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Sonic Lost World |OT| Too X-treme for the Galaxy
- Thread starter Dark Schala
- Start date
I Wanna Be The Guy
U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
I did not take your advice(didn't see your post unti just now). However right before 7-3 I did an extra level for a previous world that I unlocked and got a number of lives there. I had 8 lives going in to the level, which was just enough to beat it first attempt without getting a game over. 7-2 on the other hand....fuck that stage. Well don't fuck that stage. Fuck having to replay it from the beginning every time I lose 4 lives in a row. I actually like the challenge the stages offer for the most part. It's the lives system that makes it frustrating, not the stage design itself.
I haven't read any reviews but at this point I can guess what the ones that hate it are saying. If even I'm a bit frustrated by the difficulty curve I can only imagine how much it's frustrating normal people and I can only imagine how frustrated kids are going to be by this game late on(kids being the primary market for this game). I define a normal person as someone that doesn't love the difficulty of I Wanna Be The Guy.
The Mana Legend
Banned
I liked Sonic Generations 3DS more than I liked the console version. No joke. Console Generations ran out of Steam by the third world, and the level design plummeted, all culminating in one of the worst levels I've ever played in a Sonic game. Generations 3DS I played through the entirety of without getting bored or annoyed by level design.
I know I'm fucking insane, but Lost Worlds 3DS I definitely have my eye on once I can get it for less than $20 like I did Generations.
Haha, yeah, 7-3 isn't all that hard but I figure sooner or later someone will during the NSMB2 rip-off and throw the GamePad out of the window. I guess most kids will use that weird checkpoint skip power-up, but I can't see that being much fun.
EDIT: Oh, man, that stream. Dimps gonna Dimps.
Eh, even the Dreamcast Era levels in 3DS? I felt Radical Highway was completely awful.
Nocturnowl
Member
I'm usually fine with the lives system but in this game it is a pretty flawed, maybe lives aren't archaic but they are poorly implemented in ways.
100 rings equals jack shit, I'm left wondering what the point of amassing rings is outside of a scoring system that no longer has any meaning seeing as rankings are seemingly tied to time attack only.
Lives are often few and far between, you'll get the occasional life obtained after a checkpoint that can be regained after death to help stave off the game over screen but otherwise there's not enough demand to match up to the games tougher sections and it ain't often the good kind of tougher.
Yet despite this there are a few rare occasions where the game throws a number of lives at you, one stage right near the end of the game allows an easily found detour off the main path to throw four odd lives at you and a secret sky world stage I was fortunate enough to unlock was basically "extra lives: the stage", after beating it I was about 25 lives richer and then proceeded to lose them all on Grind carts 2.0.
So it's also oddly inconsistent with lives, being stingy most of the time and then unusually generous on rare occasions.
I just finished the game and only had the game over screen 3 times but for people not so good at the genre and of course the kids playing it they'll be seeing that screen a lot more and returning with a mere 4 lives to tackle these stumping sections in rather long stages, well lets just say frustration will be had.
I think things would've gone down a lot better if they kept 100 rings= an extra life and if maybe the circus tents were more extra lives focused instead of being the venue you begrudgingly head to when you need more animals to progress in the game, speaking of which that was a pretty poor design choice.
Maybe full impressions later, I still need to spend a bit more time going back through earlier stages.
*POST GAME SPOILER*
100 rings equals jack shit, I'm left wondering what the point of amassing rings is outside of a scoring system that no longer has any meaning seeing as rankings are seemingly tied to time attack only.
Lives are often few and far between, you'll get the occasional life obtained after a checkpoint that can be regained after death to help stave off the game over screen but otherwise there's not enough demand to match up to the games tougher sections and it ain't often the good kind of tougher.
Yet despite this there are a few rare occasions where the game throws a number of lives at you, one stage right near the end of the game allows an easily found detour off the main path to throw four odd lives at you and a secret sky world stage I was fortunate enough to unlock was basically "extra lives: the stage", after beating it I was about 25 lives richer and then proceeded to lose them all on Grind carts 2.0.
So it's also oddly inconsistent with lives, being stingy most of the time and then unusually generous on rare occasions.
I just finished the game and only had the game over screen 3 times but for people not so good at the genre and of course the kids playing it they'll be seeing that screen a lot more and returning with a mere 4 lives to tackle these stumping sections in rather long stages, well lets just say frustration will be had.
I think things would've gone down a lot better if they kept 100 rings= an extra life and if maybe the circus tents were more extra lives focused instead of being the venue you begrudgingly head to when you need more animals to progress in the game, speaking of which that was a pretty poor design choice.
Maybe full impressions later, I still need to spend a bit more time going back through earlier stages.
*POST GAME SPOILER*
Crummiest special world ever? oh it just might be!
No kidding, it's totally "here's some shit we weren't able to finish fully", lol.
The Mana Legend
Banned
I don't remember, it has been a couple of years since I played it. I remember the only times getting annoyed were during the optional missions, which were really terribly designed.
I'm starting the 3DS version and I'm vastly preferring it over the Wii U one. Didn't play that much yet, but the handling is much better and it seems to have much more platforming so far. Not only that but it does an infinitely much better job of explaining the controls and mechanics. The special stages are complete and utter garbage though.
I Wanna Be The Guy
U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
Yeah what the hell is up with 100 rings not giving you a life? You're bang on the money about the amount of lives you get completely not matching up with the stages. Maybe teh lives system itself isn't archaic, but the way it's done in this game is VERY flawed. And yeah the animals = progression system is fucking terrible. Nowhere near as bad as the medals from Unleashed since it doesn't really take any more than one circus minigame to unlock what you need to at any given time, but yeah.
Would you say those deaths were more your fault. Or the result of shitty controls, and very cheaply/poorly made levels?
I definitely agree with you, power ups can coexist with a good Sonic game. But I rather them actually fine formulas that work with Sonic, before they decide going overboard with power ups. I feel like that can get in the way of what they're trying to achieve. From what I hear, they aren't that far off from achieving a good Sonic formula. Based off of what matters (not dumb things like he's to slow, or the game isn't 20hrs long).
However, in retrospect, I think going this route with the level design might've hurt them. I'll judge it when I play for myself, but the game seems to be all over the place. Doing way too much. I doubt they will go the spherical route again (maybe they'll throw it into a zone or something), but I hope they keep the movement tiers and whatnot. This can open a lot of doors for Sonic if they work on improving that, wish they'd work in momentum though. Especially on the 2D portions.
How far in the game do I get when I start lowering my expectations further? I feel like I'm going through each stage telling myself "yeah this is going to suck", but I never actually end up feeling like anything I played was terrible.
Someone told me Frozen Factory 2 was the start of the downward spiral but that stage was pretty fun and reminded me of the rolling stages in Galaxy. There was only really one tricky part with the big snow monsters standing in the way but that was mostly a matter of cleverly dashing and bouncing them off the road.
Someone told me Frozen Factory 2 was the start of the downward spiral but that stage was pretty fun and reminded me of the rolling stages in Galaxy. There was only really one tricky part with the big snow monsters standing in the way but that was mostly a matter of cleverly dashing and bouncing them off the road.
Nope i am on the same boat. I like radical highway on 3ds. Loved bouncing of the blimp. yeah it is one of the levels where you can go easy on the lower paths the challenge is staying up high that is why i liked it. hoping we are going to see this game arround 20 soon then i will try picking it up.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
If you hate difficult levels, you will need very low expectations for level 7-2 and level 7-3
. But I don't think the game ever starts to become bad. On the contrary: the more you play the game, the better you understand the mechanics and the more fun it is imo.I've got a question though: At the end of the level you get point boni when you jump on top of the capsule. In the game there are missions that demand that you get a certain number of boni in one level. Now the problem is, the game asks me to get 8 boni and I don't know how to do that. Has anyone found out how the number of boni is decided and how you can get eight of them?
If you hate difficult levels, you will need very low expectations for level 7-2 and level 7-3
I've got a question though: At the end of the level you get point boni when you jump on top of the capsule. In the game there are missions that demand that you get a certain number of boni in one level. Now the problem is, the game asks me to get 8 boni and I don't know how to do that. Has anyone found out how the number of boni is decided and how you can get eight of them?
Length of the jump. Most capsule asteroids are divided in two different textures, it's possible to reach the capsule with a double jump from the mark in the middle.
Nocturnowl
Member
In this case the controls aren't much of an issue seeing as the stage is on rails, yet you do have some control over Sonic's momentum when jumping which leads to its own problems, due to camera placement on the side on sections of the stage which sometimes shifts to a sort of slanted from behind yet kinda side on view it can be tricky to gauge your jumps and when you factor in your variable speed and double jumps things start getting messy.
I tend to find that on-rails stages like this benefit from more limitations on jumping mechanics, after all if you're going to build a stage based off of quick twitch reactions and more strict level design you don't really have time to start gauging the many variables that come with say momentum where even making one jump successfully can bugger up the following one because the double jump pulled you too far forward or something.
As for stage design being cheap, it's problem is one looong stretch that could use another checkpoint, the trial and error rears its head and in a stage like this I can deal with it to an extent but the above issues made it far more troublesome than it should've been. I actually quite like the stage in concept but having played a whole variety of on rails platforming segments this year from the 3DS port of DKCR, Puppeteer and Rayman Legend's music stages Sonic's flaws at the same style become more apparent.
I do think though if I went back now i'd handle it a lot better armed with knowledge and free from the shackles of frustration but compared to its more manageable predecessor earlier in the game (which was like playing a Sonic version of DKC2's Target Terror, sweet) it sticks out all the more for its difficulty spike, I wont deny an element of my suckitude coming into play, I must've smashed into the same bomb cart like 8 times before nailing the double jump timing for it but as a stage it's definitely got some issues of its own, I'd say it was unrefined and a bit cheap shot heavy as opposed to poorly made.
Edit: Oh I neglected to mention the sky world stage that ate its share of lives, the stage was a jumble of ideas where the 2D sections could be hindered by Sonic's love of sticking to walls with the whole parkour thing, it also had some 3D sliding sections like those in SM64 minus the whole fun part. I feel that when this game hits its low points you know that they had their hearts in the right place but the execution just wasn't up to par, as opposed to say Sonic 06 which is just a disaster where designers hearts where full of malice .
I expected bad things from this stage but I found it pretty easy, different strokes I guess.
It requires a completely different sense of control to the rest of the game which is probably where the difficulty for some stems from, it's no Super Monkey Ball though.
And yes those snow monsters on the thin platform near the end got me as well, the way to defeat them is kind of silly when you think about it.
Frozen Factory was my least favourite world though, the ice messing with the games various mechanics and my 15 minute pinball prison saw to that.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
thank you! As a tip for others having problems here: try this in level 1-3, you can make a longer jump there from the steps, compared to the spherical ending planets.
Thanks for the heads up. Reading your impressions they sound a lot similar to my own. I'm bracing for the game to let me down quite a bit but hopefully I'll still be able to look back at the game in a positive light. The game seriously feels like it's got some good ideas and I hope a follow-up game can improve them all rather than returning back into the boost formula.
they also said the 3DS version is a "Yes" and cites strong level design
dimps
strong level design
i'll believe it when i see it
This game looks good, very good. Had it been easier, it would have received far better scores, as at times its difficulty makes it frustrating.
Not that it's broken or anything, but you can tell developpers made a game THEY would enjoy, leaving behind reviewers who didn't plan to invest time to overcome the challenge.
I expect kids will struggle as well, which could be a bigger concern. Hopefully I'm wrong, and they will cope with it. After all I used to love games that were HARD (Psycho Fox or R-Type come to mind).
Yet from the end of level 2, I know my 7 years old daughter would need my help to advance. That's a weird game design, probably not the best suited to a commercial success.
And as much as I cherish TW101's learning curve - it serves the game, and is immensely rewarding for its intended audience - here it feels unnecessary, the game isn't better for it.
That's my 2 cents, maybe my opinion will change as I progress more.
Not that it's broken or anything, but you can tell developpers made a game THEY would enjoy, leaving behind reviewers who didn't plan to invest time to overcome the challenge.
I expect kids will struggle as well, which could be a bigger concern. Hopefully I'm wrong, and they will cope with it. After all I used to love games that were HARD (Psycho Fox or R-Type come to mind).
Yet from the end of level 2, I know my 7 years old daughter would need my help to advance. That's a weird game design, probably not the best suited to a commercial success.
And as much as I cherish TW101's learning curve - it serves the game, and is immensely rewarding for its intended audience - here it feels unnecessary, the game isn't better for it.
That's my 2 cents, maybe my opinion will change as I progress more.
SpikedGunner
Member
oh man, really? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
I actually can't imagine the developers were aiming this game at kids at all, it's way too difficult and complicated for that, considering today's approach at kids games. I thinkthey aimed this game mostly at platformer fans who played Sonic in their youth and at younger but experienced gamers. Considering the degree of difficulty found in Sonic Unleashed, I even think that this approach is definitely not new for Sonic team. I think the game is better because of its difficulty though. the controls could be more intuitive and easy, I would not complain about that, but the level design shouldn't be any easier. Also the S-ranks shouldn't be any easier, I'm still horrified by the piss-easy S-ranks of Sonic Generations.
A demo would probably be really good to have right now, most likely because a lot of the initial enjoyment will come down to whether or not you can get behind the new game play mechanics, which takes some time for readjustment. Despite Kotaku's rather black/white judging scale, it's a game that is worth trying out because it's so different from the previous games that it's worth having your own take on it.
The design frustrations is what comes back to bite later on in the game, but something which lot of major publications criticized was that the game wasn't following up on the Generations game play. Which is kind of a weird complaint to come with when almost all pre-release previews were universally positive.
Unfortunately if The Wonderful 101 proved anything, a lot of players don't want to have to readjust their approach to a game if it's made a bit too complicated.
Itchy//Tasty
Member
I Wanna Be The Guy
U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
Maybe Sonic Team should just......stop trying to make their games challenging. They clearly don't know how to do it right. I mean I felt Colours and Generations were both a bit too easy, but you know what? They were both consistently fun throughout. It seems like whenever Sonic Team attempt to make a Sonic game challenging they do it badly and it just feels annoying. It happened with Unleashed. It happened with Lost World. Maybe it's best to just leave other platformers to provide challenging gameplay and just focus on making Sonic games fun.
I only played 3 or 4 levels on the 3DS, but I'm inclined to agree with Kotaku on this (the sky is falling). Well, strong level design might be too much, but it just works better than the Wii U version.
Edit:
The cutscenes alone show it's aimed for kids. And why wouldn't it? Kids love Sonic!
Unleashed had a good difficulty range.
But that was mostly due to A LOT, of trail and error. Like a huuuuuge dose of it. The homing attack wasn't to refined in that game either, causing it to be a real cluster fuck at times.
I used to breeze through those daytime levels, 3yrs removed from it, I get fucked. That isn't a good thing, cause it isn't really based on the skill of the player, but their memory of the level. I won't lie though, it felt ridiculously good to glide by a stage when you remembered everything. It really made Sonic look like a god.
Hmm, about what I was starting to expect. Thanks for the impressions Owl. I'm still pretty anxious to try the game, I still think I'll enjoy it while cursing to the top of my lungs over its flaws (including what you've stated in the above).
I thought Colours was terribly boring and i'm loving this.
I Wanna Be The Guy
U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
Unleashed had a good difficulty range.
Proceeds to talk about how it was difficult for all the wrong reasons. Lol
But yeah I agree with you about Unleashed. I think the thing about Unleashed is that it's a real pain to get through on the first playthrough for all the wrong reasons. But replaying the stages going for S ranks? Fucking awesome. It really is a great experience when you've learned the stage and have the trial and error portion out of the way. It just feels good. But nevertheless it feels the opposite of good when you don't know what's coming.
By the way does anyone know if Super Sonic is playable in this game?
Well, I did that, because by nature. Platformers are trial and error. Unleashed just relied on it too much. They still threw a shit ton of lives at you, and gathering rings was easy so you'd never get a gameover unless there was a section that really defeated you. It was in a way, fair but flawed. Still not the greatest design.
Lost World doesn't seem to do these things regarding your amount of lives and the 100ring Sonic rule.
EDIT: Generations wasn't difficult, but getting a Platinum in it proved to be a little challenging. I also got a Platinum in Unleashed, and the Werehog made that fucking hell. It was quite difficult getting that trophy. Fucking hotdog missions.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
Stream archive for NTom64's/HellfireComms' Sonic Lost World 3DS stream is here for those interested in it: http://www.twitch.tv/hellfirecomms/b/471248914?t=18m53s
eighty(one)
Member
Azure Dream
Member
Bad but functional off-tv video of
-, oh hell, it's Super Sonic., you need to collect all the Red Rings to unlock him, at least on the Wii U version.
The increased speed looks a lot better. And he has a Boost.
Super Son
The increased speed looks a lot better. And he has a Boost.
Wut? Its mostly positive reviews?
Weird level to show it off on, but I like the triumphant main theme they use for it.
But seriously, there's gotta be at least 7 better levels to showcase that.
Been playing the Wii U one all day. There's a lot I like, but some of the levels are just totally fucked. The Casino level's second pinball section is a fucking nightmare, and several level elements feel like they were made by some real jerks. There was a point where you used Metropolis Zone styled screws and it sucked so much.
And Tails is a bit of a dick in the game, what the hell.
I have a real hard time getting my head around the parkour system and going from going up a wall and then moving across to the other side of the wall. Sometimes it seems like it'll allow me, and then sometimes it just doesn't seem to work at all?
Also really stupid that the two things Sonic can't home in on are the Wisp Powerups and the Critter Canisters, seriously?
Also I feel like some of these levels would have been a lot better if they just cut them in half and made two levels out of them. Some of the Desert levels are really long.
And Tails is a bit of a dick in the game, what the hell.
I have a real hard time getting my head around the parkour system and going from going up a wall and then moving across to the other side of the wall. Sometimes it seems like it'll allow me, and then sometimes it just doesn't seem to work at all?
Also really stupid that the two things Sonic can't home in on are the Wisp Powerups and the Critter Canisters, seriously?
Also I feel like some of these levels would have been a lot better if they just cut them in half and made two levels out of them. Some of the Desert levels are really long.
deddonpachi
Member
i played it to the last level in one sitting and had a blast with it! those bad reviews are unjustified imho..
I'm just playing through Windy Hills now and I don't understand the complains about the controls. Maybe it gets worse later, but at list about the homing attack I can say I never had a miss. Yes, it depends on you timing and if you time it bad it will lock only on 2 enemies out of 4 but you can see clearly what enemies are locked. I'm having a blast until now.
Nocturnowl
Member
It's comforting to know that i'm not alone on these points, especially about Tails, he's kind of a smarmy prick in this game which is really unusual.
I Wanna Be The Guy
U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
That's true. Unleashed gave you more than enough lives. The trial and error based level design was pretty badly done imo, but at least lives system was well balanced.
By the way I think I've changed my mind on Lost World. I do think Colours and Generations are better games. I think Lost World does a number of things better, but once you reach a certain point the game becomes more frustrating than fun and the game starts to fall apart. It doesn't help that the wisps are so badly done as well. As an overall package it's not as consistently enjoyable as Colours and Generations. Both of those games have better 2D gameplay as well. I think Lost World has the best 3D gameplay and controls in the series and the variety of level design is better.
But with the weak 2D gameplay, badly implemented lives system that doesn't match up with the difficulty in the later stages, forced gamepad bullshit and mediocre boss fights I can't say the overall package is as fun as Colours or Generations despite the things it does do well. But the foundation had been layed and if we just get a more focused sequel based on the strengths of the 3D gameplay and there's a lot of potential for Sonic to do great things with this formula. Hopefully sequels to this will be as big an improvement as Colours and Generations were over Unleashed and do a good job of refining a formula.