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[SapientWolf]

Would people rather have a game with great affects and graphics that runs @60 in most scenarios, except when all hell breaks loose and you get drops to 50fps...

or


A game that throttles down everything to accomodate to those rare situations, so that 95% of the time you are playing a lessor game becuase of the chance 24 people will all fire rockets at the same time.

This is how a game with dips can be considered more technically impressive than a game with none...obviously if games are identical his statement is wrong, but its not that hard to think it through, unless you dont want too for whatever reason or purpose you have.

Has any FPS of technical merit been 60 locked on consoles??

It's a shooter. Hell should be breaking loose like all the time. Hell should be in a near constant state of escape, like The Joker, or a plumber's butt crack.

Plus, I don't think the drops are gonna be limited to 50fps.

 

[Seance]

"So, having a constant 60 is not actually better than having a 'lot of the time' 60. It sounds weird, but it's actually true.

 

[DirgeExtinction]

So instead of GG claiming the usual "60 fps" phrase that other shooters tout, they were honest and real and said what always happens in FPS games, "Framerate may drop during infrequent and intense moments".

People still criticize. I'm sure neither BF4 nor CoD will be locked at 60 fps.

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

Pretty good assesment.

Another reason that article is garbage is because one of the main draws of KZ multiplayer is how team oriented it is. Partying up with your friends, choosing different classes, telling your friends you need a spawn beacon here, a support turret there...etc.

You're not going to get any of that in an Expo demo. So to say that KZ's multiplayer is "cold" is the furthest thing from the truth if you're actually playing it at home with your buds. KZ2 was one of the best multiplayer experiences last gen. If KZ:SF follows that up, despite not doing anything truly new, who cares as long as its fun?

And frankly, TitanFall isn't doing anything particularly novel either. Everything shown has been done before. I'm not a huge fan of mech based games because they tend to ruin MP (see: KZ3). We'll see if they can get it to work.

It may be because TitanFall handles and plays just like call of duty but with mechs, fast paced action that creates adrenalin rush for gameplayers who love those type of games. And neither do I prefer mech based shooters!

 

[coolasj19]

That was written by a gaffer btw.

Not commenting on the article but, does the fact that it's written by a Gaffer really mean anything?

I'm excited for KZ simply because it'll be supported for a long long time. And I don't have to pay for more standard multiplayer maps.

 

[Naudi]

This will be the first thing i play on launch day. Constant 60 or not i dont care, i know it will be amazing to look at and will also play very well

 

[slapnuts]

For being a launch title with a game looking this good with multi-player....i do NOT see any problem with this. Truth is...it looks better than PC Crysis 3 running on my 7970 Ghz Edition and 3770k at 1080p that also does not always run at a solid 60 frames per second...just "most of the time" it runs 60 frames per second on my fairly powerful PC gaming rig.

I don't know what all the fuss is about honestly

 

[slapnuts]

these consoles are old already

Mods...stuff like this needs to stay out of these threads, it's almost "ban worthy" imho..i seen plenty of people get banned for far less. These types of comments add ZERO to these threads...its just stealth trolling and not very good stealth trolling to be honest.

 

[To Far Away Times]

GTA V and IV ran sub 30FPS yet is arguably the biggest franchise in the industry. Frame rate does not affect sales.

It does, however, help pick out the devs that place visual fidelity over game play quality.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

It may be because TitanFall handles and plays just like call of duty but with mechs, fast paced action that creates adrenalin rush for gameplayers who love those type of games. And neither do I prefer mech based shooters!

What's interesting is that the person who wrote the article felt how connected CoD was when he first played it.

To me, CoD is the very definition of a pretty cold experience -- it's tailored to making you feel like a badass as a lone wolf, there's hardly any teamwork involved.

I'm getting the same vibe from TitanFall

 

[szaromir]

Mods...stuff like this needs to stay out of these threads, it's almost "ban worthy" imho..i seen plenty of people get banned for far less. These types of comments add ZERO to these threads...its just stealth trolling and not very good stealth trolling to be honest.

Read GAF rules, particularly the one about backseat moderating.

 

[OldAsUrSock]

Not really. It's up to the developers and what they feel is more important. Visual fidelity, or gameplay. Call of Duty and Titanfall put gameplay infront of everything. A lot of emphasis is put on 60FPS and minimal input lag yet COD continually get's trashed by the large majority of this forum.

Last of Us puts more emphasis on controls and with that, input lag and framerate suffer yet it was enjoyable as well. The low framerate and input lag serve that game well and for what it's going for.

No it does not. Only BF fanboys trash COD on here. TLOU was a complete mess. My most anticipated game this year =(

 

[Bollocks]

What's so funny about that?
They develop AAA games, they know their stuff.

 

[BigTnaples]

This is perfectly fine by me. In Guerrilla I trust.

 

[tfur]

Not interested in a COD clone. The worst parts of the modern fps genre is because of COD.

Hopefully this will be as good or better than KZ2 MP.

 

[RSTEIN]

This is perfectly fine by me. In Guerrilla I trust.

Really? You trust anyone that says

Running 60 has become this Holy Grail. Suddenly people think if you run 60 your game is better. Technically, that's not really true.

So, having a constant 60 is not actually better than having a 'lot of the time' 60. It sounds weird, but it's actually true.

Really?

 

[Raistlin]

Really? You trust anyone that says





Really?

Yes, because I understand context

 

[kortez320]

I'm a PC gamer mostly. I guess it's impressive that the KZ multiplayer will be an unlocked 60 frames.

But the idea that 'some of the time' 60 is as good as all the time 60 is a bold faced lie.

For guys not used to sixty it will be glorious I'm sure but let's not let the hyperbole get too out of control.

 

[Dragon]

Read GAF rules, particularly the one about backseat moderating.

Giggle

I'm a PC gamer mostly. I guess it's impressive that the KZ multiplayer will be an unlocked 60 frames.

But the idea that 'some of the time' 60 is as good as all the time 60 is a bold faced lie.

For guys not used to sixty it will be glorious I'm sure but let's not let the hyperbole get too out of control.

The term is bald faced lie. Not bold.

 

[Insane Metal]

Not commenting on the article but, does the fact that it's written by a Gaffer really mean anything?

I'm excited for KZ simply because it'll be supported for a long long time. And I don't have to pay for more standard multiplayer maps.

Uh I don't know man, I just posted that because I remember the dude saying he wrote that previews, nothing else.

 

[Hollow]

Call of Duty has frequent framerate drops into the 30s on the 360 but they happen so quickly most people don't notice them. They use a nice frame buffer as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kZ7TTlGExA

Without actually seeing what the drops look like on Killzone I think a lot of people are kneejerking.

 

[Night Angel]

Yes, because I understand context

Ding ding ding! We have a winner here, folks!

In this case, Guerrilla was explaining that they found that the tradeoffs for a COMPLETELY STABLE 60fps were not worth it compared to the results they achieved.

Amazing how few readers know how to read.

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

What's interesting is that the person who wrote the article felt how connected CoD was when he first played it.

To me, CoD is the very definition of a pretty cold experience -- it's tailored to making you feel like a badass as a lone wolf, there's hardly any teamwork involved.

I'm getting the same vibe from TitanFall

There are gamers out there who enjoy the lone wolf experience, and just as much as I love the badass lonewolf experience I find the objectives that foster teamwork in Warzone as a thoroughly enjoyable and memorable experience. God I miss the good old days of Warzone on KZ2

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

Via Eurogamer

Aesthetically the design of this battleground had little to speak of outside of some occasionally surprising ambient lighting. Running through an underground tunnel to turn a corner and have a spotlight’s beam of white light trumpet down upon you is beauteous in that initial moment, captured like a rabbit in headlights. There did appear to be an over wash of motion blurring coating all the textures bar the main weapon, which remained immune to most lighting effects, when in movement.

This was confirmed when the machine next to mine froze and the blurring could be seen on the static screen. The technical shine many will come here expecting at launch will have been saved for the single player campaign. It’s not unusual for multiplayer to take a hit in its graphical prowess to keep things running smooth. Here the focus was on maintaining a constant frame rate which did visibly dip at times

via http://www.thunderboltgames.com/preview/eurogamer-expo-2013-killzone-shadow-fall-multiplayer-hands-on

 

[Spinluck]

All this overreacting will be for nothing as usual.

 

[demolitio]

I guess everyone will extra sensitive when BF4 on consoles drops a bit during high intensity scenes?

 

[TOYCOFFIN]

So can anyone provide a list of shooters that never drop any frames. Reading the thread I'm guessing there are tons.

You'd be hard pressed to find a single game that doesn't drap any frames, let alone a shooter.

 

[boredandlazy]

I guess everyone will extra sensitive when BF4 on consoles drops a bit during high intensity scenes?

Mainly the PC players who won't even be playing it.

 

[valkillmore]

All this overreacting will be for nothing as usual.

It's never for nothing here. Never.

 

[oconnomiyaki]

But the idea that 'some of the time' 60 is as good as all the time 60 is a bold faced lie.

Uh, no it's not. The context here is that it's better for it to look better on general and occasionally bog down than look worse but always pulling 60fps. They only have to say this shit because Leadbetter and his Digital Foundry trolls-in-arms will dissect the shit out of it in the most mundane way possible to get page views. Shame to see GG get blasted for being open about it.

 

[Binabik15]

Call of Duty has frequent framerate drops into the 30s on the 360 but they happen so quickly most people don't notice them. They use a nice frame buffer as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kZ7TTlGExA

Without actually seeing what the drops look like on Killzone I think a lot of people are kneejerking.

This can't be true, they say it's a 60 fps game! Everyone knows!


Not "mostly 60", 60. Why would a dev just go on record about their framerate and not tell about performance hiccups? Or why would technically minded and ever vigilant reviewers nit mention it? Those reviewer guys are so hardcore they must notice drops!.

GG is stupid face!

PS: Sorry, bleeding like a stuck pig makes me too cranky for this thread and the rather laughable claims in here about 60 fps games having 60 fps minimum ALL the time.

 

[TOYCOFFIN]

I'm a PC gamer mostly. I guess it's impressive that the KZ multiplayer will be an unlocked 60 frames.

But the idea that 'some of the time' 60 is as good as all the time 60 is a bold faced lie.

For guys not used to sixty it will be glorious I'm sure but let's not let the hyperbole get too out of control.

Maybe if you read the article and understood anything they were saying or the context with which it was said, you wouldn't think it was a "bold" faced lie.

 

[Moral Panic]

My main problem is that the gaffer who played it said it dropped as low as 15fps. There's a huge difference between 50-60fps and 30-60 fps and 15-60fps.

Personally a game that yo-yos between 30 and 60 is pretty unplayable. Adaptive vsync or whatever this thing it is caused is pretty terrible.

 

[FeiRR]

I guess everyone will extra sensitive when BF4 on consoles drops a bit during high intensity scenes?

Depends how much it drops. I survived below 10 drops in BF:BC2 (Atacama Desert was the worst) and same in BF3 at launch (Bay of Oman at C flag in CQ, ough). The game improved a lot, and I mean A LOT, with patches. I don't think you'll notice 60>40 dips at all unless you're watching a recorded match. The problem with BF3 is that it crashes sometimes on two specific maps (Bazaar and Seine), that's annoying.

Eurogamer Expo attenders reported BF4 crash a lot on X1 and half of the stations were out of order, even some X1 dying there during the game. But it may be the quality of Microsoft's hardware and their infamous driver... But I'm not really optimistic about smooth launch experience. It never was the case and now we're at generation launch. I expect the game will be very buggy and the servers will die a lot.

 

[Hoje0308]

My main problem is that the gaffer who played it said it dropped as low as 15fps. There's a huge difference between 50-60fps and 30-60 fps and 15-60fps.

Personally a game that yo-yos between 30 and 60 is pretty unplayable. Adaptive vsync or whatever this thing it is caused is pretty terrible.

We've heard varying reports from Gaffers, some even saying that their experiences differed dramatically from one hands-on to the next. We don't know how old the builds are, or what kind of progress GG have made in the intervening time. If the people involved are honest enough to tell us the truth about frame dips and the details of their online system (they could have just said "60 FPS, dedicated servers" and been done with it), I'm inclined to believe them when they say that current builds stay very close to 60, except under extreme conditions. Either way, we'll know soon enough.

Spoiler

46 days, 23 hours, 49 minutes and 47,46,45,44,43...

 

[Booker Dewitt]

Call of Duty has frequent framerate drops into the 30s on the 360 but they happen so quickly most people don't notice them. They use a nice frame buffer as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kZ7TTlGExA

Without actually seeing what the drops look like on Killzone I think a lot of people are kneejerking.

That's a video from the singleplayer though, where Infinity Ward could afford the drops without affecting the experience, especially since there's minimal player control in those sequences. Granted a different game, but Digital Foundry found that Black Ops 2 multiplayer on 360 kept a steady 60fps for the most part, with a few drops to 55fps.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-black-ops-2-face-off

Results in multiplayer are excellent. We have the smoothest response we could ask for during play, with only occasional dips to 55FPS whenever smoke grenades or spark effects fill the screen. This falls in line with performance habits for previous entries in the series, where processing these buffers proved to be the weakest point in the rendering chain.

But yeah, if the dev is referring to drops to low fifties occasionally, this probably won't be much of a problem. But his statement is a bit vague and I understand some of the worry.

 

[StoopKid]

My main problem is that the gaffer who played it said it dropped as low as 15fps. There's a huge difference between 50-60fps and 30-60 fps and 15-60fps.

Personally a game that yo-yos between 30 and 60 is pretty unplayable. Adaptive vsync or whatever this thing it is caused is pretty terrible.

I highly doubt gg is going to ship a game like that .

 

[kitanii]

My main problem is that the gaffer who played it said it dropped as low as 15fps. There's a huge difference between 50-60fps and 30-60 fps and 15-60fps.

Personally a game that yo-yos between 30 and 60 is pretty unplayable. Adaptive vsync or whatever this thing it is caused is pretty terrible.

Which build? You can be sure that's not the case in its current state.
Usually I'd agree with the 30-60 fluctuation, but some games (Metro Last Light) does this perfectly. I have a framerate between 45-60 most of the time, but in some cases it can drop to ~34. Even though this happens the controls are responsive as hell. Just like when you were in the 60s. And it's still smooth like butter.

 

[zoukka]

Awesome that they at least try to reach as high of a framerate as possible for the MP. What a great trend this is and it only serves the gamer.

 

[viveks86]

Off topic, but not sure if this was posted.

Looks like we would be seeing lots of single player footage soon!

Geoff Keighley
‏@geoffkeighley
Had a great visit this week with @Guerrilla_Games to check out @killzone Shadow Fall. Lots of new footage coming in Oct to GTTV.

nbnt ‏@nbnt 28 Sep
@geoffkeighley Please tell me it's new SP footage

Geoff Keighley ‏@geoffkeighley 28 Sep
@nbnt Yes definitely

https://twitter.com/geoffkeighley/status/384118490187059200

 

[Night Angel]

Off topic, but not sure if this was posted.

Looks like we would be seeing lots of single player footage soon!



https://twitter.com/geoffkeighley/status/384118490187059200

Great news! Can't wait to see it. Thanks for the update. (Not that off topic... at least it's about Killzone.)

 

[Accident]

Call of Duty has frequent framerate drops into the 30s on the 360 but they happen so quickly most people don't notice them. They use a nice frame buffer as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kZ7TTlGExA

Without actually seeing what the drops look like on Killzone I think a lot of people are kneejerking.

In multiplayer, COD averages 60 fps and it never drops below mid 50s on 360.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Off topic, but not sure if this was posted.

Looks like we would be seeing lots of single player footage soon!



https://twitter.com/geoffkeighley/status/384118490187059200

Hnnnnnnng can't wait to see dat progress

 

[HORRORSHØW]

Off topic, but not sure if this was posted.

Looks like we would be seeing lots of single player footage soon!



https://twitter.com/geoffkeighley/status/384118490187059200

Fuck yes. Can't wait to see more of that SP action.

 

[Hollow]

In multiplayer, COD averages 60 fps and it never drops below mid 50s on 360.

Is there an analysis of the framerate in multi?

I can't find anything.

 

[Radec]

Yes, because I understand context

.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

Yes, because I understand context

So it's a comprise, a design decision.

This sounds familiar...

 

[RoboPlato]

Off topic, but not sure if this was posted.

Looks like we would be seeing lots of single player footage soon!



https://twitter.com/geoffkeighley/status/384118490187059200

I'm going to stay the hell away from that. GT spoiled the shit out of GoW3 and claimed it was spoiler free.

 

[Metalmurphy]

So it's a comprise, a design decision.

This sounds familiar...

Seriously? You're really trying to compare the two? One is actually bumping the framerate for multiplayer and maintaining the resolution, the other one is dropping the resolution and maintaining the 30fps framerate (if that, I haven't seen any footage with stable 30fps yet).

 

[Opus Angelorum]

Seriously? You're really trying to compare the two? One is actually bumping the framerate for multiplayer and maintaining the resolution, the other one is dropping the resolution and maintaining the 30fps framerate (if that, I haven't seen any footage with stable 30fps yet).

The Order: "It's an artistic choice"
DriveClub: "It allows for more environmental detail"
Killzone: "It runs better because it isn't 60fps all of the time, about the context"
Ryse: "The hardware sucks!"
Killer Instinct: "The hardware sucks!"

I'm all for pointing out technical compromises, but it seems (to me) one system is getting a pass.