Support NeoGAF

[Mung]

The point for many I think is that, opposed to what many of us where believing, this puts ps4 and xbone in almost equal footing. The won't be, it appears, a very significant gap at all. This changes things for many. It looks like in terms of technology is going to be a similar situation to the current gen.

Ah yes, because these means the GPU is now the same and RAM bandwidth doesn't matter anymore. Of course, that's presuming that this rumour is even true.

 

[GeoramA]

1. They're wrong. They should get better sources, or at least attempt a better analysis.

2. OS matters are a bit more complicated than how this is being portrayed.

3. I clearly have a lot to learn before becoming a master troll.

4. It's Friday. My mobile is getting too much of a workout for a Friday.

Here's the deal...somewhat. From a dev at one of the biggest in the industry. Just a messenger here.

Dev still a little cagey to give out 100% concrete numbers unfortunately like I was previously told, so I apologize ahead of time that they're not as detailed, but these are supposed to be the closest to detailed info I get on the OS footprint:

-At most, the OS uses 1.5GB, with a good amount of that helping the HD recording feature and on the fly switching/ multi tasking
-4.5GB is indeed about what's available for devs at present.
-1GB is set aside for futureproofing OS operations down the line.
-1GB for developer reserve, should they need it

And finally as an important point, I'm being told the faster RAM in the PS4 does in fact make a huge difference.

Pre-order uncancelled.

 

[SniperHunter]

4.5 GB at the moment...

that's even lower than Xbox One's max available memory...this Sony OS sounds like a disaster and it looks ugly as sin

 

[QaaQer]

Because it's not a bombshell.

MS has been pretty upfront about what their console is in terms of functionality and how much of the resources go to non-gaming stuff.

 

[VXLbeast]

This thread makes me embarrassed to be apart of Neogaf.

 

[Azull]

Agreed. It no different than people confirming the Xbox One is using 3gb of RAM for OS, when that has not been confirmed by MS either.

Except the 3gb of RAM for the OS on the xbone has been confirmed...

 

[coma1138]

Saving the extra RAM in case they need to copy more ideas from MS down the line.

 

[ShadyJ]

The PS3 had 512 MB so that's still plenty to play with.

Yep my thinking entirely .

 

[glenn8]

But Witness already uses 5gb and its indie.

 

[cyberheater]

Ok... extra final post.


They hadn't said. It was too early. We could guestimate... probably 1gb, maybe 1.5gb. But it wasn't set in stone. It still isn't.

Okay. Thanks for taking the time out to answer my question.

 

[shinobi602]

Here's the deal...somewhat. From a dev at one of the biggest in the industry. Just a messenger here.

Dev still a little cagey to give out 100% concrete numbers unfortunately like I was previously told, so I apologize ahead of time that they're not as detailed, but these are supposed to be the closest to detailed info I get on the OS footprint:

-At most, the OS uses 1.5GB, with a good amount of that helping the HD recording feature and on the fly switching/ multi tasking
-4.5GB is indeed about what's available for devs at present.
-1GB is set aside for futureproofing OS operations down the line.
-1GB for developer reserve, should they need it

And finally as an important point, I'm being told the faster RAM in the PS4 does in fact make a huge difference.

 

[killer rin]

Still waiting for a developer to say that 5.5Gb of RAM is not enough...or even for Sony to confirm this

If its in the SDK Docs, then its confirmed because Sony would have put it there. The question is if it is actually in the SDK Docs.

 

[Wishmaster92]

1. They're wrong. They should get better sources, or at least attempt a better analysis.

2. OS matters are a bit more complicated than how this is being portrayed.

3. I clearly have a lot to learn before becoming a master troll.

4. It's Friday. My mobile is getting too much of a workout for a Friday.

Great post! Here, have a RAM.

 

[DeadlyVirus]

MS has been pretty upfront about what their console is in terms of functionality and how much of the resources go to non-gaming stuff.

Until someone takes a closer look, it's anybody's guess...They could say that their target is 3GB, but end up using 4GB for the OS

 

[kitch9]

To all the people disappointed please explain how 4.5 or 5.5 gigs of ram for video games is a bad thing?

They don't know, it just sounds bad man.

 

[Lambda Pie]

Damn Verendus is putting it ALL on the line. If he misfires here he probably will have his certified insider status revoked lol

dangerous game to play unless he knows the real number.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

That is excactly what I was thinking. So basically after they knew that XboxOne would go for 8 GB, they HAD to follow suit in order to match up.

So the "the 8 GB of Ram was only to please developers, because "WE are a PURE gaming machine"" seems to be a PR spin after all.

This is false beyond reprieve.

 

[Heretic]

Oh....
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=59243973&postcount=475

Nice job but it's all guesswork unless you have proof. This doesn't sound right.

 

[quest]

To all the people disappointed please explain how 4.5 or 5.5 gigs of ram for video games is a bad thing?

Because I am paying 399.99 for 8gigs and to have almost half wasted on features I don't want is not good. I don't see it any different than MS forcing Kinect on gamers. There is nothing but bloat that could explain that much ram usage by the OS/features. I think most of us could understand starting at 2gigs for that stuff and moving it down but 3.5 is mind boggling. That is as more ram than a full fledged OS desktop uses.

 

[Mung]

Here's the deal...somewhat. From a dev at one of the biggest in the industry. Just a messenger here.

Dev still a little cagey to give out 100% concrete numbers unfortunately like I was previously told, but these are supposed to be the closest to detailed info on the OS footprint:

-At most, the OS uses 1.5GB, with a good amount of that helping the HD recording feature and on the fly switching/ multi tasking
-4.5GB is indeed about what's available for devs at present.
-1GB is set aside for futureproofing OS operations down the line.
-1GB for developer reserve, should they need it

And finally as an important point, I'm being told the faster RAM in the PS4 does in fact make a huge difference.

BOOM

 

[Jarmel]

Pretty much. It would be a horribly inefficient and wasteful move to add 4GB of expensive ram, run around proclaiming you are the machine for gamers, by gamers and how you're listening to developers by the addition of that RAM and then block of 88% of it and give developers maybe an extra gig of it to play around with over what they had before while using the rest of it for some undisclosed OS features.

The 3.5 number makes no sense given the One was designed from the FLOOR UP to be a general purpose multimedia box, is running 3 OSs and has integrated Kinect functionality while only using 3. Also, why wouldn't you design the system to have a mixture of DDR3 and GDDR5 if we were going to use so much for the OS. It makes no kind of sense to add 4 GB of relatively expensive GDDR5 for the bloating of the OS. I find the 3.5 number hard to believe given the announcement was made BEFORE the revealing of the One and that the One would be a general purpose multimedia box... so it couldn't have been added as a reaction for OS functionality.

The fact that people are saying 4.5 is 'fine' and a ton of RAM for game development just goes to show you how utterly ridiculous it is that the OS is blocking off so much of it. If 4.5 is fine for highly advanced next generation games, then what could possibly be running in the background to necessitate 3.5 of it being reserved? 4.5 might be 'fine' for now, but it won't be in the future. If Sony is blocking off so much RAM, they need to be criticized even harsher than Microsoft for going on about being the gamer's console and then actually blocking off MORE RAM for no apparent reason.

Yep, I agree.

 

[Salaadin]

1. They're wrong. They should get better sources, or at least attempt a better analysis.

2. OS matters are a bit more complicated than how this is being portrayed.

3. I clearly have a lot to learn before becoming a master troll.

4. It's Friday. My mobile is getting too much of a workout for a Friday.

Oh jeez. Here we go.

This has been a great 24 hours on gaf. I fucking love this place.

 

[QaaQer]

Here's the deal...somewhat. From a dev at one of the biggest in the industry. Just a messenger here.

Dev still a little cagey to give out 100% concrete numbers unfortunately like I was previously told, so I apologize ahead of time that they're not as detailed, but these are supposed to be the closest to detailed info I get on the OS footprint:

-At most, the OS uses 1.5GB, with a good amount of that helping the HD recording feature and on the fly switching/ multi tasking
-4.5GB is indeed about what's available for devs at present.
-1GB is set aside for futureproofing OS operations down the line.
-1GB for developer reserve, should they need it

And finally as an important point, I'm being told the faster RAM in the PS4 does in fact make a huge difference.

cheers.

 

[dragonfart28]

Sony surprised developers during the PS4 reveal in February by announcing that the console would use 8GB of memory after all indications were that it would use only 4GB. At first glance, it appears that the the greatest benefit of the memory increase is to the OS and app capabilities of the PS4 and not necessarily games.

Report: PS4 uses 3.5 GB of memory of system OS, puts it on par with Xbox One

 

[la flama blanca]

Here's the deal...somewhat. From a dev at one of the biggest in the industry. Just a messenger here.

Dev still a little cagey to give out 100% concrete numbers unfortunately like I was previously told, but these are supposed to be the closest to detailed info on the OS footprint:

-At most, the OS uses 1.5GB, with a good amount of that helping the HD recording feature and on the fly switching/ multi tasking
-4.5GB is indeed about what's available for devs at present.
-1GB is set aside for futureproofing OS operations down the line.
-1GB for developer reserve, should they need it

And finally as an important point, I'm being told the faster RAM in the PS4 does in fact make a huge difference.

Thanks Shinobi. So it seems that it is a bit different from how MS has allocated their ram. Sounds very promising, can't wait for a fast OS!

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

I don't think you understand how all of this works, ToS. Day 1 devs will not have the same pipeline as day 1000 devs. How the box ships on day one will not matter in the slightest. The firmware will update what's available to developers... so a system bought on day one will have the same power/memorypool/etc as a system bought 5 years from now. Dev kits get more powerful throughout the generation - every gen, especially with the advent of upgradeable firmware. Let's say that Sony is allowing devs 5gb of ram at launch. And then come release of Infamous 3 they decide that they can free up an extra 1gb because they have a few months worth of OS data and can relax their pool a bit. They put the firmware update online and on the disc (for offline systems...) and everything works just fine. I don't really understand what you mean by "lowest common denominator." All systems are identical and when things get opened up they will for all systems.

Ok, assuming im wrong and this is all true, the same can be applied by Microsoft.

Yes, the PS4 has faster ram but the differences arent doing to be as noticeable as they may have been previously.

Therefore the value of the console has lowered. I just cant buy into the "wait and see" approach.

When PS4 actually has titles that significantly outclass the X1, then ill buy one. But as of now, I dont buy on "potential". the last console I followed that princple with was a vita. Never again.

 

[ChronotriggerJM]

lol, yeah, now the bloated OS MS got criticized for is now the norm. Watching the flow of opinions on gaf is pretty cool.

Well if the rumors are true it's even more ridiculous for Sony than it is MS. Why on gods green earth would you throw 3.5 gigs of GDDR5 at a FreeBSD OS. It's like nuking an anthill.

 

[CrisKre]

Ah yes, because these means the GPU is now the same and RAM bandwidth doesn't matter anymore. Of course, that's presuming that this rumour is even true.

Of course it matters. Ps3 is also, on paper, more powerful than 360. Trust me, I'm not happy with Microsoft. But this info does point to both machines being a bit closer in features and performance than many of us anticipated.

 

[kevm3]

Because why the fuck not? Nobody is going to use that much ram right now.

Jonathan Blow said he's already using 5GB and wants to use more and he's an indie developer. We can get into this whole conversation of how inefficient he is and some other nonsense, but it's best not to treat developers like kids and tell them what they are and aren't going to be using and the best time for them to be using it, especially when you're going around touting how developer centric and developer friendly you are. That is if these reports are true, which I doubt.

 

[Neuromancer]

I only just now got Dennis' ram/lamb picture. Well done.

 

[BigDug13]

Here's the way I see it. They're telling devs to keep it under 5.5 and to possibly try to keep it below 4.5GB for now. That gives them room to play with the OS and figure out what they're going to do with it, how streamlined they'll make it, etc. launch games don't need that much anyway. After their OS team figures out everything they want to do and how much they'll need, they'll adjust reserved requirements and post launch titles will be able to use more. Since launch devs have been working off 4GB total ram with possibly 1 reserved up till the reveal, they're probably already working within the reserved specs anyway.

 

[cLOUDo]

that is the guy from Luther?
xD



the PS4 has more SO's RAM that my Notebook

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Here's the deal...somewhat. From a dev at one of the biggest in the industry. Just a messenger here.

Dev still a little cagey to give out 100% concrete numbers unfortunately like I was previously told, so I apologize ahead of time that they're not as detailed, but these are supposed to be the closest to detailed info I get on the OS footprint:

-At most, the OS uses 1.5GB, with a good amount of that helping the HD recording feature and on the fly switching/ multi tasking
-4.5GB is indeed about what's available for devs at present.
-1GB is set aside for futureproofing OS operations down the line.
-1GB for developer reserve, should they need it

And finally as an important point, I'm being told the faster RAM in the PS4 does in fact make a huge difference.

 

[xaosslug]

Here's the deal...somewhat. From a dev at one of the biggest in the industry. Just a messenger here.

Dev still a little cagey to give out 100% concrete numbers unfortunately like I was previously told, so I apologize ahead of time that they're not as detailed, but these are supposed to be the closest to detailed info I get on the OS footprint:

-At most, the OS uses 1.5GB, with a good amount of that helping the HD recording feature and on the fly switching/ multi tasking
-4.5GB is indeed about what's available for devs at present.
-1GB is set aside for futureproofing OS operations down the line.
-1GB for developer reserve, should they need it

And finally as an important point, I'm being told the faster RAM in the PS4 does in fact make a huge difference.

welp...

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

Here's the deal...somewhat. From a dev at one of the biggest in the industry. Just a messenger here.

Dev still a little cagey to give out 100% concrete numbers unfortunately like I was previously told, so I apologize ahead of time that they're not as detailed, but these are supposed to be the closest to detailed info I get on the OS footprint:

-At most, the OS uses 1.5GB, with a good amount of that helping the HD recording feature and on the fly switching/ multi tasking
-4.5GB is indeed about what's available for devs at present.
-1GB is set aside for futureproofing OS operations down the line.
-1GB for developer reserve, should they need it

And finally as an important point, I'm being told the faster RAM in the PS4 does in fact make a huge difference.

Mortimer, Thuway, Verendus, and now this. If you still think this is a problem there's no helping you.

 

[Angelus Errare]

And everyone's world comes crumbling down.

 

[Odrion]

Here's the deal...somewhat. From a dev at one of the biggest in the industry. Just a messenger here.

Dev still a little cagey to give out 100% concrete numbers unfortunately like I was previously told, so I apologize ahead of time that they're not as detailed, but these are supposed to be the closest to detailed info I get on the OS footprint:

-At most, the OS uses 1.5GB, with a good amount of that helping the HD recording feature and on the fly switching/ multi tasking
-4.5GB is indeed about what's available for devs at present.
-1GB is set aside for futureproofing OS operations down the line.
-1GB for developer reserve, should they need it

And finally as an important point, I'm being told the faster RAM in the PS4 does in fact make a huge difference.

What makes that 1gb of "reserve" different from the 4.5gb? Why isn't it just 5.5gb?

 

[mrklaw]

Here's the deal...somewhat. From a dev at one of the biggest in the industry. Just a messenger here.

Dev still a little cagey to give out 100% concrete numbers unfortunately like I was previously told, but these are supposed to be the closest to detailed info on the OS footprint:

-At most, the OS uses 1.5GB, with a good amount of that helping the HD recording feature and on the fly switching/ multi tasking
-4.5GB is indeed about what's available for devs at present.
-1GB is set aside for futureproofing OS operations down the line.
-1GB for developer reserve, should they need it

And finally as an important point, I'm being told the faster RAM in the PS4 does in fact make a huge difference.

That suggests the OS reserves 2.5GB,but is only currently using 1.5GB?

That other 1Gb is odd. 'Should they need it' - is it available or not, why the odd wording?


Also curious why so much for helping the HD recording. If they're recording the 15 minute buffer to ram then that seems inefficient, DVRs record to HDD with no problem

 

[Paches]

Here's the deal...somewhat. From a dev at one of the biggest in the industry. Just a messenger here.

Dev still a little cagey to give out 100% concrete numbers unfortunately like I was previously told, so I apologize ahead of time that they're not as detailed, but these are supposed to be the closest to detailed info I get on the OS footprint:

-At most, the OS uses 1.5GB, with a good amount of that helping the HD recording feature and on the fly switching/ multi tasking
-4.5GB is indeed about what's available for devs at present.
-1GB is set aside for futureproofing OS operations down the line.
-1GB for developer reserve, should they need it

And finally as an important point, I'm being told the faster RAM in the PS4 does in fact make a huge difference.

It is almost as if everything famousmortimer believed to be true, was.

 

[FunkyPajamas]

Here's the deal...somewhat. From a dev at one of the biggest in the industry. Just a messenger here.

Niiiiiice. Thanks for sharing.

 

[SlowRevolution]

Here's the deal...somewhat. From a dev at one of the biggest in the industry. Just a messenger here.

Dev still a little cagey to give out 100% concrete numbers unfortunately like I was previously told, so I apologize ahead of time that they're not as detailed, but these are supposed to be the closest to detailed info I get on the OS footprint:

-At most, the OS uses 1.5GB, with a good amount of that helping the HD recording feature and on the fly switching/ multi tasking
-4.5GB is indeed about what's available for devs at present.
-1GB is set aside for futureproofing OS operations down the line.
-1GB for developer reserve, should they need it

And finally as an important point, I'm being told the faster RAM in the PS4 does in fact make a huge difference.

thanks for the info. sounds pretty reasonable.

 

[Audible Phonetics]

Here's the deal...somewhat. From a dev at one of the biggest in the industry. Just a messenger here.

Dev still a little cagey to give out 100% concrete numbers unfortunately like I was previously told, so I apologize ahead of time that they're not as detailed, but these are supposed to be the closest to detailed info I get on the OS footprint:

-At most, the OS uses 1.5GB, with a good amount of that helping the HD recording feature and on the fly switching/ multi tasking
-4.5GB is indeed about what's available for devs at present.
-1GB is set aside for futureproofing OS operations down the line.
-1GB for developer reserve, should they need it

And finally as an important point, I'm being told the faster RAM in the PS4 does in fact make a huge difference.

This pretty much should fall inline with everyones expectations if they think logically about it.

 

[140.85]

Here's the deal...somewhat. From a dev at one of the biggest in the industry. Just a messenger here.

Dev still a little cagey to give out 100% concrete numbers unfortunately like I was previously told, so I apologize ahead of time that they're not as detailed, but these are supposed to be the closest to detailed info I get on the OS footprint:

-At most, the OS uses 1.5GB, with a good amount of that helping the HD recording feature and on the fly switching/ multi tasking
-4.5GB is indeed about what's available for devs at present.
-1GB is set aside for futureproofing OS operations down the line.
-1GB for developer reserve, should they need it

And finally as an important point, I'm being told the faster RAM in the PS4 does in fact make a huge difference.

This actually seems very smart to me if true. Keep it flexible and readjust the balance accordingly down the line.

And for the record I have never weighed in on the XB1 OS footprint so if you're a MS fan and you want to see my post as hypocrisy feel free to search my post history.

 

[KaiserBecks]

This is false beyond reprieve.

This would sound so much more convincing if you made an effort in telling him why.

 

[ironchair]

Thats now how an OS works. Just because 3.5GB is reserved doesnt mean the OS is using 3.5GB AT ALL TIMEs. Same on Xbone. In the case of xbox when you are multitasking the size used grow. the reserved amount is the just the max that it can grow to that is ALL.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[TheRealTalker]

I came and only saw

-stay classy Gaf... stay classy

 

[CoG]

Of course it matters. Ps3 is also, on paper, more powerful than 360. Trust me, I'm not happy with Microsoft. But this info does point to both machines being a bit closer in features and performance than many of us anticipated.

It's not more powerful "on paper" it's more powerful, period. The DF comparison threads are going to be epic this gen.

 

[BobLoblaw]

Do you even know what RAM is?

Yes, Mr. Horse. I do. Next question.

 

[shinobi602]

What makes that 1gb of "reserve" different from the 4.5gb? Why isn't it just 5.5gb?

That suggests the OS reserves 2.5GB,but is only currently using 1.5GB?

That other 1Gb is odd. 'Should they need it' - is it available or not, why the odd wording?

I'm actually curious on that wording too, so I'm asking about it.

 

[ironcreed]

Here's the deal...somewhat. From a dev at one of the biggest in the industry. Just a messenger here.

Dev still a little cagey to give out 100% concrete numbers unfortunately like I was previously told, so I apologize ahead of time that they're not as detailed, but these are supposed to be the closest to detailed info I get on the OS footprint:

-At most, the OS uses 1.5GB, with a good amount of that helping the HD recording feature and on the fly switching/ multi tasking
-4.5GB is indeed about what's available for devs at present.
-1GB is set aside for futureproofing OS operations down the line.
-1GB for developer reserve, should they need it

And finally as an important point, I'm being told the faster RAM in the PS4 does in fact make a huge difference.

So... pretty much confirmed then. Still, 5.5GB of GDDR5 should be plenty to work with for years.