Support NeoGAF

[eastmen]

Oh deary me, sorry for missing this important distinction.



"Fortunately we have a product for people who aren't able to get some form of connectivity; it's called Xbox 360."

You might recall this line of thinking got MS into trouble last time, eh?

But seriously though, stop with the Steam comparisons already. You do it every thread. It's no less disingenuous every time you bring it up. Stop.

It's also no less true. You wanting it not to be true so you can hate on it , doesn't make it false.

You should also re read what you posted above. The key word in the quote is SOME

This is 2013 not 1996. I know that for sony fans the ability to connect to the internet is a realitvely new concept that came about late in the ps2's life and was an expensive add on with only a handful of game support and for the ps3 it was still a mess of a system that got better over the generation. But some of us have been online gaming with consoles since the Saturn . Its become a way of life to have a system allways plugged in or wifi connected.

Hell I started being connected online through sega channel back in the 16 bit days .

I'm ready for the industry to move forward and no stay stuck in the past.

 

[p3tran]

I think he's saying something like this:

Group A has 12 people, each person is able to carry 1 bag from the grocery store to the car every 5 seconds.
Group B has 18 people; each person is able to carry 1 bag from the grocery store to the car every 6 seconds.

Group A is able to carry 144 bags to the car per minute, or 8640 bags per hour.
Group B is able to carry 180 bags to the car per minute, or 10800 bags per hour.

Group B is ~25% more efficient than Group A.

I used 5 and 6 seconds due to easiness of calculation. That is greater than a 6% increase. Also, even though I wouldn't expect it, there's nothing stopping Sony from increasing the speed of the CUs prior to launch, just like MS did.

well, no need to go to very analytical examples, since two things are happening:
a) xbone does not get equal to or more powerful than ps4 no matter what
b) even (the very likeable fellow) mr penello said that power difference is less than 30%.
"no way we are letting competitor have a 30% advantage" or something where his exact words.
so, could very well be 23% or 27%
also, if it is less than 20% or less than 10%, then personally I wouldnt have used the "30%" mark.

ever since the original h/w specs where leaked, many months ago, many of us saw in advance if those where indeed the specs, then microsoft would try a moderate up of the clocks to close the gap. and 50-what hz on the gpu aint even that much.
so there is really no magic hidden here.

plus, in my opinion, we are "lucky" that sony did not have any stupid suits dictating that in order to raise yields, they should downclock since they have a clear advantage anyways, so why not profit just a little bit more.. I dont expect an upclock there.

anyway, as I said, its kind of like two goldfishes are fighting for who's the killer fish in the pond
microsoft most probably thought that they would gain MORE with their choices this gen, but it looks like they will gain less.
anyway, they will still pass the third generation course by survival and not death.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

It's also no less true. You wanting it not to be true so you can hate on it , doesn't make it false.

You should also re read what you posted above. The key word in the quote is SOME

This is 2013 not 1996. I know that for sony fans the ability to connect to the internet is a realitvely new concept that came about late in the ps2's life and was an expensive add on with only a handful of game support and for the ps3 it was still a mess of a system that got better over the generation. But some of us have been online gaming with consoles since the Saturn . Its become a way of life to have a system allways plugged in or wifi connected.

Hell I started being connected online through sega channel back in the 16 bit days .

I'm ready for the industry to move forward and no stay stuck in the past.

Hope you realize that you come off as a condescending douche.

 

[Finalizer]

It's also no less true. You wanting it not to be true so you can hate on it , doesn't make it false.

You should also re read what you posted above. The key word in the quote is SOME

I hope you're not alluding to your "vocal minority" schtick again.

And you can keep the rhetoric to yourself - A digital future does not require the Xbox One's DRM, as Steam readily displays by not requiring 24-hour check-ins despite adding its own family sharing plan. (One, I might add, that's actually been fully detailed and given a proper FAQ, not some bullet point that MS never properly explained at any point - but I'm sure you'll keep dreamin' anyway)

 

[shadowsdarknes]

Last time they talked about reasons to buy a xbox one neogaf went into a bitch fest.

Tv features , foot ball features , new live features and of course the games. But it seems no one on this forum or very few want to actually hear about those features so they just start whinning and making fun of ms.

People complained and said game sharing couldnt work it had to be just demos. We dont want this drm. Then valve comes out with 10 person game sharing and everyone loves it.

Ms is damned if they do and damned if they dont im suprised they actually come here any more. I wouldnt if I were them

People were quite fond of the game sharing feature here on GAF. Please go see the thread discussing the removal of the feature.

MS is damned for removing it. They would not be damned if they kept it. People were skeptical of the effectiveness of the game sharing feature because of a pastebin rumor that said it was going to be demos.

Overall, it was a very liked feature. Steam isn't getting any special attention for it. But then again, Steam's DRM features make sense and are fair for the PC platform. Microsoft's old DRM policies were awful.

I hope you're not alluding to your "vocal minority" schtick again.

And you can keep the rhetoric to yourself - A digital future does not require the Xbox One's DRM, as Steam readily displays by not requiring 24-hour check-ins despite adding its own family sharing plan. (One, I might add, that's actually been fully detailed and given a proper FAQ, not some bullet point that MS never properly explained at any point - but I'm sure you'll keep dreamin' anyway)

The PS4 is capable of an all digital future, too if the consumer wants that option. No 24 hour check in necessary.

 

[nib95]

It's also no less true. You wanting it not to be true so you can hate on it , doesn't make it false.

You should also re read what you posted above. The key word in the quote is SOME

This is 2013 not 1996. I know that for sony fans the ability to connect to the internet is a realitvely new concept that came about late in the ps2's life and was an expensive add on with only a handful of game support and for the ps3 it was still a mess of a system that got better over the generation. But some of us have been online gaming with consoles since the Saturn . Its become a way of life to have a system allways plugged in or wifi connected.

Hell I started being connected online through sega channel back in the 16 bit days .

I'm ready for the industry to move forward and no stay stuck in the past.

This is such a pretentious post. Firstly, stop acting like the world is only made up of developed nations. There are billions of people out there in territories that don't have such infrastructure, or that simply don't have access to online (servicemen, army, navy etc).

Secondly, designing a console that can't function with both groups in mind is just plain bad design. You can have all the functionality you originally wanted for an online only console, whilst also providing the same original functionality for people that don't, instead of just limiting or cutting off their gaming options altogether. That's not to say any of the functionality Microsoft was offering in order to promote an always online console was even particularly forward thinking, simply put, it wasn't. Family sharing turned out to be little more than a demoing scheme, and that was the number one key selling point for the horrible policy. The best way for Microsoft to prove otherwise is to simply bring back the game sharing policy for digitally sold games. There's simply no reason why they can't have it in with the same restrictions.

Add to that, Microsoft also claimed that it expected 1 billion (yes 1 billion) console sales (assuming across PS4, Wii U and XO) this generation. Such figures are an absolute pipe dream without a console that could function offline as well as online. To be fair, they're an absolute pipe dream no matter what.

Its not allways on. Its once every 24 hours and for a console that isn't portable that is hardly a problem. The number of people in 2013 who don't have acess to the internet 24/7 in their house is going to be a very tiny amount .

In 2013, statistically 61% of the world is not connected to or not using the internet.

 

[Neuromancer]

It's also no less true. You wanting it not to be true so you can hate on it , doesn't make it false.

You should also re read what you posted above. The key word in the quote is SOME

This is 2013 not 1996. I know that for sony fans the ability to connect to the internet is a realitvely new concept that came about late in the ps2's life and was an expensive add on with only a handful of game support and for the ps3 it was still a mess of a system that got better over the generation. But some of us have been online gaming with consoles since the Saturn . Its become a way of life to have a system allways plugged in or wifi connected.

Hell I started being connected online through sega channel back in the 16 bit days .

I'm ready for the industry to move forward and no stay stuck in the past.

Almost no one in the world has a problem with consoles being online. What many people have a problem with is the idea of a console that loses almost all functionality when their internet connection goes out, or servers are down, or in the future, when the servers are shut off.

I don't understand why this is hard for some people to understand. I've been online gaming since the 90's and I have a huge problem with a system that bricks itself when it can't reach the internet.

 

[BibiMaghoo]

Add to that, Microsoft also claimed that it expected 1 billion (yes 1 billion) console sales (assuming across PS4, Wii U and XO) this generation. Such figures are an absolute pipe dream without a console that could function offline as well as online. To be fair, they're an absolute pipe dream no matter what.

Whhhatt?

They said this? Surely they would have meant in cash, rather than units? This is the most laughable projection of sales I have ever seen, I cannot believe this came from a company like Microsoft.

 

[3rdamention]

Its kinda of a shame that I am skeptical of Albert now. I really like that he is communicating with us and being so open. However, so many on GAF were saying the numbers didn't "add up." The ARS story is saying some of the numbers do not work the way Albert and his Technical Fellow are claiming they do either.



Now Albert tells us he has answers to some of our questions, but they will just "bring us back to square one again" which is very confusing. If they are legitimate and honest answers, and they answer specific questions, they should work better towards clearing up the confusion instead of creating more. How hard is it to say "This is how we came up with those calculations, this is why the numbers DO ADD UP, and this is why some of the users on GAF and some of the statements in the ARS article are TOTALLY FALSE!!"


I basically feel the reason we have to wait a "couple of weeks" before we get the answers is because they are trying to find ways to make the original numbers (the specifications that Albert posted here on GAF) to work, somehow, instead of admitting that some of them may have been miscalculated or simply wrong.

 

[Finalizer]

People were quite fond of the game sharing feature here on GAF. Please go see the thread discussing the removal of the feature.

MS is damned for removing it. They would not be damned if they kept it. People were skeptical of the effectiveness of the game sharing feature because of a pastebin rumor that said it was going to be demos.

Overall, it was a very liked feature. Steam isn't getting any special attention for it. But then again, Steam's DRM features make sense and are fair for the PC platform. Microsoft's old DRM policies were awful.

There was a bit more to it than that in MS' case, I'd argue - While the feature in and of itself sounded interesting, the problem was that MS only threw out the basic idea with no additional explanation. We only had MS' word and faith to go on, and faith in MS was not exactly plentiful in the wake of their DRM implementation and how they were handling the backlash.

That's a huge difference, in contrast, to how Steam is handling it - the info everyone needs is right there. On top of that, it isn't being brought about in the wake of obnoxious DRM additions; it's just a feature being added to a digital platform that already allows folks to play offline if they ever need to, on top of other features of Steam. There's no sitting around hoping things will get better - we already know what Steam is and how it works, so there's no worry of putting down a $500 investment toward the hope that a company will end up doing good things; everything that anyone wants and needs to know about the platform is well documented, heavily discussed, and just well known. Hence, feature additions are naturally embraced, not looked upon in suspicion.

The PS4 is capable of an all digital future, too if the consumer wants that option. No 24 hour check in necessary.

Shhh, no it's not, Sony doesn't know anything about the internet, haven't you heard?

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Here we go talking about everything that isn't on-topic again. This is why console tech threads on GAF end up closed like pyrite mines and end up being just as valuable.

 

[Neuromancer]

Whhhatt?

They said this? Surely they would have meant in cash, rather than units? This is the most laughable projection of sales I have ever seen, I cannot believe this came from a company like Microsoft.

Kind of

“We think you can go broader than a game console, that’s our aim, and you can go from 400 million to potentially upwards of a billion units."

http://www.vg247.com/2013/05/24/xbo...on-lifetime-sales-100-million-xbox-360-units/

 

[spwolf]

It's also no less true. You wanting it not to be true so you can hate on it , doesn't make it false.

You should also re read what you posted above. The key word in the quote is SOME

This is 2013 not 1996. I know that for sony fans the ability to connect to the internet is a realitvely new concept that came about late in the ps2's life and was an expensive add on with only a handful of game support and for the ps3 it was still a mess of a system that got better over the generation. But some of us have been online gaming with consoles since the Saturn . Its become a way of life to have a system allways plugged in or wifi connected.

Hell I started being connected online through sega channel back in the 16 bit days .

I'm ready for the industry to move forward and no stay stuck in the past.

lol, yes... lets move forward so we cant resell our games or lend them to friends.

 

[nib95]

Whhhatt?

They said this? Surely they would have meant in cash, rather than units? This is the most laughable projection of sales I have ever seen, I cannot believe this came from a company like Microsoft.

Yeap.

Xbox One: Microsoft aims for 1 billion lifetime sales, 100 million Xbox 360 units

Microsoft: Over 1 Billion Next-Gen Consoles Will be Sold

 

[p3tran]

Add to that, Microsoft also claimed that it expected 1 billion (yes 1 billion) console sales (assuming across PS4, Wii U and XO) this generation. Such figures are an absolute pipe dream without a console that could function offline as well as online. To be fair, they're an absolute pipe dream no matter what.

that was before matrick left, wasnt it?

edit: I googled it, its from May. btw, interesting figure is that out of those extra 25 million sales, microsoft expects that around 12mil of them will be ...replacements.
and thats before the overclock hahahaha

day 1 microsoft customer here, but thats a stupid thing to say

 

[nib95]

that was before matrick left, wasnt it?

edit: I googled it, its from May. btw, interesting figure is that out of those extra 25 million sales, microsoft expects that around 12mil of them will be ...replacements.
and thats before the overclock hahahaha

day 1 microsoft customer here, but thats a stupid thing to say

I think that was only referring to the Xbox 360 sales, but yea that is bizarre. Makes me wonder if the new Xbox 360 is particularly reliable lol.

 

[p3tran]

oh, you are right. does not refer at all to xbone.
well, if you plan to keep a working 360 for years, then 12 mil are not enough for global coverage anyways

 

[SeaOfMadness]

I feel sorry for Albert. Its like he's an innocent man in an FBI interrogation room surrounded by 5,000 agents who aren't leaving until they get a full confession. He's pretty brave, I'll give him that.

edit: missed a couple of important words!

 

[xaosslug]

I think eastmen hit the nail on the head. MS is damned if they do, damned if they don't. The torches are already raised and it seems some people want to come back with a head on the pike.

I'm really not understanding it. Some of the responses in this thread are so vitriolic, crass, and disrespectful. I guess that's internet anonymity for ya.

that said... so what? People are gonna say what they are gonna say, regardless. Does that mean MS should pack it in, whine about it their hurtsy feewings, and continue to mislead peeps with 'opinion' pieces veiled as information/clarification?

let's stop with the bullshit, please.

 

[JaggedSac]

I feel sorry for Albert. Its like he's in an FBI interrogation room surrounded by 5,000 agents who aren't leaving until they get a full confession. He's pretty brave, I'll give him that.

Why do you have to be brave? Do people really care what others say about them on internet forums?

 

[Nightengale]

I'm ready for the industry to move forward and no stay stuck in the past.

Have you been to India?

There's about roughly one million+ consoles sold in India, about 60% of them are PS2s.

It's estimated that those one million+ consoles are shared by 30+ million childrens. Yes. One console shared by a classroom sized of children.

Zero internet connectivity. Consoles are placed in public areas, malls, sometimes in open areas powered by generators for the SDTV and console.

Games there are either pirated, or children pool money together to buy one game, and take turns playing those games. To them, watching their friends play games are enjoyment of its own.

This situation persist in many parts of the developing world, all with its own circumstances. Some have ridiculous 'luxury tax', some countries prevent internet connectivity to consoles, some simply cannot afford the luxury of the gaming experience US/UK/developed markets are experiencing.

Get out of your bubble.

 

[SeaOfMadness]

Why do you have to be brave? Do people really care what others say about them on internet forums?

Random anonymous people don't, but high profile exec types do because the stuff they say (or don't say) makes the news.

 

[WrenchNinja]

Its not allways on. Its once every 24 hours and for a console that isn't portable that is hardly a problem. The number of people in 2013 who don't have acess to the internet 24/7 in their house is going to be a very tiny amount .

I thought we had expunged this delusional thought process by now after the 180. Guess not.

 

[hardvibes]

Again?

 

[Udham]

Have you been to India?
Zero internet connectivity.

Sorry brah. You gotta visit India again, you are plain wrong.

 

[Fredrik]

I actually trust MS far more than Sony when it comes to specs and how important they are in reality, I've been fooled too many times by Sony's hype machinery to trust them on things like this.

 

[Nightengale]

Sorry brah. You gotta visit India again, you are plain wrong.

I was referring to their console gaming scene there. A large majority of the console install base there simply do not connect to the internet.

I'm not talking Mumbai or Delhi here, closer to Chennai & Kanpur.

 

[turk3y]

Hi Albert,

all this promised tech deep diving sounds great but apart from ultra geeky numbers which may or may not satisfy or demonstrate anything other than there is more than one way to skin a cat (in this case kick ass games) could we get more detail on "balance" and why this is so important that it seems Microsoft has thrown huge research and dev budgets at it.

So what exactly is this balance and how does it benefit developers and in turn us gamers?

being skeptical it seems that simply just adding CU's to allow any other "problems" to be solved with GPGPU which appears to be Sonys solution which by your own admission is of a parity with the Xbox One. I assume however there is more to this balance and multiple areas are touched and improved on due to this balance, would you be able to get some elaboration?

Are you able to discuss where Microsoft sees these bottlenecks and how this design addresses these concerns.

it would be interesting to get an insight into how Microsoft perceive the future trends of the technology and techniques used in the industry and how you have tailored your custom design to best exploit these trends.

Should we expect Microsoft Research White papers based on this work, or was this work based on previously published white papers which we can go read?

The hardware panel held at the launch event was excellent and your communication seems to be the best possible insight into the inner sanctum of the great minds that conceived Xbox One.

 

[KidBeta]

Its not allways on. Its once every 24 hours and for a console that isn't portable that is hardly a problem. The number of people in 2013 who don't have acess to the internet 24/7 in their house is going to be a very tiny amount .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Internet_usage

Heres a link to the very stats you seem to be quoting, i will summarise for you.

In 2013, there are a total of only 39% of the people in the world using the internet, but lets break it down even further.

In the developed world.

77% of people using to the internet

In the developing world.

31% of people using to the internet

In short, unless 23% of people in the developed world are a 'very tiny amount' you are plain and simply wrong.

 

[twobear]

that was before matrick left, wasnt it?

edit: I googled it, its from May. btw, interesting figure is that out of those extra 25 million sales, microsoft expects that around 12mil of them will be ...replacements.
and thats before the overclock hahahaha

day 1 microsoft customer here, but thats a stupid thing to say

It says that they want 25 million sales of Xbox 360 post-Xbone launch; 12 million being replacements of existing 360s (people buying a new model). That's how I read it, anyway.

 

[Skeff]

Its not allways on. Its once every 24 hours and for a console that isn't portable that is hardly a problem. The number of people in 2013 who don't have acess to the internet 24/7 in their house is going to be a very tiny amount .

Just to clarify, because America = world here so often and Microsoft's main market is the US, I should point out 30% of Americans don't have Broadband.

http://www.wired.com/opinion/2013/0...-divide-and-mobile-paradox-for-u-s-broadband/

That's from about 2 weeks ago.

 

[rjinaz]

Last time they talked about reasons to buy a xbox one neogaf went into a bitch fest.

Tv features , foot ball features , new live features and of course the games. But it seems no one on this forum or very few want to actually hear about those features so they just start whinning and making fun of ms.

People complained and said game sharing couldnt work it had to be just demos. We dont want this drm. Then valve comes out with 10 person game sharing and everyone loves it.

Ms is damned if they do and damned if they dont im suprised they actually come here any more. I wouldnt if I were them

Microsoft is doing a lot things that many gamers here don't like. It's as simple as that. You listed a few of them. It's not some mob mentality, it's simply folks upset at the direction that Microsoft is going. I have a 360 and as such, I wanted Microsoft's next console. But not like this. Their focus on Kinect and TV is not for me. And I don't want to pay more for a console when the competition is more graphically capable. People are upset and they are sharing their opinions about it in a gaming forum.

 

[Klocker]

I think eastmen hit the nail on the head. MS is damned if they do, damned if they don't. The torches are already raised and it seems some people want to come back with a head on the pike.

I'm really not understanding it. Some of the responses in this thread are so vitriolic, crass, and disrespectful. I guess that's internet anonymity for ya.

this.

 

[Klocker]

I would appreciate if you give me link of them.

Also, did you read the article? someone is straight us making crap up that are disingenuous and posting needs to be ridiculed .

or maybe... ARS Tech has their head up their ass on this one because they don't know what MS engineers know...

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

It's also no less true. You wanting it not to be true so you can hate on it , doesn't make it false.

You should also re read what you posted above. The key word in the quote is SOME

This is 2013 not 1996. I know that for sony fans the ability to connect to the internet is a realitvely new concept that came about late in the ps2's life and was an expensive add on with only a handful of game support and for the ps3 it was still a mess of a system that got better over the generation. But some of us have been online gaming with consoles since the Saturn . Its become a way of life to have a system allways plugged in or wifi connected.

Hell I started being connected online through sega channel back in the 16 bit days .

I'm ready for the industry to move forward and no stay stuck in the past.

You're so clueless about internet penetration worldwide it's not even funny. Keep beating that drum i guess. "Sony fans are stuck in the past, microsoft is the future!"

 

[Azih]

I think the MS hate is overblown but one thing is really clear.

PR people should *never* try to engage in a technical argument with detailed technical terminology. It's just.. not a good idea. Neither are insipid buzzwords. The rightfully mocked 'power of the cloud' spiel actually took the attention away from what should have been an easy win for MS. Dedicated servers provided by MS that devs can use not just for multiplayer but also to enhance single player games sounds pretty good right? All of that blown away by 'power of da cloud!'.

 

[RobotMafia]

If MS wants to stop getting "hate" they could stop fucking lying with everything they say. Oh wait, Albert said he will totally come back with all the correct answers in a few weeks!

 

[USC-fan]

or maybe... ARS Tech has their head up their ass on this one because they don't know what MS engineers know...

Nope that's not it.

We have detail information on the system. But I know there is no reasoning with you.

 

[Skeff]

or maybe... ARS Tech has their head up their ass on this one because they don't know what MS engineers know...

the first two points they discussed can be destroyed of all credibility by a Math teacher, Basic algebra and all that, but it's been said many times in many threads, Their are mathematical proofs here on GAF which show how much Bullshit Penello was pedalling.

12(100+6) = (100+6) + (100+6) + (100+6) + (100+6) + (100+6) + (100+6) + (100+6) + (100+6) + (100+6) + (100+6) + (100+6) + (100+6)

That is Math and it is indisputable.

 

[Aske]

or maybe... ARS Tech has their head up their ass on this one because they don't know what MS engineers know...

If the Xbone had a rabbit in its hat, it would have pulled it out by now. The public perceives the console as significantly weaker than the PS4. If this is demonstrably false, we'd have more than a single executive making cryptic forum posts to dispel the myth. Instead we have smoke and mirrors, because MS desperately wishes to challenge this perception despite lacking an ability to change reality.

 

[freenudemacusers]

or maybe... ARS Tech has their head up their ass on this one because they don't know what MS engineers know...

is this secret sauce round two?

 

[3rdamention]

If the Xbone had a rabbit in its hat, it would have pulled it out by now. The public perceives the console as significantly weaker than the PS4. If this is demonstrably false, we'd have more than a single executive making cryptic forum posts to dispel the myth. Instead we have smoke and mirrors, because MS desperately wishes to challenge this perception despite lacking an ability to change reality.

I think this is the point that has so many people perplexed. They brought this on themselves, Albert and Major Nelson were on sites like Gaf, Reddit and Twitter, and both were claiming the power gap was not true, and even that there WAS NO power gap.


All of this after Microsoft stated previously they were not trying to go for the most powerful specs, etc. I just dont know why Microsoft brought this on themselves, when the specs are pretty clear at this point.


They just seem to be recently ignoring what they have that the PS4 doesn't, Kinect 2, a more mature online system in Xbox Live, a very well received and loved controller, tons of TV integrations. They have wanted to get in some type of tech pissing war when they really haven't needed to.

 

[Bundy]

Nope that's not it.

We have detail information on the system. But I know there is no reasoning with you.

This!

 

[mrklaw]

It's also no less true. You wanting it not to be true so you can hate on it , doesn't make it false.

You should also re read what you posted above. The key word in the quote is SOME

This is 2013 not 1996. I know that for sony fans the ability to connect to the internet is a realitvely new concept that came about late in the ps2's life and was an expensive add on with only a handful of game support and for the ps3 it was still a mess of a system that got better over the generation. But some of us have been online gaming with consoles since the Saturn . Its become a way of life to have a system allways plugged in or wifi connected.

Hell I started being connected online through sega channel back in the 16 bit days .

I'm ready for the industry to move forward and no stay stuck in the past.

I think the point is - you are not *everybody* and therefore it comes across as a little arrogant to make comments like that.

The stats show that a huge number of 360 owners didn't connect to the internet - whether through lack of internet, or lack of desire to connect it up. You can provide incentives for people to connect - better experiences etc, but you shouldn't require it, unless you're prepared to lose a significant chunk of users.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

Have you been to India?

There's about roughly one million+ consoles sold in India, about 60% of them are PS2s.

It's estimated that those one million+ consoles are shared by 30+ million childrens. Yes. One console shared by a classroom sized of children.

Zero internet connectivity. Consoles are placed in public areas, malls, sometimes in open areas powered by generators for the SDTV and console.

Games there are either pirated, or children pool money together to buy one game, and take turns playing those games. To them, watching their friends play games are enjoyment of its own.

This situation persist in many parts of the developing world, all with its own circumstances. Some have ridiculous 'luxury tax', some countries prevent internet connectivity to consoles, some simply cannot afford the luxury of the gaming experience US/UK/developed markets are experiencing.

Get out of your bubble.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Internet_usage

Heres a link to the very stats you seem to be quoting, i will summarise for you.

In 2013, there are a total of only 39% of the people in the world using the internet, but lets break it down even further.

In the developed world.

77% of people using to the internet

In the developing world.

31% of people using to the internet

In short, unless 23% of people in the developed world are a 'very tiny amount' you are plain and simply wrong.

The plain arrogance and exceptionalism of some people is absolutely baffling. Do people honestly believe that every family in the gaming ecosystem lives in a comfortable affluent neighborhood with fiber optic internet connection? Are people truly that myopic? The gaming industry won't be able to move to an 'always online' state for at least another 15 years or until the equivalent of a PS6 without dropping a significant portion of the world population to the wayside. To argue otherwise is nothing short of foolish, and to not only 'not care' but condemn those who oppose the forced and rapid transformation of the medium is exceedingly selfish.

I really don't understand where this perspective comes from, especially considering how even 30% of US citizens don't even have broadband. That's as first world, as first world countries get (in perception).

 

[Neuromancer]

I think it's just, "Fuck you I got mine" mixed with corporate loyalty.

 

[Militant17]

My problem is that MS hasn't really shown why having our console connected was going to benefit games besides for online multiplayer. I kept hearing about the cloud and it turns out most games function without it. So what was the point? Just DRM? Let gamers choose whether they want to go online. Infact maybe if you made it worth our while (without locking a bunch of crap behind a pay wall) you would entice people to actually get connected.

My feeling is that MS wanted to use this 24 hour check in to try and push people towards purchasing a gold account. We all know how much money MS make from that. Because if you have to have your console connected to use it, then why not just buy gold too and use the benefits of that forced connection.

 

[cyberheater]

My problem is that MS hasn't really shown why having our console connected was going to benefit games besides for online multiplayer. I kept hearing about the cloud and it turns out most games function without it. So what was the point? Just DRM? Let gamers choose whether they want to go online. Infact maybe if you made it worth our while (without locking a bunch of crap behind a pay wall) you would entice people to actually get connected.

My feeling is that MS wanted to use this 24 hour check in to try and push people towards purchasing a gold account. We all know how much money MS make from that. Because if you have to have your console connected to use it, then why not just buy gold too and use the benefits of that forced connection.

I don't really see the point of buying a Xbox One without buying Xbox Gold. Most of good stuff is behind the paywall.

 

[crazygambit]

Yeap.

Xbox One: Microsoft aims for 1 billion lifetime sales, 100 million Xbox 360 units

Microsoft: Over 1 Billion Next-Gen Consoles Will be Sold

Holy shit. How long is next gen gonna last? And I thought this one was bad.

 

[BlastProcessing]

It's also no less true. You wanting it not to be true so you can hate on it , doesn't make it false.

You should also re read what you posted above. The key word in the quote is SOME

This is 2013 not 1996. I know that for sony fans the ability to connect to the internet is a realitvely new concept that came about late in the ps2's life and was an expensive add on with only a handful of game support and for the ps3 it was still a mess of a system that got better over the generation. But some of us have been online gaming with consoles since the Saturn . Its become a way of life to have a system allways plugged in or wifi connected.

Hell I started being connected online through sega channel back in the 16 bit days .

I'm ready for the industry to move forward and no stay stuck in the past.

In my estimation, moving forward means gaining more rights and abilities, not losing them. My smartphone and my PC, the two most connected devices ever created, still maintain functionality when they are cut off from the internet. Why wouldn't my console?