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[Jamesways]

Dude, that's not how logic works. I never said that 60FPS equals great gameplay. I said it's the foundation. This is a complete misinterpretation.

60fps is indeed awesome. But at what cost man? AT WHAT COST!!!

I'd gladly take a game with dynamic weather, dynamic time of day changes, etc at 30fps than a bare bones 60fps one. Regardless of arcade of sim.

Reminds me of the Forza thread, I swear some people would be perfectly happy if the devs said, "We got Spa, but had to take out most of the lighting effects, background details, and other cars on track. It's pretty much a bare field around the track."

BUT it's 60fps! The most important thing in the game!
Super awesome! So smooth!

Racing games to me are about immersion. With this next gen, yes, I agree, I expect more and more games to be 60fps. But mostly I want an immersive experience, with dynamic weather, times or day, night, all that stuff.
I don't think that games that are 30fps are impossible to be considered immersive experience.

60fps is great, but in the past (and with Fm5), features have to be cut to achieve that.


I hope Driveclub is fun, pretty, and immersive. Whatever the devs need to do to make that happen, I'm ok with.

 

[Thrakier]

60FPS for me is the very definition of immersion. It's the main reason why I want it so much.

 

[kaching]

Dude, that's not how logic works. I never said that 60FPS equals great gameplay. I said it's the foundation. This is a complete misinterpretation.

lol, talk about splitting hairs. Foundation, aka the very basis upon which a construct depends, upon which all else is built. How are you not saying that high framerate equals great gameplay - it's the very first thing required according to you to even have shot of having great gameplay!

 

[Thrakier]

lol, talk about splitting hairs. Foundation, aka the very basis upon which a construct depends, upon which all else is built. How are you not saying that high framerate equals great gameplay - it's the very first thing required according to you to even have shot of having great gameplay!

Dude, read again what you just wrote. You really need to work out your logic skills. You just described what I'm saying but you don't seem to understand it.

 

[kaching]

It's a distinction without a difference that you're trying to make, Thrakier. Logically, 60fps equals great gameplay, because there's no way to achieve great gameplay without 60fps, since it is the first and most fundamental decision to make when designing gameplay for any game and only route by which "great" gameplay can be achieved, according to you. All other decisions about game design are irrelevant in establishing whether the gameplay can be "great", completely subservient to the decision on framerate.

 

[Thrakier]

It's a distinction without a difference that you're trying to make, Thrakier. Logically, 60fps equals great gameplay, because there's no way to achieve great gameplay without 60fps, since it is the first and most fundamental decision to make when designing gameplay for any game and only route by which "great" gameplay can be achieved, according to you. All other decisions about game design are irrelevant in establishing whether the gameplay can be "great", completely subservient to the decision on framerate.

No, it does NOT equal great gameplay and your "logic" does not apply. As you already said: "it's the very first thing required according to you to even have shot of having great gameplay!" Having a shot at great gameplay does not equal having great gameplay, does it? You can make a 60FPS game with complete shit gameplay.

On the other hand - let's take TLOU for example - I adore the gameplay there but because of the shit framerate - to me - it's just the "gameplay in concept". The shit framerate hinders the gameplay so much that it's not able to come through, to really grab me. I feel disconnected from the game and ultimately, it completly destroys the immersion leaving me alone not with a videogame, but with a videogame like interactive experience.

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

Reminds me of the Forza thread, I swear some people would be perfectly happy if the devs said, "We got Spa, but had to take out most of the lighting effects, background details, and other cars on track. It's pretty much a bare field around the track."

BUT it's 60fps! The most important thing in the game!
Super awesome! So smooth!

Names please or are you talking out of your arse?

It's no different than me saying I swear most of the people here have made day/night transitions out to be a huge deal because that's all DC has going for it over Forza.

 

[kaching]

No, it does NOT equal great gameplay and your "logic" does not apply.

Not my logic, yours. It's what you've been saying to try to (over)sell the importance of 60 fps. You're trying to have it both ways.

Having a shot at great gameplay does not equal having great gameplay, does it?

When it's your *only* shot at great gameplay, yes. You're mincing words otherwise. Unless you want to backpedal a bit and acknowledge that games don't need 60fps to have great gameplay and there are many ways to achieve that...

On the other hand - let's take TLOU for example - I adore the gameplay there but because of the shit framerate - to me - it's just the "gameplay in concept". The shit framerate hinders the gameplay so much that it's not able to come through, to really grab me. I feel disconnected from the game and ultimately, it completly destroys the immersion leaving me alone not with a videogame, but with a videogame like interactive experience.

Oh well, guess not.

 

[Thrakier]

Let me use other words so maybe you understand it. A game can have great gameplay in concept, as long as this concept is hindered by an unstable, low framerate, it's simply no fun. The gameplay concept does therefore not transit in great gameplay, which would probably happen at a high, consistent framerate.

On the other hand, a shit gameplay concept will still be shit at 60FPS. I never claimed that 60FPS is a guarantee for great gameplay and you are really try too hard to put this opinion in my mouth to make me look bad.

If you still don't get my point there is nothing I can say to explain it to you anymore. Although I do think it's not that hard to grasp.

 

[mr_nothin]

Let me use other words so maybe you understand it. A game can have great gameplay in concept, as long as this concept is hindered by an unstable, low framerate, it's simply no fun. The gameplay concept does therefore not transit in great gameplay, which would probably happen at a high, consistent framerate.

On the other hand, a shit gameplay concept will still be shit at 60FPS. I never claimed that 60FPS is a guarantee for great gameplay and you are really try too hard to put this opinion in my mouth to make me look bad.

If you still don't get my point there is nothing I can say to explain it to you anymore. Although I do think it's not that hard to grasp.

You're still saying 60fps is required to have good/great gameplay & w/o it...the game sucks.

 

[Coolbgdog12]

Let me use other words so maybe you understand it. A game can have great gameplay in concept, as long as this concept is hindered by an unstable, low framerate, it's simply no fun. The gameplay concept does therefore not transit in great gameplay, which would probably happen at a high, consistent framerate.

On the other hand, a shit gameplay concept will still be shit at 60FPS. I never claimed that 60FPS is a guarantee for great gameplay and you are really try too hard to put this opinion in my mouth to make me look bad.

If you still don't get my point there is nothing I can say to explain it to you anymore. Although I do think it's not that hard to grasp.

In your opinion of course.

 

[nib95]

PlayStation Europe ‏@PlayStationEU 59s
We've got some special #DRIVECLUB videos this week too, something a bit different! If you're at #PlayStationGC keep an eye out

PlayStation Europe ‏@PlayStationEU 3m
Yet more exclusive photos! Check out this Mercedes getting readied for a special #DRIVECLUB video: #PlayStationGC

PlayStation Europe ‏@PlayStationEU 3m
And here's another exclusive photo of the #DRIVECLUB video behind the scenes! Lots more to come #PlayStationGC

I've got a video on one of my old phones when my mates and I rented a BMW 3 series for use around Germany on the autobahn. We were doing around 130mph (the max it could go) when a Mercedes SLS pulled up beside us. We moved over to the middle lane, I pulled down the window and started taking DSLR snaps of the supercar. He actually circled around our car with his, and happily posed for shots, then.....(again, bare in mind we were already doing 130mph), in a sudden jolt he shot off quicker than you could count to 3. Blitzed off in to the distance so quickly he became a spec in our horizon in next to no time at all. Was pretty damn impressive.

 

[kaching]

I never claimed that 60FPS is a guarantee for great gameplay

Yes, but you also said it was the only way to achieve great gameplay. Therefore, every game with "great gameplay" = 60fps. Everything else isn't even good/fair/poor apparently - it's just "conceptual" now.

I'm not the one putting these words in your mouth.

 

[Thrakier]

You're still saying 60fps is required to have good/great gameplay & w/o it...the game sucks.

Yes, but you also said it was the only way to achieve great gameplay. Therefore, every game with "great gameplay" = 60fps. Everything else isn't even good/fair/poor apparently - it's just "conceptual" now.

I'm not the one putting these words in your mouth.

Well, yeah, that's what I'm saying. Now you got it right.
But that's not the same as stating 60FPS equals great gameplay. Completly different story.

To make gameplay really great and let it shine, a high and consistent framerate is needed. With a low and inconsistent framerate, the gameplay is massively hindered and hold back (see TLOU, Tomb Raider, Sleeping Dogs and many other games on console). Framerates impact on quality of interaction is massive, to say the least. And it's also the most immersion breaking factor for me. Devs strife to make videogames more realistic (f.e. realistic lighting etc.) and somehow develop a consistent interpretation of the real world into a digital enviroment (see TLOU again). And to achieve that they happily shit on the one thing that is ALWAYS consistent and smooth in the real world - the way your eyes percept your surroundings, the "real world FPS". How can a world be believeable when it's stuttering in front of you? Those are the moments there you clearly notice: This is an artificial, non existant, non believable world.

 

[ChronotriggerJM]

Names please or are you talking out of your arse?

It's no different than me saying I swear most of the people here have made day/night transitions out to be a huge deal because that's all DC has going for it over Forza.

But like the 60FPS evangelists, there are those of us who value Day and Night cycles much more than a bump from Good framerate to Great framerate. One of them fundamentally alters the game, the other doesn't.

 

[Kuro]

Well, yeah, that's what I'm saying. Now you got it right.
But that's not the same as stating 60FPS equals great gameplay. Completly different story.

To make gameplay really great and let it shine, a high and consistent framerate is needed. With a low and inconsistent framerate, the gameplay is massively hindered and hold back (see TLOU, Tomb Raider, Sleeping Dogs and many other games on console). Framerates impact on quality of interaction is massive, to say the least. And it's also the most immersion breaking factor for me. Devs strife to make videogames more realistic (f.e. realistic lighting etc.) and somehow develop a consistent interpretation of the real world into a digital enviroment (see TLOU again). And to achieve that they happily shit on the one thing that is ALWAYS consistent and smooth in the real world - the way your eyes percept your surroundings, the "real world FPS". How can a world be believeable when it's stuttering in front of you? Those are the moments there you clearly notice: This is an artificial, non existant, non believable world.

Framerate was never an issue when it came to gameplay in TLOU. It really only took hits in very large open areas where you would just be walking normally instead of engaging in any combat.

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

But like the 60FPS evangelists, there are those of us who value Day and Night cycles much more than a bump from Good framerate to Great framerate. One of them fundamentally alters the game, the other doesn't.

You say it alters the game, what if it looks too dark at night, going to bump up the brightness and contrast? What about playing multiplayer online, how do you know everybody else isn't gaining an advantage by doing so?

I used to think Horizon's night racing was worthless because it hardly reduced visibility but it makes sense.

 

[kaching]

Well, yeah, that's what I'm saying. Now you got it right.
But that's not the same as stating 60FPS equals great gameplay. Completly different story.

Given how much significance you have put on 60fps throughout this discussion, I don't see how it's a "completely different story". No game can be "great" if it doesn't have 60fps. You give no other game design decision anywhere close to that amount of weight. So, for all intents and purposes, 60fps = great gameplay. A QTE-fest running @ 60fps has a better chance of being "great" than a game with much deeper, well-designed controls and more challenging level design, but running at 30fps, based on your criteria. Specifically, the QTE-fest at least has _a_ chance, while the game with much better gameplay mechanics has no chance at all.

To make gameplay really great and let it shine, a high and consistent framerate is needed. With a low and inconsistent framerate, the gameplay is massively hindered and hold back (see TLOU, Tomb Raider, Sleeping Dogs and many other games on console). Framerates impact on quality of interaction is massive, to say the least. And it's also the most immersion breaking factor for me. Devs strife to make videogames more realistic (f.e. realistic lighting etc.) and somehow develop a consistent interpretation of the real world into a digital enviroment (see TLOU again). And to achieve that they happily shit on the one thing that is ALWAYS consistent and smooth in the real world - the way your eyes percept your surroundings, the "real world FPS". How can a world be believeable when it's stuttering in front of you? Those are the moments there you clearly notice: This is an artificial, non existant, non believable world.

Sorry, not buying what you're selling here. My ability to be immersed in a game somehow manages to overlook things like the controller in my hand which offers me only very restricted interactive capabilities over a world portrayed on a flat 2d screen that's much lower res than the real world with an audio environment depicted at best with 7 sources. So I think I can take differing framerates in stride.

Edit: Not to mention, whether it's 30 fps or 60 fps, it's still just a slideshow and that certainly isn't how I perceive the "ALWAYS consistent and smooth" real world.

 

[ChronotriggerJM]

You say it alters the game, what if it looks too dark at night, going to bump up the brightness and contrast? What about playing multiplayer online, how do you know everybody else isn't gaining an advantage by doing so?

I used to think Horizon's night racing was worthless because it hardly reduced visibility but it makes sense.

I'd say the purpose of Drive club is to race against friends and such, still makes it a handicap regardless, now you have to race with a screen being super ugly I'd still say it's a feature that shouldn't be omitted in any "next gen" racing game. I don't know if their vision will pan out how they're hoping, but they're talking about dynamic lighting with dynamic cloud cover and huge draw distances. The ability to prevent the stages from getting super stale it what I need.

 

[Shaneus]

I've got a video on one of my old phones when my mates and I rented a BMW 3 series for use around Germany on the autobahn. We were doing around 130mph (the max it could go) when a Mercedes SLS pulled up beside us. We moved over to the middle lane, I pulled down the window and started taking DSLR snaps of the supercar. He actually circled around our car with his, and happily posed for shots, then.....(again, bare in mind we were already doing 130mph), in a sudden jolt he shot off quicker than you could count to 3. Blitzed off in to the distance so quickly he became a spec in our horizon in next to no time at all. Was pretty damn impressive.

I need to see those photos.

 

[Mobius 1]

I've got a video on one of my old phones when my mates and I rented a BMW 3 series for use around Germany on the autobahn. We were doing around 130mph (the max it could go) when a Mercedes SLS pulled up beside us. We moved over to the middle lane, I pulled down the window and started taking DSLR snaps of the supercar. He actually circled around our car with his, and happily posed for shots, then.....(again, bare in mind we were already doing 130mph), in a sudden jolt he shot off quicker than you could count to 3. Blitzed off in to the distance so quickly he became a spec in our horizon in next to no time at all. Was pretty damn impressive.

I see a white one almost everyday on my way back from work. It makes me feel I'm driving a horse cart

 

[farisr]

You say it alters the game, what if it looks too dark at night, going to bump up the brightness and contrast? What about playing multiplayer online, how do you know everybody else isn't gaining an advantage by doing so?

Brightness/contrast can be adjusted to a certain degree, if the game is rendering those details, they will be there (for everyone who owns the game). Nobody is at an advantage/disadvantage unless their display is naturally dark and has crappy brightness/contrast/optimization and not capable of displaying the details of the game.

But if we're gonna take that into account, then we can get into a whole other argument about display lag as well then (which has nothing to do with brightness and contrast/day night cycles, but may very well bring framerate into the dicussion and which framerate would cause more of a disadvantage in this situation)

I'm only saying it's possible to downplay the importance of a feature be it weather or framerate, Forza should have attempted day-night, the effects are gorgeous but I don't believe it would add anything more than that.

GT5 already proved to me the importance of a dynamic lighting/day night cycle and it's not just about effects/gorgeousnessness. Makes the game and tracks so much more replayable. Forza tracks got old... fast.

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

I'd say the purpose of Drive club is to race against friends and such, still makes it a handicap regardless, now you have to race with a screen being super ugly I'd still say it's a feature that shouldn't be omitted in any "next gen" racing game. I don't know if their vision will pan out how they're hoping, but they're talking about dynamic lighting with dynamic cloud cover and huge draw distances. The ability to prevent the stages from getting super stale it what I need.

I'm only saying it's possible to downplay the importance of a feature be it weather or framerate, Forza should have attempted day-night, the effects are gorgeous but I don't believe it would add anything more than that.

Had T10 achieved it at 60fps certain members would only find another chink in the armour to get overexcited about.

In the absence of a next gen GT it's unfortunate that console warriors have latched onto DC and drawn the game into a pissing match. It's as dumb as comparing Horizon to GT, they are at opposite ends of the genre with different goals and audiences.

Edit: (above) you say the tracks get old, I still play them weekly. GT doesn't get played anymore because I find Forza a more authentic drive with no framerate drops or tearing.

 

[Aspiring]

I had a dream last night about this game and how incredible it was at Gamescom. I need it in my veins! I hope they show it updated in their conference.

 

[Thrakier]

Framerate was never an issue when it came to gameplay in TLOU. It really only took hits in very large open areas where you would just be walking normally instead of engaging in any combat.

This is not true at all. Check the DF analysis.

Given how much significance you have put on 60fps throughout this discussion, I don't see how it's a "completely different story". No game can be "great" if it doesn't have 60fps. You give no other game design decision anywhere close to that amount of weight. So, for all intents and purposes, 60fps = great gameplay. A QTE-fest running @ 60fps has a better chance of being "great" than a game with much deeper, well-designed controls and more challenging level design, but running at 30fps, based on your criteria. Specifically, the QTE-fest at least has _a_ chance, while the game with much better gameplay mechanics has no chance at all.

You can't be serious. I don't believe it that you still suggest that I said 60FPS equals great gameplay. Can't you see the difference between the statement "on a 60FPS foundation great gameplay can be build" and "if you get to 60FPS your gameplay is automatically great"? Of course you can see that, I guess you are just trolling? Everyone with two braincells does understand that difference. There are more than enough games at 60FPS with shit gameplay, just considering that PC basically runs all games at 60FPS, which doesn't make a shit game great. It doesn't work that way but it works the other way around. A bad framerate can make an otherwise great game shit/unenjoyable. Enough now, you understand exactly what I'm trying to say, there is no chance in hell you still get it wrong. You are just trying to insist on your first wrong statement because of internet reasons.

Sorry, not buying what you're selling here. My ability to be immersed in a game somehow manages to overlook things like the controller in my hand which offers me only very restricted interactive capabilities over a world portrayed on a flat 2d screen that's much lower res than the real world with an audio environment depicted at best with 7 sources. So I think I can take differing framerates in stride.

Edit: Not to mention, whether it's 30 fps or 60 fps, it's still just a slideshow and that certainly isn't how I perceive the "ALWAYS consistent and smooth" real world.

I don't give a shit if you are "buying". There is nothing to buy for you. For me, it's the most immersion breaking factor - it's like the fourth wall which is breaking. It doesn't matter if a game is 2d or 3d or uses a lot of polygons or it doesn't. I get totally immersed in Hotline Miami. Why? Because it's consistent. The world I'm interacting with and I'm looking into is believable. It's like the dev wanted it to be. Low Framerate and framerate inconsistencey however are artificial limitations, ones which clearly don't belong there (except the use of SlowMo when it's needed, which is fine).

In some games you can artifical break the framerate by doing certain things - I once read a dev statement who claimed that people found framerate dips to be "satisfying" because they essentially achieved something great/massive which brought the games framerate down. They beat the game itself, in a way. This is exactly what I'm talking about - it's interacting with the game on another basis, outside of the gameworld, in a more technical manner. It's taking you outside of the game.

But I was wrong regarding 60FPS being the most important factor, because there is one more thing which is more important than a high framerate: framerate consistency. 60FPS is worth nothing if it's not 60FPS 99,9% of the time.

 

[demolitio]

It's pretty sad when the main reason I'm excited for more DC news is just so this thread can turn the page on the nonstop framerate arguments and get back to the game at hand. It's not like anyone here changed anyone else's minds about whether or not 60FPS is needed or vice versa.

 

[KennyLinder]

20/08/2013
http://www.edge-online.com/features...ps4-launch-racer-with-some-tough-competition/

Evolution Studios kicked off the current generation of PlayStation hardware with MotorStorm, comfortably setting a new visual benchmark in the process. DriveClub isn’t quite there yet – the build we’ve played was only 35 per cent complete, which seems a little on the low side for a PS4 launch game – but the pleasant, although hardly astonishing, landscape of the fictional Kinloch track we tried offers long draw distances and some occasionally eyecatching lighting.

It whips past the windscreen at a decent enough lick – although not, in its current state, at the target 60fps. Tree and foliage models have a whiff of placeholder about them, while tyre smoke isn’t quite the next-gen volumetric spectacle we’d hoped for. The cars look great, of course, but you’ll be hard-pressed to notice the fully modelled headlight lenses out on track. There have been few better showcases for new hardware than racing games, and it says much that Gran Turismo 6, running on the seven-year-old PS3, currently looks sharper than Evolution’s demo build. A fair chunk of that remaining 65 per cent of development is presumably set aside for visual improvements.

Still, the handling model seems to be all there. The four cars we’ve tried – including the Pagani Huayra and Hennessey Venom – display distinct, unruly personalities. The game’s most powerful cars need to be coaxed rather than hurried to full acceleration for fear of losing traction, and we found ourselves wrestling with torque steer in the Venom on straights. The DualShock 4’s much-improved sticks make it easy to make small adjustments to your line with none of their predecessors’ skittering flimsiness. But the motion-control option, predictably enough, doesn’t fare quite so well. Overall it’s a weighty, detailed handling model – but, just like MotorStorm, one that trades realism for immediate thrills. It’s at odds with Evolution’s talk of replicating the supercar ownership experience, but plays to the strengths of the game’s team ethos.



Our focus quickly shifts to the challenges found in every event: Overdrives and Face-Offs. The former can be performed anywhere on the track and includes maintaining high speed for as long as you can, perhaps, or putting in a clean drive for a full split. Face-Offs, meanwhile, occur at set points on the track marked by colour-coded zones, which invites fond comparisons with OutRun 2’s Heart Attack Mode. They offer similar challenges to Overdrives, but your performance is compared with a racer in an opposing club. Doing either earns Fame, which feeds into your club’s reputation.

While being goaded into drifting through a corner may prove a minor irritation for drivers with their eye on a fast run, ignoring challenges and putting in a sterling lap time will still bring in Fame. If you do take up every challenge thrown at you, however, the need to constantly adjust your driving style makes for a pleasingly varied challenge. Crucially, the setup means every driver can contribute to their club’s success, no matter their skill level.

The current build doesn’t feature any realtime multiplayer, but it does show off the asynchronous aspects of DriveClub: our demo was played on a network of eight systems, with players able to drop in and out without actually racing against each other. Tracks are filled with ghosts of other drivers’ runs, all accompanied by a photo of the competitor in question displayed next to your own at the bottom of the screen whenever you enter a Face-Off. It provides the sense of heightened competition that Criterion’s Autolog so successfully created. It’s hectic stuff, even when you’re out on the tarmac alone, the sense of camaraderie from seeing your club’s standings ebb and flow between races encouraging you to head back in for another shot. It might prove enough to distinguish the game from its competitors, but right now DriveClub feels a little lost in a field of extremely capable opponents.

DriveClub doesn’t live up to Evolution’s lofty promises yet, but the studio has turned around a less-than-spectacular early showing in the past, with MotorStorm: Apocalypse. But the MotorStorm series benefits from a brand of drama that goes some way towards distracting from its lack of polish, and this is a shield behind which DriveClub can’t hide. The game’s most important aspects – its vehicle handling and multiplayer integration – already feel confident, though, and the studio’s track record suggests that it can take this to a photo finish.


- Something doesn't add up here. Just noticed it said 35% again, but it was posted this morning....

 

[Shaneus]

Nah, fuck that. Now I just want them to do 30fps to spite all the twats in this thread who don't get out of bed to play a game at less than 60fps.

 

[chubigans]

Gross, old E3 build impressions. Bring on the new GamesCom build!

 

[nib95]

Nah, fuck that. Now I just want them to do 30fps to spite all the twats in this thread who don't get out of bed to play a game at less than 60fps.

This seriously made me

 

[KennyLinder]

Gross, old E3 build impressions. Bring on the new GamesCom build!

Yeah, why the fuck are Edge posting old articles with a new date.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Pre-order pack trailers

McLaren
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVDw12pn75Y

Meceredes SLS AMG
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GafoIbvfN0I

RUF
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHF-xV3juZU

 

[Chamber]

Yeah, why the fuck are Edge posting old articles with a new date.

Seems like Evo had a bunch of journos come out to play the old build. Odd to have those impressions out there right before Gamescom.

 

[ethomaz]

60fps is a surprise :-D

 

[amar212]

Pre-order pack trailers

I hate pre-order packs.

And later today we will learn about few new ones that I will hate even more with absolute disgust.

 

[Shaneus]

Pre-order pack trailers

McLaren
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVDw12pn75Y

Meceredes SLS AMG
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GafoIbvfN0I

RUF
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHF-xV3juZU

Sweet. So RUF is with any preorder and the other two retailer-specific. Which I'm somewhat fine with, because out of those three the RUF is the one that I'd want.

But damnit, if the only way to get all three is to do multiple preorders for physical games, so be it. Straight into my veins.

I hate pre-order packs.

And later today we will learn about few new ones that I will hate even more with absolute disgust.

This is true. But you and I know that we'll have another chance to get them one way or the other down the line (not that it makes the practise any more justifiable).

 

[SolidSnakex]

I hate pre-order packs.

And later today we will learn about few new ones that I will hate even more with absolute disgust.

I don't really mind when they're really nothing more than livery edits (which is what this seems to be) or a combination of a livery edit and special tuning (like GT5).

 

[VanWinkle]

60fps is a surprise :-D

Where are you hearing that? Or are you talking about how they want to get the game to 60fps?

 

[c0de]

60fps is a surprise :-D

More like a dream...

 

[sometimes]

DRIVECLUB: You'll be able to see & play #‎DRIVECLUB at #GamesCom - it's a new demo with a new challenge, new track and new cars! http://t.co/AHCjpeijB9

https://twitter.com/driveclub/status/369824843920719872

 

[captive]

holy crap 30fps vs 60fps is serious business.

I wonder what some of you think of 24p movies? Or do you all turn on that annoying 120hz motion smoothing crap that makes me want to hurl.


If its not 60fps don't but it if it upsets you that much, vote with your dollar.

 

[SolidSnakex]

DRIVECLUB: You'll be able to see & play #‎DRIVECLUB at #GamesCom - it's a new demo with a new challenge, new track and new cars! http://t.co/AHCjpeijB9

https://twitter.com/driveclub/status/369824843920719872

Can anyone make out what the lead car is?

 

[kaching]

You can't be serious. I don't believe it that you still suggest that I said 60FPS equals great gameplay. Can't you see the difference between the statement "on a 60FPS foundation great gameplay can be build" and "if you get to 60FPS your gameplay is automatically great"? Of course you can see that, I guess you are just trolling? Everyone with two braincells does understand that difference. There are more than enough games at 60FPS with shit gameplay, just considering that PC basically runs all games at 60FPS, which doesn't make a shit game great. It doesn't work that way but it works the other way around. A bad framerate can make an otherwise great game shit/unenjoyable. Enough now, you understand exactly what I'm trying to say, there is no chance in hell you still get it wrong. You are just trying to insist on your first wrong statement because of internet reasons.

Alright, let's talk "internet reasons". It's "internet reasons" that you've been pushing the importance of 60 fps gameplay to make it seem so fundamentally inseparable from great gameplay, to try to browbeat everyone into seeing it the same way as you. Classic squeaky wheel routine. You called it the "very foundation of great gameplay" where no game can be great without 60 fps and have since gone on to suggest that anything else is merely conceptual gameplay, unfinished as it were. The implied consequence of such a heavy-handed stance, whether you're willing to admit it or not, logically leads to a point where 60 fps essentially is synonymous with achieving great gameplay for developers. Why? Because you're not evaluating the quality of their titles in a holistic manner and are instead gating quality on one very specific factor, not even engaging a full evaluation of game quality unless that one factor qualifies. Therefore, any dev that would want to achieve "great gameplay" by your criteria must start by deciding to make a 60 fps game first, instead of simply deciding what game they actually *want* to make.

 

[Thrakier]

The implied consequence of such a heavy-handed stance, whether you're willing to admit it or not, logically leads to a point where 60 fps essentially is synonymous with achieving great gameplay for developers. Why? Because you're not evaluating the quality of their titles in a holistic manner and are instead gating quality on one very specific factor, not even engaging a full evaluation of game quality unless that one factor qualifies.

This is one of the most hilarious conclusions I've ever witnessed. It's like bro-science, just less awesome. The funny thing is, that you directly contradict the paragraph above in your last sentence.

Therefore, any dev that would want to achieve "great gameplay" by your criteria must start by deciding to make a 60 fps game first, instead of simply deciding what game they actually *want* to make.

This is correct and exactly what I said. "Any dev that would want to achieve" implies that they DID NOT achieve it so far and that it's still OPEN if and how they will achieve it AFTER they decided pro 60FPS. Therefore, 60FPS can not equal great gameplay - it's merely a basis from which a dev can go on. This is exactly what I said and what I intended to say.

holy crap 30fps vs 60fps is serious business.

I wonder what some of you think of 24p movies? Or do you all turn on that annoying 120hz motion smoothing crap that makes me want to hurl.


If its not 60fps don't but it if it upsets you that much, vote with your dollar.

You just compared movies to games. See, that's what wrong with most of 30FPS fans.

 

[90TilInfinity]

Can anyone make out what the lead car is?

Aston Martin Zagato, I think.

 

[~~Hasan~~]

Pre-order pack trailers

McLaren
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVDw12pn75Y

Meceredes SLS AMG
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GafoIbvfN0I

RUF
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHF-xV3juZU

man that SLS AMG looks stunning

 

[jett]

They need to showcase one of their long point-to-point races.

 

[farisr]

Yeah, why the fuck are Edge posting old articles with a new date.

Clicks. Gamescom time, "new" game info is highly sought after online.

 

[Shaneus]

You just compared movies to games. See, that's what wrong with most of 30FPS fans.

So if you can't feel that...imagine you watch a movie and every 10 seconds the movie skips 2 seconds back. You can still watch the movie, the content is probably still great if it's a good one...BUT...would you enjoy it? Of course you will say "yes" now, just to proof a point, but well, I am not able to.

Point proofen.

 

[ethomaz]

Nothing about the new demo in Gamescom yet?