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[Persona86]

I believe those that are saying the design is inappropriate would say the same about music videos or movies.

Well I hope they also notice all the similar things that happen with men in media too. Look at all those dramas that have a big focus on a unrealistic amount of attractive men. Wherever you go to read about the shows, you will see comments from women mostly talking about hot a certain guy is. Women love to talk about all the hot guys in media.

Let's not forget about those crappy gossip magazines that women love to buy that focuses on making fun of other women e.g look how fat Britney looks in these beach photos, look how skinny Beyonce has gotten etc

I don't know why we single out men with these topics, women are just as bad as men when it comes to sexually objectifying men and women.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

It's only disingenuous if someone claims to be fighting a bigger fight on someone elses behalf, otherwise it is just what people do. The advance what they think is right.


Right. So everyone is pushing their own agenda. Every single person. It's what people do.

I'm not telling anyone to change anything. If everyone pushes their agenda and expects game developers to cater to them all video games would be terrible jumbled messes. I don't like the art style of the new Injustice, but I didn't constantly complain about it. Its fine to HAVE an agenda, but pushing your opinions on other people and expecting them to change things to cater to your personal taste is unreasonable.

Maybe if someone doesn't like the art style instead of sitting around complaining about it they could actually go play a video game they like the art style of instead of expecting every game to be modified to appeal to them.

 

[sorakirosaki]

So me wanting to stop the trend of Sexualizing women in video games makes me a prude? then I'm the prudest of the pruding prude.



No woman would design a character that would sexually objectify her gender like that.

Kino nishimura would like a word with you

this was drawn by a woman

 

[CTLance]

Meh.

The artwork is a hop and a skip beyond my personal "female aesthetic appreciation limit" if there is such a thing - like way too many games starring females in any way before this. Not that I don't appreciate fanservice, being a healthy heterosexual male and all... and the game design and previous works kinda make it fit, anyway.

That said, I wouldn't mind them giving gamers less nauseatingly oscillating/barely clothed reskins. Hell, I'd love a tongue-in-cheek "muscle mage" skin. Not everything must be srs bzns all the time. OPTIONS is what we need.

Maximum PC solution: let a "14-year-old girl" design female-friendly versions.



'Way I see it, the issue raised in the article is a real one, but the way it is approached is just completely off and precludes any civil discussion. Same with the "answer". This is knee-jerk reaction central.

Also, I miss the times when Videogaming was about the games, not the mouthbreathing idiots that make and/or play and/or review them. But maybe I'm just getting old and crotchety.

 

[LiK]

Kino nishimura would like a word with you

Haha yes, show him some samples. Nishimura has no qualms designing sexy women in revealing outfits.

 

[nailbombxx]

So me wanting to stop the trend of Sexualizing women in video games makes me a prude? then I'm the prudest of the pruding prude.



No woman would design a character that would sexually objectify her gender like that.

Sexualization/glorification of women has been a thing for hundreds of years. Don't blame Kamitani, Dragon's Crown or video games, blame society.

 

[Lord Ghirahim]

Nah you'lll mind.If that happens the topic will be "WHY DOES THE GAME INDUSTRY LIKE PLAY WITH LITTLE GIRLS"

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=515852

 

[kazebyaka]

There's an elf girl in the game for you.

I meant i want more flatchested girls in blockbuster games. And more games than one in hundred

Nah you'lll mind.If that happens the topic will be "WHY DOES THE GAME INDUSTRY LIKE PLAY WITH LITTLE GIRLS"

Women are nice too. Why can't new Lara Croft looks like this?

 

[Pinko Marx]

Why can't the sorceress just be a sexual person and be proud of her body without it being a sexist thing?

 

[Persona86]

No woman would design a character that would sexually objectify her gender like that.

HAHAHA! You would be surprised how many women play hentai games and enjoy looking at pretty designed women, and designing women similar to that, have you not been on DeviantArt before, have you not seen cosplayers before?

Also a woman designed Bayonetta, who is a strong female character with a sexual look.

 

[Dead Man]

I'm not telling anyone to change anything. If everyone pushes their agenda and expects game developers to cater to them all video games would be terrible jumbled messes. I don't like the art style of the new Injustice, but I didn't constantly complain about it. Its fine to HAVE an agenda, but pushing your opinions on other people and expecting them to change things to cater to your personal taste is unreasonable.

Maybe if someone doesn't like the art style instead of sitting around complaining about it they could actually go play a video game they like the art style of instead of expecting every game to be modified to appeal to them.

If everyone was listened to, yes. That doesn't mean people shouldn't push their self interest. Otherwise you will never get what you want. It is up to devs to make the game they want to make. And it is up to consumers to ask for the games they want. When people discuss what they want or don't like on a message board, it is not some grand indictment to be pushing your own agenda.

 

[michaelius]

No woman would design a character that would sexually objectify her gender like that.

Aren't at least a part of Japanise Mature/Adult mangas drawn by woman ?

 

[Raonak]

I sometimes wonder why everyone think kotaku is a joke.

But then I get a story every week reminding me why.

 

[Knux-Future]

I just wish people would just stop saying "this is juvenile or repulsive"

You don't like it.

That's it.

By added those modifier, you perhaps unintentionally give off the air of a arrogant prick who constantly has to be "better" than others.

That's why these topics suck because the "offended" side has an aura of "im above you because I take offense or don't like this".

I'm sure that's not what you are saying but man it's how you all come off as.

It's okay to not like something. and it's okay to have your reasons. I hate the athestics for more modern games...too much brown and although I hate the word Dudebro..I hate that style too.

The difference is that I am not looking down on those that do. I'm not inadvertantly calling them losers or sexist or repulsive.

By calling something repulsive or juvenile..you are insulting those that like it.

I don't get that Pony shit but hey let them enjoy themselves.

I just really hate the air of superiority these threads tend to take on.

both sides..calling someone a prude for not liking it..is just as bad guys.

 

[Gokurakumaru]

It's only disingenuous if someone claims to be fighting a bigger fight on someone elses behalf, otherwise it is just what people do. The advance what they think is right.

You should reread the post I quoted, because "dude" was suggesting he is fighting on our behalf. He has defined the "problem" as he sees it, and is arguing "we as gamers" should be fixing it via developer feedback (read: nag until they change it). To make armour "better" for example, as long as "better" is whatever his agenda defines it to mean.

 

[Rickenslacker]

No woman would design a character that would sexually objectify her gender like that.

Really?

 

[Seda]

I don't care for the art/character design either, but I think the original article is unneeded and the response is a bit childish.

 

[Wynnebeck]

So me wanting to stop the trend of Sexualizing women in video games makes me a prude? then I'm the prudest of the pruding prude.



No woman would design a character that would sexually objectify her gender like that.

LOL! Ok, so according to your logic, if a woman drew a female character with large breasts and an alluring figure using herself as a basis, she's still sexualizing women in video games?

I don't even.

 

[sorakirosaki]

I just wish people would just stop saying "this is juvenile or repulsive"

You don't like it.

That's it.

By added those modifier, you perhaps unintentionally give off the air of a arrogant prick who constantly has to be "better" than others.

That's why these topics suck because the "offended" side has an aura of "im above you because I take offense or don't like this".

I'm sure that's not what you are saying but man it's how you all come off as.

It's okay to not like something. and it's okay to have your reasons. I hate the athestics for more modern games...too much brown and although I hate the word Dudebro..I hate that style too.

The difference is that I am not looking down on those that do. I'm not inadvertantly calling them losers or sexist or repulsive.

By calling something repulsive or juvenile..you are insulting those that like it.

I don't get that Pony shit but hey let them enjoy themselves.

I just really hate the air of superiority these threads tend to take on.

both sides..calling someone a prude for not liking it..is just as bad guys.

dude....you have my respect seriously this is the feeling ive been having with everything and everyone in general thank you for writing this

 

[Metrotab]

I just wish people would just stop saying "this is juvenile or repulsive"

You don't like it.

That's it.

By added those modifier, you perhaps unintentionally give off the air of a arrogant prick who constantly has to be "better" than others.

That's why these topics suck because the "offended" side has an aura of "im above you because I take offense or don't like this".

I'm sure that's not what you are saying but man it's how you all come off as.

It's okay to not like something. and it's okay to have your reasons. I hate the athestics for more modern games...too much brown and although I hate the word Dudebro..I hate that style too.

The difference is that I am not looking down on those that do. I'm not inadvertantly calling them losers or sexist or repulsive.

By calling something repulsive or juvenile..you are insulting those that like it.

I don't get that Pony shit but hey let them enjoy themselves.

I just really hate the air of superiority these threads tend to take on.

both sides..calling someone a prude for not liking it..is just as bad guys.

This describes my current position completely. So much vitriol and hard words because of some character design.

 

[LiK]

I just wish people would just stop saying "this is juvenile or repulsive"

You don't like it.

That's it.

By added those modifier, you perhaps unintentionally give off the air of a arrogant prick who constantly has to be "better" than others.

That's why these topics suck because the "offended" side has an aura of "im above you because I take offense or don't like this".

I'm sure that's not what you are saying but man it's how you all come off as.

It's okay to not like something. and it's okay to have your reasons. I hate the athestics for more modern games...too much brown and although I hate the word Dudebro..I hate that style too.

The difference is that I am not looking down on those that do. I'm not inadvertantly calling them losers or sexist or repulsive.

By calling something repulsive or juvenile..you are insulting those that like it.

I don't get that Pony shit but hey let them enjoy themselves.

I just really hate the air of superiority these threads tend to take on.

both sides..calling someone a prude for not liking it..is just as bad guys.

A pretty good summation.

 

[Levyne]

People get worked up on the dumbest shit, huh

 

[Gonzo The Great]

Women with sexy bodies can't be heroes and they should be ashamed of themselves.

Sexy bodies? With breasts that large, she shouldn't even be able to move. I'm amazed that people on GAF are defending this clown when he blatantly insinuated that Schreier is homosexual based on the fact that he doesn't like the unnecessary sexualization of virtual women. Think of it this way: how does the sorceress character benefit from looking the way she does? Had her breasts been significantly smaller in size, would the game be any different? Of course not, she was deliberately designed this way for a reason, and that was to pander to easily aroused 14 year-old boys. I don't blame Schreier for being frustrated, and Kamitani's juvenile response doesn't make the situation any better.

 

[SmokyDave]

No woman would design a character that would sexually objectify her gender like that.

Man, I wish I understood women as well as you do.

 

[michaelius]

People get worked up on the dumbest shit, huh

That's how GAF works.

You find smallest issue - drop it on the forum - and boom watch 20 pages thread of hilarous comments

 

[cutmeamango]

G. Kamitani, I like you good.

Good looking, hairy strong man playfully roughhousing = gay?
Some of you are awfully noxious to your own.

 

[Seda]

People get worked up on the dumbest shit, huh

"NeoGAF".gif

 

[djplaeskool]

People get worked up on the dumbest shit, huh

Basically.

 

[Dead Man]

You should reread the post I quoted, because "dude" was suggesting he is fighting on our behalf. He has defined the "problem" as he sees it, and is arguing "we as gamers" should be fixing it via developer feedback (read: nag until they change it). To make armour "better" for example, as long as "better" is whatever his agenda defines it to mean.

But that is just him arguing for what he feels is right. No different to anyone elses thoughts on what they feel is right.

But feedback like this is not like loke test feedback for a fighting game making it more competitive and therefore objectively a better game. This is just "fans" pretending to represent the greater good when in reality they're just pushing their own agenda.

Your comment was not directed at an individual, but people that you call 'fans'. If their interest is for less depiction of women that look like this, pushing their agenda is completely legitimate.

It just bothers me there are so many phrases that are thrown around at the moment to dismiss an argument rather than address it. Pushing an agenda has become some horrible thing to do, when it is what everyone does when they argue for a view point.

I don't necessarily agree with dude, but it doesn't seem like he is being dishonest in his motivations.

 

[Metrotab]

Sexy bodies? With breasts that large, she shouldn't even be able to move. I'm amazed that people on GAF are defending this clown when he blatantly insinuated that Schreier is homosexual based on the fact that he doesn't like the unnecessary sexualization of virtual women. Think of it this way: how does the sorceress character benefit from looking the way she does? Had her breasts been significantly smaller in size, would the game be any different? Of course not, she was deliberately designed this way for a reason, and that was to pander to easily aroused 14 year-old boys. I don't blame Schreier for being frustrated, and Kamitani's juvenile response doesn't make the situation any better.

Or maybe it's part of an overarching artistic vision? This game has a lot of thought put into its design.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

If everyone was listened to, yes. That doesn't mean people shouldn't push their self interest. Otherwise you will never get what you want. It is up to devs to make the game they want to make. And it is up to consumers to ask for the games they want. When people discuss what they want or don't like on a message board, it is not some grand indictment to be pushing your own agenda.

You'd have a point if every games art style was like Dragons Crown. As it is there are plenty of options for various art styles you can choose from and games with Dragon Crowns art style are rare and niche. There's no reason to complain that games from one individual company don't appeal to you. Every game shouldn't be for everyone and its getting tiresome watching people constanly complain that every game isn't tailored to be something that they enjoy.

 

[Lord Ghirahim]

Kino nishimura would like a word with you

this was drawn by a woman

Fixed your link.

 

[LiK]

Sexy bodies? With breasts that large, she shouldn't even be able to move. I'm amazed that people on GAF are defending this clown when he blatantly insinuated that Schreier is homosexual based on the fact that he doesn't like the unnecessary sexualization of virtual women. Think of it this way: how does the sorceress character benefit from looking the way she does? Had her breasts been significantly smaller in size, would the game be any different? Of course not, she was deliberately designed this way for a reason, and that was to pander to easily aroused 14 year-old boys. I don't blame Schreier for being frustrated, and Kamitani's juvenile response doesn't make the situation any better.

Why are most movie and TV celebrities good looking? Why do HBO shows include sex scenes for no good reason? Why do superheroes in comics all wear skintight clothing?

Sex sells.

 

[Uthred]

No woman would design a character that would sexually objectify her gender like that.

This is both a) hilariously ignorant, b) in a way weirdly sexist as it sets out a role for women and then dictates that to be a "real woman" you must adhere to said role and c) is even funnier due to b).

 

[Gonzo The Great]

People get worked up on the dumbest shit, huh

Why waste your time posting in the topic if you have nothing to contribute to the discussion? You might as well just spam Joker gifs and chant "Why so serious?" repeatedly.

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

Aren't at least a part of Japanise Mature/Adult mangas drawn by woman ?

Several high profile ones are, actually. Sekirei, for example, was known for large breasted, wide hipped bombshells who constantly appeared nude and scantly clad. It's basically pokemon as women. Granted, as the story comes to a head, the amount of fanservice has declined a ton.

Oddly, the author of that, Sakurako Gokurakuin, was more known for her Yoai and shoutacon manga before that series.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Sexy bodies? With breasts that large, she shouldn't even be able to move.

I love that people keep bringing up this point. Do you think someone built like the dwarf could move around? Or howabout the fighter with his tiny lower body and gigantic upper body? Why isn't he just falling over all the time?

Think of it this way: how does the sorceress character benefit from looking the way she does? Had her breasts been significantly smaller in size, would the game be any different?

No, it wouldn't, but having her with large breasts doesn't change anything either. She's an exaggeration of what a sorceress generally looks like. As I said before, you you do a google image search for sorceress you'll see that large breasts that are either bulging out of tops or completely exposed are the common theme among them.

 

[Usobuko]

I'm amazing at the amount of posts defending an art style that is demeaning to women under the guise of "OH! it's made by a Japanese developer, so rules don't apply here."

This is such an embarrassing post, there's no difference when you switch the statement to ' Oh, it's made by those abominable Japanese, so I along with others who shared my hatred for them should make our voice loud and clear on this'.

I know a woman who is put off with G.Kamitani artstyle and another who is indifference to it. I don't have an agenda to argue for either cases, I only step in when you and the other guy which I quoted in the last few pages insist of sweeping a broad generalisation to some of the people here. It's the same case with moe/loli, I am not a fan but I am willing to defend the stereotypical insults that these guys are paedophile in disguise.

 

[Wynnebeck]

Sexy bodies? With breasts that large, she shouldn't even be able to move. I'm amazed that people on GAF are defending this clown when he blatantly insinuated that Schreier is homosexual based on the fact that he doesn't like the unnecessary sexualization of virtual women. Think of it this way: how does the sorceress character benefit from looking the way she does? Had her breasts been significantly smaller in size, would the game be any different? Of course not, she was deliberately designed this way for a reason, and that was to pander to easily aroused 14 year-old boys. I don't blame Schreier for being frustrated, and Kamitani's juvenile response doesn't make the situation any better.

1. So now you are saying women with breasts that large can't even move. Ok.

2. You have no way to substantiate Kamitani was calling Schreier homosexual.

3. Kamitani draws all of his subjects in exaggerated form. Saying he did it just to pander to 14-year-olds is ridiculous.

4. You really need to stop.

 

[sorakirosaki]

Sexy bodies? With breasts that large, she shouldn't even be able to move. I'm amazed that people on GAF are defending this clown when he blatantly insinuated that Schreier is homosexual based on the fact that he doesn't like the unnecessary sexualization of virtual women. Think of it this way: how does the sorceress character benefit from looking the way she does? Had her breasts been significantly smaller in size, would the game be any different? Of course not, she was deliberately designed this way for a reason, and that was to pander to easily aroused 14 year-old boys. I don't blame Schreier for being frustrated, and Kamitani's juvenile response doesn't make the situation any better.

As people have said multiple times its an exaggeration and its an exaggerated version of american fantasy art which apparently can be just as bad. Now if the size of the sorcerers chest is smaller it wouldnt change the game. But the artist is going for the exaggerated style as many people have said in this topic. Also im sick and tired of this word pandering or otaku centric or bs i keep reading on gaf. Its becoming harder and harder to just enjoy something without the fear of being judged.

 

[Persona86]

Sexy bodies? With breasts that large, she shouldn't even be able to move. .

Come on now she has big strong legs to help carry herself, and there are some women out there with huge boobs like that

Spoiler

and backpains

Also it's exaggerated on purpose! She's a Wizard or something, she's not even real.

She might have a problem when she's older thou, but let's not go there haha.

 

[Dead Man]

You'd have a point if every games art style was like Dragons Crown. As it is there are plenty of options for various art styles you can choose from and games in Dragon Crowns art style are rare and niche. There's no reason to complain that games from one individual company don't appeal to you. Every game shouldn't be for everyone and its getting tiresome watching people constanly complain that every game isn't tailored to be something that they enjoy.

There's no reason to complain for 90% of shit that people complain about then. And you are ignoring that people might feel that there is a greater good rather than just personal taste motivating their complaints.

Similarly, if you have options on what posts to read, don't complain about the ones you don't like (not snarky, just a joke)

 

[nailbombxx]

Sexy bodies? With breasts that large, she shouldn't even be able to move. I'm amazed that people on GAF are defending this clown when he blatantly insinuated that Schreier is homosexual based on the fact that he doesn't like the unnecessary sexualization of virtual women. Think of it this way: how does the sorceress character benefit from looking the way she does?

She is an animated character in a fantasy video game with magic, dragons, and demons. She benefits from looking like that by fitting in with all of the equally proportionately exaggerated characters and as being eye candy to anyone who appreciates the form of women, regardless of how exaggerated.

Let me repeat, this is a 2D video game.

 

[sorakirosaki]

Fixed your link.

thanks

 

[MYeager]

That wasn't much of an article as it was just a quick comment on the art design. The same kind of comment that several made in the Dragon's Crown thread here. G. Kamitani's response to it also seemed like the kind of response a teenage boy might make (oh you don't like tits, well here's some burly men for you).

Don't care though, hope the game is good.

 

[djplaeskool]

I'm going to love the Blade & Soul threads once that game hits the western shores...

 

[Gonzo The Great]

Why are most movie and TV celebrities good looking? Why do HBO shows include sex scenes for no good reason? Why are superheroes in comics all wear skintight clothing?

Sex sells.

And? Of course it does. Does that mean Schreier is thereby not allowed to criticize it simply because it sells? That being said, an argument over consequentialism will go nowhere.

 

[Uthred]

Think of it this way: how does the sorceress character benefit from looking the way she does? Had her breasts been significantly smaller in size, would the game be any different? Of course not, she was deliberately designed this way for a reason, and that was to pander to easily aroused 14 year-old boys.

She's designed that way to fit in with the overally hyper-stylised and hyper-exaggerated artistic aesthetic of the game. The game's artstyle is a deliberate choice, one you dont have to agree with but lets not pretend the sorceress is somehow out of place in the game, she isnt. All of the games characters and monsters are fairly standard fantasy archetypes blown out to ridiculous proportions. So she "benefits" by fitting the games artistic vision and direction. You are right that she was deliberately designed that way, you're just wrong about the why.

 

[robotzombie]

The part of all this that annoys me and seems just so phony and disingenuous is that none of these people ever complain about dynasty warriors and sengoku basara, whose sole purpose is to sexualize the male characters making half of them have exposed chests with ridiculous abs and such, on top of just the generally ridiculously tall and muscled men found in all video games. You know, exactly like the drawing that was done in response to the article. So its fine for men to be completely exaggerated, but not women

 

[Adam Blue]

If sex wasn't so taboo, it would be my #1 hobby (it is secretly) and I would talk about it all the time. But society has made it appear shameful, especially for women - when it shouldn't! Sex is what literally makes humans and it feels good. Nothing wrong with that at all.