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[Patryn]

Two years ago, Batwoman's book was just starting and the relationship hadn't developed yet. This wasn't about making a statement; it was a natural progression for the characters that had developed over 20+ issues of story.

The problem is that I think DC doesn't really care about a 20-issue story. The nature of the superhero genre probably means that DC likes to think that they're looking out for what happens 500 issues down the line. The trend over the past 10 years has been to "widen" the opportunities, which means preventing any marriages between characters. They see this as enabling writers to introduce new love interests and storylines that they wouldn't be able to do otherwise. See also:

I dunno if DC just has an aversion to gay marriage, or if they just don't want anything life-changing [and thus, interesting] to happen to their characters. Ever.

Right now, they really love the whole status quo thing. I kind of like continuity, but at times it can be a shackle. I'm guessing that DC watched what happened when Spider-man's marriage disappeared, and when Superman was rebooted so he and Lois weren't married anymore, and they wanted to avoid that if at all possible.

So the real issue isn't that DC is anti-gay, it's that DC wants to impose heavy shackles on its writers so that when they leave the book, things are almost exactly in the same place they found them. They want their titles to constantly be running in place. They may take one step forward, but they will inevitably take one step back and end back on GO.

 

[barrbarr]

Wait so DC has allowed male gay characters to marry? Have they not allowed female gay characters to marry? If they have allowed a male to marry a male, but not a female to marry a female, to me that doesn't sound homophobic, instead this sounds sexist.

 

[Jamie OD]

Wait so DC has allowed male gay characters to marry? Have they not allowed female gay characters to marry? If they have allowed a male to marry a male, but not a female to marry a female, to me that doesn't sound homophobic, instead this sounds sexist.

The male gay marriage never happened.

Spoiler

Alan Scott asks his boyfriend to marry him during a train ride. The train derails almost immediately after he proposes and his new fiancée dies in the crash.

 

[Patryn]

The male gay marriage never happened.

Spoiler

Alan Scott asks his boyfriend to marry him during a train ride. The train derails almost immediately after he proposes and his new fiancée dies in the crash.

I think he's talking about Apollo and the Midnighter.

 

[Old Lace]

Current Batwoman has been pretty good. It's the art that really sold it, though, more so than the story. Art has been God tier.

I just googled Batwoman and the art is amazing.

 

[WanderingWind]

I just googled Batwoman and the art is amazing.

The writing is damn good too.

 

[Pau]

Greg Rucka abruptly left this book too. Seems to be a target for interference.

He left it because of the new 52 reboot, I think. They kept pushing back its publication because of it.

 

[WanderingWind]

The nu52 run? I was thinking about trying it out but that Rucka run was so good. That and Morrison's Batman and Robin were the best bat books this decade.

Yes. It's my favorite book right now. Only time I'll likely say this, but the entire package is equal to Rucka's run.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

Seems hard to verify possible sexist intent, but DC have been screwing with their writers ever since Nu-52 started. They've canned or rewritten entire issues shortly before they were supposed to hit, announced books with creative teams that never made it to press and much more. Few creators get to plot out a coherent story line before they're pulled aside and told they have to change it.

http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/staff/find/tag/hasdcdonesomethingstupid.html

From what little we can tell, the work atmosphere seems super toxic.

 

[Cwarrior]

"Great work on Justice League Unlimited." Pretty funny comic.

Sad comic but I don't get what your saying.

 

[Anticitizen One]

Greg Rucka abruptly left this book too. Seems to be a target for interference.

DC editorial has been shit. Is Harras still there? That guy is a fucking hack who fails upwards on the strength of his time at Marvel when they were selling foil covers instead of stories.

Bob Harras has been DC Editor in Chief since New 52 started

 

[Nesotenso]

DC is just anti-marriage.

 

[Anticitizen One]

DC is just anti-marriage.

Hence why Ralph & Sue Dibny and Wally and Linda West have been permanently erased from canon.

 

[GrandHarrier]

@JHWilliamsIII I've just been told that threats of violence have been issued toward individuals at DC comics. This is unacceptable. It needs to stop now.

@JHWilliamsIII To reiterate: Were NEVER told they could not marry because of gay marriage. AT ALL --

Oh internet. Never change.

 

[WanderingWind]

This whole threaten violence thing over every controversial decision thing is getting old real fast.

 

[Femmeworth]

Sad comic but I don't get what your saying.

Spoiler

Justice League Unlimited isn't that good and Dwayne Mcduffie is a shoddy writer.

 

[echoshifting]

This whole threaten violence thing over every controversial decision thing is getting old real fast.

What needs to happen is we need to accept that people are always going to do that, authorities should be alerted but it does not need to be publicized in any way. It's gross but I don't see how it's going to stop without a tremendous cultural shift away from instant anonymous communication.

 

[Dram]

I wonder if this will hurt their chances of ever working at DC again?

 

[GrandHarrier]

I wonder if this will hurt their chances of ever working at DC again?

I believe they still are? Or one of them anyways, working on Sandman for Vertigo.

 

[akira28]

This whole threaten violence thing over every controversial decision thing is getting old real fast.

I remember back when you could make death threats and everyone would get a nice laugh out of it. Kids these days are gonna ruin it for everyone.

Spoiler

Justice League Unlimited isn't that good and Dwayne Mcduffie is a shoddy writer.

y....you're mean.

 

[Ninjimbo]

Spoiler

Justice League Unlimited isn't that good and Dwayne Mcduffie is a shoddy writer.

;_;

 

[Escape Goat]

I wonder if this will hurt their chances of ever working at DC again?

Maybe under this EIC. I doubt this has endeared themselves to anyone at DC.

 

[Spike Spiegel]

Greg Rucka abruptly left this book too. Seems to be a target for interference.

Greg left for a variety of reasons, but the straw that broke the camel's back appears to have been that, after his exclusive contract with DC ended, Greg continued doing work-for-hire with the company because of promises made regarding certain "dream job" stories -- promises that were summarily broken, like when those stories were given to other writers. This all went on before the New52 reboot took place.

 

[shadyspace]

Spoiler

Justice League Unlimited isn't that good and Dwayne Mcduffie is a shoddy writer.

You're wrong but if it wasn't it would be he was a shoddy writer.

 

[Slayven]

Spoiler

Justice League Unlimited isn't that good and Dwayne Mcduffie is a shoddy writer.

And I use to be your biggest fan.

 

[WanderingWind]

What needs to happen is we need to accept that people are always going to do that, authorities should be alerted but it does not need to be publicized in any way. It's gross but I don't see how it's going to stop without a tremendous cultural shift away from instant anonymous communication.

Sure. I mean anybody who has played on XBL has been threatens with death at least 1,089,650 times a day, but that doesn't mean that I can just feel exasperated by the whole thing.

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

LMAO

 

[wenis]

Holy shit.

I'm axing Batman (the only DC superhero left in my pull list) from my pull list. Fuck you DC.

 

[the chris]

Greg left for a variety of reasons, but the straw that broke the camel's back appears to have been that, after his exclusive contract with DC ended, Greg continued doing work-for-hire with the company because of promises made regarding certain "dream job" stories -- promises that were summarily broken, like when those stories were given to other writers. This all went on before the New52 reboot took place.

I think Rucka is done with the big two in general for the immediate future, I know Marvel pissed him off when they essentially took what he was doing with the Punisher and let Daniel Way(of all people) put him on his terrible Thunderbolts book.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

DC's editorial team are the ones than banned Cassandra Cain from being used when multiple writers asked to use her.
screw them.

 

[Spike Spiegel]

I think Rucka is done with the big two in general for the immediate future, I know Marvel pissed him off when they essentially took what he was doing with the Punisher and let Daniel Way(of all people) put him on his terrible Thunderbolts book.

Pretty much.

 

[unpopularblargh]

Both Marvel and DC are against marriage as they feel it decreases the relatability of their characters to their younger readers who're also their primary targeted audience. It's one of the primary reasons Joe Q pretty much erased Spidey's marriage to MJ in the atrocity that is/was One More Day.

This isn't DC being against gay marriage but more so against marriage as a whole.

 

[Just_myles]

The art is on point. I would hate to see it changed.

 

[WanderingWind]

Both Marvel and DC are against marriage as they feel it decreases the relatability of their characters to their younger readers who're also their primary targeted audience. It's one of the primary reasons Joe Q pretty much erased Spidey's marriage to MJ in the atrocity that is/was One More Day.

This isn't DC being against gay marriage but more so against marriage as a whole.

It doesn't make it any better that they think their target audience is a bunch of virgin shut-ins who can't understand relationships like they've never seen movies or watched a TV show.

 

[Pau]

The art is on point. I would hate to see it changed.

To be fair, JH Williams hasn't been doing every issue for quite a while. I know Trevor McCarthy was working on it under JHW's wing.

 

[Femmeworth]

And I use to be your biggest fan.

Nice avatar change.

y....you're mean.

;_;

I'm not calling it bad.

 

[unpopularblargh]

It doesn't make it any better that they think their target audience is a bunch of virgin shut-ins who can't understand relationships like they've never seen movies or watched a TV show.

I know. I agree with you. This is dumb and what happened to Spider-Man was dumb. I actually brought this up with Dan Didio (former head of DC) a couple years ago at a panel at FanExpo and his reply was they wouldn't do it with Superman and Lois Lane. A year later Nu52 happened.

 

[eastmen]

Why did they make alan scott gay instead of making a new character ? Bateoman was a new gay character and she became popular.

 

[Ripclawe]

I still say this (sales) has a lot more to do with it than just gay marriage.

 

[Pau]

Why did they make alan scott gay instead of making a new character ? Bateoman was a new gay character and she became popular.

A huge number of characters were rebooted and their personalities, backstories, etc. changed. Plus, people are constantly experimenting and learning more about their sexualities. It's really not that unrealistic for a character who has previously described themselves as heterosexual change that later on in life.

 

[Slayven]

Nice avatar change.


I'm not calling it bad.

I was challenged and I think I met it with honor.

 

[sleepykyo]

I still say this (sales) has a lot more to do with it than just gay marriage.

What is that? Batwoman? Nu52 as a whole? Marvel&DC? The comic industry collectively?

 

[Ripclawe]

What is that? Batwoman? Nu52 as a whole? Marvel&DC? The comic industry collectively?

batwoman sales since the relaunching

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

I think Rucka is done with the big two in general for the immediate future, I know Marvel pissed him off when they essentially took what he was doing with the Punisher and let Daniel Way(of all people) put him on his terrible Thunderbolts book.

I was so filled with anger when Rucka was booted offof Punisher. He was doing a phenomenal job on the book. Plus, Punisher vs The Avengers was fantastic.

I haven't even touched Thunderbolts. Fuck that. I miss Rucka

 

[Dysun]

batwoman sales since the relaunching

Doesn't seem that bad to me, look at other Bat-family D-listers like Batwing/Talon/Birds of Prey and this book far outsells those which hover around 15~20k. Red Hood is also in the 30k range
With the critical acclaim and public reception this book has been receiving I expect it to plummet and soon be cancelled after they leave the book

 

[Metroidvania]

Man, Elegy was absolutely amazing, but as soon as Rucka left, it felt like storytelling took a hit. The serial arcs just didn't draw me in the way Elegy did, and the Weeping Woman and the like almost felt too sci-fi/cartoony villains for the more (even moreso than Batman, imo) realistic Batwoman.

Art was still amazing, though I wasn't as fond of the 2nd artist's (Amy Reeder) style compared to Williams. Come to think of it, she left over creative differences too, though I inferred back when it happened that it was more of a her vs Williams thing.

Back OT, even if it is an anti-marriage (stability, lack of tension, etc) in general thing (Superman and Lois, as well as several other marriages got dissolved in Nu52), and not specifically gay marriage, as seems to be indicated by further tweets from Williams, it seems kinda shitty.

 

[Pau]

Man, Elegy was absolutely amazing, but as soon as Rucka left, it felt like storytelling took a hit. The serial arcs just didn't draw me in the way Elegy did, and the Weeping Woman and the like almost felt too sci-fi/cartoony villains for the more (even moreso than Batman, imo) realistic Batwoman.

Realistic? Kate dealt with the more supernatural/magic stuff. Like those weird monster people and the Religion of Crime. I think it's cool way of differentiating her from Bruce's more noir and sci-fi villains.

 

[bonexylophone]

I think what frustrates me the most is that this happened and I was so happy:

And then suddenly, "nah, nevermind." Fuck you DC. I suppose I do see it more of an anti-marriage thing rather than an anti-gay statement but it still hurts.

 

[G-Fex]

Spoiler

Justice League Unlimited isn't that good and Dwayne Mcduffie is a shoddy writer.

Oh

it's femmeworth.

 

[Metroidvania]

Realistic? Kate dealt with the more supernatural/magic stuff. Like those weird monster people and the Religion of Crime. I think it's cool way of differentiating her from Bruce's more noir and sci-fi villains.

Fair point. The shifters I was fine with, but something about Medusa, combined with Kate working with the DEO, never quite resonated with me the way Elegy did.

I can't quite put it into words, but something about a Bat-clan title featuring primarily supernatural villains (who never really drew me in) after something like Alice. Not a bad thing by any means, but I think the series just ended up going in a slightly different direction than I was anticipating.

Kate is awesome enough to make up for it, though.