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[Pyronite]

And this is why the games industry is the only industry that can get away with this.
Apparantly a big majority of 'gamers' are a bunch of idiots, uncapable, dumb and afraid to stand up for your rights. Sickening

You ever used an e-book, buddy? How about iTunes? I was gonna say Steam, but hey, that's gaming.

There is nothing wrong with the original creator getting a return on their time and money rather than someone who had zero time, effort or money put into the creation of it. They are well within their rights and justified in their morality to push for something like this.

 

[quest]

Look at my girlfriends set up. She has an xbox 360 for games and Netflix / hulu , she had a cable box dvr for cable and she has a bluray player for that.

IF she wants to play a game with me she has to switch inputs to the right device. But if she has an xbox one I can simply send her an invite while she is watching bates motel and then she can just hop right int othe game.

That is a nice feature and its a product that doesn't exist.

She still needs to pick up the remote to use her DVR. Also if she cares about lag on her TV and uses game mode switching inputs is much easier. You can calibrate each input I sure in the hell would not want to watch TV in game mode or play games in movie mode on a LCD TV. Switching inputs on a remote takes all of 3 seconds. It is not that hard to text her babe wanna game? If she is like all women these days her phone is always at her side lol.

 

[patapuf]

Initially the Devs getting a cut didn't sound like a bad compromise but the retailer getting about 10% just means trading in games will be pretty much pointless.

 

[Nealand Liquor]

Has anyone addressed if that $35 (for sake of the argument) goes to the consumer in the form of cash, or is it a credit situation? And if a payment in form of credit is it restricted to that store or restricted to the purchase of other MS games?

 

[Jackpot]

I don't pay £35 even for new games.

 

[mrklaw]

I still don't get the £35 figure, I pay that for brand new 360 games right now.

Clearly when the next gen comes out that'll push new games back up to £49.99.

 

[Papacheeks]

I'm starting to think that Sony must have a similar system in place (or at the very least will give publishers the option to implement something similar on a per game basis).

There's no way that MS can introduce such an anti-consumer system if not all versions of the game are subject to the same used sales restrictions.

Even though Nintendo is doing their own thing and have little to no Third party support, they are not doing this. There are some games like Ubisoft based not doing this, for Wii U, watch dogs, splinter cell, Rayman and assassins creed are all going on Wii U so where's the tying it to your account?

I think this is all Microsoft deal, Sony might have something in place like online passes or something, like a code, but i think they will keep what they have in place. Hence their change in direction. They are pro consumer, pro gamer, since Microsoft is getting so much back lash by everyone, mainstream included. I for see Sony not doing it, if they do then I would have to agree, the gaming industry ill have it's crash and it will start on June 10th.

 

[ConfusedCat]

Analysts are taking great delight that Gamestop is tanking today for osme reason

 

[Woggerman]

I'll say this once, I bought something it's mine.
If I want to break it, piss on it, sell it, lend it or whatever doesn't interest anyone but me.
This system is probably not legal in europe anyway.
On top of that your example is the flimsiest excuse of a rationalisation I would expect from a corporate apologist more than a genuine customer

First off, I don't disagree with anything you said. I do believe this is anti-consumer. At the same time, however, I realize that the current business model does need some changes. It's not working. Look Sony came out last gen with Free online, free multiplayer, etc..... Microsoft had their paywall. Microsoft became profitable very quickly and Sony never recovered. Sony made some headway when PS+ came out and I was a member that first week. Sony, in my opinion made a great business decision and it is paying off. I still believe that Sony will make some changes to their policy.

Look, whether right or wrong, it was going in this direction since online passes were announced. Sony and Microsoft were in the mix. This is the next evolutionary step. I don't like it, but it's the reality. I will be the XBOne to play it's exclusives (especially Forza) and I will buy a PS4(for anything Naughty Dog). I'm not an apologist, just a guy who rolls with the punches and makes a good thing out of a bad one.

 

[QaaQer]

The thing is, it's being driven by the big boys. Do you think EA gives two shits if people stop buying anything non-AAAA? If the middle class disappear completely, but BF achieves a 40 percent increase in revenue, EA is happy. Their market share increases.

Anyone who understands economics knows this isn't going to grow the revenue pie. That's an absurd and naive notion. But it's going to redistribute an even greater percentage of revenue to the Haves. And honestly, I'm not sure MS even cares about anything besides AAAA games these days. So they probably feel good about helping EA/Activision on this issue.

with the way ms has been pissing on indies, and EA has been cutting anything less than a 5million selling franchises, this makes sense.

 

[MikeE21286]

£3.50 profit to the retailer would translate to about $5.

Oh, ok. I thought that poster I quoted was referring to the amount we would receive for trading in a game.


Also....WOOOOOOOWWWWW that's all the retailer gets? So the publisher gets the vast majority of the sale on the used game? I thought it was the opposite, where the retailer would get the biggest portion of the used game sale and the publisher would get a small portion.

Holy shit Gamestop is fuuuuuuuuuuuuuucked!

 

[Dead Man]

You ever used an e-book, buddy? How about iTunes? I was gonna say Steam, but hey, that's gaming.

There is nothing wrong with the original creator getting the return on their time and money rather than someone who had zero time, effort or money put into the creation of it. They are well within their rights and justified in their morality to push for something like this.

Retailers put plenty of time into their stores. You want no retail stores? This idea that retailers contribute nothing just because they are retailers is bizarre. Some are shady as fuck, others are working hard to make a business work.

 

[ConfusedCat]

You ever used an e-book, buddy? How about iTunes? I was gonna say Steam, but hey, that's gaming.

There is nothing wrong with the original creator getting a return on their time and money rather than someone who had zero time, effort or money put into the creation of it. They are well within their rights and justified in their morality to push for something like this.

kindles allow you to loan books to other kindle users, no cost. You just can't use it while they have it.

so you know, books deal with this much better. I CAN STILL FUCKING BUY THE PHYSICAL FUCKING BOOK AS WELL WITH NO DRM

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

Gamefly would probably still be ded, since those fees are unprofitable for selling the games, I can't see rental services being able to afford that.

I don't think Vernor v Autodesk would be relevant for a price fixing charge (which, let's be honest, is exactly what this is: colluding to fix prices).

Oh sure, I just meant the whole "fuck the first sale doctrine", "you purchase only a license" angle.

 

[Con_Smith]

Just do it also Sony so we can all be fucked. This gen will be awful. If sony follows suite, then its back to Nintendo and pc gaming. I will not support this blatant anti consumerism. The potential PR for Nintendo and Steam in all of this is amazing.

That's dumb. Shut up and stop being stupid. We should want all companies to do good and hoping a company support anti consumer policies while saying you don't support them makes you look like an asshole.

 

[Mael]

You ever used an e-book, buddy? How about iTunes? I was gonna say Steam, but hey, that's gaming.

There is nothing wrong with the original creator getting a return on their time and money rather than someone who had zero time, effort or money put into the creation of it. They are well within their rights and justified in their morality to push for something like this.

What service does the content creator provide to the guy who just sold the game to Gamespot?
What service does the content creator provide to Gamespot at all when they buy back a game that will go fill their warehouses?

 

[HaRyu]

I don't know if they have an incentive, though. If they've all colluded to just share the consumer's cut, is Gamestop really losing anything? It's not like customers can sell on Ebay if they don't like getting 5 bucks for their tradein.

Conspiracy theory: Maybe the reason why Gamestop didn't find out about the used game policy is because of the low cut they would have gotten? MS didn't want Gamestop to try and bargain for a higher cut, so they came up with the plan beforehand?

Eh... one conspiracy is as good an any other. I just don't understand how game stores would just gladly accept such a deal.

 

[Last Hearth]

This is going to drive Gamestop out of business. 10% is not nearly good enough margins to keep them afloat.

 

[GQman2121]

I wonder what the industry would be like today if NES, Genesis, and SNES games couldn't be played at a friends house, rented or purchased at a flea market.

This is either desperation of the highest degree or just pure fucking corporate greed. This seems like the most illogical next step for everyone involved that it's unbelievable that the rumors all along (all of them) are turning out to he true.

 

[Delusibeta]

I can't lie, that would be a reasonable price. Still don't like it though.

When new games are £40, it's not.

 

[Xater]

Gamestop shares down almost 7% today.

http://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/gme

Not that I think Gamestop is a great company that desserves to exist, but if I were them I probably wouldn't put this new system on my shelves.

 

[ConfusedCat]

lots of financial tweets about gamestop today, clearly the MCV story has hit a nerve and people are selling

apparently its tanking like crazy

 

[QaaQer]

This sounds like gun laws for video games. I'm all for developers get a cut of the used sale but fuck, if my nephew wants to borrow a game or I want to pass it down to him is there a system in place for that? I like to use services such as Gamefly and Redbox so how will that work. I really want to be reactive and say "Fuck you Micro$haft!" but we really need to see if Sony goes the same way. If they do, this is the new future, if they don't Microsoft may have an up hill battle with retailers like Amazon.

I haven't read the whole thread yet but aren't there some regulatory concerns in the US about restricting resale?

digital items havent gone through the system to the supreme court, so there is no standard yet. Right now, digital items can be restricted anyway the rights holder wants.

 

[ZenTzen]

yeah no, this is still stupid as hell, they are still limiting the used games market to a select few establishments and the borrowing and lending games between friends and family is still pretty much gone, forget the fact that microsoft isnt going around to every country in the world to make these kinds of deals with shops that sell used games, its still bull of the highest order.

 

[QaaQer]

You ever used an e-book, buddy? How about iTunes? I was gonna say Steam, but hey, that's gaming.

There is nothing wrong with the original creator getting a return on their time and money rather than someone who had zero time, effort or money put into the creation of it. They are well within their rights and justified in their morality to push for something like this.

Law is still evolving, dude.

 

[RetroStu]

Considering you can get new games online for £40, £35 seems completely overpriced. I have never purchased a used game for £35 in my life. This is just awful, and I hope Sony don't get ideas.

You can get new games for £35-40 new in stores where i live, i can't remember the last time i saw a brand new game for more than £40.

 

[GQman2121]

That's dumb. Shut up and stop being stupid. We should want all companies to do good and hoping a company support anti consumer policies while saying you don't support them makes you look like an asshole.

The irony....

Do me a favor and Google Don Mattrick's house. Why the Fuck should anyone want or care about companies doing "good"?

 

[ConfusedCat]

Gamestop down 8.5%

and its still going

tip is under $30 by end of trade

also 3.42 million shares traded already FARK

 

[MikeE21286]

Not that I think Gamestop is a great company that desserves to exist, but if I were them I probably wouldn't put this new system on my shelves.

Neither would I based on the cut they are gonna get from these sales.

Wow, I am amazed that the publishers are getting the lions' share of the used game sale.

 

[water_wendi]

Not that I think Gamestop is a great company that desserves to exist, but if I were them I probably wouldn't put this new system on my shelves.

This is the only option that Gamestop has. If i were them i would play ball with Microsoft so that MS would spend the money to build this infrastructure and then pull out at the last minute.

 

[KAL2006]

£35 for used fuck, what has Sony said so far if they follow suit I may have to get into PC gaming. I know steam you can't resell games and it's the same thing but I heard the prices are great, is this true for UK steam?

 

[gofreak]

If the £35 / 10% thing is true, I think a lot of retailers would have serious pause for bothering with Xbox One used games at all.

Maybe that's the point.

On the other hand, maybe they'll take anything they can get. The impact on their business would be substantial though.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

You ever used an e-book, buddy? How about iTunes? I was gonna say Steam, but hey, that's gaming.

There is nothing wrong with the original creator getting a return on their time and money rather than someone who had zero time, effort or money put into the creation of it. They are well within their rights and justified in their morality to push for something like this.

Stop comparing digital media to physical media. It's not the same concept. This is like a book company telling me that I can't lend my friend my print copy of 1984. In which
case I would tell them to fuck off, as I'm pretty sure everyone else buying books would. If this were an option in any other form of media those companies would be taking the option.

 

[Mael]

First off, I don't disagree with anything you said. I do believe this is anti-consumer. At the same time, however, I realize that the current business model does need some changes. It's not working. Look Sony came out last gen with Free online, free multiplayer, etc..... Microsoft had their paywall. Microsoft became profitable very quickly and Sony never recovered. Sony made some headway when PS+ came out and I was a member that first week. Sony, in my opinion made a great business decision and it is paying off. I still believe that Sony will make some changes to their policy.

Look, whether right or wrong, it was going in this direction since online passes were announced. Sony and Microsoft were in the mix. This is the next evolutionary step. I don't like it, but it's the reality. I will be the XBOne to play it's exclusives (especially Forza) and I will buy a PS4(for anything Naughty Dog). I'm not an apologist, just a guy who rolls with the punches and makes a good thing out of a bad one.

Needing changes mean providing something that will bring back customer so that they want what you're selling not fuck the customer base we have in the ass till they leave in disgust.
If you support this BS you deserve what you get, if you have so little self control that you think getting treated like a prisonner by a company that sells you stuffs is ok then more power to you.
But don't try to make flimsy excuses as to why it's perfectly reasonnable.

 

[Principate]

£35 for used fuck, what has Sony said so far if they follow suit I may have to get into PC gaming. I know steam you can't resell games and it's the same thing but I heard the prices are great, is this true for UK steam?

Yeah and Green man gaming has good deals.

 

[Last Hearth]

Wait, something doesn't make sense.

One the one hand it says the used game retailer can sell for whatever price it wants, and then it says activation price is $35.

So which is it, can they sell it for any price, or are all used games set at $35?

 

[RetroStu]

So, used titles at £35 with a 10% margin and high setup costs for mainstream retailers only means that Microsoft can claim that the console "supports" used games, while making it completely uneconomical to offer such a service.

Stench of bullshit rising.

It will be timed for certain imo, 3 months, 6 months or possibly 12 months but i doub't that long. When the timeframe has finished, i bet used games will be ust like they are now.
Apparently about 80% of new game sales are in the first 2 weeks so i bet Microsoft won't care after the first few months.

 

[GQman2121]

Wait, something doesn't make sense.

One the one hand it says the used game retailer can sell for whatever price it wants, and then it says activation price is $35.

So which is it, can they sell it for any price, or are all used games set at $35?

They don't have the whole story. MS probably doesn't know what they'll end up doing either at this point.

 

[Delusibeta]

Has anyone addressed if that $35 (for sake of the argument) goes to the consumer in the form of cash, or is it a credit situation? And if a payment in form of credit is it restricted to that store or restricted to the purchase of other MS games?

£35 (or $50) is the minimum price retailers that sign up to this scheme will be allowed to sell used games, if this rumour is correct.

 

[Meus Renaissance]

Gamestop down 8.5%

and its still going

tip is under $30 by end of trade

also 3.42 million shares traded already FARK

Keep us updated

 

[Principate]

Wait, something doesn't make sense.

One the one hand it says the used game retailer can sell for whatever price it wants, and then it says activation price is $35.

So which is it, can they sell it for any price, or are all used games set at $35?

It's whatever they want, but obviously retailers want to make a profit so it will be higher than the activation. Basically it's a bit disingenuous.

 

[Kyari]

So is this not illegal? Is it not some kind of sketchy monopolisation thing that Microsoft can potentially dictatie who can and can't resell their products?

Also is this not litterally price fixing, an act that is illegal in the UK?

 

[nib95]

Gamestop down 8.5%

and its still going

tip is under $30 by end of trade

also 3.42 million shares traded already FARK

Damn.

 

[Violater]

I just want Sony to announce whether they are jumping on this crazy train so I can know whether to just say to hell with next gen or not.
I usually hand down my games to family friends when I am satisfactorily done with them so now this will not be possible?

 

[syllogism]

Doesn't the EU expressly forbid this

Essentially what MS are doing is artificially limiting the resell market due to their dominant position. You can only resell your copy in the establishments we allow. My right to sell is being limited by MS. As long as no longer have access to the game once I've sold it, then it's nothing to do with MS.

I'm not going to research the topic right now, but if they go for the games as service route (always online, cloud, online verification etc), from their perspective this is them going beyond the current requirements to accommodate consumer. It's a very unsettled area of law, but it's more likely than not for the ECJ and EU not to have a problem with this.

 

[GSG Flash]

So I have to trade/resell my games on MS's terms? (not to mention no more lending/renting games)

Ya... no thanks, this sounds like a shitty deal for customers if you ask me, unless MS/publishers plan to drop the price of new games(fat chance).

 

[RumblingRosco]

So, to summarize, if I buy an XBone game Day 1 and finish it within 3-4 days, paying $60, I can no longer sell it for $50 to some other guy via Craigslist, but instead will be selling to to GameStop for what I'm guessing is less than $30-40?

And, then the developer/publisher and Microsoft get most of that money, while GameStop, who is actually doing the work involved in the transaction, gets 10%?

So in summary: I've been fucked, GameStop has been fucked, MS and the developer/publisher have made more money... until you consider that instead of me having, say, $50 to spend on another game, I'm only going to have $30-40 to spend.

Let's not forget that Gamefly and the like are now fucked too, unless MS works some sort of rental-version policy out with them... which I doubt they'd do.

This is dumb.

Fuck this console.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Yeah, £35 seems mental. I don't remember the last time I paid that price for a new game in the UK, let alone second hand. And those cheap prices aren't because of some manufacturer initiative, it's because of market forces. MS may well officially charge £35, but I don't think they'll get much business...

Incidentally, this sounds like the whole concept of a "used game" will become an irrelevancy. If you never need your disk in your drive after you install it, and functionally a "pre-owned" game is also just installed on your hard drive, the difference is negligible, especially in an era without game manuals or anything like that.

 

[PaulLFC]

35 quid for a used game? I'd laugh if it wasn't so ridiculous. Sony had better not do this.

So, to summarize, if I buy an XBone game Day 1 and finish it within 3-4 days, paying $60, I can no longer sell it for $50 to some other guy via Craigslist, but instead will be selling to to GameStop for what I'm guessing is less than $30-40?

And, then the developer/publisher and Microsoft get most of that money, while GameStop, who is actually doing the work involved in the transaction, gets 10%?

So in summary: I've been fucked, GameStop has been fucked, MS and the developer/publisher have made more money... until you consider that instead of me having, say, $50 to spend on another game, I'm only going to have $30-40 to spend.

Let's not forget that Gamefly and the like are now fucked too, unless MS works some sort of rental-version policy out with them... which I doubt they'd do.

This is dumb.

Fuck this console.

Exactly.

Hopefully, if this is true their plan backfires when they realise people are spending less on XB1 games (or nothing at all, because they decided not to bother with the console). Let's see how much extra money their greed makes them then...

 

[ConfusedCat]

9% down

Gamestop is about to lose 10% of its value in about 30 minutes of trading