Song bird was created by Fink after he saw the designs of big daddies from Rapture. He just remodeled it to work for high attitudes.
Comstock traveled through a tear and bought Booker's gambling debt.
I lend you money, you don't have how to repay me, so you can have a friend of yours repay me so now you owe money to him instead of me.
Why are we using spoiler blocks? It's the spoiler thread.
I'm more likely to ban you for your horrifying avatar.
That's Christina Aguilera, right?
It's part of Christina Aguilera, yes.
Good lord, it's horrifying. Please change it
Am I correct in assuming that killing Booker in the ending scene has a "ripple effect" where all the other universe are influenced? Basically, the Baptism refusal becomes a constant?
So why does Boy Lettuce say that his debt to Comstock has been paid...?
Good point.
I think it's just me (see above).
Non-baptised booker who has Anna is still a variable, because only Booker who accepts baptism drowns. Theoretically, alcoholic, gambling Booker with a daughter named Anna is still an accepted variable and possible universe. But that Booker will never meet Comstock, and never lose Anna to him.
Where do you get from? The way I see it, Booker DeWitt dies AT the baptism, closing off the possibility of becoming Comstock AND getting married and having Anna.
I just finished it.. wow.
Can someone please explain the whole Fink thing? I honestly don't know which character he was.
Also: is it safe to assume that DLC will be separate from Elizabeth/Booker due to the infinite loop/ending?
No worries, of course. It's not like I mind explaining but I've seen that question a few times on different forums and I just don't understand how it comes up so often.
Did the twins remind anyone else of Rosencrantz & Guildenstern Are Dead?
Did the twins remind anyone else of Rosencrantz & Guildenstern Are Dead?
It was specifically because I misinterpreted Boy Lettuce's statement about Comstock wiping away Booker's sins. That and how vague the debt seems (for good reason, of course).
From what I understood, Fink was one of the magnets of Columbia. He was filthy rich, and was supposedly the "inventor" of many of the technollogic marvels we see. The thing is he wasn't really the inventor, he was able to see into the tears, which showed parallel universes with more advanced technology, and he basically got them from there and became rich in Columbia.
He was also "allied" with Comstock, even implying that he was the one feeding Comstock with money. If I remember correctly it was also him that built Songbird, once again by stealing technology from another universe ( in this case, it is heavily implied that it was Rapture - big daddy )
Someone correct me if I'm wrong though!
I mean they say it is a gambling debt, his desk is strewn with horse racing tickets whenever you are there (losers I assume). It doesn't really need to give you more information than that. He was depressed and he took to gambling, that's all that had to be said.
But when Booker was drowned, every Elizabeth faded except his own. (who is his child Anna having grown up, basically a resident of his own dimension who was displaced) That would imply that drowning Booker led to the death of all the alternate realities in which he would become Comstock, thus forcing space-time to only allow realities to exist where Booker rejected the Baptism. I think that is what the after the credits scene is supposed to signify, that with no intervention from Comstock's dimension (due to it being destroyed) the only one left is Booker's. (hence to him, he never was drowned/killed in the first place due to a paradox)
Sure and that added to my confusion ("Comstock is a bookie, too...? Jeez, he gets about..." etc.).
I just finished it.. wow.
Can someone please explain the whole Fink thing? I honestly don't know which character he was.
Also: is it safe to assume that DLC will be separate from Elizabeth/Booker due to the infinite loop/ending?
My take is that the Booker that went to Baptism AT ALL died, or at least that possibility was completely erased. Thus, we see a Booker who simply didn't bother going at all and lived a life much like he would have without being baptised. If you want to be hopeful I imagine that because he didn't go to baptism only to run from it he's not AS badly wrecked by guilt, as he never saw it as him running away from possibly fixing his life.Where do you get from? The way I see it, Booker DeWitt dies AT the baptism, closing off the possibility of becoming Comstock AND getting married and having Anna.
From what I understood, Fink was one of the magnets of Columbia. He was filthy rich, and was supposedly the "inventor" of many of the technollogic marvels we see. The thing is he wasn't really the inventor, he was able to see into the tears, which showed parallel universes with more advanced technology, and he basically got them from there and became rich in Columbia.
He was also "allied" with Comstock, even implying that he was the one feeding Comstock with money. If I remember correctly it was also him that built Songbird, once again by stealing technology from another universe ( in this case, it is heavily implied that it was Rapture - big daddy )
Someone correct me if I'm wrong though!
Alright so Elizabeth.
Best companion in a game since Alyx or best ever?
My take is that the Booker that went to Baptism AT ALL died, or at least that possibility was completely erased. Thus, we see a Booker who simply didn't bother going at all and lived a life much like he would have without being baptised. If you want to be hopeful I imagine that because he didn't go to baptism only to run from it he's not AS badly wrecked by guilt, as he never saw it as him running away from possibly fixing his life.
I remember Ken Levine saying something how the DLC will be fan service. So I'm guessing something to do with Rapture and Columbia intertwining.
Ling Sha Hua from Shenmue II
But when Booker was drowned, every Elizabeth faded except his own. (who is his child Anna having grown up, basically a resident of his own dimension who was displaced) That would imply that drowning Booker led to the death of all the alternate realities in which he would become Comstock, thus forcing space-time to only allow realities to exist where Booker rejected the Baptism. I think that is what the after the credits scene is supposed to signify, that with no intervention from Comstock's dimension (due to it being destroyed) the only one left is Booker's. (hence to him, he never was drowned/killed in the first place due to a paradox)
It's not possible for Booker not to attend the baptism if it being a constant is to be believed.My take is that the Booker that went to Baptism AT ALL died, or at least that possibility was completely erased. Thus, we see a Booker who simply didn't bother going at all and lived a life much like he would have without being baptised. If you want to be hopeful I imagine that because he didn't go to baptism only to run from it he's not AS badly wrecked by guilt, as he never saw it as him running away from possibly fixing his life.
Alright so Elizabeth.
Best companion in a game since Alyx or best ever?
Alright so Elizabeth.
Best companion in a game since Alyx or best ever?
Sure and that added to my confusion ("Comstock is a bookie, too...? Jeez, he gets about..." etc.).
Also, on a different note, how would drowning Booker at the baptism stop all the divergent realities occurring? Those realities would surely still exist, the drowning just being another potential outcome... ohgodmybrain
Basically, Elizabeth saw that Booker became Comstock. To prevent this happening she murdered every single Booker that existed in every universe that survived Wounded Knee and went to the baptism (which must always happen because it's a constant). This creates a looping paradox because it means (in very basic terms) that Booker was killed by his daughter before his daughter's conception. This leads to a destruction resolution whereby every probability that leads to this paradox is removed, because logically, a paradox cannot occur. Basically, originally, at the baptism there is two choices. Elizabeth makes it so that one of these choices cannot happen because otherwise it will lead to a paradox in every single universe that Booker survived Wounded Knee. As a result, they change the variable at the baptism (Booker can accept or reject it) to a constant (Booker must reject it because otherwise it leads to a paradox).
Edit: Yeah, your second post is correct. Anna is never sold to the Luteces and never becomes Elizabeth. Instead of this, Booker simply lives with Anna (although that doesn't necessarily mean they live happily). This is only my interpretation though.
My work computer won't let me pull up a lot of sites so I can't find it but have you seen the Elizabeth meme where she is complaining that Booker is the worst AI character yet? If not, somebody post it!
I don't think she tops Alyx as she is purely a support character. She never actually kills anyone during combat. I really like the tear mechanic, but it got pretty samey after a few fights. I have to say that having her chuck you HP, Salts and ammo is great.
I'm glad that it didn't transform the game in a giant escort mission, but it did feel pretty strange to have her run around the battlefield without anyone caring.
Oh wait, are we being serious...? I can do that, gimmie a minute.
EDIT: There we go.
Alright so Elizabeth.
Best companion in a game since Alyx or best ever?
Alright so Elizabeth.
Best companion in a game since Alyx or best ever?
My work computer won't let me pull up a lot of sites so I can't find it but have you seen the Elizabeth meme where she is complaining that Booker is the worst AI character yet? If not, somebody post it!
I would put her and Alyx on equal footing. They add so much to the game in different ways but I will tell you this Ill be thinking about Dewitt and Elizabeth for a while whereas I haven't with Alyx.
She's really, really good, but suffers from a bit of shallow interaction with Booker in various conversations i.e. You just killed a lot of people....I'm okay with it now! (partially accounted by the fact that there's a lack of true 'sit-down' time the two have, and things have to progress relatively quickly), as well as the narration breaking slightly when all of these people who need Elizabeth back totally ignore her to the point of running right past her to totally gun for Booker.
I wish they'd kept more of the things like putting on the giant Lincoln(washington?) mask from some of the earlier videos, or maybe involving her a bit more directly in combat somehow, but that does run the risk of resorting to a 'take care of her' management system.
In terms of AI? She was helpful in battle but I wasn't blown away from her AI. I was expecting more side talk and her doing her own thing when I was exploring. I wanted more moments like shown during E3 where she picks up a Lincoln mask and impersonates him but I never saw that happen or anything remotely similar. I remember there was time where I was in Shantytown and there was protest and she went to pole and laid back on it. She wasn't terrible by any means (and she was amazing to look at) but I expected more from the way Ken Levine hyped her up.
Her as a character is okay.
She's really, really good, but suffers from a bit of shallow interaction with Booker in various conversations i.e. You just killed a lot of people....I'm okay with it now! (partially accounted by the fact that there's a lack of true 'sit-down' time the two have, and things have to progress relatively quickly), as well as the narration breaking slightly when all of these people who need Elizabeth back totally ignore her to the point of running right past her to totally gun for Booker.
I wish they'd kept more of the things like putting on the giant Lincoln(washington?) mask from some of the earlier videos, or maybe involving her a bit more directly in combat somehow, but that does run the risk of resorting to a 'take care of her' management system.
This needs to be in the OP.
Alright so Elizabeth.
Best companion in a game since Alyx or best ever?
That'd make sense if it were purely time-travel, but we're talking about space and time. In an infinite number of parallel universes surely Booker drowning would already exist in a number of them already. That wouldn't effect any of the others either.
Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy with how it all ended; it's just to discuss it... none of my friends have finished it!
Where do you get from? The way I see it, Booker DeWitt dies AT the baptism, closing off the possibility of becoming Comstock AND getting married and having Anna.
Also, Can we guess that vigors are Fink's knockoff plasmids? I kind wished they'd done more with them narratively other than "yep, y'all got powers in an city. Have fun!"
Sounds good to me.I remember Ken Levine saying something how the DLC will be fan service. So I'm guessing something to do with Rapture and Columbia intertwining.
Everyone remember the guitar scene? (I pity you if you missed it on your playthrough, so beautiful). I would have really appreciated another similar scene set up (having Booker examine something arbitrary in plain view) that had them both sit down and just have an honest talk. Maybe Liz breaks down and the consoling is more than just "Press X toJasonConsole" I think that could have made another lovely scene.