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[OverHeat]

Love the peasants who try to downplay the graphics seriously it’s on another level of everything

 

[Rudius]

That would be a high end PC 100% of the time.

But at what settings?

 

[Represent.]

But it didn't. The best looking games from this gen look notably better than the best of last gen in one way or another (which include Callisto Protocol, Demon's Souls, Forbidden West, and Alan Wake 2). And that's just in that realistic, gritty style. Ratchet remains not only king for that style of visuals, but far ahead of last gen's efforts of that kind.

Not trying to downplay Hellbalde, but this idea that it's the first of its kind is simply not true. It loses out to some of the games I mentioned in certain areas too (lack of pathtracing/raytracing, environmental textures are not the best we've seen, water, hair, etc). The more I play it, the more I see some of these minor weaknesses. However, I'd still keep it at or near the top because it truly is a splendor overall.

Hellblade 2 absolutely crushes all of these games

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Depends on where you rank the OG UE5 PS5 demo compared to the DS, Callisto, TLOU, HFW and AW2.

Hellblade does lighting, environment and characters better than any other game out there. some games do come close like alan wake 2, callisto and tlou1 in cutscenes but this game is in a league of its own thanks to nanite, lumen and other UE5 features that were present in the UE5 PS5 demo but missing in every single game released since.

If you are one of those who believe the matrix demo and ue5 demo havent been topped then you believe TLOU1, Callisto, AW2 havent gotten there yet. This game gets us there and then some.

Nanite lets them push more high quality assets than ever before. It is mind boggling how detailed and varied some of these rock textures are. And they dont feel painted on like they do in TLOU and other last gen games. they feel individually modeled.

The lighting is as photorealistic and cg quality as we have seen in a game before. other games like AW2, HFW and callisto have their moments but during very specific lighting scenarios and not as often. this game feels next gen 99% of the time, and legit cg/photorealistic from time to time which is completely missing from those other games.

The water effects both for ocean waves and small streams are ahead of sony's best which is expected considering hfw and tlou were held back by the ps4 hardware. i have chronicled water gifs of both games if you are interested.

And finally, character models. There are times this bitch looks real. TLOU1 and Callisto were the queen and king of character models but they have been topped. Her facial animations are too exaggerated at times so she doesnt look great while talking but any other time, im hard pressed to find flaws and am constantly having to tell my brain that im watching a game instead of a tv show.

Id highly suggest you boot up tlou1, horizon and the other games you mentioned. even if you played them recently, it will become apparent as you switch between these games thanks to lumen, nanite, and the sheer cg quality wizardry on display here by Ninja Theory's artists.

Sony studios maybe more talented but they all tied themselves to last gen hardware or 60 fps modes, we shall see what they come up with at e3, but now the gauntlet has been thrown and Ninja Theory holds the crown. Hopefully this is the kick up the bum most other studios needed.

Character models/lighting? Sure, I could give it those. Environments? Depends. Other games have higher quality textures than what I've seen here, but Hellblade has some of the most rounded rocks I've seen. Then again, I've not argued against its overall superiority. In fact, I've done nothing but support it. It is the hyperbolic stuff that I debated.

Represent.

Cool.

 

[Little Chicken]

- Lighting? Other games are at least as good.

- Character models? Sure, Senua is about as good as it gets. But "nothing even close"?

Sorry but immediately you can tell this is a screenshot from a game.

There are times where the character models in HB2 look like actual footage of actors.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Sorry but immediately you can tell this is a screenshot from a game.

There are times where the character models in HB2 look like actual footage of actors.

I mean, every screenshot from Hellblade I can tell is a game. Then again, I'm a character artist, so I can tell that from any game really.

Regardless, you'll find that I largely agree. Senua is the best character model out there and was in 2017 when the original released.

 

[DanielG165]

From the footage in the video the series X version holds up very well. The PC version with dlss is definitely sharper though. My 3080 cannot handle native 4k with DLAA well but I did it just to take a look and man the game is just so fucking stunning

Yeah man, this game is making my 2080S sweat lol, but it’s still holding up super well at 1440p DLSS.

 

[FireFly]

No. It doesn't work like that. Run-time resources are finite so its extremely important what the scope and dynamics are. This game uses a very constrained set of design parameters and because of that they can really load up on the resource allocation for each element. This goes to everything from geometry to textures/shading, lighting and VFX pipe through to animation.

Its not "cheating" but they've been very judicious when picking their battles. The reality is that we saw what the game looked like 4 years ago, and in 4 years its mostly maintained not advanced its presentation despite all those man-hours of work subsequently lavished on it.

Bigger teams might allow you to do more of the same, but not necessarily more with greater scope and dynamics because the real limitation is what happens at run-time. Not everything can exist in memory at the same time, and the more links and blends required is more cost. More dynamics and variety further heaps on the challenge because it gives the creators less space and options to hide the bits that disrupt the illusion.

That's true but it depends what you mean by increasing the scale. Nanite and virtual texturing work to scale detail based on what you can see on screen at a given time, while the world space partitioning system means you only need to load what's in your current "cell". So you could have an environment that is much bigger in size, but not significantly more complex on a "per screen" basis. And even on a per screen basis, with smart optimization you might be able to get more models on screen without noticeably degrading the quality of the animation and shader work.

 

[Dusktildawn48]

That would artistically take away the game’s specific look. Go look at the videos where people have gone into the files to turn said effects off; the game looks “game-y” that way.

I turned off CA, can't stand it in any game.

 

[Gambit2483]

Love the peasants who try to downplay the graphics seriously it’s on another level of everything

Pretty sure no one is downplaying the graphics...that's not the issue.

 

[DanielG165]

Pretty sure no one is downplaying the graphics...that's not the issue.

There isn’t really an “issue” in the first place, just differing opinions.

 

[Gambit2483]

There isn’t really an “issue” in the first place, just differing opinions.

There's clearly an issue. Otherwise the Review thread wouldn't already be over 2k replies

 

[Lysandros]

John in no way is a 'big PlayStation fan'. If he is, he is doing a damn good job hiding it.

 

[Snake29]

Depends on where you rank the OG UE5 PS5 demo compared to the DS, Callisto, TLOU, HFW and AW2.

Hellblade does lighting, environment and characters better than any other game out there. some games do come close like alan wake 2, callisto and tlou1 in cutscenes but this game is in a league of its own thanks to nanite, lumen and other UE5 features that were present in the UE5 PS5 demo but missing in every single game released since.

If you are one of those who believe the matrix demo and ue5 demo havent been topped then you believe TLOU1, Callisto, AW2 havent gotten there yet. This game gets us there and then some.

Nanite lets them push more high quality assets than ever before. It is mind boggling how detailed and varied some of these rock textures are. And they dont feel painted on like they do in TLOU and other last gen games. they feel individually modeled.

The lighting is as photorealistic and cg quality as we have seen in a game before. other games like AW2, HFW and callisto have their moments but during very specific lighting scenarios and not as often. this game feels next gen 99% of the time, and legit cg/photorealistic from time to time which is completely missing from those other games.

The water effects both for ocean waves and small streams are ahead of sony's best which is expected considering hfw and tlou were held back by the ps4 hardware. i have chronicled water gifs of both games if you are interested.

And finally, character models. There are times this bitch looks real. TLOU1 and Callisto were the queen and king of character models but they have been topped. Her facial animations are too exaggerated at times so she doesnt look great while talking but any other time, im hard pressed to find flaws and am constantly having to tell my brain that im watching a game instead of a tv show.

Id highly suggest you boot up tlou1, horizon and the other games you mentioned. even if you played them recently, it will become apparent as you switch between these games thanks to lumen, nanite, and the sheer cg quality wizardry on display here by Ninja Theory's artists.

Sony studios maybe more talented but they all tied themselves to last gen hardware or 60 fps modes, we shall see what they come up with at e3, but now the gauntlet has been thrown and Ninja Theory holds the crown. Hopefully this is the kick up the bum most other studios needed.

While HB2 is impressive looking. These shots also show directly that it's just a game and why i think comparing it with HFW which already has high quality models with the scale of the game. HB2 shows what you can do with graphics if the rest of the game is limited and almost onrails. It's like you always walk on a small sidewalk and nothing more. HFW is in that case already a bigger achievement with all the different mechanics, enemies on screens, graphics, ai etc.

Not to downplay HB2, but it's not that impressive when the rest is just bare bones. At this point i'm curious if we are not here just complementing Epic Games with their Unreal Engine 5 instead of Ninja Theorie who is using their tools to create the game. Imo EPIC Games deliverd a flexible engine with flexible tools and a lot of assets with Photogrammetry assets. While devs can implement their own scans. Every capable developer can achieve this with the toolsets. And since Metahuman is almost plug and play. We've already seen a lot of UE5 tech demo exemples, and HB2 looks and feels like the first fully playable UE5 techdemo with all bells and wistles enabled, but for me again, it shows more what kind of work EPIC did with the engine then call it some "wizardy" from the dev itself".

 

[DanielG165]

There's clearly an issue. Otherwise the Review thread wouldn't already be over 2k replies

Ah, well I don’t venture over there, and for good reason from the sounds of it.

 

[midnightAI]

Not to downplay HB2, but it's not that impressive when the rest is just bare bones. At this point i'm curious if we are not here just complementing Epic Games with their Unreal Engine 5 instead of Ninja Theorie who is using their tools to create the game. Imo EPIC Games deliverd a flexible engine with flexible tools and a lot of assets with Photogrammetry assets. While devs can implement their own scans. Every capable developer can achieve this with the toolsets. And since Metahuman is almost plug and play. We've already seen a lot of UE5 tech demo exemples, and HB2 looks and feels like the first fully playable UE5 techdemo with all bells and wistles enabled, but for me again, it shows more what kind of work EPIC did with the engine then call it some "wizardy" from the dev itself".

I cant disagree with that, even though Ninja Theory has done a lot to create the atmosphere that is going on, a lot of it is down to UE5 and I;m sure NT wouldn't argue with that. There are actually quite a lot of smaller solo projects that people have done in UE5 that are just single scenes but do show how good the UE5 tools really are, they arent up to Hellblade 2 standard, but a lot of these were done by a single person in a short space of time. UE5 is very impressive for what it can do, it's just a shame that this gen of consoles cant get the best out of it without compromises (such as low res/low framerate)

 

[DanielG165]

but for me again, it shows more what kind of work EPIC did with the engine then call it some "wizardy" from the dev itself"

While I hear your opinion, and agree on the notion that UE5 is wonderful… I also don’t want to downplay the work that the developers themselves have done and accomplished. The engine didn’t do the work nor create the specific art style and atmosphere for them. UE5 is shaping up to be an incredible engine, and thus tool for developers to use, but Ninja Theory are also made up of a bunch of talented people who came together to make this project happen and look as incredible as it does.

 

[Balducci30]

I

While HB2 is impressive looking. These shots also show directly that it's just a game and why i think comparing it with HFW which already has high quality models with the scale of the game. HB2 shows what you can do with graphics if the rest of the game is limited and almost onrails. It's like you always walk on a small sidewalk and nothing more. HFW is in that case already a bigger achievement with all the different mechanics, enemies on screens, graphics, ai etc.

Not to downplay HB2, but it's not that impressive when the rest is just bare bones. At this point i'm curious if we are not here just complementing Epic Games with their Unreal Engine 5 instead of Ninja Theorie who is using their tools to create the game. Imo EPIC Games deliverd a flexible engine with flexible tools and a lot of assets with Photogrammetry assets. While devs can implement their own scans. Every capable developer can achieve this with the toolsets. And since Metahuman is almost plug and play. We've already seen a lot of UE5 tech demo exemples, and HB2 looks and feels like the first fully playable UE5 techdemo with all bells and wistles enabled, but for me again, it shows more what kind of work EPIC did with the engine then call it some "wizardy" from the dev itself".

I think most people here are excited more by the prospect of UE5’s capabilities more than Ninja Theory’s ability. The fact that an 80 person team created something that looks like this, even if it is limited - on current gen hardware - is incredible. The excitement around the visuals is largely because it’s the first game to truly breakthrough this way and show the promise of the engine. Which means the future is promising graphically

 

[Snake29]

While I hear your opinion, and agree on the notion that UE5 is wonderful… I also don’t want to downplay the work that the developers themselves have done and accomplished. The engine didn’t do the work nor create the specific art style and atmosphere for them. UE5 is shaping up to be an incredible engine, and thus tool for developers to use, but Ninja Theory are also made up of a bunch of talented people who came together to make this project happen and look as incredible as it does.

It's just how i look at it right now. Take away all characters from the game, and it just looks like one of those random UE5 landscape techdemo's. Sure NT did a great job with this, but when single artists or developers can already create small demo's that already look "unreal", compared with all the talk here around the demo. For me it's just raises the question who we really complementing here. The engine maker with their flexible tools and easy to use character creation tool metahuman or the developers behind the game?

It's easy to downplay other games for graphics, while imo, a game like HFW is much more impressive with all the high quality visuals on top of the open world, air and sea and all the mechanics, npc's, combat and gameplay around it. The new Death Stranding game also showed how freaking powerful Decima Engine is.

That's why i think that every capable developer, let's say the world class Sony devs, can achieve this easily or go even beyond this with UE5. Not because of the developer alone but more the Engine and tools around it.

 

[Balducci30]

I mean, every screenshot from Hellblade I can tell is a game. Then again, I'm a character artist, so I can tell that from any game really.

Regardless, you'll find that I largely agree. Senua is the best character model out there and was in 2017 when the original released.

these look like a game? Not being snide genuinely asking your opinion

 

[Snake29]

these look like a game? Not being snide genuinely asking your opinion

A lot of visual elements are giving it away. It's not that hard to see. A lot of AAA games have character models that come close to this, so it's not hard to see.

This screenshot (4 years old) is from an open world MMO scifi game: (comparing it with your last shot).

 

[T-0800]

The difference between Nintendo and some of these other studios is that Nintendo create a fun core mechanic and then build a game around it. These other studios build a world and then don't know what to do with it.

 

[Mortisfacio]

A lot of visual elements are giving it away. It's not that hard to see. A lot of AAA games have character models that come close to this, so it's not hard to see.

Which AAA looks close to this? Genuine question. Because TLOU2, Forbidden West, CP2077, etc. all look clearly inferior. Not to say those aren't good and in some ways arguably more impressive (linear game vs open world), but I would by no means call it close.

 

[Monokrom]

It looks good. Hopefully they'll release a PS5 version before MS shutting Ninja Theory down.

 

[Snake29]

Which AAA looks close to this? Genuine question. Because TLOU2, Forbidden West, CP2077, etc. all look clearly inferior. Not to say those aren't good and in some ways arguably more impressive (linear game vs open world), but I would by no means call it close.

You already named them, including Death Standing, Callisto Protocol, Death Stranding 2. I think Senua doesn't really look that good compared to some other HB2 characters. And a lot of the post-processing hides a lot of weak elements in the game.

 

[NuclearDiarrhea]

I think we should just give Xbox the win just this once because im actually worried for some Xbox fanboys on here.

 

[Kings Field]

Like I said before, graphics, atmosphere, and sound are all top notch.

Gameplay is lacking.

 

[adamsapple]

A lot of visual elements are giving it away. It's not that hard to see. A lot of AAA games have character models that come close to this, so it's not hard to see.

This screenshot (4 years old) is from an open world MMO scifi game: (comparing it with your last shot).

What are you trying to highlight with this picture? It looks like a close up of a mid-late PS4 character with porcelain like features.

It doesn't look better than TLoU Remastered, comparing it with HB2 is laughable.

 

[Balducci30]

A lot of visual elements are giving it away. It's not that hard to see. A lot of AAA games have character models that come close to this, so it's not hard to see.

This screenshot (4 years old) is from an open world MMO scifi game: (comparing it with your last shot).

I must be blind because to me this doesn’t look close. And neither do any of the AAA games I’ve played - and I’ve played them all (ps5 versions)

 

[FlyyGOD]

It is definitely the game I needed to regain faith in what this generation can do (on these consoles too) with UE5 on a visual level and graphic fidelity.....

Now I can imagine that games of this level of fidelity may be available to a greater number of Studios beyond the recognized Top ones.
You could say that it is what most of us expected to have arrived 3 years ago after that UE5 demo.

It truly the 1st game this gen that looks like a next gen game.

 

[Fafalada]

Like I said I’m only judging off videos of this game vs having played the others - but people are saying it looks better when playing it. Which is insane because it’s a clear step above the others.

The very limited scope is a major differentiator when you are filling the world with lots of relatively unique detail.
It's what already elevated the original game, and it's turned up to 11 here - there's no redundant gamey elements to the world that they worry about. Turning this fidelity into a large scale playable world would be exponentially more expensive.

Actually - best comparison for what this game does is Quantic Dream games - Detroit especially. Production values there were at a similar level - just constrained by the different software and much weaker hardware it ran on.

 

[DavidGzz]

I miss the days when the gaming was all about fun. Nowadays, it's just visual, 60fps 4k, 8k, 120fps, high graphic boring stuff.

Indy games couldn't be more prevalent today. Please.

 

[recursive]

Its a visual masterpiece - Shows why graphics fucking matter. Point blank.

Yea would be even better if there was some more gameplay. Gameplay >>>>>>> graphics always.

 

[Musilla]

Crazy

 

[adamsapple]

Crazy

The water tracing both on characters and the geometry is fantastic.

There are segments in the game, one is highlighted in the video as well, where you have to run from point to point to avoid something, in those areas there's a lot of dust and tiny rocks on the floor and every time shit happens, all those stones and dust shift quickly left and right. That little detail was really impressive to my eyes.

There's a couple of other UE5 based games coming soon. STALKER 2, Silent Hill 2 Remake etc, and I doubt they'll have this kind of fidelity.

 

[Snake29]

What are you trying to highlight with this picture? It looks like a close up of a mid-late PS4 character with porcelain like features.

It doesn't look better than TLoU Remastered, comparing it with HB2 is laughable.

If that is mid-late PS4 like character for you, then you've really missed out good looking characters for all these years. And i'm showing here a 4 your old screenshot i took in this game (maybe you can find out what game it is). It's not some recent shot, so these models are already heavily improved.

But i'm not suprised when Xbox is your main platform lol.

 

[MikeM]

Game looks great- no doubt about it. And it seems clear by their Frankenstein PC/Series X that a 60fps VRR mode should have been there day 1.

 

[adamsapple]

If that is mid-late PS4 like character for you, then you've really missed out good looking characters for all these years.

But i'm not suprised when Xbox is your main platform lol.

You said it's from a 4 year old MMO, which is literally near the end of the PS4 gen (2020).

I'm not sure the point you're trying to make, other than thinly veiled dog whistling.

 

[March Climber]

The difference between Nintendo and some of these other studios is that Nintendo create a fun core mechanic and then build a game around it. These other studios build a world and then don't know what to do with it.

This is literally that moment in a youtube skit (like MightyKeef) where Sony and MS are arguing, then Nintendo randomly chimes in to pat itself on the back and they both look at him and ask, ‘wait, why are you here Nintendo?’

 

[NeptuneCL]

The game looks absolutely stunning!

 

[HeWhoWalks]

these look like a game? Not being snide genuinely asking your opinion

They all look like a game. Yes.

 

[Snake29]

You said it's from a 4 year old MMO, which is literally near the end of the PS4 gen (2020).

I'm not sure the point you're trying to make, other than thinly veiled dog whistling.

I was comparing it with the last shot, because of the angle. The point is, that skin tone and skin shaders where already high quality back then. And this is just one shot of it.

 

[adamsapple]

YT compression doesn't do it justice but the whole Ingunn Giant segment is probably one of the most visually impressive set-pieces in any game yet.

Highly recommend anyone who has a capable PC or either new Xbox to give it a shot once just for the audio-visual experience alone.

The later bosses are also great but I really liked the way the music is timed to all that's happening on screen. Kinda like Nier.

 

[Mr Moose]

The water interaction, at least at the start, is a bit shit. In the first scene the waves don't hit the characters properly, and the puddles react like jelly rather than water when walking over them.

 

[Chiggs]

Gaf the first three years of this Gen when dev after dev sacrificed visuals: why do games still look like ps4 era games?

Gaf when a next Gen game finally arrives:

 

[HeWhoWalks]

The water interaction, at least at the start, is a bit shit. In the first scene the waves don't hit the characters properly, and the puddles react like jelly rather than water when walking over them.

Yeah, the water physics isn't one of the game's strong suits.

 

[SlimySnake]

It's just how i look at it right now. Take away all characters from the game, and it just looks like one of those random UE5 landscape techdemo's. Sure NT did a great job with this, but when single artists or developers can already create small demo's that already look "unreal", compared with all the talk here around the demo. For me it's just raises the question who we really complementing here. The engine maker with their flexible tools and easy to use character creation tool metahuman or the developers behind the game?

This is the fifth ue5 game and nothing has even come close to this level of fidelity. if it was this easy everyone would be doing it.

It's easy to downplay other games for graphics, while imo, a game like HFW is much more impressive with all the high quality visuals on top of the open world, air and sea and all the mechanics, npc's, combat and gameplay around it. The new Death Stranding game also showed how freaking powerful Decima Engine is.

and yet you are downplaying hellblade 2 which looks better than both death stranding and hfw just because its not open world. whats next? tlou2 isnt impressive because its not open world?

That's why i think that every capable developer, let's say the world class Sony devs, can achieve this easily or go even beyond this with UE5. Not because of the developer alone but more the Engine and tools around it.

Sure, UE5 is amazing and in the right hands, it will let them achieve these visuals. Only problem is that no one else has achieved this, let alone easily. especially sony devs who have made cross gen games that dont have access to features like lumen, nanite and draw distance.

Then you have geniuses like ND, Insomniac and Bluepoint who decided to target 60 fps or native 4k resolutions despite being given the greenlight to make next gen only games. I am sorry, they tried and failed. Mission failed, we will get them next time.

now is the time to praise Ninja THeory, not some Sony dev who have not made a game with UE5 or features with UE5. At least Ubisoft Massive and Remedy used mesh shaders, and Respawn and Massive have used RTGI which is even more accurate than Lumen. Sony studios have not used RTGI and aside from Insomniac, not a single sony studio has used any kind of rt feature. Sorry, but this is the one time i wont stan for sony studios. they delivered in 2020, 2021 and 2022 when ms was asleep, but last two years they have been shown up by massive and other studios. And this year, ninja theory has shown just how far behind those sony studios really are. when they show up with these visuals, UE5 or not then i will give them their due credit.

until then, lets celebrate ninja theory today.

 

[Snake29]

Such a bullshit statement. You can say that NT sacrificed everything else only to look nice . And i don’t think the majority of the gamers are asking for that.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

now is the time to praise Ninja THeory

I hope phil shuts this studio down because this isnt video games. this is torture.

The duality of man

 

[Chiggs]

Such a bullshit statement. You can say that NT sacrificed everything else only to look nice . And i don’t think the majority of the gamers are asking for that.

If I could appreciate The Order: 1886 for its incredible visuals, then I can appreciate Hellblade 2.

Neither game is my cup of tea...but they're both undeniably beautiful games.