IncandescentPrecept
Banned
According to a report released today by the IDC:
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Sony: Devs typically making more money on PS Vita than mobile
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I think he's talking about PSN games and minis.
I believe it. Vita fans are pretty ravenous, even if there aren't many of them yet. This price drop should start changing that. Same price as the 3ds XL now, and even though the library isn't as strong, it's hard to argue that the hardware isn't a way better value.
DiscoJer
Member
I think the mid range games, something like Dragon Fantasy are likely selling better on Vita than mobile.
For instance, that has 110 ratings on the Play store, 234 on iOS and 360 on the Vita store (In just NA). (While I don't think the ratings are necessarily a good indicator of sales, that really isn't a lot of ratings on iOS or Android compared to popular games)
Of course, it's also $9.99 on the Vita and $7.99 for mobile.
OTOH, what mobile offers, to the company that gets lucky, is large piles of money.
I'm not talking about games that are deliberately designed to bring in mega-cash, like Puzzle and Dragons or Candy Crush or Clash of Clans. But something like say, Fruit Ninja.
For instance, that has 110 ratings on the Play store, 234 on iOS and 360 on the Vita store (In just NA). (While I don't think the ratings are necessarily a good indicator of sales, that really isn't a lot of ratings on iOS or Android compared to popular games)
Of course, it's also $9.99 on the Vita and $7.99 for mobile.
OTOH, what mobile offers, to the company that gets lucky, is large piles of money.
I'm not talking about games that are deliberately designed to bring in mega-cash, like Puzzle and Dragons or Candy Crush or Clash of Clans. But something like say, Fruit Ninja.
What phone ya got?
michaelius
Banned
According to a report released today by the IDC:
And now divide the handheld part by few hundreds of games released each year versus few hundreds of thousands each year on ios/android.
Yeah, I remember most of the gen 7 ones hanging around 8. 10 is very good!
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
The sheer volume of titles on smartphones is a huge problem for anyone looking to explore that market, as are the regular seasonal discounts that make it very difficult to judge a good timeframe to launch in.
It is a lottery because no matter how good your product is, if the mass-market isn't aware of its existence you'll never get the volume sales to cover the minimal revenue per-unit you are likely to be forced into adopting due to competition/expectation.
It is a lottery because no matter how good your product is, if the mass-market isn't aware of its existence you'll never get the volume sales to cover the minimal revenue per-unit you are likely to be forced into adopting due to competition/expectation.
Ding ding ding. Glad to see some gaffers still understand math and averages.
That said actual number would be very interesting to look at, for both ends of the spectrum. Also, say you develop on ios, doesn't apple take like 30%? Does Sony do the same?
This PR thing is getting atrocious, it needs to stop.
People defending microtransactions, people who previously shitted on some AAA game from other company because it did not show one or another effect then glorying some or another shitty game, pretending get Vita owners excited or sell Vita consoles with Football Manager... now this when all handheld developers would love to have Candy Crush Saga or Puzzle & Dragons revenues.
Oh please, stop.
Blackthorn
"hello?" "this is vagina"
Remember when developers goldrushed Facebook gaming? That turned out great.
iOS/Android may have ludicrous potential install bases, but on a handheld (or any console) every owner is guaranteed to play games as it's the purpose of the device. It's a smaller pool, but one that you're far more visible to.
Vita's problem is its competition in the 3DS, which is more attractive to much of the "gamer" demographic. Phones, for now, are an entirely different sector.
iOS/Android may have ludicrous potential install bases, but on a handheld (or any console) every owner is guaranteed to play games as it's the purpose of the device. It's a smaller pool, but one that you're far more visible to.
Vita's problem is its competition in the 3DS, which is more attractive to much of the "gamer" demographic. Phones, for now, are an entirely different sector.
I have never seen an indie game that was $40, the most expensive are $15 which is rare, and the average is $10, some being even less.
How many mobile devices are there compared to the 5 million or so Vitas?
Everyone can cherry pick examples. I'm sure all the small devs currently buried in the iOS store would love to sell 2m of their game at £30 a go like Animal Crossing too rather than waiting for lightning to strike. Perhaps the truth lies somewhere in the middle- different approaches work better for different devs and different games, doing the research is vital.
Once a dev on iOS gets big, it's great to be there- the press and the customers start following you and suddenly everyone is doing your marketing for you. However, for a small start-up, you are far more visable on dedicated handhelds where a hungry audience used to actually paying for games is scouring a store a thousand times smaller for new material, and they don't have to enter a specific search term to have a chance of stumbling across your game. Take Gunman Clive or Steamworld Dig on the 3DS eshop for example. They had front page marketing on the eshop for over a week, are easily visable now, had plenty of press coverage and reviews, dedicated threads on Gaf etc, how much of that would they have had if they were only mobile games?
FTP stuff works better on mobile where you can fish for whales amongst the huge user base. If you want to make a classic-style game (and many developers are of an age where thy want to make the same games they grew up on), you'll get a warmer reception on the handhelds that also target that market.
Triggerhappytel
Member
I believe this. While there won't be any devs on Vita experiencing the kind of success of Rovio or Zeptolab, it's a less crowded marketplace and you're advertising your game to a smaller audience much more likely to spend money. The wider choice on iOS and Google Play probably counts against it for a lot of smaller devs, as well as the race to the bottom in terms of cost. Probably 99% of things downloaded on smartphones and tablets are free or a dollar.
Meatyhooks
Neo Member
While I can't speak to the legitimacy of the claim to do know that I do know that game downloades per vita is very high.
sechsterangriff
Member
Is it so hard to believe? It's a dedicate games machine with a mostly hardcore audience that buys many games. The competition in the Smartphone/Tablet space is insane and it's way harder to stand-out in the crowd. While with the Vita your game has the chance to be "the new game of the week".
It's not something far-fetched.
Sintoid
Member
The only game I wanted to buy on a mobile device is Ghosts'n Goblins Golden Knight - A brand new GnG, I can't resist to play it I thought... Cheap graphics, ugly controls and gameplay made simplier just because of ugly controls... I asked myself why I have to be happy having bought such a piece of crap with just a couple of bucks when I can be completely satisfied with 12 and Guacamelee?
If Vita manage to create a vast 10 bucks/good value games there could be a future for this handheld...
If Vita manage to create a vast 10 bucks/good value games there could be a future for this handheld...
Claude Kenni
Member
I understand that, but the quote says "More developers make more money on average on Vita than they do on mobile."
The issue is the "more developers" part, with that phrasing the claim is quite hard to understand and is almost certainly untrue.
And we should be careful comparing these unconfirmed attach rates, as far as I'm aware the Vita is one of if not the first system that started including digital titles in that statistic.
To all the guys doubting this, just look at the new games releases on android vs vita. On vita, you get at update on tuesday, and there are at most 5 releases a week. Release a vita game on the platform, your game will be on the front page the entire week, possibly even more, and very near the top of the list of games where your visibility is highest.
On android, you can expect dozens, if not hundreds of games per week, updated on a more frequent basis. Release a game now, and by the next update, you're gone, nobody will see your game again.
On android, you can expect dozens, if not hundreds of games per week, updated on a more frequent basis. Release a game now, and by the next update, you're gone, nobody will see your game again.
Sleeplessnights
Banned
Captain Tuttle
Member
showmethereceipts.gif
Canis lupus
Member
Because every mobile dev makes as much money as the best earning devs!
When did he lie?
Haunted
Member
It's obviously true if you stop and think about it for a second.
The math is explained in many posts in this thread. Thousands of mobile devs who make pretty much nothing, throwing more and more shit on the store to hopefully strike gold with one.
If you'd compare the top 5% of developers it'd be another question, the mobile lottery winners would skew this statistic in their favour hard. But with the thousands of unsuccessful deadweights weighing their average down, it's easy to see how this particular comparison would favour the Vita.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
Wishful thinking doesn't seem to be some sort math operation I'm aware of. Does that come before or after division?
Glass Rebel
Member
I believe it, SmokyDave is very happy with his Vita.
Raonak
Banned
makes sense honestly, mobile markets are completely flooded to the point that it's a lottery interms of how successful your game will be. You will get no exposure unless you're winning to market a lot. due to the vast amount of games constantly coming in.
Very few games mobile games become the next big thing, it's like winning the lottery. but if you do, then you reach a level of success that no other platform can ever hope to achieve.
Very few games mobile games become the next big thing, it's like winning the lottery. but if you do, then you reach a level of success that no other platform can ever hope to achieve.
clay_ghost
Member
What's not to believe ? LOL there is a reason why vita still have so many indie games games support.
Every major release on the system?
chickdigger802
Banned
dont know... seems like most vita indie stuff (not including psm garbage) seem to first appear on mobile or pc.
can't think of many games that are vita first.
IncandescentPrecept
Banned
Non-indie, non-port Vita game coming?
I think the point is that the vita business model (for a developer) is much lower risk.
You don't have the (incredibly tiny) chance of a runaway success - but your chances of at least breaking even are dramatically higher.
Rant; It's a fools game to use two or three examples to demonstrate the success of a platform - when that platform has over 1 million competing products. It's dishonest.
an interesting aside:
http://venturebeat.com/2013/03/14/whales-and-why-social-gamers-are-just-gamers/
But anyway. I'm happy developers find success on vita, or mobile. I just think people need to be more realistic about the incredible level of risk associated with mobile development.
You don't have the (incredibly tiny) chance of a runaway success - but your chances of at least breaking even are dramatically higher.
Rant; It's a fools game to use two or three examples to demonstrate the success of a platform - when that platform has over 1 million competing products. It's dishonest.
an interesting aside:
http://venturebeat.com/2013/03/14/whales-and-why-social-gamers-are-just-gamers/
But anyway. I'm happy developers find success on vita, or mobile. I just think people need to be more realistic about the incredible level of risk associated with mobile development.
There's like a hundred of really shitty, obscure mobile games being released every week. Of course you will average more sales when your platform only have a handful of indie games and they are mostly high profile (for indie standards).
You could argue that means lottery, however, the mobile consumer is getting more and more well informed about quality releases, as some high profile indie games sales show (Bastion, Limbo, Minecraft, etc).
You could argue that means lottery, however, the mobile consumer is getting more and more well informed about quality releases, as some high profile indie games sales show (Bastion, Limbo, Minecraft, etc).
Yeah it's a big difference. I don't think there's much of a comparison to be made in the end. The types of games coming to PSN are very different than what's coming to phones. I mean, do you really want to play Guacameele on a phone?
The take away from this whole thing is that even though the Vita is a smaller pie, your chance of getting a decent slice is probably better than it is on iOS or android. That makes sense to me any way you cut it.
Cornbread78
Member
I've spent waaayy too much money this past year on PSN for my VITA and haven't downloaded a single paid game on mobile or iOS, or paid for 1 microtransaction at all.
crazygambit
Member
Plus he's right in that if you buy a Vita, you want to buy games for it. I literally can't count the games I've bought already. Suffice it to say a 32GB card is not nearly enough. Oh and I've bought only 1 retail game.
phosphor112
Banned
Isn't it like 12-14 or something? I personally have like... 35 games.
michaelius
Banned
I'd say it's not only Vita phenomenon.
Situation was very similar with PSN minis going by laughting jackal comments
And situation with 3DS is probably similar too.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
I really hope the Vita starts selling again because it seems like such a cool device. The price drop should help a little, not sure if it will have any sustain though. I'd get one if it was $199 including an 8gb mem card. Maybe there will be a deal for Black Friday like that.
Mr_Antimatter
Member
Obviously, yes. For every hit on iOS or android there are thousands of games that make little to nothing. With hundreds of thousands of apps per year, most are very obscure.
Overall, the market makes money, but individuals may not, by average.
By comparison, Vita games present less competition, and vita owners will buy anything good to levels enough to make a profit. Scope your game right, and budget for a few tens of thousands of sales, and you can make nice money.
Overall, the market makes money, but individuals may not, by average.
By comparison, Vita games present less competition, and vita owners will buy anything good to levels enough to make a profit. Scope your game right, and budget for a few tens of thousands of sales, and you can make nice money.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
Pretty much. I was actually excited by the E3 and Gamescom indie showing for the platform. Vita is more indie machine than Ouya.
On the low end most likely true, but on the top end not so much.
I think it is a good business strategy for some new devs to go to Vita, get buzz on the Vita (which is much easier than on mobile) and then switch to mobile. That way your press coverage in the mobile space will be much better.
But I am not sure whether the Vita business is good enough for a developer to sustain themselves.
I think it is a good business strategy for some new devs to go to Vita, get buzz on the Vita (which is much easier than on mobile) and then switch to mobile. That way your press coverage in the mobile space will be much better.
But I am not sure whether the Vita business is good enough for a developer to sustain themselves.