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#PS4NoDRM #XboxOneNoDRM || Now do you "Believe?"

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A

Amatsu

Neo Member
MogCakes said:
Believe what you want, but that's not going to stop us from trying. Nothing is stopping this train.



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Thanks very much, MogCakes :)
 
F

famousmortimer

Banned
famousmortimer said:
Ok so here's the deal for me.... I'm working a bunch this weekend to try to get atleast the middle of next week free. I can access the internet from work, mostly on my phone. But only when things are calm (I work with autistic adults... so when they go to sleep it's totally fine for me to go online and just keep an ear out for them, assuming im done with all my paperwork, etc). Anyway, that's tmi... the main point is i'm kinda busy this weekend but not entirely.


So I guess I will open the floodgates now and will probably take all weekend to sift through it and decide who is doing what. So I wouldn't expect a response until Sunday at the earliest. Maybe monday during the day.


What we need is people willing to contact websites and let them know they we are planning on a second push on Wednesday at a time we will figure out today or tomorrow. You will need to go to the website to find the contact email/page.... but from there it's easy. Basically you will send an email like (let's pretend it's kotaku).


Hi Kotaku!

This is (your name) from the #PS4NoDRM campaign and we are ramping up for a second and final push on Wednesday, June 5th starting at __ GMT (and then maybe list the time for them if you know the country of the site's origin).

The movement so far has over 175+ media mentions in 20 different languages which has been incredibly helpful to us. We are grateful for the articles you did specifically and were hoping you could help us shine a light on this one final time.

If you have any further questions check out (OP Link) and (site link) or email me at (your email). And if you decide not to cover it again we still are really appreciative of the support you've given us so far.

Thanks,

Yourname




And then if they have questions for you that you know the answer to, answer them. If you don't refer them to me or baller (and maybe others, still hashing that out). I will give you our email addresses when letting you know which sites you will be responsible for.

If a ton of people decide to volunteer it will be really quick for everyone. Each site will take like 5 minutes tops... so if we can get it down to like 5 or less sites per person we're asking for less than a half hour of your time. We will start with the sites that have already covered it and if we have the manpower we will then move onto sites that haven't.


If you're lurking and would like to help, message me on twitter. If you're on the forum, PM me.



As each new page is created in this thread if i'm not around.... if someone could quote this just to get it on the current page I would be most appreciative.
Click to expand...


For a new page. Still need volunteers!
 
G

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
So I've been asked to respin the open letter I wrote for PlayStation, to something targeting Xbox, for another site that will accompany the June 5th push.

Here is a first draft that I would welcome feedback on:

Dear Microsoft,

c.c. Electronic Arts, Activision, Ubisoft et al

You may be wondering what the above hashtags mean.

Simply put, they are asking you to keep things on Xbox One as they are on Xbox 360, when it comes to physical disc rights and second hand discs.

After your announcement of Xbox One, multiple high level Microsoft executives gave information in interviews around the control of physical discs. This information ignited a firestorm of controversy. Though your PR claimed after the fact that certain things were unconfirmed, the comments provided by these executives carried certain consistent information. Namely:

1) That users would be unable to lend Xbox One discs to one another, without also lending their account details

2) That in the absence of lending account details, a borrowing user would be unable to play the game, and be prompted to purchase the game separately from Microsoft

3) That ‘permission’ to use a game would be granted on an ongoing periodic basis using internet checks

4) That transfer of game ownership would be constrained to approved retail partners participating in an unspecified system, or to a Microsoft network service that would allow users to sell game licenses to one another.

Many arguments are made against second hand games, and we respect the concern publishers often have about lost revenue. However, with the above context in place, we’d like to offer some points to consider.

1) A system that sees Microsoft and approved retail partners collaborate to restrict trade of second-hand discs to select channels, at the expense of consumers’ ability to individually lend or trade discs, is blatantly anti-consumer. It goes against decades of precedent in how physical game media work and works against the consumer on a number of fronts in service of every other stakeholder.

2) This same system will also break the idea of a consumer’s permanent ownership of a game, in favour of a system that sees a user’s ‘permission’ to play a game periodically refreshed. This is another negative interference with consumer expectations over how a physical disc behaves.

3) Asides from the concept of ownership, the ongoing usage of a game becomes subject to points of failure (in network infrastructure). The requirement for an ongoing internet connection raises barriers to usage of your console that the consumer may not always be in control of.

4) A network service for the trading of game licenses between users, while welcome as an option, would not be an adequate replacement for the general freedom consumers enjoy in the control of their game discs today.

5) Please bear in mind the very strong consumer psychology of loss aversion in considering the above points. Applying digital rules to physical discs after the fact won’t work. You may be thinking ‘well, you can’t buy second hand on Steam or iOS, and they do fine!’ - but the expectations of digital and physical are completely different.

6) If physical distribution is entering its twilight years, let it fade gracefully, and let consumers gravitate toward digital models voluntarily and naturally. Don’t change the physical ecosystem at this late point in the game.

7) Consoles have more competition now than ever before. This is not the time to rock the boat against consumer control of discs. There are many of us who only buy new games and never resell, and we worry about the effect of policies like this on the popularity of console gaming, and thus its longer term viability.

8) Your handling of this opportunity to date has confused and alienated many potential consumers. It has opened opportunities for competitors. However, Microsoft still has a chance to redeem the situation. You can win these consumers back with a clear and unambiguous policy that leaves physical discs as they are.

Thanks for listening!
Click to expand...

It's not necessarily final. Corrections or suggestions welcome. Are the points reasonable? Is there anything I'm missing that should be said? Is there anything that should be removed?
 
10101

10101

Gold Member
Looks good Gofreak, do you think there should be a point about how used games can be used for new sales? I mean there is also the chance that doing this could hurt their bottom line.

Thoughts?
 
K

Kane1345

Member
famousmortimer said:
Second order of business. I need a task force to try to contact all of the other movements like this one. Talk to folks on reddit, talk to the guy running the twitter account, talk to various videogame forums, talk to the dude running the facebook page... really any group of gamers that have taken to this but haven't necessarily been locked into here. Just to ask if they want to coordinate on this date and time.
Click to expand...

I talked to #PS4noDRM ‏ @VirtuaMe and he's changed his header to reflect the date and told his 3500 or so followers what's happening. He's gonna tweet alot more nearer the time as well. I'll try and get in contact with the facebook guy today as well if that's ok
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
Looks like June 5 will be a big day, hope famousmortimer can line up all the troops and get a real big march on this thing
 
K

Kane1345

Member
gofreak said:
So I've been asked to respin the open letter I wrote for PlayStation, to something targeting Xbox, for another site that will accompany the June 5th push.

Here is a first draft that I would welcome feedback on:



It's not necessarily final. Corrections or suggestions welcome. Are the points reasonable? Is there anything I'm missing that should be said? Is there anything that should be removed?
Click to expand...

Very on point and well written
 
SilentFlyer

SilentFlyer

Member
gofreak said:
It's not necessarily final. Corrections or suggestions welcome. Are the points reasonable? Is there anything I'm missing that should be said? Is there anything that should be removed?
Click to expand...

That is very to the point. so far so good. I've also suggested some option to both, MSony, as to how they can encourage gamers to buy new games without using DRM system. Any feedback is welcome.

I think the best way to counter used game is not counter but rather change the norm or thinking of gamers. They should not implement any DRM system but they need to do is:

Include some kind of level bar like Trophy Level we currently have on PS3. Call it Loyalty Level. The level will increase as gamer play more new games and will decrease when plays used game. Upon reaching a certain level, gamer should be awarded something motivating that will keep him/her buy and play new games, for instance, a new game of his or her choice or $10 back or anything that is motivating. Award will vary with every used game he/she plays.

Plus, when a player playing used game, a status should indicate it, for instance, XX is playing XXXXX (U) or Used or CD Icon in full black or anything which tells a player is playing used game. (I don't know about you guys but I certainly don't like any such indication beside my name)

Again this is just my opinion. This might encourage gamers to buy new games. Even, for instance, 2 out of 10 gamers starts buying new games, it would be good result rather loosing all 10 gamers.
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K

Krusenstern

Banned
Ninja Scooter said:
not kissing ass here but can I just say that I was wrong about the scope of this thing and how much impact it could have. Props to you guys who stuck with it.
Click to expand...

Quite a few are surprised what you can achieve if you don't sit on your hands and get active. It's not to late to join on June 5th if you like.
 
A

ari

Banned
You guys don't think exploding twitter accounts is too much? Its spamming the shit out of these accounts to hell guys. You guys might think this is important but its...its just really, really isn't. I will feel sorry for you guys when Sony do have a form of DRM.
 
Eliciel

Eliciel

Member
ari said:
You guys don't think exploding twitter accounts is too much? Its spamming the shit out of these accounts to hell guys. You guys might think this is important but its...its just really, really isn't. I will feel sorry for you guys when Sony do have a form of DRM.
Click to expand...

I already changed my avatar on my twitter account.
 
A

ari

Banned
voady said:
I already changed my avatar on my twitter account.
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OK? Are you in charge of the ps4 hardware? From my understanding anyway, ps4 won't have DRM....for now.

Brawly Likes to Brawl said:
lol first we're not doing enough, now we're doing "too much".
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I was always on the "too much/overreacting/get a life side" but OK.I'm not knocking, its awesome what the gaming community is doing about these policies but this will hardly change minds with spam. We need something bigger.

A boycott of both consoles from neogaf and other gaming communities would get notice. 4chan, reddit, ign boards, all of those would make headlines.
 
B

Brawly Likes to Brawl

Member
ari said:
You guys don't think exploding twitter accounts is too much? Its spamming the shit out of these accounts to hell guys. You guys might think this is important but its...its just really, really isn't. I will feel sorry for you guys when Sony do have a form of DRM.
Click to expand...

lol first we're not doing enough, now we're doing "too much".
 
B

Brawly Likes to Brawl

Member
ari said:
A boycott of both consoles from neogaf and other gaming communities would get notice. 4chan, reddit, ign boards, all of those would make headlines.
Click to expand...

This campaign is already making headlines. And people are already swearing not to buy any either console if they go through with the DRM. The whole idea here is draw attention to this issue and make an appeal so we might not have to go through the trouble of boycotting both consoles at all. MS seems like a lost cause at this point, but what kicked off this campaign was Sony showing signs of wavering.
 
ItalianJoe83

ItalianJoe83

Member
Krusenstern said:
For anyone interested, here are the templates:
Click to expand...
Thank you for posting this: my avatar appear now in perfect "TeamReal vs TeamCG style" but with no Mogrenish bandages! XD

I hope the Microsoft will remove those features as soon as possible and i pray Sony to don't follow them in this "minefield" for any reasons
 
Eliciel

Eliciel

Member
ari said:
OK? Are you in charge of the ps4 hardware? From my understanding anyway, ps4 won't have DRM....for now.
Click to expand...

I changed it 5 days ago already. In my mind all this protest and campaign against DRM is a statement that doesn't stop with this whole thing. It's a statement to everyone involved in gaming. I won't be getting a PS4 nor a XBone if there will be DRM and No used games whatsoever on it. Without this option the console option dies for me and for a lot of my friends, too. This is completely gamechanging for me. I'm 26 years old and I'm in complete control of my actions and my believes. I won't support DRM as well as I didn't support Online passes and what have you moves to make more money. No used games is a K.O. criteria for my personal taste.

That's why I have already changed my avatar on all social media 5 days ago. Because I believe this isn't right and as far as I'm concerned it's very important to me. If you think that this is premature or geek-ish, I welcome you to join the show on 6th of July and I embrace you to not buying this console if it gets DRM and NoUsedGames.
 
M

Mr Swine

Banned
Do you guys really think that MS and Sony care about a few forums, twitter feeds and Facebook pages are saying about no drm? I mean there are other people that are going to but the consoles no matter what? I don't think either that people will stop playing games if this goes through or am I wrong?
 
Eliciel

Eliciel

Member
Mr Swine said:
Do you guys really think that MS and Sony care about a few forums, twitter feeds and Facebook pages are saying about no drm? I mean there are other people that are going to but the consoles no matter what? I don't think either that people will stop playing games if this goes through or am I wrong?
Click to expand...

Do you really think that with this mindset anything would have changed in history? Do you really think that this mindset can take control of or at least influence anything, at all? If you get beaten down you need to retaliate and fight. That's how life works in general. You can't just stand there and say: "Hey nothing will change, dude. Just go home and eat some bacon with eggs"

Here's something biblical:
"And Moses lifted up his hand, and with his rod he smote the rock twice: and the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their beasts also." - The Holy Bible Chapter 20 Verse 11

metaphorically spokenthis means: If you seem to die of thirst clench your fist struck a stone with all your force and hope and pray to god that water will eventually start to flow out of it.


Mindset is not about facts it's about believing. It's about hope. In the end that's all what NeoGaf is about...believing.
 
K

Kung Fu Grip

Banned
Mr Swine said:
Do you guys really think that MS and Sony care about a few forums, twitter feeds and Facebook pages are saying about no drm? I mean there are other people that are going to but the consoles no matter what? I don't think either that people will stop playing games if this goes through or am I wrong?
Click to expand...

Going by a few comments from people from Sony, yes, they do care about us.
 
A

ari

Banned
voady said:
Do you really think that with this mindset anything would have changed in history? Do you really think that this mindset can take control or at least influence anything, at all? If you get beaten down you need to retaliate and fight.

Here's something biblical:
"And Moses lifted up his hand, and with his rod he smote the rock twice: and the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their beasts also." - The Holy Bible Chapter 20 Verse 11

metaphorically spokenthis means: If you seem to die of thirst clench your fist struck a stone with all your force and hope and pray to god that water will eventually start to flow out of it.


Mindset is not about facts it's about believing. It's about hope. In the end that's all what NeoGaf is about...believing.
Click to expand...
Drama all over the place.
 
Eliciel

Eliciel

Member
ari said:
Drama all over the place.
Click to expand...

Life's a drama, life's a battlefield, life's a stage and you are in the main role every day and need money, so badly.

But I know from where you're coming and it's all right with me. I just tried to show you how I feel. It's all fine.
 
M

MasLegio

Banned
Mr Swine said:
Do you guys really think that MS and Sony care about a few forums, twitter feeds and Facebook pages are saying about no drm? I mean there are other people that are going to but the consoles no matter what? I don't think either that people will stop playing games if this goes through or am I wrong?
Click to expand...

Do they care about early adopters and how they affect future sales?
Yes

How many of us are early adopters?
All of us (almost)


The loss of an early adopter costs much more than the loss of a later adopter. A lost early adopter is a lost marketing channel to whoever is in that persons social sphere over time. The more early adopters you have the faster the potential growth for your product.
 
Z

Zarrastro

Member
Why has this thread become suddenly so... negative? It is clear that SONY are listening to the campaign. Why all this pessimistic posts now?
 
C

Carl

Member
Did anyone make an eye-catching graphic or anything that we can spread around twitter to alert everyone of when phase 2 is starting? :)
 
C

Carl

Member
Kane1345 said:
Was there going to be a video as well to go with the campaign?
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I have no idea!

Might be a good idea to start spread it tomorrow/Monday so people have plenty of notice of what's happening. Thought an eye-catching graphic would be a good idea as it helps information sink in easier :p
 
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