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[Piggus]

I swear some people on GAF overreact so stupidly.

Seriously. I wonder how many of them actually know how RAM even works? It's basically "I have no idea what any of this means BUT I HATE IT! Because reasons."

It's unfortunate that the OS uses that much memory but it's not the end of the fucking world. Christ. The hardware advantage over the Xbone is still pretty much just as big as before and by the time devs start to actually utilize all that memory effectively, Sony will likely have reduced the memory footprint of the OS.

This isn't going to amount to anything yet DUUURRR PRE-ORDER CANCELLED

 

[DPJ]

Not reaaaally disagreeing with you- but really, the gap is minimal/a matter of preference at this point. Only gap is the price.

Nope, difference is still significant. Slight (possible) reduction in Ram available for games doesn't negate the fact it's still significantly faster Ram and there is still more of it available for games than the DDR3 on Xbone. To say nothing of the much more powerful GPU as well.

There is still a notable gap between these two machines spec wise.

 

[Devilinthiscity]

Wow..left the thread for a while. Has sony confirmed or denied said ram rumor yet?

 

[Bigmac1910]

Checking a walkthrough or a video of that particular portion of the game where you're stuck. Video Chatting with friends in a picture-in-picture window while you play. Play a mini-game and switch instantly back and forth while you wait in a multiplayer lobby for some friends to join your party. And some multitasks could be running on the background (an email client, patch downloads from games in your library or firmware updates, etc).

I just don't care about all that, that's not how I play games. Mostly playing single player, that could change, but I doubt it.

 

[winstano]

I'm confused. If this is the OS requirement, how the hell did the initial spec of 4GB GDDR5 even begin to accommodate this?! Are they saying that they were going to give devs access to 512MB for games?!

Something's off with this, I really don't think this is all that accurate...

 

[bronzeP]

Just clicked this thread and SHIT 87 pages

your rectum must be very tough

 

[uncledonnie]

People were getting on Microsoft for blocking up so much resources, including RAM, for non-gaming features and rightfully so, and were using the 7GB of GDDR5 for games as a point against the One, but now it comes out that Sony is actually blocking off MORE RAM for no real reason... and now the rallying cry is 4 GB is enough? If 4 GB was enough, then why was that ever being used as an advantage in PS4's favor if it just merely stockpiled a resource developers would never use? Put in less RAM and drop the price even further.

Sony deserves to be criticized for this all about games stance. Microsoft is actually using those resources for things like DVR, kinect (voice and motion navigation/interaction), etc. What is Sony's excuse for using MORE resources? It's all about the games, but Sony is potentially blocking off MORE resources but nothing to show for it all in the name of this supposed 'feature parity.' Well if it's about 'feature parity', then Sony is already behind. We accepted the PS4 not having DVR/camera integration due to supposedly more of these resources being allocated to games when that isn't the case. Sony better toss in DVR and match it feature for feature if they are going to lock up just as much resources for the OS as the One.

This may be overstating things a bit, but I do agree that Sony needs to come with the OS goods now. I think it's fair to expect similar snap/multitasking if they are reserving that much memory.

 

[apana]

Yes. 100%.

That's what they did with the PS3. This is the launch allocation. They'll optimize it so that games get more RAM as the generation proceeds.

Yeah but when and how much?

 

[reptilescorpio]

Wow this thread is entertaining.

On topic though, what happened to the quotes from Sony that Eurogamer said were going to be included? I thought they held back on the article because Sony had something to say?

Odd that they wouldn't even note that Sony decided not to comment.

 

[slade]

That OS better be fast and responsive at launch or this thread will be nothing compared to the shitstorm that is in store. Personally, just show me the games Sony.

 

[FINALBOSS]

"Via GPU" would mean the console is 50% more powerful because of the GPU. That's not the case here.

Sigh.

 

[dragonbane]

Saw it coming for the OS features they are pushing.

Recording last 15 min gameplay
Instantaneous return to a game (game suspend or some shit like that)
Sharing videos
Probably some multitasking

All that ain't free.

And that's even incomplete. From my estimate here is what the PS4 is capable of doing at the SAME time:

-Playing a game
-Streaming the game to Vita
-Streaming the game to the internet
-Permanently recording 15 minutes of the game
-Downloading parts of the game while it is being played from the HDD
-Downloading other stuff while the game is being played
-Using Apps like Skype and Netflix at the same time as well as the browser

 

[PBY]

Nope, difference is still significant. Slight (possible) reduction in Ram available for games doesn't negate the fact it's still significantly faster Ram and there is still more of it available for games than the DDR3 on Xbone. To say nothing of the much more powerful GPU as well.

There is still a notable gap between these two machines spec wise.

I mean- isn't that relative/a matter of perspective? I dunno, I doubt the gap will be that noticeable in multiplats. Im envisioning a repeat of this gen.

Basically- I don't really care. Ps4 preorder still in tact?

 

[reddmyst]

.

 

[mrklaw]

Saw it coming for the OS features they are pushing.

Recording last 15 min gameplay
Instantaneous return to a game (game suspend or some shit like that)
Sharing videos
Probably some multitasking

All that ain't free.

- Recording last 15 minutes can record direct to the HDD like DVRs do. Not a particularly heavy thing to do
- game suspend requires no OS ram, but it does mean the OS can't expand to use all the console ram if needed, because the game will still be 'using' it
- sharing videos - can already do on PS3
- multitasking: vita can have a bunch of apps open with a game suspended in the background, all in 512MB

 

[FunkyPajamas]

You have made an enemy this day, FunkyPajamas.

Surely this will be a day that you rue. In the future.

 

[ironchair]

Sony is playing it very safe for launch units. Things like clock rates, OS size, and memory allotments are conservative for a reason. Sony does not want to be in a position where they will lose out on a killer feature or find themselves in a position where there is zero room to grow. I wouldn't be surprised if year 3 or 4 of the PS4's life cycle you see a patch to upclock the GPU.

Upclocking the PS4's GPU 200 mhz more would yield a 2.3 TF machine.

As of this moment, not a single developer has complained about "too little RAM". Most developers are very happy by not only the quantity, but the speed of RAM. As we enter the third year of the machine, the OS size will shrink and things will become less bloated.

Let things play their part and STOP overreacting. Some of you have zero idea how well designed and balanced the PS4 is.

Thanks for the clarifications. Seriously. My mind is completely at ease now.

 

[140.85]

To those upset about this - did you honestly assume that PS4 would have 7-7.5 gigs free?

 

[CloakedPuppet]

Honestly, by my estimation, that's true of people on both sides of the issue. And to clarify, what I mean by that is that -- though I readily admit that some people do seem to be genuinely upset and maybe one or two of those "I cancelled my predorders" posts may be real -- I think those posts are far outnumbered in quantity at this point by people that are simply convinced that there's hyperbole everywhere because that's the narrative.

"Oh man, overreactions everywhere. Calm down." But I bet if I challenged you to find 10 sincerely outraged individuals (i.e. facetious outrage for the laughs doesn't count), it'd probably take you longer than you think. Though it shouldn't, because every time I click this thread I see comment after comment about how everyone has gone crazy!

You're right - I was just funnin'. I could easily have replaced "hyperbole" with "mouse clicks".

 

[johnny956]

Yeah but when and how much?

Took Sony 4 years to get to 120mb to 50mb but percentage wise that's pretty significant. It went down several times over the course of those 4 years so it could be in a year or 6 months (Wii U just had one is my guess).

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

Sold on day 1? Maybe I was, but my choice for the PS4 over Xbone from the start was sheer fanboy/childhood memories of the Playstation brand, and I really wanted to continue that. I've never owned an Xbox because I never liked the brand, or the games. But it seems like MS has even taken that away from me (MGS, FF, KH)... There's just no reason to own a PS4 over an Xbone, but there are multiple reasons to own a Xbone over a PS4. And as you'll probably know, MS's content policies won't let the PS4 outshine the Xbone has far as graphics when it comes to multiplats. They'll be equal as far as that.

I'm just trying something new for a change, maybe.

Please explain? Because I fail to see the reasons besides wanting a full all in one media box that you can get for less.

_________________________


In this case, if this is true...I feel that Sony has finally taken making a better OS system serious. Looks isn't what matters but functionality. The Vita OS looks childish but works amazing. I still wished Sony could of did a deal with Google and had some of Google goodies on it but If it works good why should I complain.

As for games, some people are getting ahead of themselves and once again underestimate Sony again. It's like history is going to repeat itself again, this time with the tides being highly different.

Sony brings one thing that they promise from day one that MS can not match and that's games. At the end of the day, we are gamers who play games....To me, there's only two companies that commits to that and one that has that additional to other services they want to push...and as far as I'm concerned, that's what I'm going for.

 

[DieH@rd]

After asking personal contacts about the situation, I have deduced the following:

1. The RAM situation on PS4 is the most ideal form imaginable.
2. Sony has provided a huge amount of quality RAM.
3. RAM allocations for future OS improvements are in place for any unaccounted for additions that may require OS to bloat in the future.
4. No one developer has argued that there isn't enough RAM. Not a single one.


5. "If a developer cannot figure out what to do with 5+ GBs of RAM; he should quit his day job."


This is all I can contribute, and if some of you feel like cutting each other's throats because those 3 GB will not be available on day 1; I don't know what to tell you. I don't have hard numbers, but I am told to ignore the pessimism because reality is far from what the picture Apocalypse-GAF is painting.

As for the Apocalypse-GAF: continue ignoring Verrendus, famourmortimer, I, and Bruceleeroy. I'm out ya'll .

bird has spoken

 

[FunkyPajamas]

your rectum must be very tough

Papercut!

 

[tfur]

.

omg, only 1 GigamaBobs for games now!

 

[FlipWilson]

I guess my ignorance is bliss; since I don't really know much about the tech side of gaming but I don't see what the big deal is, we've seen some amazing games accomplished the PS3 and didn't that have like 512mb or ram?(correct me if I'm wrong) and now we're getting like 10x more than that(and that's the extent of my techie knowledge) what's the big deal?


P.S. my first post on GAF!!!(after lurking for years) I will now celebrate by eating a sandwich and rubbing my dogs' belly

 

[NullPointer]

Since this is a shit on Sony thread, however...

Sure it is.

If you can't see the world in anything but console war glasses maybe you should just avoid these threads.

 

[CrisKre]

.

Su Wii U saved then?

 

[owasog]

Well not really. According to that article in the OP, the developers are guaranteed to have 4.5gb and can *request* additional 1gb, if the OS can spare it.

So how exactly would this work? How useful is 1GB that might be available, sometimes? Useful as a cache?

 

[SpecDotSign]

Hey guys, how about let's wait until the consoles are out. And then enjoy the crap out of them because, you know, they're new freakin brand new consoles!
Geez y'all taking the fun out of my excitement!

 

[Poetic.Injustice]

.

Not all devs are Naught Dog. Others may struggle in the future.

 

[amr]

After asking personal contacts about the situation, I have deduced the following:

1. The RAM situation on PS4 is the most ideal form imaginable.
2. Sony has provided a huge amount of quality RAM.
3. RAM allocations for future OS improvements are in place for any unaccounted for additions that may require OS to bloat in the future.
4. No one developer has argued that there isn't enough RAM. Not a single one.


5. "If a developer cannot figure out what to do with 5+ GBs of RAM; he should quit his day job."


This is all I can contribute, and if some of you feel like cutting each other's throats because those 3 GB will not be available on day 1; I don't know what to tell you. I don't have hard numbers, but I am told to ignore the pessimism because reality is far from what the picture Apocalypse-GAF is painting.

As for the Apocalypse-GAF: continue ignoring Verrendus, famourmortimer, I, and Bruceleeroy. I'm out ya'll .

^ Read this or risk looking foolish.

 

[dragonelite]

omg, only 1 GigamaBobs for games now!

Not even 1 GigamaBoobs...
/Cancelling preorder i first have to make

 

[Wickerbasket]

These threads confuse the hell out of me.

Is it really that big a deal that the PS4 uses the same amount of memory for the OS as the Xbox One?

Do people just enjoy having bigger numbers?

 

[Kagari]

After asking personal contacts about the situation, I have deduced the following:

1. The RAM situation on PS4 is the most ideal form imaginable.
2. Sony has provided a huge amount of quality RAM.
3. RAM allocations for future OS improvements are in place for any unaccounted for additions that may require OS to bloat in the future.
4. No one developer has argued that there isn't enough RAM. Not a single one.


5. "If a developer cannot figure out what to do with 5+ GBs of RAM; he should quit his day job."


This is all I can contribute, and if some of you feel like cutting each other's throats because those 3 GB will not be available on day 1; I don't know what to tell you. I don't have hard numbers, but I am told to ignore the pessimism because reality is far from what the picture Apocalypse-GAF is painting.

As for the Apocalypse-GAF: continue ignoring Verrendus, famourmortimer, I, and Bruceleeroy. I'm out ya'll .

1.5GB for the OS isn't too far out of the realm of expectation anyway.

 

[dragonbane]

Sony may need competition, but a console that isn't an unstoppable juggernaut won't be enough to break Microsoft's vice grip on the US market. If their multiplatform games are only a marginal improvement, gamers will continue to buy on Xbox, which means all of this "for gamers" talk was for nothing.

I was hoping that this gen would be an open and shut case from minute one, as you pointed out. This generation was absolutely terrible, so I would really rather not see a repeat of it next gen.

Sony has a huge bonus in the US just because of price. Amazon.com and GameStop have way more PS4s pre-ordered than the XB1. Microsoft could very well loose the US just because of price. The only thing that would have made a serious number of people translate over to the XB1 is backwards compatibility for their digital libraries. Ain't happening. Yes many XBox gamers are going to buy the XB1 to play with their friends. But not that many I promise you.

The US market is just as loyal as the rest of the world. Not at all. 360 is selling more, because it is still cheaper. PS4 could and probably will win the US at launch. Rest of the world anyway. We see how it goes from there.

 

[fabricated backlash]

Su Wii U saved then?

Nah, that one's still doomed.

 

[Vashetti]

How much RAM are games currently in development using? If they're using close to, or all of, the allotted 4.5GBs, what does that mean for future games?

Absolutely zilch.

2007 - Resistance: Fall of Man (PS3)

2013 - The Last of Us (PS3)

Developers don't just max out the RAM and then shit the bed. They optimise and get better.

 

[squidyj]

And that's even incomplete. From my estimate here is what the PS4 is capable of doing at the SAME time:

-Playing a game
-Streaming the game to Vita
-Streaming the game to the internet
-Permanently recording 15 minutes of the game
-Downloading parts of the game while it is being played from the HDD
-Downloading other stuff while the game is being played
-Using Apps like Skype and Netflix at the same time as well as the browser

the only one i can see using a significant amount of memory is recording gameplay.

Why can't I find any halfway decent diagrams of the ps4 architecture, showing buses and the dedicated video encoder? gah.

 

[gruenel]

To those upset about this - did you honestly assume that PS4 would have 7-7.5 gigs free?

I'm not upset about this at all since 5.5GB will be plenty for the next few years, but 7GB really didn't sound that unrealistic. I mean 1GB for the OS is literally 20x as much as we have on PS3.

 

[BlastProcessing]

As it does me. I've watched my hobby become less about games and more about screenshots. Less about mechanics and more about fancy QTEs. Less about solid gameplay and more about mind-blowing trailers. It seems gamers these days enjoy anticipating the potential of upcoming games more than playing the games themselves. Games will be hyped to hell and back for years with trailers and screenshots and hype injected directly into the veins of gamers, and once the game comes out no one cares after a week or two. Nothing more to anticipate, time to move onto the next set of fancy trailers and screenshots showing amazing textures and photoshopped edges.

"I saw the best minds of my [console] generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked,
dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn looking for an angry fix,
angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly connection to the starry dynamo in the machinery of night,"

Ginsberg [with one minor edit]

 

[CadetMahoney]

In the end both consoles are so similar that 3rd party games will be the same and it'll be the first party stuff that shines on either platform.

Incorrect, PS4 is vastly superior so multiplatform games won't have small differences in performance.

 

[reddmyst]

Not all devs are Naught Dog. Others may struggle in the future.

Yeah not every dev can be like naughty dog. You seriously believe that 4.5GB or even 5.5GB other devs (may) struggle.

What makes you believe that?

I'm curious.

 

[FunkyPajamas]

To those upset about this - did you honestly assume that PS4 would have 7-7.5 gigs free?

I am not upset about this, but I did think PS4 was going to have 6.5-7 GB free for games. It didn't cross my mind that Sony would reserve more than 1.5GB for OS.

Again, I'm not upset about this.

And now that things have been cleared up by those in the know, I think it makes sense and I like the flexibility that Sony seems to be giving developers. Just as long as the reserved memory for the OS is put to good use (i.e. useful and interesting features) I'll be more than happy.

My stance on the console hasn't changed. I will not be getting it on day one since I am not an early adopter, but it will still be my primary console of choice come next gen.

 

[Shin]

Indeed I do, good sir. But what irks the fuck out of me is how does a console that neither has to sequester ram for kinect nor cable tv functionalities require MORE RAM than its competitor that does?

Except it doesn't....we're talking about dev-kits, that's what the article is about.
As I kept saying, people assume dev-kits = retail model....that itself is adding to the confusion.

 

[Portugeezer]

This thread is all about Drama

Did someone say gddrama?

 

[perineumlick]

I guess my ignorance is bliss; since I don't really know much about the tech side of gaming but I don't see what the big deal is, we've seen some amazing games accomplished the PS3 and didn't that have like 512mb or ram?(correct me if I'm wrong) and now we're getting like 10x more than that(and that's the extent of my techie knowledge) what's the big deal?


P.S. my first post on GAF!!!(after lurking for years) I will now celebrate by eating a sandwich and rubbing my dogs' belly[/QUOTE]
At first glance my eyes read something more...sinister. Lol, too much time spent in the POV porn thread.

Anyway; welcome! ; )

 

[Micerider]

This thread is awesome! I'm not even sure we are talking about playing/making games anymore, just numbers with little context.

 

[The Crimson Kid]

Has Sony replied? Has this been proven? Holy shit at this thread.

No reply from Sony. No secondary proof or definitive corroboration from any other news source. No one knows shit.

Rather, no one involved in this topic (except for Cowboy at ND and the Octodad dev) knows shit.

The only source for this is a website that has had a mediocre record when it comes to next-gen hardware reporting, and to boot, all they have is some anonymous source. Even when DF was willing to list their sources, they still were wrong on the eSRAM speed doubling in the XB1 and the insistence that the PS4 would never have more than 4 GB of RAM. And that's just for starters.

The few websites that are reporting on this are just sourcing the original article without having any info of their own. They don't know shit.

We have some "insiders" on GAF that don't know specifics but have acknowledged that some RAM is being reserved to be used later in the lifecycle and that games probably won't get access to 7 GB of memory like it was originally believed among the public. As for the veracity of DF's specific claims, they don't know shit.

And then, we have some journalists like Arthur Gies and Brad Shoemaker weighing in trying to say that there is truth to this based on some of the "talk" they've heard around the industry. All of Arthur's predictions based on "industry chatter" have been way off the mark, and Brad (as well as the rest of GB) was totally convinced before E3 that Sony was going to restrict used games and implement system-level DRM because publishers demanded it, among bunches of other "industry talk" that turned out to be false. They don't know shit.

The only people who have publicly commented in any way are Cowboy from Naughty Dog and the Octodad dev, both of whom have hands-on experience with PS4 development. While they didn't confirm anything, they both treated this whole uproar as kind of a joke.

It is simply astounding to me that so many people on GAF are still acting like this is confirmed info at all.

 

[Keyouta]

This thread makes for great reading, guys and gals, keep up the good work!

 

[Garjon]

Absolutely zilch.
Developers don't just max out the RAM and then shit the bed. They optimise and get better.

Yep, I suppose I was jumping the gun a bit before, I was comparing PC RAM to the RAM of consoles which in retrospect was fairly stupid. I suppose it is all just a numbers game after all.

I just can't figure out where they're witholding that remaining GB for.