ThaiGrocer
Member
Their new thing is the windows 8 store. They're trying to get more people on it to shove the store in front of them.
But Valve doesn't care whether you use Steam on a custom-built PC or a Steambox. People continuing to build their own PCs and run whatever OS supporting Steam they want on them is not an issue for Valve.
Yeah, it seems like people have this weird idea that Valve is going to use their games and Steam to push people towards the Steambox, when actually they are making the Steambox as a way to get more people on Steam.
This can't be cheaper than buying all the parts separately and building your own PC, right?
I have a feeling Nvidia is steams partner in this whole thing, maybe they got a large discount, they seemed pretty upset no one used their GPUs in the new consoles.
No they didn't.
Then what was with all of Nvidia's anti console statements?
GPU: some units with NVidia Titan, some GTX780, some GTX760, and some GTX660
CPU: some boxes with Intel : i7-4770, some i5-4570, and some i3
Hardly.This can't be cheaper than buying all the parts separately and building your own PC, right?
Valve makes money by selling people games on Steam.
Steam is getting more and more popular, but PCs are getting squeezed more and more by other markets and by strategic incoherence on the part of Windows.
Valve's goal is to make sure Steam is able to keep getting more popular even as PCs (in a vacuum) decline.
One way to do this is to make Steam compatible with other computer OSes that already exist; that's why Valve created Steamplay and released Mac/Linux clients.
Another way to do this is to create their own gaming-oriented OS and encourage more and more ports to it; that's why Valve created SteamOS and is pushing for Linux ports from major developers.
Another way to do this is to make it easier to play games on the couch/TV so people don't feel compelled to sit at their desk when they play PC games; that's why Valve created the Steam Controller and Big Picture mode.
Yet another way to do this is to make it easier to buy PC gaming hardware at a reasonable price without having to know much about computers; that's why Valve created Steam Machines and is working with manufacturers to make them efficient and effective.
The common denominator of all these efforts is that they answer the questions of people who don't already use Steam. If someone says "well I'd get into PC gaming but it's too expensive/obnoxious to build a box," you tell them to buy a Steam Machine. If someone says "lol comfy couch," you hand them a Steam Controller. If someone wants to play indie games on a miniature HTPC streaming box, you point them to SteamOS. And so on.
It's like you wrote this with me in mind.A "Steambox" (or Steam Machine or whatever) at that point could simply become a standard gaming PC that you can confidently suggest to the Average Joe who's tentatively interested in PC gaming/Steam but isn't willing to catch up with the whole "do it yourself" part.
This can't be cheaper than buying all the parts separately and building your own PC, right?
Perhaps I'm mistaken in their goal with the Steambox then. I thought going against the "ethos of what it means to be a PC gamer" was exactly what they were trying to do. I was operating under the assumption they were attempting to appeal to a new segment that simply wants to pay $500 or whatever for a no nonsense game/media box for the living room. Obviously that does not preclude you from dropping in a Titan if you want, and I was assuming annual iterations and branded upgrade kits were a given. Countless companies have been doing branded PC gaming machines for eons, none of them have had any kind of impact for the same reasons. I think you have to have a singular, highly visible, relatively low cost box you can point to as a defacto standard. What we're basically getting is a Valve Alienware line.
Their goal should be trying to beat custom-built PC prices right now, not console prices. People are always saying "build it yourself, you'll save money", if Valve can break that mantra it should be considered a success.
Regardless, the main thing is that in 2-3 years PC hardware will have advanced so much, to the point where even a 500 machine could be 3 times more powerful than next gen consoles, nevermind the high-end stuff. If Valve leverages that it could be a nice long-term benefit.
Name me one company building PC's that sells them for less than the parts would cost to build yourself?
Outside of a couple Dell Outlet with Slickdeals coupon + discounts, etc.. they don't really exist.
The idea that Valve could buy the parts cheaper than you could by shopping around and would build them and sell them to you as a whole cheaper than you could build it is outright ridiculous.
This isn't Sony or MS selling the 360/PS3 at a loss. It's not gonna happen.
That i3+ 660 box would be at around $700 when all said and done.
Then what was with all of Nvidia's anti console statements?
It doesn't seem like Nvidia even cares to use Mantle.
Why not lol?
They can easily make a deal with Nvidia and Intel and who ever else to give them 10-15% discount on the items.
Not to mention the fact that Valve being as big as they are could just simply sell these without making a profit, by taking out their own cut of the pie that retailers get.
I don't know the spread of the pie when it comes to retailers, but imagine a GTX TITAN that sells for 1000, how much does a place like Newegg gets from it? 200$? Don't know, but lets say it is 200$, thats the 200$ that Valve can deduct from their price to make "Steam Machines" more affordable and more mainstream.
I believe they do this all the time with their Steam Sales.
But as I said, this is all speculation, but the point is that cheaper Steam Machines are not an impossibility.
Goodmyness, why are they so high end? That seems too high end.
I don't understand how those could be made affordable to anyone looking into PC gaming but want console prices.
fuck me I need to register as a potential beta applicant, I need to do the challenges though am I too late ?
I hope I can buy the case separately. I really want a small, gaming designed case. I don't need cases with 10 Hard drive slots and a massive ATX motherboard. 1 Graphics card, 1 CPU, 1 Hard drive, 1 SSD. Any case which is designed for this is what I want.
It's a legitimate question, tho: if MS by some chance counters this w/ a Windows designed exclusively for gaming (seeing as how mainly gamers will be core PC purchasers in the future, besides corporations), SteamOS and Steambox's roles become severely marginalized. Most of the people it sounds like Steambox is geared at know how to build their own systems already, and Valve won't be getting big enough discounts on bulk to keep the machine in PS4/XBO price territory.
MS could very well do it and kill any momentum Valve has with this thing by releasing a Windows w/ gaming-optimized features and ripping out all the non-gaming features. There'd be no purpose for SteamOS or Steambox by then either; PC gamers will stick with Windows b/c of the games they can play on it already and the fact a gaming-oriented Windows OS could basically rob Valve of playing the hero. I'm surprised they haven't done it already tbh.
Valve needs to count on MS not being interested enough in PC gaming (or the PC market in general) to do that, and needs to get this thing going big very soon. Even as it stands, can any PC gamer somewhat decent at making builds truly say they'd buy a Steambox right now instead of designing a custom PC? Lots of answers in this thread are saying the latter.
And this is from a console gamer interested in SteamOS/Steambox btw.
Hate to burst your bubble but unfortunately this is unlikely.
It is already confirmed that other manufacturers will be making their own steam machines. If valve were to subsidise their own machine, the other companies will not be able to compete or make a profit on their machines and would simply not take part in the initiative at all.
Essentially what Valve are doing with the steam box is similar to android phones. Although at the moment, we have no idea what the rules are for these other companies to licence SteamOS. As the OS is made to increase graphics and processing gains, I doubt manufacturers could do insane customisation to the OS like we see in android as they may reduce performance. We will have to wait and see what Valve have in mind and how it will shape the ecosystem going forward.
Exactly.Yeah, it seems like people have this weird idea that Valve is going to use their games and Steam to push people towards the Steambox, when actually they are making the Steambox as a way to get more people on Steam.
They said that their hardware is faster than their competitor's hardware. What else are they supposed to say when asked about console hardware compared to their products?Then what was with all of Nvidia's anti console statements?
Mantle won't work on nVidia cards. Mantle is a low level API for GCN architecture which is different to nVidia's cards. Mantle won't even work on all AMD cards, pre-GCN cards won't be able to use it.
Those specs look surprisingly high. I expected the low end machine to be able to just stream and cost no more than $200. While an i3 is low end, is certainly not the lowest, practical end, and not that cheap, and a gtx660 is no slouch either.
So high-powered SteamOS living room machines are nice, and fun to play with, and will make many Steam customers happy. But there are a lot of other Steam customers who already have perfectly great gaming hardware at home in the form of a powerful PC. The prototype we're talking about here is not meant to replace that. Many of those users would like to have a way to bridge the gap into the living room without giving up their existing hardware and without spending lots of money. We think that's a great goal, and we're working on ways to use our in-home streaming technology to accomplish it - we'll talk more about that in the future.
Those specs look surprisingly high. I expected the low end machine to be able to just stream and cost no more than $200. While an i3 is low end, is certainly not the lowest, practical end, and not that cheap, and a gtx660 is no slouch either.
Why the flying hell aren't AMD GPUs in it?!? You'd think with Mantle completely obliterating the need for DirectX... AND with the AMD GPUs in all the next gen consoles, that AMD would be the perfect fit for SteamOS and SteamBox.
Valve clearly have not thought this through very well.
These are just the machines for the beta test.
Eh. Shutting down GFWL is probably the best thing they've done for PC gaming in a long while.What's funny about Microsoft is how they are still promising "a renewed focus on PC gaming" every five-six months and systematically nothing ever follows.
They said that their hardware is faster than their competitor's hardware. What else are they supposed to say when asked about console hardware compared to their products?
and anyone who's really looking into pc gaming would realize that games are far, far cheaper than on consoles so even if you spend an extra $100-200 to get a box that's equivalent or better than a console you'll save more than that in a year.
450w psu?
They are cheaper even taking pre-owned market into consideration.Pre-owned section. Just have to look carefully sometimes.
What's up with these people on GAF loving AMD more for no apparent reason?No amd no steam box for me
I think it's more part of the prevailing "consoles vs. PC" narrative. At least, I've noticed it far more ever since it became clear that AMD is supplying all the consoles.What's up with these people on GAF loving AMD more for no apparent reason?
Is it some sort of "cheer for the underdog" thing?
MS could very well do it and kill any momentum Valve has with this thing by releasing a Windows w/ gaming-optimized features and ripping out all the non-gaming features.
This can't be cheaper than buying all the parts separately and building your own PC, right?
This: Dimensions: approx. 12 x 12.4 x 2.9 in high
Combined with an i7 and Titan amazes me, frankly.
Those specs look surprisingly high. I expected the low end machine to be able to just stream and cost no more than $200. While an i3 is low end, is certainly not the lowest, practical end, and not that cheap, and a gtx660 is no slouch either.
What's up with these people on GAF loving AMD more for no apparent reason?
Is it some sort of "cheer for the underdog" thing?
I think it's more part of the prevailing "consoles vs. PC" narrative. At least, I've noticed it far more ever since it became clear that AMD is supplying all the consoles.
charlequin said:The goal isn't to make it cheaper. Right now the benefit of building your own PC over buying a prebuilt is that (if you know what you're doing) you can use better parts, lay out the internals wisely, and watch for deals on components. Most prebuilt systems will run you something ridiculous like a 50% margin, use crappy components, and not actually bring any engineering benefit to the table in terms of size/cooling/power usage. (Note how the only prebuilt PCs with a good reputation are actually Macs, because with Apple you actually do get that engineering benefit for your price premium.) The downside is that you do have to know what you're doing and you have to spend time (sometimes kind of a lot of time) actually putting things together, and handling any testing or RMAs or anything yourself.
If there were prebuilt systems that were actually designed for gaming, that used good components, and applied some intelligence to handle cooling gracefully in a small case, I (and I suspect a lot of my friends who enjoy PC games but always feel a mixture of excitement and dread at each system rebuild) would be willing to pay a small premium over the raw cost of the components.
What's up with these people on GAF loving AMD more for no apparent reason?
Is it some sort of "cheer for the underdog" thing?
I think it's more part of the prevailing "consoles vs. PC" narrative. At least, I've noticed it far more ever since it became clear that AMD is supplying all the consoles.
What's up with these people on GAF loving AMD more for no apparent reason?
Is it some sort of "cheer for the underdog" thing?