TAS
Member
Except that the playoffs haven't even begun yet.
But seriously, it's just nonsense to say "Nintendo can't compete with Sony and MS" when history has proved otherwise. That's all I'm saying.
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Gameindustry.biz article on Wii U: Death by SunhiLegend (post 346)
- Thread starter BY2K
- Start date
Except that the playoffs haven't even begun yet.
But seriously, it's just nonsense to say "Nintendo can't compete with Sony and MS" when history has proved otherwise. That's all I'm saying.
BlazingDarkness
Member
Those sales aren't brilliant. Are those numbers across multiple SKUs? If that's the numbers for all platforms combined, then releasing exclusive Sonic games for the Wii U will produce pretty negligible numbers imo.
H_Prestige
Banned
So then why did they suddenly pull out of E3 after all these years? You can't honestly believe having a Direct will reach more people than a real conference. If they have big games this year, unveil them at a conference so they don't get drowned out by MS and Sony.
And he's right about Sonic. It's a dead mascot that hasn't meant anything in years. Going Nintendo exclusive isn't going to change things.
Yup. We're all in it together spreading the message of hate. You saw through our diabolical plan!
JetBlackPanda
Member
Nintendo is still the best company in the market for children and for my daughters sake I hope they stick around.
Even if the Wii U completely tanks, and Nintendo pull support, which is unlikely, Nintendo are still not going anywhere.
Why do people keep saying this. Nintendo will be at e3
Grampa Simpson
Banned
...
No doubt that Nintendo botched the launch, but the industry is just f'n weird.
What's happening with some publishers is just weird.
I feel like the console games industry can be seen as two different industries.
The first one, and the that's trying to emulate the Hollywood blockbuster model. Teams that put together films don't stay around long. They don't last multiple films. At most you get core groups of two or three people. One person is a production company. Small developers die doing this. Only small core groups survive, and everyone else is contracted to work on a per project basis. This model consolidates power to the publishers. This is the model that EA wants. This is the model that Activision wants. And Blockbusters are cool. Everyone wants to work on them.
The other model is model that died in 80s for film. The small studio model where each studio had to be able to handle - through loans or venture backers - aspects of development and publishing, but the small studios have a real chance of creating something lasting.
Blockbusters push out that other model very effectively over the course of years and decades.
EA wants to see the last place where that model finds a home to fail. They're not making the money they want to there, and it would take userbase development for them to make that money. They're making a bet that if they don't invest the money now, they can help Nintendo fail in the market, and won't have to make that investment later. They're working to consolidate the hollywood model.
The only other side of this is that the "indie" model - the model with no funding that doesn't make any money sort of thrives here. But it doesn't matter to EA, because the indie's don't make money, and if they do, they can usually be bought or at worst cloned.
Maybe Wii U dies in the market. Maybe it doesn't.
I just hope that if they do fail out of the Wii U, they take it as an opportunity to merge the Home and Handheld platforms. Maybe give the 4DS the ability to stream to an HDMI receiver - sort of a backwards Wii U.
No doubt that Nintendo botched the launch, but the industry is just f'n weird.
What's happening with some publishers is just weird.
I feel like the console games industry can be seen as two different industries.
The first one, and the that's trying to emulate the Hollywood blockbuster model. Teams that put together films don't stay around long. They don't last multiple films. At most you get core groups of two or three people. One person is a production company. Small developers die doing this. Only small core groups survive, and everyone else is contracted to work on a per project basis. This model consolidates power to the publishers. This is the model that EA wants. This is the model that Activision wants. And Blockbusters are cool. Everyone wants to work on them.
The other model is model that died in 80s for film. The small studio model where each studio had to be able to handle - through loans or venture backers - aspects of development and publishing, but the small studios have a real chance of creating something lasting.
Blockbusters push out that other model very effectively over the course of years and decades.
EA wants to see the last place where that model finds a home to fail. They're not making the money they want to there, and it would take userbase development for them to make that money. They're making a bet that if they don't invest the money now, they can help Nintendo fail in the market, and won't have to make that investment later. They're working to consolidate the hollywood model.
The only other side of this is that the "indie" model - the model with no funding that doesn't make any money sort of thrives here. But it doesn't matter to EA, because the indie's don't make money, and if they do, they can usually be bought or at worst cloned.
Maybe Wii U dies in the market. Maybe it doesn't.
I just hope that if they do fail out of the Wii U, they take it as an opportunity to merge the Home and Handheld platforms. Maybe give the 4DS the ability to stream to an HDMI receiver - sort of a backwards Wii U.
Spinning what exactly?
It just might the least exciting system of all time from a hardware standpoint but I bought it for Nintendo games and I'm sure I'll be satisfied eventually.
I just wish they would switch to an account based system sometime in the next decade, I really don't feel like buying virtual console stuff just to have it disappear if my console dies.
They certainly have a tough road ahead of them with this thing but it definitely will be worth owning one this Christmas if you like good video games.
I just wish they would switch to an account based system sometime in the next decade, I really don't feel like buying virtual console stuff just to have it disappear if my console dies.
They certainly have a tough road ahead of them with this thing but it definitely will be worth owning one this Christmas if you like good video games.
BlazingDarkness
Member
The comments earlier in the thread about people shitting on Sonic because its now a Nintendo exclusive are amazing :lol
Yup.
The thing to remember is that even the Wii, while selling like crazy, had trouble selling third party titles. Compared to the Wii U which is simply not selling, chances of any meaningful third party support is near 0 at this point.
They simply cannot maintain a platform on their first party offerings.
Steve Youngblood
Member
I think it depends on how you define "turn things around." If you mean that it might perform at or below the GameCube before all is said and done and eek out meager profit margins, then I can see it. If you mean make this thing a legitimate contender, then I am extremely skeptical. I honestly hope for their sake that this holiday season turns things around enough to make it viable for a few more years. That's about the best that I expect.
The worst case scenario is that they end up focusing mostly on the 3DS and the Wii U becomes their Vita. Either way, I'm not expecting them to outright pull the plug on it and give it zero support. But I also don't think that a few big holiday games are going to completely turn this ship around like some think in the wake of the hype machine of two new, more powerful machines given the complete and utter failure of Nintendo to generate legitimate interest up to this point.
Put more succinctly, I don't think the situation is entirely unsalvagable, but I do think that Nintendo is in far worse shape with the Wii U than many Nintendo fans who think they're a Mario Kart release away from soaring success would like to believe.
JetBlackPanda
Member
hmmm.
H_Prestige
Banned
I know. I'm talking about not having a conference. Just setting some demo stations won't generate much buzz.
No thanks, I prefer to stay fully conscious.
JetBlackPanda
Member
Seeing Reggie dance around on stage doesn't either. Look nobody really knows how this E3 is going to go but I don't think its going to be as bad as you think for N.
Fourth Storm
Member
Same, my daughter is due in August. Would be a damn shame if she never got to play any Nintendo consoles.
Agreed. I find it comical how people automatically assume the NextBox and PS4 are going to do gangbusters when you consider console hardware & software sale are down and that game studios have been going out of business left and right. If they're priced $499 or higher, MS & Sony's systems are going to struggle.
Also, Nintendo's not gonna disappear overnight, like Sega after the Dreamcast. They're sitting on a huge warchest of money, so it'll take more for the Big N to leave the console gaming business.
Hot Coldman
Banned
gonna take a wild guess and say the writer doesn't keep up with Sonic much
aside from that, that's some glorious viciousness on display
aside from that, that's some glorious viciousness on display
Can you blame him?
Schnozberry
Member
It depends on how you see Nintendo and 2nd parties leveraging the Wii U Gamepad in the future. It doesn't seem like 3rd parties know what to do with it, as several developers have commented that they are clueless. Rayman Legends seems to make the best use of it, and I'm having some great experiences playing with my wife, who normally hates video games.
It's certainly not an easy concept to explain, and it's got a much narrower focus than the Wii's easy to pick up controls, so in a sense you are right that it is not a trendsetting feature like Nintendo has had in the past. But I think it will find a market if the right pieces of software come along. The only hope Nintendo has at this point is to drive the install base with proven franchises. If that doesn't work, they'll have to move on in short order.
How much is console hardware down when you factor out the Wii bubble?
The Wii gave the market massive growth, but it was not for long. Now it's all returning to normal, pre-Wii levels. Not scared.
Visualante2
Member
and how Ubisoft, EA, Activision et al stood by Sony because they believed in the platform. I do remember that.
Schnozberry
Member
Holy shit congrats! My daughter is nearly 3 and can already win a few games here and there at Luigi's Ghost Mansion. Seeing how proud she is of herself winning that game nearly makes me cry every time. I'm also a complete sap, so your mileage may vary.
E3 is a bleeding money pit, and the sooner more people pull out of it in the capacity Nintendo has, the better. It's a trade show of diminishing returns year over year because of the trends of sudden announcements and even more trade shows. Even companies having their own shows to reveal stuff on their own terms entirely. There's no reason to bank on E3 anymore for most of these companies beyond old habit. There's especially no reason for Nintendo to bank on it like they used to pre-Direct. For the last few E3's, they've only shown games that they intend to launch within a very short period of time from their showing. That entire premise has been migrated into Nintendo Direct. There is no reason to have a traditional conference for the same shit.
E3 really is like a rotting corpse we all run to because it's our grandfather, but it's time to kick the fucker into a coffin and move on. It's really losing its place in this industry.
Harsh article.
A few comments:
-The authors view of Sonic is completely off base. His games do very well still and having him as an exclusive *should* help the console. I know he is trying to make the point that Nintendo is in a bad spot but just making things up and ignoring facts to prove a point makes him come across like a troll.
-We don't know how E3 will turn out. The media is getting their own presentation so they will be writing about Nintendo. I wish we were getting a full conference rather than a direct. The conferences are big deals that a lot of people pay attention to. letting Sony and MS have the spotlight is dangerous.
-Overall its typical Nintendoomed stuff. We'll see - if the console has not changed by the fall then we can say its doomed. But for now its too early. At the very least, wait until E3.
A few comments:
-The authors view of Sonic is completely off base. His games do very well still and having him as an exclusive *should* help the console. I know he is trying to make the point that Nintendo is in a bad spot but just making things up and ignoring facts to prove a point makes him come across like a troll.
-We don't know how E3 will turn out. The media is getting their own presentation so they will be writing about Nintendo. I wish we were getting a full conference rather than a direct. The conferences are big deals that a lot of people pay attention to. letting Sony and MS have the spotlight is dangerous.
-Overall its typical Nintendoomed stuff. We'll see - if the console has not changed by the fall then we can say its doomed. But for now its too early. At the very least, wait until E3.
JetBlackPanda
Member
I pretty much agree.
If you guys need anymore proof that E3 is a shadow of its former self.. look at both Sony and Microsoft having exclusive meetings for hardware before E3. Its better to have the day to yourself then to try and get gaming journalists to run around from booth to booth and pick up information.
We have two threads on the same thing so I'm just gonna cross-post:
I agree with the article for the most part. I don't agree with the conclusion though: going third party is not the answer. In another thread I advocated a unified system in about Holiday 2016, and I think that's the way to go. Nintendo's culture is closely tied to hardware as well as software, and they still enough pull to make a console work. The problem is the Wii U was ill-conceived. Say Holiday 2016 they release a new handheld and a $99 console with the same guts (let's say Tegra 5 for the hell of it), with their development resources focussed to a single platform I think that would be a compelling value proposition for consumers. Meanwhile, let the Wii U limp along on life support for another couple of years while ensuring the 3DS brand stays strong.
I agree with the article for the most part. I don't agree with the conclusion though: going third party is not the answer. In another thread I advocated a unified system in about Holiday 2016, and I think that's the way to go. Nintendo's culture is closely tied to hardware as well as software, and they still enough pull to make a console work. The problem is the Wii U was ill-conceived. Say Holiday 2016 they release a new handheld and a $99 console with the same guts (let's say Tegra 5 for the hell of it), with their development resources focussed to a single platform I think that would be a compelling value proposition for consumers. Meanwhile, let the Wii U limp along on life support for another couple of years while ensuring the 3DS brand stays strong.
I still say Nintendo is waiting for Sony and Microsoft to announce pricing for their consoles so they can decide on the amount they want to drop Wii U by.
If both PS4 and XBox Whatchamacalit are both $400+. I can see Nintendo dropping the Wii U Basic completely and reducing the Deluxe to $250 with Mario Wii U as a pack in. Do that for the holidays along with the stronger game line-up and Wii U will move mega units.
BlazingDarkness
Member
The difference being, Sony and Microsoft need only to sell their new hardware to current PS3/360 owners to be considered moderately successful. Nintendo with the Wii U would need to try and recapture the casual boom they triggered with the Wii, which is nigh on impossible because the very nature of the Wii U hardware contrasts to the multiplayer focus the Wii had - and it's clear those same demographics aren't interested in Nintendo's new offerings.
The decline in the market is probably largely due to Nintendo's diffusion and not enitrely representative of any greater trends. I bet a lot of consumers are just holding out for the PS4/720 - it's clear there's a lot of interest for the platforms.
Dear lord it reads like a fanboi article from a one platform fan website. I dont think anyone is kidding themselves that the wii u is going to bother the next xbox or playstion, it will still be home to nintendo games and as always its the only reason to own the platform. I will be catered for by third parties on one of the other platforms so losing all third party support means nothing to most people who buy the wii u. People go on like doing a dreamcast or cube is bad for the gamer, not really it might be bad for nintendo as a company and i dont really care about that id take another dreamcast of cube in a heart beat as they were home to some of the best games ive ever played.
Schnozberry
Member
How do you know how many people are interested in PS4/720? If you're going based on GAF, I think that's probably a poor way to gauge the overall market. Also, interest and intent to buy are very different. There are a lot of people interested in Hawaiian Vacations too, until they learn about the price and other factors.
I imagine it's said a lot at NCL.
MisterHero
Super Member
So E3 is a pissing contest. That's bad. However, exiting the pissing contest apprently shows a lack of confidence. That's also bad.
What's the road to common sense then?
Wii U's situation is awful, but the article's intent of writing it off doesn't offer insight to Nintendo, or anyone else. Neither has it done anything helpful leading up to this point.
Industry apathetic over Gamecube despite Nintendo's personal success
Industry superficially applauds Wii's novel interface, major publishers offer apathetic support
Industry apathetic over Wii despite success
Industry apathetic over Nintendo games, despite success
Industry apathetic over real problems like Wii U's pricing and lack of games
Oh shit industry is apathetic about Nintendo.
I don't think the industry owes Nintendo anything. Nintendo is responsible for their success and they do need outside pressure sometimes to get shit done. This article is overkill while stating nothing.
God forbid Nintendo also try to help a Sega franchise escape obscurity. Securing Resident Evil didn't save Nintendo either, but it delivered RE0 and RE4.
Perhaps ironically, REvelations being ported to all systems is evidence that a "lesser" platform can still lead.
As for securing other franchises, maybe they're wasting their time on Yakuza if it doesn't get localized. In fact I wish they did the same with Metal Gear. Its collection is already done.
Having the entire industry and electronics world tuned into a convention that has 45,000+ attendees is hardly irrelevant. E3 is still massive, and this year will easily be the biggest we've seen in a long time.
Visualante2
Member
Legacy from Sega's dominance in the 16 bit era.. even my mother knows "Sonic Hedgehog".
The know-it-alls always come out to play when Nintendo is down. They never are able to see an outcome besides "Nintendo is doomed." Nor do they acknowledge Nintendo's dedication to their platforms, and their proven ability to bring their devices to relatively decent performing levels.
Being critical of Nintendo's effort(or lack thereof) is one thing, but the constant cries of doom - inevitable doom - is like a weird extension of their desires. Like; "Yes, Nintendo's day of reckoning was a long time coming, but it's finally here! Thank you Lord!"
In the midst of it all, Nintendo seems certain they can turn this dire situation around. After they've successfully pull off similar feats in the past, and knowing that we have yet to see Nintendo's major software push, the least we can do is wait a few more months while we leave the question open: Will Nintendo turn this around?.
Being critical of Nintendo's effort(or lack thereof) is one thing, but the constant cries of doom - inevitable doom - is like a weird extension of their desires. Like; "Yes, Nintendo's day of reckoning was a long time coming, but it's finally here! Thank you Lord!"
In the midst of it all, Nintendo seems certain they can turn this dire situation around. After they've successfully pull off similar feats in the past, and knowing that we have yet to see Nintendo's major software push, the least we can do is wait a few more months while we leave the question open: Will Nintendo turn this around?.
BlazingDarkness
Member
Compare the pre/post Wii U launch hype compared to the hype accrued since Sony's PS Meeting event and it's pretty clear there's a gulf of a difference, across the whole internet. And yes, gamers who frequent internet forums aren't necessarily representative of a wider demographic, but they are the sort whom are early adopters, and the market at large hasn't exactly taken to the Wii U - Nintendo's head start with the platform has proved completely fruitless. The PS Meeting teaser alone probably had more clicks than any Wii U video released, and the latter is an actual console with games, that can be purchased right now. It's clear that people are waiting for other things to spend their money on.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
It's hard for me to muster up the enthusiasm to cheer on Nintendo at the moment. You've got sales of hardware that are laughable. You've got sales of software so low that a major third party is refusing to develop any more games for it. Which is turn is going to send out a huge message to other 3rd party devs to not bother. This is after we were told by Nintendo that this time it would be different and WiiU would be the 3rd party developers machine of choice. Utter utter lies.
Add in an extremely piss poor launch line up and then further exacerbate the situation by having no decent first party games to release, in what must be the longest "launch window" in console history.
So excuse me If I don't put on my ra ra skirt and dance the fandango. I'm feeling extremely pessimistic about my WiiU at the moment. And unless you've got your Nintendo fanboy googles nailed to your head. I can't see how anyone can see it otherwise.
It's the worst Nintendo console launch of all time. A machine that has failed to launch and has continued to nose dive ever since.
So. Not hate. Just utter incomprehension how Nintendo have failed so badly. And pessimism for the future because Nintendo have not publicly recognised the problem and what they are going to do about it.
Schnozberry
Member
No doubt Nintendo botched their launch. It's not even really up for debate anymore. But saying that the PS Meeting is indicative of launch sales is far fetched. We know almost nothing about it, aside from a few launch window games and what the controller looks like. Once the mystique wears off and we know the price, launch games, and the price of services, we'll see what real world demand looks like.
JordanN
Banned
E3 2013 is going to be the last time I give Nintendo a chance. If they still continue to be arrogant, I can't show sympathy for their doom calling and Iwata's job.
It's amazing how over the years, Nintendo just stopped caring and is now doing their best to be hated by everyone. I really despise such behaviour.
It's amazing how over the years, Nintendo just stopped caring and is now doing their best to be hated by everyone. I really despise such behaviour.