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[Metrotab]

But you know secondary sexual organs are (I hope). See the thing is they took an art direction which is controversy and they know it. Now acting like either you like or your gay. Sounds a lot immature which imo is a reflection of the art style. You have to agreed at least that some people might find this repulsive for one or the other reason. It is their game they can do whatever they want but also accept that others find it pubertal. On a personal note I find her so ugly that I probably won't buy the game.

I don't think people mind it when someone says they don't like this artistic direction. Tastes differ.

I do think people mind when it's implied that liking this character design makes you immature/perverted/juvenile/... or even worse, sexist and mysoginistic.

 

[Hypereides]

Nitpicking is what Kotaku seems to do best. Plus why do they have such a dirty mind?

Its a game set in a fantasy universe. Characters are bound to be expressed with exaggerated caricature.

To be fair its juvenile behaviour to get overexcited about something like big boobs and write an arctile about it.

 

[sleepykyo]

As for criticizing - I'm saying these designs are problematic, and that we as gamers should encourage developers to think of us as more than hopeless sacks of hormones. If I said that I don't like auto-heal in FPSs, does that mean I think Call of Duty shouldn't exist? Come on.

Is this still about Kamitani? Because I don't get the sense that he really thinks about anyone at all. Still seems content with sub 200k sales. Still focusing on fantasy. Still going for drawn art look.

 

[eastx]

This guy is absolutely oblivious. Somebody implies you're immature, so you respond with "you're gay." Great job.

At least he has the sense of humor that you lack.

 

[User Tron]

I don't think people mind it when someone says they don't like this artistic direction. Tastes differ.

I do think people mind when it's implied that liking this character design makes you immature/perverted/juvenile/... or even worse, sexist and mysoginistic.

Agreed but line is blurry and I understand when people find this sexist. For me the character is overdoing it. Her "exaggeration" is mainly done on sexual attributes which I find misfitting in the brawler context.

 

[patapuf]

Agreed but line is blurry and I understand when people find this sexist. For me the character is overdoing it. Her "exaggeration" is mainly done on sexual attributes which I find misfitting in the brawler context.

Have you seen the rest of the game? or the other characters?

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Why shouldn't people push their own agenda?

Because this issue is entirely based on personal taste. Its arrogant and ignorant for someone to expect people to change their work because they personally don't enjoy it.

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

Without making claims about those who are fine with this art-style design choice I'll just say it has completely turned me off towards purchasing the game. I would otherwise be very much looking forward to DC but now I don't plan on buying it at all. It just comes off as extremely juvenile to me and to be honest I find it to be a bit repulsive.

It's their game so they can do what they want with it, but this just isn't for me.

 

[outunderthestars]

I'm sorry, but I have to say that I agree with Jason. It is actually quite sad as I love the look of the games but simply can't get past the character designs.

 

[cm osi]

But you know secondary sexual organs are (I hope). See the thing is they took an art direction which is controversy and they know it. Now acting like either you like or your gay. Sounds a lot immature which imo is a reflection of the art style. You have to agreed at least that some people might find this repulsive for one or the other reason. It is their game they can do whatever they want but also accept that others find it pubertal. On a personal note I find her so ugly that I probably won't buy the game.

wow, you won't buy a game just because there's ONE character you don't like? wow

Agreed but line is blurry and I understand when people find this sexist. For me the character is overdoing it. Her "exaggeration" is mainly done on sexual attributes which I find misfitting in the brawler context.

it's not like the game is trying to be realistic. dwarf is a chunk of muscle but can roll like a ball, and he's almost naked too.

 

[Metrotab]

Agreed but line is blurry and I understand when people find this sexist. For me the character is overdoing it. Her "exaggeration" is mainly done on sexual attributes which I find misfitting in the brawler context.

But this isn't like DoA where all the girls have huge racks. This is one character of three vastly different designs. What's wrong with the sorceress being exaggeratedly sexualised, in a game where everything gets exaggerated? Can't artistic directors design characters the way they want to anymore?!

I simply don't understand what's so offensive about this.

 

[zroid]

An appropriately juvenile response

 

[GorillaJu]

Why shouldn't people push their own agenda?

Because it's disingenuous? Because it's annoying? Because it doesn't foster discussion, instead distracting from the original topic?

I didn't think the response was "huh huh, ur gay dude." Certainly wasn't my first impression, anyway.

 

[Rickenslacker]

I'm sorry, but I have to say that I agree with Jason. It is actually quite sad as I love the look of the games but simply can't get past the character designs.

Designs, or design?

 

[Wellscha]

I'm amazing at the amount of posts defending an art style that is demeaning to women under the guise of "OH! it's made by a Japanese developer, so rules don't apply here."

 

[CrazyArcadia]

Five pages over a joke reply to a joke of an article, jesus. Come on GAF, don't stoop to this level. Leave this type of shit to Reddit.

Though I'd say that the original Kotaku article that started all this was anything but mature.

The art is just George Kamitani doing George Kamitani things. I'm all for saying "Fuck You if you don't like it". An artist is entitled to his own style, after all.

...

All you fools arguing about gender role equality and social justice in Japanese fantasy video games are doing is giving them both the publicity they want. You do know this, right?

I agree with you, but I'll be part of the problem too...

I'm also sick about the whole argument repeated over and over again whenever a female character with big bossoms and revealing clothing pops up in non-realistic fantasy/b-movie style videogames. There are far more pressing gender issues in the realm of videogames than an oversexualised character in an over the top-fantasy world where everyone looks like some sort of parody of tropes and styles. Most of these issues are not part of the games themselves, but the "real world" treatment of females in the industry and online games. Telling people who enjoy this kind of artwork that they're immature and mocking the artist only makes the fire bigger. Actually, I find it more offensive that games featuring playable female characters seem to fail becoming huge sellers only because of a playable female (at least according to marketing...), a fantasy world is only cool as long as their are no sexualised females and I always get the feeling that many people in the industry are not really comfortable with sexuality -at all- when it comes to content in videogames. I seldom heard these kinds of complaints whenever a new movie like Planet Terror or the like comes out, but for videogames, these examples get singled out all the time -_-

To all the "Kamitani is also immature"-crowd people: I don't think he implied "lol gay" but instead implied "ok, here, take those bulky strong males that aren't looked down upon when it comes to character design" and he uses bodybuilder-style bears for that. For some reason, these seem to be quite popular in Japan and I'm not that much in on the joke, but I really don't think his response was meant homophobic in any way.

 

[onilink88]

So, art of scantily-clad women with large jiggling breasts is not only cheap, but reserved exclusively for immature juvenilles? The poignancy of the irony of Kotaku's "article" is just delicious. Oh, and I see we're at the point where accusations of homophobia and misogyny are being thrown around. Yeah, I definitely have to stop coming here.

 

[GorillaJu]

I'm sorry, but I have to say that I agree with Jason. It is actually quite sad as I love the look of the games but simply can't get past the character designs.

How can you claim to love the look of the game, but not be able to get past the most fundamental part of its aesthetic?

 

[SolidSnakex]

I'm amazing at the amount of posts defending an art style that is demeaning to women under the guise of "OH! it's made by a Japanese developer, so rules don't apply here."

Who exactly has made that argument in this thread?

 

[jgmo870]

I'm amazing at the amount of posts defending an art style that is demeaning to women under the guise of "OH! it's made by a Japanese developer, so rules don't apply here."

I'm more amazed that people keep trying to impose modern ideals and values on art that's not inspired by anything modern.

 

[Metrotab]

I'm amazing at the amount of posts defending an art style that is demeaning to women under the guise of "OH! it's made by a Japanese developer, so rules don't apply here."

Could you explain to me how you consider the character design of this game demeaning to women?

 

[Forkball]

MEANWHILE ON KOTAKU

 

[Dead Man]

Because it's disingenuous? Because it's annoying? Because it doesn't foster discussion, instead distracting from the original topic?

I didn't think the response was "huh huh, ur gay dude." Certainly wasn't my first impression, anyway.

It's only disingenuous if someone claims to be fighting a bigger fight on someone elses behalf, otherwise it is just what people do. The advance what they think is right.

Because this issue is entirely based on personal taste. Its arrogant and ignorant for someone to expect people to change their work because they personally don't enjoy it.

Right. So everyone is pushing their own agenda. Every single person. It's what people do.

 

[Wynnebeck]

Could you explain to me how you consider the character design of this game demeaning to women?

Haven't you heard? If you draw a woman with large breasts and curves, you are a misogynist.

 

[eastx]

I'm amazing at the amount of posts defending an art style that is demeaning to women under the guise of "OH! it's made by a Japanese developer, so rules don't apply here."

Or maybe people don't agree that it's demeaning. Or is your opinion fact now?

 

[badgenome]

MEANWHILE ON KOTAKU

To be fair, that was four years ago when they were a video game blog and not a political correctness blog.

 

[dokish]

But will they be playable?

Day 1 DLC.

 

[Wellscha]

Could you explain to me how you consider the character design of this game demeaning to women?

Sexually objectifying women.

 

[LiK]

Haven't you heard? If you draw a woman with large breasts and curves, you are a misogynist.

also include revealing cleavage. Can't be truly sexist without that.

 

[User Tron]

wow, you won't buy a game just because there's ONE character you don't like? wow

Looking at my backlog I've got this liberty

it's not like the game is trying to be realistic. dwarf is a chunk of muscle but can roll like a ball, and he's almost naked too.

Again I don't find the others that "sexualized".

But this isn't like DoA where all the girls have huge racks. This is one character of three vastly different designs. What's wrong with the sorceress being exaggeratedly sexualised, in a game where everything gets exaggerated? Can't artistic directors design characters the way they want to anymore?!

I simply don't understand what's so offensive about this.

Many find DoA very sexist and there were a lot of discussions about it. Personally I don't find it that offensive, it's more repulsive and it seems that I not alone.

 

[sprsk]

Could you explain to me how you consider the character design of this game demeaning to women?

Women with sexy bodies can't be heroes and they should be ashamed of themselves.

 

[cm osi]

Could you explain to me how you consider the character design of this game demeaning to women?

sorceress will completely change your idea of women

 

[DarkKyo]

I'm amazing at the amount of posts defending an art style that is demeaning to women under the guise of "OH! it's made by a Japanese developer, so rules don't apply here."

lol really?? The art style is fine. You're just a prude.

 

[eastx]

lol really?? The art style is fine. You're just a prude.

Nicely said.

 

[Schobeleth]

I just don't understand why people have been losing their shit over stuff like this in the past few weeks/months. There's been a lot of white knighting going on and it's annoying when it doesn't apply, especially to stuff like Kamitani's art. His art is stylized and it's meant to not be proportionate, he just likes to draw stuff that looks cool.

I guess everyone wants ugly, flat chested (or anything smaller than a C) and or plain looking women in games from now on? Is this the only appropriate way to represent women in video games moving forward?

How come movies, music and so on can still objectify women and yet video games have come under scrutiny recently because of "old tropes" that supposedly objectify women. Maybe their target audience is young adolescent to young adult males and therefore they design the women in their game to look attractive to said buyers?

 

[sorakirosaki]

And maybe take a look at this link while you're at it and some Frank Frazetta artwork for good measure

this blog has a lot of interesting reads O_O and as for the topic at hand man.. maybe everyone at my art school should just stop drawing the nude females and just draw cubes from now on :/

 

[Hypereides]

This guy is absolutely oblivious. Somebody implies you're immature, so you respond with "you're gay." Great job.

Quite honestly it was at least done with class and not a simple direct counter. People can choose to believe what Kamitani's reponse insinuated.

 

[Pie and Beans]

Sexually objectifying fictional women and men.

Fixed. Sex is bad mmmmkay.

 

[Dead Man]

I just don't understand why people have been losing their shit over stuff like this in the past few weeks/months. There's been a lot of white knighting going on and it's annoying when it doesn't apply, especially to stuff like Kamitani's art. His art is stylized and it's meant to not be proportionate, he just likes to draw stuff that looks cool.

I guess everyone wants ugly, flat chested (or anything smaller than a C) and or plain looking women in games from now on? Is this the only appropriate way to represent women in video games moving forward?

How come movies, music and so on can still objectify women and yet video games have come under scrutiny recently because of "old tropes" that supposedly objectify women. Maybe their target audience is young adolescent to young adult males and therefore they design the women in their game to look attractive to said buyers?

I believe those that are saying the design is inappropriate would say the same about music videos or movies.

 

[Persona86]

Sexually objectifying women.

But what if she's one of those women that chooses to dress that way?

Spoiler

I know she's not real

 

[michaelius]

To be fair, that was four years ago when they were a video game blog and not a political correctness blog.

Good times i remember i was reading them to see stuff like "biggest real life gundam figure on exposition somewhere in Japan" with pictures or a bunch of photos of cars with anime girls on them and other interesting news from Japan

Then they started to think they are game journalists and need to do another "me too" game service.

 

[kazebyaka]

flat chested (or anything smaller than a C) and or plain looking women in games from now on?

i wouldn't mind this at all, actually.

 

[Wellscha]

lol really?? The art style is fine. You're just a prude.

So me wanting to stop the trend of Sexualizing women in video games makes me a prude? then I'm the prudest of the pruding prude.

But what if she's one of those women that chooses to dress that way?

Spoiler

I know she's not real

No woman would design a character that would sexually objectify her gender like that.

 

[Finn of Ooo]

I can get past the juvenile character design, and it is juvenile, but the childish "lol u gay bro?" response firmly cements my decision to not purchase this game. I don't care how fun it ends up being, I refuse to support such an immature douche.

 

[LiK]

Many find DoA very sexist and there were a lot of discussions about it. Personally I don't find it that offensive, it's more repulsive and it seems that I not alone.

I think it's fine you don't like the art style. I'm personally not into effeminate looking men in a lot of games these days that are designed to appeal for the female audience. Personal taste.

i wouldn't mind this at all, actually.

There's an elf girl in the game for you.

 

[Zaventem]

i wouldn't mind this at all, actually.

Nah you'lll mind.If that happens the topic will be "WHY DOES THE GAME INDUSTRY LIKE PLAY WITH LITTLE GIRLS"

 

[Uncle Rupee]

So me wanting to stop the trend of Sexualizing women in video games makes me a prude? then I'm the prudest of the pruding prude.

Does this want manifest itself in not buying games that objectify female characters? Because good luck with that.
Besides, this looks more to me like a celebration than an objectification.

 

[Dead Man]

There's an elf girl in the game for you.

Ah, but full dressed Stupid small breast discrimination.

 

[djplaeskool]

So me wanting to stop the trend of Sexualizing women in video games makes me a prude?

Kamitani's art has been this style for decades.
It sounds like you think he's actively going out of his way to insult people. I just don't think that's the case.

 

[Metrotab]

Sexually objectifying women.

So it is wrong to design sexy characters in videogames? Or is it wrong to do so exaggeratedly, even when this fits into the artistic design and vision of the game?