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EDGE: "Power struggle: the real differences between PS4 and Xbox One performance"
- Thread starter Musiol
- Start date
Dispelled? Its fact lol. The FUD was that the GDDR5 was unmanagable.
More pics:
There isn't even a memory temp showing in this picture... Why are you trying to double down on the stupid?
shinra-bansho
Member
Pfft, whatever. DDR3 obviously runs at a balanced temperature. I bet your PS4's going to melt into a puddle.
iamshadowlark
Banned
Are you slow? The one thats clearly labeled MEMIO is the sensor by the memory bank...
No, I'm not slow. GPU MEMIO is the subsection of the GPU that interfaces with the memory. Again, it is not RAM just like VRMs are not RAM.
iamshadowlark
Banned
And the sensor is placed there to measure the heat. It's not that hard.
Yes, it is measuring the heat of the memory controller which is not RAM. I'm glad we are in agreement now.
malboroking
Banned
No, its VRM.
On AMD 6900s the voltag regulator is VReg
Then what is thr GPU memory if not the gddr5?
According to another tweet from that timeline, no. Wouldn't make any sense anyway. The whole point of the XBO's OS setup and resource reservation is to provide solid isolation between the Win8/apps-part and the game-part. Compromising that isolation would also compromise the concept of the console. (Assuming that it could even be done.)
Dictator93
Member
The VRM is not the RAM.Sure. ALUs are alot more sensitive to heat than ram chips. But yeah, ram runs hotter than anything.
not my captions
I don't think this is accurate..
NoMoreTrolls
Banned
Because it's better to triple down.
Nightengale
Member
What Activision was asking was pretty much "Can you kill off snap-mode? This thing is irritating as hell."
No way MS would do that, even for CoD:Ghost.
... Maybe if Respawn asked?
If Xbox One provides me with a more streamlined OS, working snap, great app integration, and a well implemented kinect, then the lower resolutions won't matter a bit. I'll take those advantages over a graphical advantage any day. I'm aligned with Microsoft's vision on this stuff,
However, where I'm skeptical is if they can actually implement this stuff and make it work. If they can't, I image i'll be getting a PS4 sometime in 2014.
However, where I'm skeptical is if they can actually implement this stuff and make it work. If they can't, I image i'll be getting a PS4 sometime in 2014.
The VRM is the Voltage Regulation Module not the memory, this does get mighty hot but is very rarely actively cooled. If you did not have active cooling on a GPU and disabled automatic throttling/shutdown the damn thing would destroy itself from temperatures well in excess of 100 degrees C.
Netherscourge
Banned
EDIT - nvm, read it wrong.
They didn't get the extra 10% MS said no.
No, it was denied. I doubt it would have made much difference anyway.
iamshadowlark
Banned
Its measuring the temperature of the ram. There is hardly any logic even in a MC, there's no reason it would need a sensor as there is generally no reason to know its temperature.
You're wrong about this just like you were wrong about what a VRM is, but there is clearly no convincing you of that fact so enjoy living in ignorance I suppose.
Can anyone with more technical knowledge than me comment on the capability of the ESRAM with deferred rendering? It seems like forward rendered games are capable of running at 1080p (Forza) while deferred engines are having problems. Does this have to do with the size of the framebuffer in relation to the 32MB of ESRAM? And it that is the problem, is there a possible workaround?
iamshadowlark
Banned
The voltage regulator is VREG. I'll take the real world if you don't mind
SwiftDeath
Member
Has this already been discussed somewhere?
I actually find that odd. I didn't think that the raw processing power was one of CoD's bottleneck, but the ESRAM size alone.
That's quite telling then. It would certainly imply that the XB1's GPU had trouble handling Ghosts at higher than 720p resolutions when only 90% of it is available
That's odd
You first posted an image with GPU VRM Temperature circled while the GPU Memory temperature was at 31 degree Celsius.
You then used the VRM acronym to mean Video RAM while the GPU memory obviously refers to the outside temperature. (My conjecture, you never said what it could mean if VRM is Video RAM.)
You doubled down on this misinterpretation.
1) I do not see VREG anywhere and the VRM is the voltage regulation module. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage_regulator_module
2) The biggest heating device on dGPU is the part that draws the most power, that would be the GPU itself, this is why it is actively cooled unlike the VRM, and the memory modules that on stock configurations just settle for passive cooling.
3) The fact that the GPU core is at a lower temperature than the VRM/Memory does not mean it is generating less heat because it is actively cooled and a large portion of the heat generated is removed via the heatsink and fan.
Yeah opening up those clouds might reveal some silver linings. Bone needs some now.
Hey, man, Why don't you take a seat.
As it turns out I've got some bad news, it turns out the cloud won't change anything.
Sorry, You want a lollipop?
Ok Buh-bye, have fun and don't let the bad news weigh you down
iamshadowlark
Banned
Dictator93
Member
SwiftDeath
Member
How much do you think the immaturity of the dev tools and SDK had an effect?
You think future iterations of COD on XB1 will have improved resolution?
Cboat did mention a while back that one of the SDK updates dropped performance by like 20% or something crazy like that. Wondering if they've got that sorted yet
If it is mostly down to the GPU though that's not a good sign for the future.
I'm not a developer. I have no idea.
There are a lot of confounding factors. CoD: Ghosts should be higher than 720p on Xbox One. It is a marginally improved engine. My natural inclination is to say things will get better, but what if they upgrade their technology next year or the year after and the game becomes more technically demanding?
Keep in mind this gen the resolution of CoD got worse over time (until the end, when Blops 2 made it sorta wackily different).
The GPU is weak. Period. The PS4 GPU is not a superstar but the Xbone GPU is like worse than the RSX for its respective time period.
There are a lot of confounding factors. CoD: Ghosts should be higher than 720p on Xbox One. It is a marginally improved engine. My natural inclination is to say things will get better, but what if they upgrade their technology next year or the year after and the game becomes more technically demanding?
Keep in mind this gen the resolution of CoD got worse over time (until the end, when Blops 2 made it sorta wackily different).
The GPU is weak. Period. The PS4 GPU is not a superstar but the Xbone GPU is like worse than the RSX for its respective time period.
killatopak
Gold Member
I'm not technically inclined but I've been reading on this stuff and size is the problem for the most part. Using deferred rendering on modern engines, using 32mb is just enough for around 720p-900p.
I'm not sure if there are any workaround other than not using deferred rendering but other more technically inclined GAF members should be able to answer you.
DJ Lushious
Member
Whoops, didn't realize I was a page behind when posting.
Sword Of Doom
Member
I think MS will have to settle with no snap mode for some games. May become a per game feature. 10% of GPU is a lot. Especially when you're already underpowered.
Well, unless I'm mistaken, so is the PS4's GPU. Not to downplay the comparison too much, but yeah.
plagiarize
Banned
do we know that? they've confirmed it has an all new real time lighting model on next gen consoles. I know that doesn't necessarily mean deferred lighting, but I'm be surprised if it wasn't, given the circumstances.
SwiftDeath
Member
I can't see that happening though. Would likely cause OS stability issues I would imagine as I thought MS kind of cordoned off the resources for snap and the like?
Yes the PS4 GPU isn't particularly powerful but considering the differences the XB1's is very very weak
Melchiah
Member
The things is, reviews are expected to include writers' subjective views, unlike hardware comparisons, which have recently been tainted by all kinds of excuses, whether it's balance or the indifference between resolutions. Those same tech articles didn't have similar derails when PS3 and 360 were compared.
Well yeah, the Xbone's GPU was top range like four years ago. Asking $100 more than the competition for it is kind of insulting.
It depends on the metric. In pure performance terms the PS4/Xbox One GPUs are slower compared to top tier pc parts than the 360/PS3 were back when they launched. In terms of power consumption the PS4/Xbox One parts are roughly on par with what was in the 360 and the PS3. The issue is that on the PC front power consumption for graphics cards has been going up.
When you want to design a box that is going to be small, quiet and stable you cannot put in a 200+ watt GPU into it without making a compromise on size or noise.
Why Xbox One Is Better Is Because They Are Focusing On Gamers Now... Just Like The New Controller. It Focuses On Family Gaming, And Media. Reason Why I Think PS3, And PS4 Sucks Is Because They Copied The Kinect, And Because It Doesn't Have Minecraft. The Xbox One Is Expensive But Is Worthed. PS3 Have Alot Of Hackers And It Ruins The Games. Another Thing Xbox One WILL SUPPORT USED GAMES. Xbox One Console Looks More Futuristic Too. Watching TV On Your Xbox One Was A Cool Idea Too.
- Youtube Comment from this "user": http://www.youtube.com/user/ayewiwita
Wow, this like some Samsung fake comment level type shit going on here, lol. For those who know what I'm talking about you have to agree with me here.
- Youtube Comment from this "user": http://www.youtube.com/user/ayewiwita
Wow, this like some Samsung fake comment level type shit going on here, lol. For those who know what I'm talking about you have to agree with me here.
plagiarize
Banned
in terms of architecture too, the PS4 gpu is more modern also.
Sinthor
Gold Member
But there's no way they'd do this. They'd rather have games run at a lower resolution or framerate than the competition than completely break the user experience they're marketing. MS is marketing the XB1 as a TV extender that does games as well. All the running of apps and snap mode, etc., is key to their vision. If they break that...they trash their vision.
Imagine people's confusion and complaints when they can run their apps or use snap mode with every game EXCEPT for COD, let's say. Or if you just let developers kill that when they want, how long is it before none of the apps or snap mode works with ANY of the games your playing.
No, MS won't do that. People just have to realize, I believe, that MS is targeting the XB1 differently than it did the 360. They also already said they didn't target the higher end of graphics, etc., for gaming, people just didn't listen. In the end, MS is banking on the app and TV functionality making the XB1 take off like the Wii did. Remember, the Wii's graphics capabilities were NOTHING like the X360 or the PS3, but it did very well. MS wants to do that, and the XB1 system is the way they believe they can make that happen.
That is also true, the 360 had a forward looking GPU with the unified architecture but the PS3 had seperate Vectors and Pixel pipeline design of the Nvidia 7xxx series gpus.
At least both the X1 and the PS4 are using GCN which is a current and up to date architecture.
It seems like a major oversight by MS, unless they designed the box specifically targeting 720p. Many engines now and going into the future are using deferred rendering or a mix of both, which will basically force them into running around that resolution throughout the generation.
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