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[Blackhead]

I'm not sure I agree. Subsidies distort demand, but it doesn't distort the price difference between the two, at least outside Japan.

I really don't know what the sales breakdown will be. And I don't think apple will reveal those numbers, outside of ASP. I think it will sell better than the old models ever did though.

Well it does distort the percentage price difference: $100 is half of $200 but $550 ain't half of $650.

Where do you get your data? According to CIRP, iPhone 4S has hovered around 30% of iPhone sales for the last year:

Strategy Analytics says iPhone 4S was the 2nd best selling model for at least half of the last year:

I don't see any data that says that iPhone 4 was the second best selling model last year.

Where are they getting their data from? (And aren't CIRP surveys for just the USA?)

My comments are based on Tim Cooks' announcements in the quarterly earning reports
In his own words: Tim Cook on Apple earnings and more (January)

iPhone demand in the quarter

If you look at the iPhone sales across the quarter, we were very constrained for much of the quarter on iPhone 5. As we begin to produce more and ship more, sales went up with the production. iPhone 4 was actually in constraint for the entire quarter, and sales remained strong.

Apple's Cook talks quarterly earnings, new products (April)

We’ve seen a significant interest in iPhone 4 there and have recently made it even more affordable to make it even more attractive to those first-time buyers. And so we’re hopeful that will help iPhone sales in future...

Now, that said, we see an enormous number of first-time smartphone buyers coming to market particularly in certain countries around the world. And so what we’ve done with that, and we started last quarter, is we’ve made the iPhone 4 even more affordable, and which has made it more attractive to first-time buyers, and we caught up on the demand toward the—late in the quarter last quarter. And we’re continuing to do that in other markets...

Live Blog: Apple announces 2013 third-quarter earnings (July)

If you look at the iPhone numbers, we saw significant growth at the lower price point, year over year, which for us is iPhone 4—still a great product. That was one of the things, and the iPhone 5 doing well, that allowed us to signifcantly beat what I think were the vast majority of expectations out there for iPhone sales...

From an iPhone point of view, with the moves that we made on 4 and iPhone 5 continuing to be the most popular model, we saw very strong sales in prepaid markets. India was up over 400%, Turkey and Poland were both up 60%. Strong iPhone sales in developed markets, too. Several regions where iPhone growth actually accelerated from previous quarter...

Reference that Peter made earlier was to the iPhone 4. What we've seen is that the number of first time smartphone buyers that the iPhone is attracting is very, very impressive, and we want to attract as many of these buyers as we can. Saw that beginning to happen towards the end of Q2. Did that on a wider spread basis this quarter and continue to be very happy with what we saw. Where iPhone 5 continues to be the most popular iPhone by far, we're really happy to provide a quality product with iPhone 4...

The Americas + Japan accounts for only about 26% (?) of Apple's sales. And obviously the other regions received the iPhone 5 (and accompanying iPhone 4 price drops) much later in the year...

 

[royalan]

Anybody read this?

Gizmodo - iPhone 5s Camera Battle: A Stand Up Camera That Doesn't Stand Out

So much for those bigger pixels. Even the dual-tone flash seems to be a rather pointless feature. Low-light performance really seems to be the only area the 5s' camera offers a marked improvement.

As the days go by my 5c purchase seems smarter and smarter.

 

[Sailor]

Anybody read this?

Gizmodo - iPhone 5s Camera Battle: A Stand Up Camera That Doesn't Stand Out

So much for those bigger pixels. Even the dual-tone flash seems to be a rather pointless feature. Low-light performance really seems to be the only area the 5s' camera offers a marked improvement.

As the days go by my 5c purchase seems smarter and smarter.

It isn't. For a little more capital you get a product that will surely withstand the test of time. It's immensely more powerful than the 5C and has Touch ID, which will be implemented in more of the OS going forward. If you have the ~$100 to spare, it's a bargain. Camera on the 5S is still better than the 5C, no matter if that difference is large or small.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Anybody read this?

Gizmodo - iPhone 5s Camera Battle: A Stand Up Camera That Doesn't Stand Out

So much for those bigger pixels. Even the dual-tone flash seems to be a rather pointless feature. Low-light performance really seems to be the only area the 5s' camera offers a marked improvement.

As the days go by my 5c purchase seems smarter and smarter.

You won't find many people abetting that a 3-5% savings over 2 years is worth getting... essentially last year's hardware.

I agree with you about plastic being a better material for phones though!

 

[Piercedveil]

How's the battery life for you guys with the 5c so far?

 

[royalan]

You won't find many people abetting that a 3-5% savings over 2 years is worth getting... essentially last year's hardware.

I agree with you about plastic being a better material for phones though!

But HEW in the US thinks of it like this? Contracts are a way of life, and nobody is thinking of the savings over 2 years before the upfront costs. Like it or not, it's going to be seen as 50% savings.

 

[Juice]

Anybody read this?

Gizmodo - iPhone 5s Camera Battle: A Stand Up Camera That Doesn't Stand Out

So much for those bigger pixels. Even the dual-tone flash seems to be a rather pointless feature. Low-light performance really seems to be the only area the 5s' camera offers a marked improvement.

As the days go by my 5c purchase seems smarter and smarter.

Umm, I'm holding an iPhone 5 and an iPhone 5s next to each other taking a bunch of pictures and the quality of the 5s ABSOLUTELY TROUNCES every shot from the 5. Sharper focus, less distortion, less fuzziness, better outdoor and distant shots, better indoor and low light shots. More details in macro shots. Etc etc etc

 

[The Faceless Master]

But HEW in the US thinks of it like this? Contracts are a way of life, and nobody is thinking of the savings over 2 years before the upfront costs. Like it or not, it's going to be seen as 50% savings.

i meant in this thread, not in America. i assume that people on GAF can do the math...

Umm, I'm holding an iPhone 5 and an iPhone 5s next to each other taking a bunch of pictures and the quality of the 5s ABSOLUTELY TROUNCES every shot from the 5. Sharper focus, less distortion, less fuzziness, better outdoor and distant shots, better indoor and low light shots. More details in macro shots. Etc etc etc

you should make a blog post on it.

with pics!

 

[gblues]

How's the battery life for you guys with the 5c so far?

I haven't formally clocked it, but it's considerably better than my old Samsung was, even brand new. The battery indicator seems to be fairly linear--that is, the first half of the battery seems to last about as long as the second half.

Is there any particular activity you were interested in benchmarking?

 

[Maninthemirror]

Umm, I'm holding an iPhone 5 and an iPhone 5s next to each other taking a bunch of pictures and the quality of the 5s ABSOLUTELY TROUNCES every shot from the 5. Sharper focus, less distortion, less fuzziness, better outdoor and distant shots, better indoor and low light shots. More details in macro shots. Etc etc etc

Show us pics

 

[Piercedveil]

I haven't formally clocked it, but it's considerably better than my old Samsung was, even brand new. The battery indicator seems to be fairly linear--that is, the first half of the battery seems to last about as long as the second half.

Is there any particular activity you were interested in benchmarking?

Just curious about light to moderate general use. I don't really play games on my phone. I'm mostly wondering how the battery lasts throughout the day while doing some texting, web browsing, and maybe a few short phone calls.

 

[numble]

Well it does distort the percentage price difference: $100 is half of $200 but $550 ain't half of $650.



Where are they getting their data from? (And aren't CIRP surveys for just the USA?)

My comments are based on Tim Cooks' announcements in the quarterly earning reports
In his own words: Tim Cook on Apple earnings and more (January)


Apple's Cook talks quarterly earnings, new products (April)


Live Blog: Apple announces 2013 third-quarter earnings (July)


The Americas + Japan accounts for only about 26% (?) of Apple's sales. And obviously the other regions received the iPhone 5 (and accompanying iPhone 4 price drops) much later in the year...

Strategy Analytics analyzes for global shipments.

Supply constraints and increased demand do not say that something is the second best selling model. When the iMac was supply constrained, was it the 2nd best selling Mac product?

That is not data that says it is the second best selling model, but that sales were higher than Apple anticipated.

Your link clearly says Americas+Japan account for 47-49% of iPhone sales:

Conclusion - The iPhone's QoQ growth patterns are strikingly similar across regions and bring into question the scale of the iPhone's growth potential in emerging markets. Based on these patterns, my full-year estimate is 60-70 million sales in the Americas, 40-50 million in Europe, 10-13 million in Japan and 35-45 million in the APAC region , totaling to about 150-170 million iPhone sales globally.

 

[Blackhead]

Strategy Analytics analyzes for global shipments.

Supply constraints and increased demand do not say that something is the second best selling model. When the iMac was supply constrained, was it the 2nd best selling Mac product?

That is not data that says it is the second best selling model, but that sales were higher than Apple anticipated.

Your link clearly says Americas+Japan account for 47-49% of iPhone sales.

Supply constraits would explain why the iPhone 4s sold more than the iPhone 4 in that chart you posted. Once Apple was able to meet demand, it sold extremely well as Tim Cook repeatedly stated. I mean to say America ( USA) + Japan. Americas (brazil, mexico etc) obviously doesnt have the same carrier subsidies system as USA and Japan.

 

[Animator]

I saw a 5C today and it looks like one of those fake plastic phones at best buy with sticker screens. It is hilarious they are trying to sell this crap for $600 in Canada.

 

[numble]

Supply constraits would explain why the iPhone 4s sold more than the iPhone 4 in that chart you posted. Once Apple was able to meet demand, it sold extremely well as Tim Cook repeatedly stated. I mean to say America ( USA) + Japan. Americas (brazil, mexico etc) obviously doesnt have the same carrier subsidies system as USA and Japan.

Please point me to data from any source that says it was the second best selling phone last year. Selling well or supply constraints do not give any indication of where it sits on a ranking of best selling models.

 

[diaspora]

Just got this phone in our store. The weight is good, but the body feels like garbage, good god.

 

[gwiz210]

Got my blue iPhone 5c on launch day. It's fantastic.

 

[Doffen]

Just got this phone in our store. The weight is good, but the body feels like garbage, good god.

One man's garbage is another man's Polycarbonate.

Spoiler

What?

 

[Blackhead]

Please point me to data from any source that says it was the second best selling phone last year. Selling well or supply constraints do not give any indication of where it sits on a ranking of best selling models.

Tim Cook's words:

If you look at the iPhone numbers, we saw significant growth at the lower price point, year over year, which for us is iPhone 4—still a great product. That was one of the things, and the iPhone 5 doing well, that allowed us to signifcantly beat what I think were the vast majority of expectations out there for iPhone sales...

Apple doesnt break down the precise sales of the models. This is the closest to an official indication. Tim Cook repeatedly said that iPhone 5 and iPhone 4 sales were responsible for majority of the iPhone growth. *shrug* keep bringing in your third party analyst data I dont think they are accurate.

 

[numble]

Tim Cook's words:

Apple doesnt break down the precise sales of the models. This is the closest to an official indication. Tim Cook repeatedly said that iPhone 5 and iPhone 4 sales were responsible for majority of the iPhone growth. *shrug* keep bringing in your third party analyst data I dont think they are accurate.

That is not any indication for it being the second largest in sales. Beating expectations and growing better than expected aren't going to tell you it was the second best selling model. Tim Cook says it did better at that price point year over year, which meant it simply has to do better than the 3GS 2011-2012 position to get there, which was already helped by the greater availability of iPhone 4 (covers CDMA carriers like Verizon, Sprint and China Telecom that did not have access to the 3GS).

 

[diaspora]

One man's garbage is another man's Polycarbonate.

Spoiler

What?

The plastic feels like its from a fisher price toy.

 

[The Faceless Master]

I saw a 5C today and it looks like one of those fake plastic phones at best buy with sticker screens. It is hilarious they are trying to sell this crap for $600 in Canada.

the difference in cost of materials between the plastic and metal on the outside is like less than 1% of the total cost of the phone...

 

[Jill Sandwich]

The plastic feels like its from a fisher price toy.

Bollocks. They have a much nicer feel and finish to the 3G/3Gs.

 

[Guess Who]

iPhone 5c's plastic is hella nice. Haters, hate, etc.

 

[Blackhead]

That is not any indication for it being the second largest in sales. Beating expectations and growing better than expected aren't going to tell you it was the second best selling model. Tim Cook says it did better at that price point year over year, which meant it simply has to do better than the 3GS 2011-2012 position to get there, which was already helped by the greater availability of iPhone 4 (covers CDMA carriers like Verizon, Sprint and China Telecom that did not have access to the 3GS).

Tim specifically stated prepaid countries as the engine for iPhone 4 growth (and not China as he reported performance there was poor). well *shrug* agree to disagree, iphone 4s sold more.etc

 

[diaspora]

Bollocks. They have a much nicer feel and finish to the 3G/3Gs.

Low bar to set.

 

[mrkgoo]

Something people don't seem to 'get' about economics is that the prices of products aren't really based on what it costs to produce (and deliver). They are priced at what the value is to consumers - basically what they think consumers will pay for it.

The ONLY way it really relates to product cost is in how competition price the same or similar product. That is, if a competitor can price it less and still make a profit, they will.


Think about it - most other products you use aren't priced at what they cost to make. Food. Clothes. They're all priced at what the value is to consumers, and largely, determined BY the consumers. If the average consumer didn't find value in a product at a certain price, they wouldn't buy it. Large companies do their research and determine what that value is when they price their products.

I mean soft drinks are a good example. Do they remotely cost anything near what they cost to make, even taking into account advertising/marketing and shipping? No. They are priced at a point where consumers find value - be it a refreshment, energy, taste, convenience or whatever.

Fact is, people find value in $600 smartphones. Sure, there may be cheaper phones that do the same thing, but there is always added value for that consumer that buys it.

 

[numble]

Tim specifically stated prepaid countries as the engine for iPhone 4 growth (and not China as he reported performance there was poor). well *shrug* agree to disagree, iphone 4s sold more.etc

If you could even find just 1 analyst that interpreted the conference call statements as saying the iPhone 4 was the second best selling model and that the new model sells three times more than the year old model (where did this come from?) I would find your conjecture more believable.

Better growth year over year compared to the 3GS does not mean something is the second best selling model. It simply doesn't follow.

 

[numble]

Tim specifically stated prepaid countries as the engine for iPhone 4 growth (and not China as he reported performance there was poor). well *shrug* agree to disagree, iphone 4s sold more.etc

Your April quarter quote is specifically talking about China and iPhone 4 interest. The truth is that the iPhone 4 will necessarily do more than the 3GS in China because the 3GS was never released in China.

 

[Blackhead]

Your April quarter quote is specifically talking about China and iPhone 4 interest. The truth is that the iPhone 4 will necessarily do more than the 3GS in China because the 3GS was never released in China.

From July:

Tim: From an iPhone point of view, with the moves that we made on 4 and iPhone 5 continuing to be the most popular model, we saw very strong sales in prepaid markets. India was up over 400%, Turkey and Poland were both up 60%. Strong iPhone sales in developed markets, too. Several regions where iPhone growth actually accelerated from previous quarter.

Sacconaghi: Notably absent from that list was China. Change different in China than elsewhere?

Tim: China was weaker than in the quarter, though the data sheet which obviously focuses on revenue doesn't tell the full story.

 

[numble]

From July:

The total iPhone growth was weaker. iPhone 4 growth at its price point necessarily grew year over year because there was no iPhone at that price point the year earlier, since they didn't release the 3GS in China. But it would be disingenuous for them to report YoY sales at that pricepoint, while it is okay to include it in the context of overall sales. Just like they talk about YoY sales of iPhone 4 compared to 3GS when the 3GS wasn't available on many carriers the year before, or how they previously reported YoY sales of iPhone 4S compared to the limited availability iPhone 4.

 

[Blackhead]

The total iPhone growth was weaker. iPhone 4 growth at its price point necessarily grew year over year because there was no iPhone at that price point the year earlier, since they didn't release the 3GS in China. But it would be disingenuous for them to report YoY sales at that pricepoint, while it is okay to include it in the context of overall sales. Just like they talk about YoY sales of iPhone 4 compared to 3GS when the 3GS wasn't available on many carriers the year before, or how they previously reported YoY sales of iPhone 4S compared to the limited availability iPhone 4.

wtf?! I don't understand what you're going on and on about there...

You said this:

Where do you get your data? According to CIRP, iPhone 4S has hovered around 30% of iPhone sales for the last year:
http://i.imgur.com/HNm3c8P.jpg

Strategy Analytics says iPhone 4S was the 2nd best selling model for at least half of the last year:

I don't see any data that says that iPhone 4 was the second best selling model last year.

I said this:

And obviously the other regions received the iPhone 5 (and accompanying iPhone 4 price drops) much later in the year...

Tim Cook's comments show that even if the iPhone 4S sold more early in the yearly release cycle (partly due to iPhone 4 supply constraints), the iPhone 4 sales grew significantly later in the following quarters.

 

[numble]

wtf?! I don't understand what you're going on and on about there...

You said this:



I said this:

Tim Cook's comments show that even if the iPhone 4S sold more early in the yearly release cycle (partly due to iPhone 4 supply constraints), the iPhone 4 sales grew significantly later in the following quarters.

Tim Cook's comments about China in the July quarter are about overall iPhone sales being weak. Any iPhone 4 sales sold in China at that time necessarily contribute to global YoY growth versus the 3GS though, because they didn't sell the 3GS in China. You personally quoted Cook's comments in the April quarter about Chinese interest in the iPhone 4, so you are somehow arguing that Cook is bragging about interest in iPhone 4 in April but claiming it didn't contribute to growth in iPhone 4 sales in July. His July statement is more likely about overall iPhone sales.

I think your problem is interpreting statements about growth to somehow translate to sales rankings. It can go from 5% of sales to 9% of sales and still show strong growth and strain supplies if they were only planning for 75% growth. Or 5% to 15%, and they were only planning on 250% growth. Growth is not surprising given the unavailability of the 3GS to many markets and it's weak sales proposition in 2011.

I still am curious about your data on the current-gen iPhone historically selling 3x the cheaper previous year model--where did that come from?

 

[Blackhead]

Tim Cook's comments about China in the July quarter are about overall iPhone sales being weak. Any iPhone 4 sales sold in China at that time necessarily contribute to global YoY growth versus the 3GS though, because they didn't sell the 3GS in China. You personally quoted Cook's comments in the April quarter about Chinese interest in the iPhone 4, so you are somehow arguing that Cook is bragging about interest in iPhone 4 in April but claiming it didn't contribute to growth in iPhone 4 sales in July. His July statement is more likely about overall iPhone sales.

I think your problem is interpreting statements about growth to somehow translate to sales rankings. It can go from 5% of sales to 9% of sales and still show strong growth and strain supplies if they were only planning for 75% growth. Or 5% to 15%, and they were only planning on 250% growth. Growth is not surprising given the unavailability of the 3GS to many markets and it's weak sales proposition in 2011.

I still am curious about your data on the current-gen iPhone historically selling 3x the cheaper previous year model--where did that come from?

And i think your problem is that you arent differentiating the Cooks comments about YoY growth from those about and quarter to quarter sales growth.

 

[numble]

And i think your problem is that you arent differentiating the Cooks comments about YoY growth from those about and quarter to quarter sales growth.

No, I don't. Most of his comments are about YoY growth, including India, Turkey and Poland comments. I still don't see where any inference can be drawn that iPhone 4 was the second best selling iPhone or that iPhone 5 was 3x iPhone 4S sales. Can you find one analyst that draws these conclusions?

 

[Scalibur]

S4 is busted so I purchased a pink 5c with a white case.

 

[B-Dex]

Loving my green C. It looks pretty awesome with the black case too.

 

[royalan]

Loving my green C. It looks pretty awesome with the black case too.

They were sold out of green when I went. ;___;

So I settled for blue...but I'm happy with it. Especially with the white case.

 

[mrkgoo]

So people have actually been buying those cases?

 

[B-Dex]

So people have actually been buying those cases?

Yes. I wanted one for when It's in my pocket/at work. Plus I really like the colour. (The green cases were the ones that sold the most at my Apple store. Judging by stock on the shelf)

 

[asdad123]

Went with ny girlfriend to upgrade her phone (she was using a 4). She was originally gonna get a 5s since I recommended it to her since its got newer hardware, but she saw the green 5c and fell in love with it instantly. I think apples got a hook for the casual market with this for sure.

Worked out better for me too since I was paying for it lol.

It looks better than I thought it would honestly.

 

[Noisepurge]

when are these available in Europe? Finland/Scandinavia specifically. Can't find preorders in any shop and no dates on apple.com

 

[Blackhead]

when are these available in Europe? Finland/Scandinavia specifically. Can't find preorders in any shop and no dates on apple.com

Apple said during the iPhone event that it would be available in over 100 countries by December. No other dates have been given.

 

[Noisepurge]

Apple said during the iPhone event that it would be available in over 100 countries by December. No other dates have been given.

allright, thanks. my regular iPhone 5 was just stolen so im struggling on whether i should wait for this or buy something else.

 

[Amory]

Got my yellow 5c today I'm so happy to be back to an iPhone from windows phone. Going on the app store for the first time was like being a kid in a candy store.

Obviously the 5s is a nicer phone with better internal specs, but man this thing is a head turner. I went out for a few hours to class and the gym and had like 5 people ask to see it / hold it and everyone said how much they liked the color.

 

[Vyer]

Got my yellow 5c today I'm so happy to be back to an iPhone from windows phone. Going on the app store for the first time was like being a kid in a candy store.

Obviously the 5s is a nicer phone with better internal specs, but man this thing is a head turner. I went out for a few hours to class and the gym and had like 5 people ask to see it / hold it and everyone said how much they liked the color.

That doesn't surprise me. When I saw it in person I thought it looked a lot better than in photos.

 

[Cronen]

I used to have an iPhone 3GS, but then upgraded to a Samsung Galaxy Nexus. Contract is up in December, and was planning on jumping on to an iPhone 5. However, now that the 5 has been removed from circulation, I think the 5C is what I'll go for instead.

The only thing I am not 100% on board with is, of course, the plastic back. That said, the more I look at pictures of it online, the more I am coming around to it.

Those with a 5C, how are you finding it?

 

[Iacobellis]

I used to have an iPhone 3GS, but then upgraded to a Samsung Galaxy Nexus. Contract is up in December, and was planning on jumping on to an iPhone 5. However, now that the 5 has been removed from circulation, I think the 5C is what I'll go for instead.

The only thing I am not 100% on board with is, of course, the plastic back. That said, the more I look at pictures of it online, the more I am coming around to it.

Those with a 5C, how are you finding it?

Feels very solid in the hand. Slightly heavier, but flatter than the old 3G/3GS back.

 

[sky]

Wish the 5s came in the 5c's form factor. Yeah I said it.

 

[Kuroyume]

These things are f'ing ugly. Why pastel colors? Is apple allergic to normal colors? Like red or blue? Even when they were putting those ugly imacs with the transparent parts they choose stupid colors like turqoiuse or fushia.