Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
Ah forget it.
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Digital Foundry: Microsoft to unlock more GPU power for Xbox One developers
- Thread starter DaSorcerer7
- Start date
SHADES
Member
Sorry old chap, wrong end of the stick, which at this hour isn't unusual for me
Zatoichi's Cane
Member
Sword Of Doom
Member
WTF?!?!?!!??!?!?!?! if i didn't know you, I'd say you are crazy
Been a long day brother
SHADES
Member
Nah, not even misterxmedia can get that plate to spin.
SwiftDeath
Member
Wishmaster92
Member
PS4
XBone
Is this our first comparison?
edit: Just catching up on the thread and saw other comparison shots. The difference is not as huge compared to these shots, i think.
SwiftDeath
Member
Is this our first comparison?
No not really
NoirVisage
Banned
you're the one who is misunderstanding, he's adding to your post, he agrees with you.
The Xbox One, as per all publicly available information, has a number of dedicated hardware units that I see devs getting better at making use of for their specific purposes over time. This isn't about secret sauce bs, which I'm pretty sure is where trolls want to take this one.
-- The 3 display planes, 2 of which I think are available to devs. They seem pretty helpful for dynamic resolutions and could possibly have interesting uses for LOD purpose.
-- The 4 move engines, 2 of which comes with hardware specifically designed for LZ decompression and compression. Beyond that they seem pretty crucial for better leveraging the system's ESRAM and saving bandwidth wherever possible, so this seems like one of the more obvious aspects of the Xbox One that devs will possibly become better at making use of as they get more experience with the system. 3 of these are directly available to developers, whereas one is reserved for use by the system and appears automatically managed through Direct3D helping with specific game operations.
-- The SHAPE audio block, something devs have full access to, is another thing I can see devs using better with time, especially since it can help by offloading from the CPU some processing requirements as it pertains to audio. The LZ compression and decompression hardware on the move engines are also something that can help the CPU.
So no matter how you look at it, this is a fair bit of dedicated hardware that's directly under the control of game developers. Common sense suggests that developers will become smarter about how they use these things over the life of the Xbox One. To think otherwise would be ludicrous, and this in no way suggests a belief in magical, secret sauce hardware. Fact is they're all in there and available to developers for a reason. Expecting Xbox One developers to have a full grasp on how best to use all of this on day one would be like expecting PS4 developers to make full use of the PS4's 8 ACEs and all that potential for Compute on day one. Beyond the customizations available on both machines, devs won't even have it all figured out on the best way to take advantage of the CPU, GPU and memory system of each machine. It just so happens that on the Xbox One in particular, one of the main customizations of the hardware seems especially crucial to getting the most out of the memory system. PS4 devs obviously have far less of a challenge in that regard, but it's a challenge that I think Xbox One devs will manage to easily come to grips with.
I'm reminded of why threads like these tend to be cesspools. It's like watching Fox News. Anyone with any sense knows that isn't the Xbox One version of the game. That shit looks just about passable for current gen based on those shots. Even GTA V on 360 and PS3 has superior looking water. Anyway, last post in this thread. It has dissolved into blatantly misleading comparisons.
This has been talked about time and time again. None of those points are things that can make up any difference between the two consoles. Please stop regurgitating talking points that have been debunked.
WordsintheWater
Member
Is this our first comparison?
It's like when you lower the shader quality in crysis from very high to medium....
Watched the whole video, Xbox One version looks perfectly fine, maybe has a little more aliasing then the PS4 version, but that's about all I could tell from the video.
Nice try.
SHADES
Member
Oh dear, it's seems you're correct and I'm very tired and not thinking/reading straight, my bad, apologies.
Edited post.
SwiftDeath
Member
Let me rephrase
It has now been confirmed from the horse's mouth that 10% of the XB1's GPU will be reserved for non-game use
And thus games can only use 90% of the XB1's GPU
MS will try to make the non-game functions more efficient to get back some of that 10%
That is what the article states if you read it
Saberus
Member
bravo !!!!!!
Also for ps3 it was Rumble was so last gen.
So many things went wrong for Sony at the beginning last gen.
mysteriousmage09
Member
-Clicks on thread to see what's new.
-See SenjutsuSage spouting the same shit.
-Facepalms.
-See SenjutsuSage spouting the same shit.
-Facepalms.
velociraptor
Junior Member
que?
There is no 'gain'.
Originally the Xbox One was touted to have a 1.31TF GPU.
MS have confirmed rendering is actually locked at 1.17TF because 10% is reserved by the console/OS.
Microsoft unlocking this doesn't change anything. The console is not going to be more powerful than we originally thought. The inverse actually applies - it's weaker than originally anticipated.
I think they might reduce the OS footprint although I doubt they can gain a full 10%, especially since app snapping is a vital feature of the console.
WordsintheWater
Member
Pretty sure he is just making fun of Richard Leadbetter guys.
KimonoNoNo
Member
I read it as him being sarcastic about Leadbetter's apparent bias.
Edit- Or perhaps he's just trolling.
I'm reading the article but it seems bolded more the part where xbone will gain more resources in the future than about the cut in the present, but ok, it's just a personal opinion.
SwiftDeath
Member
Right but that's the spin being done by leadbetter
Is that what you mean?
I thought my summation was pretty spot on
If they drop Bundled Kinect they will basically be crapping on everyone who bought the system expecting Kinect to be a major part of the platform.
Night Angel
Member
Didn't you know? Sarcasm doesn't work in console warz threads because some posters (not banning any names, now) have genuine thoughts that read like sarcasm (completely serious).
Wait, it wasn't sarcasm? Case in point, I s'pose.
NoirVisage
Banned
the question is , how much of a minority is that? if they can afford to crap on them, in order to get more units sold..
DMAs are developer controlled, so of course a developer is going to have to interact with the DMEs. You have to tell it to do things. If you want to use any of the fancy stuff (other than just copying data around), there's going to be specific APIs that you'll have to code to in order to take advantage of that. There's no way to magically just have that work done for you (and even if there were, it would take a long time for developers to trust it).
Audio, again if it's got some nonstandard features, will require additional effort to harness. That additional effort will end up as code specifically for their audio platform. Again, it's not going to be just basic DX audio; that would largely defeat the point of having special audio chip (unless the special is just "more of what you got before").
You completely underestimate the complexity of display planes as well. Depending on how the display planes are implemented, developers are either going to have to allocate separate render targets of varying sizes or they're going to have to specifically ask for the render target of each display plane. Either one adds complexity. Have your game rendering at 900p and your GUI at 1080p? Great. Now, what if you want to draw some GUI elements to look like they're embedded in your game world, but still be at 1080p? Harder, but doable. What if you want your embedded game world elements to properly obey depth compared to the rest of your game world elements? You're now fucked.
No additional features are easy. Every piece of special purpose hardware adds complexity to the system that would otherwise not be there. This is as true for graphics APIs as it is for hardware decompression APIs. Why do you think developers so loathe to move from DX9 to DX11? Because it's not free! It requires a huge amount of work.
Every developer is going to ask themselves if a feature is worth the elbow grease to use, and not all developers are going to agree. But really, nothing worth doing comes for free.
A minority of early adopters, considering that if Microsoft is forced to drop Kinect it will be because people will send the clear message that they're not interested in it and would prefer a lower price.
So I'm really not seeing this as a problem. Microsoft is of course backing Kinect but not at the cost of the success of the whole platform. Just like they did with their DRM strategy. With Kinect the interests and investements are much bigger so they're not gonna react until they're proven to be wrong by the numbers (but internally they are surely preparing themselves for such outcome, they would be fool not to).
I wonder how much of the Kinect is a part of the manufacturing costs. If it's an 80/20 split with the console I can see them just dropping the price to match PS4 and keeping the Kinect in. If the Kinect is a significant part of the cost then dropping it may be the only option.
I'd argue that specs do matter to an extent. While more powerful hardware is certainly not necessary to produce worthwhile games, it can have an effect on the overall perception of the device. Last generation the PS3 was more difficult to develop for (CELL, split memory pool, outdated GPU), leading to inferior multiplats dispite an advantage in theoretical performance. This resulted in many people opting to buy most of their multiplats on the Xbox 360. This time around, the Xbone appears to have a ~50% performance deficit (and lesser GPGPU capabilities?), a memory architecture that is harder to manage/less effective overall, and is allegedly behind with its development tools. It appears to be significantly harder to develop for in addition to being at a large disadvantage performance-wise. If the Xbone has inferior multiplats (the gap appears to be much larger this time), a majority of hardcore early adopters will potentially opt for a PS4 over the Xbone. This causes one platform to gain a negative reputation that the casual/softcore market will take into account, even if they can't immediately identify the problems with a particular version of a game. More importantly, early adopters opting for a particular platform contributes to the networking effect. People will buy what their friends have.
malboroking
Banned
I highly, highly doubt they will drop the price and still bundle the Kinect, investors would be furious if they were losing that much money with each console sold. They already don't like the XBox division. The only way the price will get dropped is if they lose Kinect, and I don't think that's going to happen. I think they are going to rely on Kinect to boost ad Revenue using NUads to offset the fact that it looks like they are going to be outsold by Sony.
Are you trying to say that choosing a console based on specs, policies, and games is short sighted?
You seem to be generalizing again here. That's not nice.
Sleeplessnights
Banned
I've seen this multiple times, in a few gameplay videos the Xbox controller button prompts show up on the, supposedly, PS4 version of the game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=eiYrh3_lDh0#t=456
@ 7:35
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=8kbE7E831H0#t=450
@ 7:30
and here it is on a different video that shows the button there is a controller button and not meant to signify "accept"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ICemupWG56U#t=301
@ 5:00
That could mean that every video has been running on a PC with PS4 buttons.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=eiYrh3_lDh0#t=456
@ 7:35
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=8kbE7E831H0#t=450
@ 7:30
and here it is on a different video that shows the button there is a controller button and not meant to signify "accept"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ICemupWG56U#t=301
@ 5:00
That could mean that every video has been running on a PC with PS4 buttons.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
Makes sense. Seems like every third party has been running their games through PC with console control prompts.
Chobel
Member
I'm sorry, but I don't understand. What am I supposed to see?
Angelus Errare
Banned
That it's most likely the PC version with button prompts for both consoles. In one of his screenshots (7:35) if you watch the video that image is from. Like all of 2 seconds before that scene as he was making his way to that building it was PS4 button prompts that automagically turned into XBO button prompts once he reached his destination all of 3 feet in front of him.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
we've been seeing the pc version this whole time.
Chobel
Member
I don't think that "A" is XBO button because:
- Ubisoft has to be seriously stupid to create a PC build that shows PS4 buttons in regular gameplay and Xbox one button in choice menu. They can and already did create a build that shows PS4 buttons only.
- They could have changed the "X" to "A"[ccept], the video that shows "X" was old (in July).
I'm not saying it's not PC version, but those pics don't prove that.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Wha?
Watch this video and try to rationalize it
http://youtu.be/8kbE7E831H0?t=7m15s
Again the dude is playing and running around and it's clearly PS4 button prompts. He reaches the door and suddenly it's clearly XBO/PC button prompts.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
Chobel
Member
If in PC version there's "A" in that choice menu then yes there's no PS4 version, it's a PC version. if that's not the case I'm not sure how Ubisoft can fuck up so bad that they create a PC version where they they show PS4 buttons in normal gameplay and just when you go to choice menu you got XBO button and more importantly show that stupid build in youtube. I mean they already created the version where they only showed PS4 buttons.
That's a PC version for sure but that was in E3.
travisbickle
Member
CadetMahoney
Member
Pretty much, there is no scenario I see bone being able to come close to PS4 sales when all is said and done.
In a year filled with suspect juniors and straw grasping of the highest order, you're standing out for all the wrong reasons.
oh shit i just gave clicks to misterxmedia.
Whatever i pretty sure this is troll site to get people hyped and watch whole train crash as every single one rumor will be debunked.
Actually it is better to read than comix. Full of insiders and specialists and 0 confirmed rumor and people waiting for something that won't come.
It is like watching trainwreck in a progress. Senjutsu with his stretching ideas would be there overlord.
edit:
fuck this is not the worst site. It is the best site. I can't laugh enough when i read every next post.
It is like alternate reality where people go such ways so they can stretch fact into oblivion and come with some amazing leap of though.
dGPU ? Forget 15 dPU !. 1,3 ? no 5,3 Tf based on 280x VI.
And best part:
- Panello and MS confirms everything is fake
people: they are hiding fact for purpose to make comeback
Also developers got their dev kits but they were delivered by security and they can't open them because security is still there...
It's the same demo, but Gamersyde video isn't what they play on stage.
This is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8xIWSiKMe0
, with remote play segment, so it's PS4 version.
IHaveCandy
Banned
I have to ask, has Neogaf had a confirmed incident where people were making accounts just to try and muddy the water and the general message on this boards? It seems a lot of people suspect of "astroturfing" (first time I've heard it in this context) and it seems crazy for a company to do that in any official capacity.
gundamkyoukai
Member
And another one bites the dust , i don't think i have ever seen so many juniors banned in such a short time on GAF.
Games like WD , BF4 , AC4 , COD etc etc coming out on so many systems so they going to be rush plus not matter what anyone says they still build with last gen in mind .
I don't expect PS4 to have any real advantage for at least a year plus .
Games like WD , BF4 , AC4 , COD etc etc coming out on so many systems so they going to be rush plus not matter what anyone says they still build with last gen in mind .
I don't expect PS4 to have any real advantage for at least a year plus .