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[Sho_Nuff82]

Microsoft are never going to remove one of the key features of their console to sell more units. Calling for it's removal and splitting the user-base for the sake of $80 or whatever is the dumbest thing being said about the Xbox One.

People calling for the removal without thinking about what that means should just go buy a PS4 and then feel the burn when/if a game comes out that forces them to pay $100 for an accessory to play it.

MS are much more likely to lower the price than to downgrade a key feature to an optional accessory.

MS is more likely to

A) Keep Kinect with all SKUs, drop the price to $399, losing $1 billion or so on the first 10 million consoles. But hey, 100% attach rate!

or

B) Keep the $499 SKU with Kinect, sell a $399 SKU without Kinect, and sell the camera for $120-$150 (like they did with the 360, which earned them billions of dollars). Roughly 50%-60% attach rate based on availability in the first year.

or

C) Keep the $499 SKU as the only SKU, get outsold 2:1 by Sony for the demographic that only cares about CoD/Madden/BF/FIFA/AC, for whom the price difference is literally the ONLY difference between the two consoles.

Hmm, that sounds like a tough choice.

Splitting the userbase is not a relevant concern right now. The only Kinect exclusive games are sequels to Kinect 360 games and Harmonix's new Disney game. That's it. KS and DC sell 1-3 million a year, a 50% attach rate is more than enough to accommodate that.

 

[farisr]

Except that it would be foolish to just buy on the basis of a launch lineup. Microsoft have gone hard early and tailed off hugely two generations in a row, they will likely do the same this time. I'll hedge my bets with the far stronger first party and the company that clearly cares about providing great exclusives throughout the gen.

Either way, the launch lineups aren't so different. The multiplat stuff is far more impressive.

As for this particular 180, it's more great news, but I'm finding it hard to trust Microsoft. It's much easier to trust the company who got it right all along than the one that is stumbling to get it right.

Yup, launch titles only differ in number by 1 or 2. The rest is all opinions.

For me, the PS4 launch lineup + inFAMOUS >>> All the games MS has shown off so far.
But yeah, I won't scoff at anyone saying they prefer the MS launch lineup over the ps4 launch lineup.

 

[RedAssedApe]

the chances of MS dropping the price by $100 and keeping Kinect is ludicrous...$399 without Kinect? maybe ill give you that...but you have to remember...MS is already going to be taking a loss on each Xbone sold...the bean counters have already crunched numbers for months and months and decided what was the appropriate launch price based on hardware costs....

If BOM is accurate neither console is selling at a loss at launch. Sony has learned from the PS3 to not make that mistake and I'm sure MS is following suit. So I don't doubt that there is a little bit of wiggle room IF they wanted to.

 

[Oemenia]

I remember reading a bunch of articles talking about a rumored civil war happening in Microsoft between the Xbox engineers and the executives. Engineers wanted it to be like it is now, executives wanted it to be like it was after the reveal.

MS have been pretty good at taking a lot of heat recently but the X1 backlash must've been really that bad for Mattrick to quit. Besides we all know how the system could've turned out from the earlier leak that suggested DDR4 RAM and the XENON CPU.

 

[José Mourinho]

I was in for the Xbox One from the start and I have to say, I'm honestly disappointed at the various policy reversals. Just feels like the two consoles are virtually the same thing.

 

[Satchel]

I don't like fighters, and I prefer arcade racers over sims. There is your legitimate argument. You could go on and on. Ryse looks like a QTE fest, Titanfall could be played on 2 other platforms, etc.

Anyone that feels it's "hard" to argue one launch lineup is better is taking their own personal taste and trying to project it on everyone else.

Way to ignore the part that came before that.

 

[x-Lundz-x]

I don't get why you guys want identical consoles.

I like that Kinect is mandatory b/c it allows developers to bring different stuff to the table. I found the PS3 and 360 too samey as is. I like the divergence.

They aren't, one is much more powerful.

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

I think it's great that the XBOne has changed basically everything from that reveal. They had no choice and only did it because of the pre-order debacle but I think it says a lot for people voting with their wallet and meaning it. One by one stupid policies are reversed or ammended and it actually makes it a much less awful product.

I still won't be getting one though.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

They aren't, one is much more powerful.

Even ignoring the power differences, the exclusive lineups announced right now are pretty different. Variety is going to come from talent and vision, not gimmicks.

 

[jim2011]

MS is more likely to

A) Keep Kinect with all SKUs, drop the price to $399, losing $1 billion or so on the first 10 million consoles. But hey, 100% attach rate!

or

B) Keep the $499 SKU with Kinect, sell a $399 SKU without Kinect, and sell the camera for $120-$150 (like they did with the 360, which earned them billions of dollars). Roughly 50%-60% attach rate based on availability in the first year.

or

C) Keep the $499 SKU as the only SKU, get outsold 2:1 by Sony for the demographic that only cares about CoD/Madden/BF/FIFA/AC, for whom the price difference is literally the ONLY difference between the two consoles.

Hmm, that sounds like a tough choice.

Splitting the userbase is not a relevant concern right now. The only Kinect exclusive games are sequels to Kinect 360 games and Harmonix's new Disney game. That's it. KS and DC sell 1-3 million a year, a 50% attach rate is more than enough to accommodate that.

You're naive if you think that those are the only games made exclusively for kinect. Microsoft is pushing the hardcore games right now but you can bet that there's a ton of kinect games lined up for next year.

Would you ever buy a laptop without a touchpad/pointer device? That's how serious Microsoft is about Kinect being a part of Xbox One. It is a primary control device, not an accessory you buy that you can use with xbox one.

 

[kennyamr]

Next Step for Microsoft: We will change the name of the Xbox One for Xbox 4... because "We listen to our customers" (<__<) yeahhh suuuure...

 

[Freezie KO]

On the heels of the all the NSA stuff in the headlines, this is a prudent move. I was shocked that they ever thought it was a good idea to force users into plugging in a camera.

Only one move left to make, and many of us know what it is....

You're naive if you think that those are the only games made exclusively for kinect. Microsoft is pushing the hardcore games right now but you can bet that there's a ton of kinect games lined up for next year.

Would you ever buy a laptop without a touchpad/pointer device? That's how serious Microsoft is about Kinect being a part of Xbox One. It is a primary control device, not an accessory you buy that you can use with xbox one.

I'd buy a laptop without a webcam.

 

[alr1ght]

Next Step for Microsoft: We will change the name of the Xbox One for Xbox 4... because "We listen to our customers" (<__<) yeahhh suuuure...

Just like Winamp 3 to Winamp 5. 3 sucked so bad they jumped to 5.

 

[CadetMahoney]

The X1 backlash must've been really that bad for Mattrick to quit.

I just want to know what decisions he made for x1.

 

[Quadraphonic]

You're naive if you think that those are the only games made exclusively for kinect. Microsoft is pushing the hardcore games right now but you can bet that there's a ton of kinect games lined up for next year.

Would you ever buy a laptop without a touchpad/pointer device? That's how serious Microsoft is about Kinect being a part of Xbox One. It is a primary control device, not an accessory you buy that you can use with xbox one.

Right now my laptop has a touch screen, a touch pad AND a wireless mouse.

Yes, I would be FINE losing ONE OF THREE inputs.

 

[Sub_Level]

Only one move left to make, and many of us know what it is....

MS buys Atlus?

 

[Finalizer]

It is a primary control device

It was so critical, in fact, that there was no way to deactivate the device before, let alone unplug it.

...Wait a second...

 

[jim2011]

Ok fine, I was just trying to make a point about how Microsoft sees it.

I think we'll all see for ourselves once we get our hands on the xbox one. I'll admit it could be not as good as I hope it will be. However based on early impressions, it sounds really impressive and definitely has the opportunity to turn some heads.

Edit:
I guess a better analogy would be trying to use Windows with a keyboard alone. It can be done yes, but I certainly wouldn't want to do it on a daily basis that way.

 

[DrZeus]

From May 21st til now has been absolutely baffling. Really shows MS lack of vision concerning this monumental product they are launching this fall. I'm still interested, but not until a couple price drops and more interesting software(outside of Spark and Quantum Break) are announced.

 

[kuroshiki]

Ok fine, I was just trying to make a point about how Microsoft sees it.

I think we'll all see for ourselves once we get our hands on the xbox one. I'll admit it could be not as good as I hope it will be. However based on early impressions, it sounds really impressive and definitely has the opportunity to turn some heads.

Edit:
I guess a better analogy would be trying to use Windows with a keyboard alone. It can be done yes, but I certainly wouldn't want to do it on a daily basis that way.

....exactly where this first impression you are hearing from?

 

[NewGame]

A few more 180s and we'll have the 720 we want.

 

[Vyse The Legend]

Yikes. They must really be getting destroyed on preorders still.

 

[Phire Phox]

MS is more likely to

A) Keep Kinect with all SKUs, drop the price to $399, losing $1 billion or so on the first 10 million consoles. But hey, 100% attach rate!

or

B) Keep the $499 SKU with Kinect, sell a $399 SKU without Kinect, and sell the camera for $120-$150 (like they did with the 360, which earned them billions of dollars). Roughly 50%-60% attach rate based on availability in the first year.

or

C) Keep the $499 SKU as the only SKU, get outsold 2:1 by Sony for the demographic that only cares about CoD/Madden/BF/FIFA/AC, for whom the price difference is literally the ONLY difference between the two consoles.

Hmm, that sounds like a tough choice.

Splitting the userbase is not a relevant concern right now. The only Kinect exclusive games are sequels to Kinect 360 games and Harmonix's new Disney game. That's it. KS and DC sell 1-3 million a year, a 50% attach rate is more than enough to accommodate that.

LOL, not happening. COD/BF/Madden crew will still buy Xbone to play with their friends from 360. A Benjamin isn't going to keep them from the Xbox platform that their familiar with. Xbox will still get the exclusive DLC for COD and BF.

 

[border]

You're naive if you think that those are the only games made exclusively for kinect. Microsoft is pushing the hardcore games right now but you can bet that there's a ton of kinect games lined up for next year.

Not really. They said they had 15 Microsoft-published exclusives for the first year of Xbox One. They've already revealed almost all of them, and only one has a Kinect focus.

 

[kuroshiki]

LOL, not happening. COD/BF/Madden crew will still buy Xbone to play with their friends from 360. A Benjamin isn't going to keep them from the Xbox platform that their familiar with. Xbox will still get the exclusive DLC for COD and BF.

except friends from 360 can't play with Xbone users.

it's fresh start.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

You're naive if you think that those are the only games made exclusively for kinect. Microsoft is pushing the hardcore games right now but you can bet that there's a ton of kinect games lined up for next year.

Counterpoint: You're naive if you think there are dozens of unannounced AAA Kinect games waiting to be announced based on zero precedence on the 360, with zero devs making public statements announcing investment in the device as an exclusive input, and zero evidence (leaked or announced) that MS' first party is using it for anything more than party and casual games.

Do you know why Kinect Sports and Fantasia were announced first? Because they are the highest profile Kinect games in development for the launch window. Even though neither game will be ready in November, MS needed something to explain why the thing was in the box other than the UI...

Would you ever buy a laptop without a touchpad/pointer device? That's how serious Microsoft is about Kinect being a part of Xbox One. It is a primary control device, not an accessory you buy that you can use with xbox one.

...which brings me to my second point. If MS was that serious, they would make Kinect mandatory for UI navigation. But since MS is a business, businesses have to hedge their bets, which is why they designed it from the outset to be navigable via the default gamepad. Kinect is to One as touch is to Windows 8 - the UI was obviously devised with it in mind, but you'd have to be braindead to release a PC OS that doesn't accept mouse/KB inputs, just like you'd have to be braindead to release a console UI that doesn't accept controller inputs.

It is an accessory, because 95% of the game library does not require it to operate properly. That has always been the definition of an accessory. Contrast this to the WiiMote, where 95% of the game library flat out did not work without it. Go the XboxOne home page:

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-one/xbox-one-games?xr=shellnav

4 out of 44 announced games require Kinect.

Peripheral.

LOL, not happening. COD/BF/Madden crew will still buy Xbone to play with their friends from 360. A Benjamin isn't going to keep them from the Xbox platform that their familiar with. Xbox will still get the exclusive DLC for COD and BF.

No backwards compatibility, and controller familiarity/platform history didn't do jack shit for people who jumped ship for DMC4, GTA4, RE5, and Madden. $100 is a $100. Casuals don't care about the name on the box, the PS3 at $599 proved that.

Situation C is happening RIGHT NOW, even with the DRM/used game/indie reversals.

 

[Nibiru]

Good job everyone who criticized all the the braindead decisions MS made with the Xbone now it is a console worth having, well after they release the version that doesn't have the Kinect and is cheaper.

 

[jim2011]

....exactly where this first impression you are hearing from?

Every single published impression of Kinect for Xbox One that I have seen:

Engadget
IGN
Wired
Gizmodo

Watch the Wired and Gizmodo videos if you haven't seen them yet

 

[Nibiru]

Has IGN been bought by MS? Almost the whole site is Xbox One news everywhere. It's pretty hilarious.

 

[Al13n]

This is a good thing but I sincerely hope there won't be a kinectless version. I was no fan of the original kinect, but this one really seems like added value wich helps differentiate itself from the PS4. The auto recognition functionality alone is VERY nice!

 

[Codeblew]

Yep, its definitely coming. And thats a good thing. I don't want to have to pay for it.

With this latest 180 they are right on the wire of the last change needed to save this hot mess. Go ahead and introduce a second SKU without the Kinect and we will be good to go.

If they drop Kinnect and lower the price to $399, the XB1 will just be known as a weaker PS4.

 

[The_Killah29]

WHITTEN: Xbox One is designed to work with Kinect plugged in. It makes gaming better in many ways – from the ability to say “Xbox On” and get right to your personalized homescreen, to the ability to control your TV through voice, Smartglass and more.

...Why do I have to buy Smartglass and use a Kinect to make my game experience better? Why not just make the games themselves better without having to rely on unnecessary and expensive add-ons?

Kinect allows you to search for your content, instantly move between games and your personalized dash and more with just your voice. Kinect helps you pick up and play by automatically knowing which controller you have in your hands. No more need to interrupt your friends game or navigate through multiple UI screens to sign in and tell the system which controller you are holding. It will even bind the controller to the console if its currently unbound – no searching for special buttons! Of course – these are just a few of the system wide benefits of having Kinect.

These seem like great ideas, but if their past performances are to be an indicator, it's not gonna work as well as they claim it will.

Games use Kinect in a variety of amazing ways from adding voice to control your squad mates to adding lean and other simple controls beyond the controller to full immersive gameplay.

Couldn't I have just used a headset instead of having to get a Kinect?

That said, like online, the console will still function if Kinect isn’t plugged in, although you won’t be able to use any feature or experience that explicitly uses the sensor.

"You can unplug your Kinect, just don't expect your XBox One to work."
That's what I'm getting from this statement. :/

 

[Syphon Filter]

Yikes. They must really be getting destroyed on preorders still.

They sold out a while ago. It's more for the long run.

 

[jaypah]

Not really. They said they had 15 Microsoft-published exclusives for the first year of Xbox One. They've already revealed almost all of them, and only one has a Kinect focus.

Which sucks because Kinect is what I'm most interested in in regards to the X1. Ah well, hopefully Kinect Sports Rivals will be fun.

"You can unplug your Kinect, just don't expect your XBox One to work."
That's what I'm getting from this statement. :/

Seriously? The actual text is like the complete opposite of that.

 

[jim2011]

Counterpoint: You're naive if you think there are dozens of unannounced AAA Kinect games waiting to be announced based on zero precedence on the 360, with zero devs making public statements announcing investment in the device as an exclusive input, and zero evidence (leaked or announced) that MS' first party is using it for anything more than party and casual games.

Do you know why Kinect Sports and Fantasia were announced first? Because they are the highest profile Kinect games in development for the launch window. Even though neither game will be ready in November, MS needed something to explain why the thing was in the box other than the UI...



...which brings me to my second point. If MS was that serious, they would make Kinect mandatory for UI navigation. But since MS is a business, businesses have to hedge their bets, which is why they designed it from the outset to be navigable via the default gamepad. Kinect is to One as touch is to Windows 8 - the UI was obviously devised with it in mind, but you'd have to be braindead to release a PC OS that doesn't accept mouse/KB inputs, just like you'd have to be braindead to release a console UI that doesn't accept controller inputs.

It is an accessory, because 95% of the game library does not require it to operate properly. That has always been the definition of an accessory. Contrast this to the WiiMote, where 95% of the game library flat out did not work without it. Go the XboxOne home page:

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-one/xbox-one-games?xr=shellnav

4 out of 44 announced games require Kinect.

Peripheral.

I would agree about your analogy to Windows 8 being built for touch yet supporting keyboards and mouse as well. If you have a touch screen windows 8 device, wouldn't you want to take advantage of it? That's how I feel about kinect and xbox one.

As for Xbox one exclusive games, not many have been announced and I don't think there will be many in year 1 as I stated. The focus is definitely on core games at the moment. I also believe that most games that have been in development for next gen systems started being built as PCs with specs similar to those of the new systems. They would not have had access to the new Kinect until sometime this year.

That said, there is the rumor that EVERY xbox one game needs smart glass and kinect functionality.

 

[Bsigg12]

...Why do I have to buy Smartglass and use a Kinect to make my game experience better? Why not just make the games themselves better without having to rely on unnecessary and expensive add-ons?


These seem like great ideas, but if their past performances are to be an indicator, it's not gonna work as well as they claim it will.


Couldn't I have just used a headset instead of having to get a Kinect?


"You can unplug your Kinect, just don't expect your XBox One to work."
That's what I'm getting from this statement. :/

What do you mean buy SmartGlass? Its a free app that runs on almost every device imaginable.

What past performances? The 360 slowing down because its 8 year old hardware or alpha builds of the OS that had almost no optimization done?

Finally, your Xbox One will work without the Kinect, certain features obviously will not. There will be games and apps that require it that will prompt you to plug in/enable the Kinect but the entire system can be used without it.

 

[jim2011]

Not really. They said they had 15 Microsoft-published exclusives for the first year of Xbox One. They've already revealed almost all of them, and only one has a Kinect focus.

Hence next year... and I don't mean just first party

 

[Cipherr]

If they drop Kinnect and lower the price to $399, the XB1 will just be known as a weaker PS4.

Its already a weaker PS4. Just it happens to be a weaker PS4 that costs more. Remove Kinect and lower the price.

Its an improvement.

 

[Prologue]

Its already a weaker PS4. Just it happens to be a weaker PS4 that costs more. Remove Kinect and lower the price.

Its an improvement.

An improvement to you. They aren't shipping with the same message as the 360 and are betting a lot on Kinnect this time around.

 

[DigitalDevilSummoner]

At this point, it would mean little but I would like to hear MS commit -again- to bundling the Kinect with every console, 'cause they have apparently opened the door for that just in case scenario.
I mean be honest with your costumers and show some backbone.

 

[Codeblew]

Its already a weaker PS4. Just it happens to be a weaker PS4 that costs more. Remove Kinect and lower the price.

Its an improvement.

Right. But at least Kinnect differentiates it from the PS4 and distracts from the fact that you are paying $100 more for weaker hardware.

 

[JaggedSac]

Not really. They said they had 15 Microsoft-published exclusives for the first year of Xbox One. They've already revealed almost all of them, and only one has a Kinect focus.

Zoo Tycoon looks like it has a heavy Kinect focus to it.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

Somebody needs to make a poll about this. I can't find an option myself so I'm assuming it's because I'm relatively new here:

"Now that Kinect isn't needed, are you going to leave it in the box?"

 

[Finalizer]

LOL, not happening. COD/BF/Madden crew will still buy Xbone to play with their friends from 360. A Benjamin isn't going to keep them from the Xbox platform that their familiar with. Xbox will still get the exclusive DLC for COD and BF.

People still argue this after witnessing the PS3 coming only at odds with the 360 even though the PS2 before it ruled the 6th gen. I really don't understand this notion of customer loyalty when generations beforehand handily disprove it.

 

[SolsticeZero]

People still argue this after witnessing the PS3 coming only at odds with the 360 even though the PS2 before it ruled the 6th gen. I really don't understand this notion of customer loyalty when generations beforehand handily disprove it.

Because Xbox,that's why

 

[mr teaspoon]

MS have been pretty good at taking a lot of heat recently but the X1 backlash must've been really that bad for Mattrick to quit.

Oh please, the Mattrick/Zynga deal had been in the works for quite a while. You're mistaken if you think it was 'oh my god, nobody is pre-ordering, I'm outta here!'

 

[The_Killah29]

Seriously? The actual text is like the complete opposite of that.

Wasn't the system made to be centered around the Kinect 2.0? If so, they why is the ability to completely disconnect the Kinect from the system making it a brick? And if they have been truly believing in the Kinect they wouldn't have made the option of completely unplugging it. It honestly makes no sense.

What do you mean buy SmartGlass? Its a free app that runs on almost every device imaginable.

Ok then, so why do I need to buy a tablet or phone for a game console to access features in a game? Or even they assume the average gamer has the money to buy those devices or even afford them?

What past performances? The 360 slowing down because its 8 year old hardware or alpha builds of the OS that had almost no optimization done?

The fact that the OS was completely faked when shown off at it's reveal
http://www.thecoversystem.com/2013/06/ui-demonstration-at-xbox-one-reveal.html

Finally, your Xbox One will work without the Kinect, certain features obviously will not. There will be games and apps that require it that will prompt you to plug in/enable the Kinect but the entire system can be used without it.

See my response to jaypah.

 

[The_Killah29]

MS have been pretty good at taking a lot of heat recently but the X1 backlash must've been really that bad for Mattrick to quit.

Officially Microsoft said he quit, but it was obvious that he was fired for his involvement in the X1 clusterfluff by making up most of the ideas for it's DRM 'features' and not shutting up so their PR can make sense of the whole situation and try to spin it as a positive thing.

They did it to Orth, and they did it to him.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Ok then, so why do I need to buy a tablet or phone for a game console to access features in a game? Or even they assume the average gamer has the money to buy those devices or even afford them?
.

More than half the US owns a smartphone. All of the Smartglass features are optional. It's the least intrusive, most inclusive feature that MS has at the moment.

Taken together, 61% of cell owners said yes to at least one of these questions and are classified as smartphone owners. Because 91% of the adult population now owns some kind of cell phone, that means that 56% of all American adults are now smartphone adopters. One third (35%) have some other kind of cell phone that is not a smartphone, and the remaining 9% of Americans do not own a cell phone at all.

 

[Biker19]

I do, but it won't get FFXIV, Atelier, Disgaea, Tales, etc.

Those exclusives are way more important to me than stuff like Ryse or Halo. But that's neither here nor there.

If you are a big fan of genres like JRPG's, Platformers, Fighting games, Hack & Slash games, etc. like I am, then you should definitely stick to Nintendo's & Sony's consoles & handhelds.