since Elizabeth is murdering every single version of Booker before he makes a choice at the baptism and every single Booker goes to the baptism and makes a choice. This makes it a paradox in every single infinite set of universes where Booker accepts (because if, in any universe, Booker accepts it will lead to the paradox). Even if we assume she only strangles acception Bookers then that still becomes a paradox and thus cannot happen. Either way, the choice that's made becomes a constant to avoid the paradox.
EDIT: Ok, so, if Booker ever accepts the baptism, in any universe Comstock can never meet the Luteces which would lead to Comstock buying Anna which would lead to Elizabeth's existence and the Luteces becoming trapped in the timeline which would lead to Booker entering the acception universes which would lead to Booker saving the Luteces which would lead to Elizabeth becoming omnipotent which would lead to Elizabeth drowning every single Booker in every single infinite set of spaces in which Booker survives Wounded Knee which means Booker could never accept baptism and become Comstock which means he can never meet the Luteces etc. The reason for this is that Elizabeth will end up murdering Comstock/Booker at the baptism preventing everything from occuring after it has occured. This is a looping paradox. If it was only one version of Comstock it wouldn't matter but since they're specifically going back to murder Comstock it would make no sense if they don't murder them all (symbolised by every Elizabeth murdering the single Booker at the constant).
EDIT: And this, ultimately, is what the Luteces' goal was; to never become trapped in the timeline/to never mess with the timeline by messing with Anna/Elizabeth for Comstock.
This is what I've been wondering. If he gets drowned, how can he continue to become the baby booker?
I never gave it any thought because you kill him before he becomes Comstock, no more evil Comstock.. but you kill debt ridden Booker too. Is the point being made that he and elizabeth cease to exist but that stops the evil and chaos they would have brought too?
rohlfinator
Member
I think that would have run the risk of retreading old ground from Bioshock 1/2.
But maybe they'll get into that stuff more in the DLC. I get the feeling that a lot of that background lore stuff was cut in service of the pacing of the main narrative, but the DLC should be able to explore those things more without focusing on Booker/Elizabeth.
Beelzeboss
Member
I really wish the game didn't skip that last scene with Booker if you decide to not watch the credits. I hate that kind of stuff.
After seeing that last scene I think the drowning of Booker was less about stopping Comstock and more about stopping the creation and use of the tears in the first place.
Comstock started all of this when he decided to go and mess other realities and now that none of that can ever happen or exist, we just see Booker in his apartment with Anne like how it should have been.
After seeing that last scene I think the drowning of Booker was less about stopping Comstock and more about stopping the creation and use of the tears in the first place.
Comstock started all of this when he decided to go and mess other realities and now that none of that can ever happen or exist, we just see Booker in his apartment with Anne like how it should have been.
Sounds good to me.
That wasn't character development. It actually just felt out of place to me.
You are on your way to a specific task. There isn't even any reason for narrative downtime. Then you just find a guitar in the corner and randomly start playing and she sings. I'm not against the scene but I dont' quite understand how suddenly her breaking out into song = character depth. They don't even mention it nor does it transition into any kind of conversation about anything at all. Not even small talk. You literally randomly pick up a guitar in the middle of hallways of shooting dudes and she randomly sings a few bars of a song. It felt like scraps of a scene that was originally meant to be more fully developed. You guys must think American Idol is the deepest thing on TV.