There was discussion early on at the reveal that had people pulling up accurate maps of the city, and they'd worked out that the reveal track wasn't accurate (outside of some segments of some streets and some bigger landmarks). Things were sort of picked and arranged to look cool, but not "Google maps" approved. From what I understand, it's more of a fantasy track in the same way the Alps track is, despite being "set" in a real place. Fujimi Kaido had that same sort of process, where they selected famous bends and landmarks from a region, then glue them together in one bigger fantasy track as a sort of tribute to an area.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Digital Foundry: Forza 5 1080p/60FPS gameplay and performance analysis videos
- Thread starter ekim
- Start date
There was discussion early on at the reveal that had people pulling up accurate maps of the city, and they'd worked out that the reveal track wasn't accurate (outside of some segments of some streets and some bigger landmarks). Things were sort of picked and arranged to look cool, but not "Google maps" approved. From what I understand, it's more of a fantasy track in the same way the Alps track is, despite being "set" in a real place. Fujimi Kaido had that same sort of process, where they selected famous bends and landmarks from a region, then glue them together in one bigger fantasy track as a sort of tribute to an area.
Metalmurphy
Member
A 720p or even 1080p GIF with 2 frames isn't that big, do that instead of cropping it up to whatever you want to show/hide, otherwise, you are cherry picking.
Anyone expecting the same IQ as the reveal trailer was insane... Not even DriveClub running at 30 will achieve it.
I've said it since the start that wasn't running in real time but people wouldn't listen...
Anyone expecting the same IQ as the reveal trailer was insane... Not even DriveClub running at 30 will achieve it.
I've said it since the start that wasn't running in real time but people wouldn't listen...
They're always watching us dude
Better act cool
All your comparisons so far involve things that look like obvious placeholders and unfinished bits of the tracks. They're almost completely different building, not improved version of the same ones.
Now, if you look at this:
vs
the differences in terms of IQ (especially aliasing), DOF, lighting, and things like tress or crowd is massive. The final footage is nowhere near the original reveal.
Yeah, that's a pretty noticeable difference - reveal looks much better there. I wonder if the reason that parts of the track that Gestault highlighted look worse in the reveal was because they hadn't finished creating the track back then?
From the reveal shot the building and statues are a bit too far away to properly compare to the release shot, to be honest. Although - considering textures of other buildings have been improved in the final build - the textures on the buildings in the release will probably be better than the reveal anyway, so there's that.
But there are a lot of things that look better in the reveal there. Where's that beautiful DOF gone? The smoke in the background? While I can presume they might have changed the position of the sun in the newer version, the lighting looks considerably flatter. And what's with all the aliasing?
I really can't see how the final shot looks better here.
NullPointer
Member
Speedy Blue Dude
Banned
Aside from the crowd, the final shot looks better to me. Statue and Buildings are more clear and better textured.All your comparisons so far involve things that look like obvious placeholders and unfinished bits of the tracks. They're almost completely different building, not improved version of the same ones.
Now, if you look at this:
vs
the differences in terms of IQ (especially aliasing), DOF, lighting, and things like tress or crowd is massive. The final footage is nowhere near the original reveal.
Also, guys. What if the mandatory Day One Update for Forza that finishes the game adds the 3D models, and the 2D models are just place holders?
Also, guys. What if the mandatory Day One Update for Forza that finishes the game adds the 3D models, and the 2D models are just place holders?
LOL...now that would crack me up. All those Dan crowd members being gone would make me sad though.
PuppetMaster
Member
...
Why are you only trying to show all the downgrades without showing the improvement T10 made to the track?
You know what it mean? The first gameplay reveal of Halo 5 better look exactly like the final game or else people will have a lot of fun tearing it apart one compressed youtube shot at a time!
PuppetMaster
Member
someone already has made it
Took me a while to spot him lol. This thread has taken a turn for the glorious
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
Stop fighting. We have upgrades and downgrade!
Some part have been downgraded:
Like the crowds:
Reveal:
Final:
And here removed crowds(also look at the trees and other environment details)
Jimmy Fallon Show:
Final:
Reflections and lighting:
Jimmy Fallon Show:
Final:
Some parts have been upgraded:
Like buildings:
But I think those buildings just weren't finshed by the time they had to show the game, so the quickly made place holders.
I'd say we have a pretty noticable downgrade in lighting, refelections, environment details, crowds.
But there are also some unfinished parts in the reveal trailer that look better in the final product because they're finished in the final product.
Some part have been downgraded:
Like the crowds:
Reveal:
Final:
And here removed crowds(also look at the trees and other environment details)
Jimmy Fallon Show:
Final:
Reflections and lighting:
Jimmy Fallon Show:
Final:
Some parts have been upgraded:
Like buildings:
But I think those buildings just weren't finshed by the time they had to show the game, so the quickly made place holders.
I'd say we have a pretty noticable downgrade in lighting, refelections, environment details, crowds.
But there are also some unfinished parts in the reveal trailer that look better in the final product because they're finished in the final product.
Yep, it was played up by many a poster.
djblackice
Member
a) you callin someone for cherry-picking.. its an insult
b) learn to think ahead Nib....
imagine the case where you manage to piss gestault just enough, so that he goes through GT6 and cherry pick aaaall the bad apples, juust like you've been doing for months in forza....
you think you can handle that? ....just sayin'...may wanna think about it ;D
WTF is this shit? Scare tactics?
Yeesh.
Dictator93
Member
...
Why are you only trying to show all the downgrades without showing the improvement T10 made to the track?
The improvements to the "track" look like art updates more than technological triumphs.
The crowd and everything else looks like technical downgrade. Because they are.
DragonSworne
Banned
The buildings looks 2d.
George Claw M.D.
Member
Please let this become a thing lol
I'm dying here.
Woah. The top one looks like real life at first glance. Much better lightning.All your comparisons so far involve things that look like obvious placeholders and unfinished bits of the tracks. They're almost completely different building, not improved version of the same ones.
Now, if you look at this:
vs
the differences in terms of IQ (especially aliasing), DOF, lighting, and things like tress or crowd is massive. The final footage is nowhere near the original reveal.
Forza was never a visual masterpiece, don't get what the fuss is about. It's a SIM racer, the technical aspects that should be prime focus are the tire and physics model.
Graphical downgrade is obvious but fully expected considering the resolution and frame rate they were going for in the Bone and the SDK issues cited by the Buttocks.
Graphical downgrade is obvious but fully expected considering the resolution and frame rate they were going for in the Bone and the SDK issues cited by the Buttocks.
seventynine
Member
Somebody get the "oh you" guy in there. Bonus points for getting the dog in too.
Please let this become a thing lol
eso76
Member
A lot of fine geometry is missing in places, but lighting is an improvement IMHO.
It was harsh, with crushed blacks and limited dynamic range before.
Somehow that punchy look people liked to call 'lol, forza cartoon lighting and colours lol' now is 'whoa, it looked so real !'.
Looks a lot more convincing now tbh, and overall the game looks very pretty.
I wonder what photo mode is going to look like here though
Those buildings are obviously not as detailed now.
It was harsh, with crushed blacks and limited dynamic range before.
Somehow that punchy look people liked to call 'lol, forza cartoon lighting and colours lol' now is 'whoa, it looked so real !'.
Looks a lot more convincing now tbh, and overall the game looks very pretty.
I wonder what photo mode is going to look like here though
Those buildings are obviously not as detailed now.
are you scared?
btw, all guys judging this simracer's graphics...
please write me a note when another (even arcade) racer comes up with 1080/60 locked.
that would be good enough to notice.
now, if there will EVER be another proper console simracer with good physics at 1080/60 locked, that would be fantastic, but for now it remains to be seen....
i think it will be the same, even though these pics existed way before the xbone was manufactured.
Has it not always been so?
Same happened last gen with GT5 and Forza 4, whole thread dedicated to it.
Why are people not allowed to judge the graphics? ........ especially in relation to a downgrade and in a DF thread!
Anyone casting doubt on the gameplay, physics etc based on graphics would be an idiot .......... and I don't see that in here.
I doubt you will respond.
Was it not running at 1080p/60fps at E3?
What caused the downgrade if it was already running at desired resolution and framerate.
There is no way that Knack is objectively a 4!
Chuck Norris
Banned
Because they showed off the game with 3D crowds, touting the power of Xbox One. Then pulled a fast one at the last minute
And its no surprise that they are still showing 3D crowds in the TV spot
PuppetMaster
Member
Noone has said otherwise.
Only that previous preview builds for this game have been misleading.
well your doubts are unfounded of course.
also, you cost me five minutes because I had to re-check the DF article that this topic refers to, and you put in the same sentence with the word "downgrade"
so I checked the article again, and it mentions not even once the word "downgrade".
on the contrary, I find the article to be extremely positive about forza's graphics.
do you mind providing the quotation where digital foundry speaks about the downgrades?
Agreed. It sucks that during launch, you're running on approximate spec hardware.
This is a DF thread, in which the focus is on graphics.
People have noticed a downgrade in graphics since E3.
Since this is a thread about the quality of graphics and not gameplay, physics etc the downgrade issues have been raised in this thread.
I never said this was a DF downgrade thread or that DF said their was a downgrade, you have read my post wrong ........ that is plain and obvious to see.
We are discussing the downgrade in a DF thread.
Windom Earle
Member
Just watched the replay video from MEGA and you guys weren't kidding, the crowds are hilarious. Forza 3 and 4 also had this, but I think it was never that obvious.
Even despite this, it's not looking too hot. The game looks pretty last gen. I am expecting the real next gen Forza with F6. It was similar with the F2>F3 transition. They obviously had to rush this out of the gate.
Even despite this, it's not looking too hot. The game looks pretty last gen. I am expecting the real next gen Forza with F6. It was similar with the F2>F3 transition. They obviously had to rush this out of the gate.
That was a great review, and the footage was insane.
Fun Factor
Formerly FTWer
The review where he stated this was his first time ever reviewing a racing game?
My jaw dropped when he was describing how winning races gave you money & you could in turn choose to buy more cars with that or keep playing & save even more money to buy even better cars, as somehow this was a first in a racing game.
Metalmurphy
Member
Biggest let down is actually the shadowing imo.
You mean like the GT5 standards debacle and the DriveClub threads?
Anyway people are scrutinizing on the downgrades/upgrades, and not exactly the overall look of the game, which is great.
This is more about vindicating what CBOAT/Thuway said then anything else.
It's not common for games to be visually downgraded before launch (at least not noticeably), comparative to their initial gameplay reveal, which is why it doesn't blow up as much with other games (though people certainly still try). Usually games receive upgrades as they get better polished/optimised during late development, as was the case for example with Ryse, Shadow Fall, Knack and other games.
I don't know if anyone remembers, but I actually thought that Forza 5 would be visually upgraded before launch compared to the initial reveal (contrary to later insider titbits), as they got to better grips with the hardware. Well, evidently I was wrong. As I was about a few predictions this new gen...
Hawk269
Member
That part is a joke right? If not, you really think the game looks like a current gen title? Have you had your eyes checked recently?
Well, I just bailed out last-minute and canceled my Xbox One preorder. This overall downgrade was just the final straw for me, all these technical compromises just aren't worth the 500+ for me at this point. 2D crowds just aren't acceptable anymore. For me, a next-gen console is about being convinced of having something awesome at hand, and with too many "minor" flaws like this (and the aliasing and the desaturation, for that matter) it's not going to happen.
Windom Earle
Member
Assets and lighting are not next gen. Only the resolution is, but it is missing AA so the IQ improvement is bittersweet. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPAQa6Scbdc
drugstore_cowboy
Member
On the cars?
I was hoping to see better shadowing, apart from being a cool effect it gives some real depth to the vehicles.
Forza has never done it properly.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
As an Xbox fan I really don't blame you. I'm disappointed as well.
the most important part of the graphics is the resolution and the framerate. this is a racing game. so help me understand you here, you pass framerate and resolution not as graphics related, but as ...gameplay or ...phsyics?
for this generation, I am willing to bet that there is no better than what forza achieves day 1 in these fundamentals.
and DF article is a testament to that, not to downgrade bullshit.
unless somebody believes that there is a chance for >1080p@60hz, or 1080p@>60hz, which is kind of laughable.
also, people have noticed grahical upgrades too. they even made gifs about them!
yet they where called out as <<cherry pickers>>
one might think that a quality game gets its loads balanced at the end of development, so as to make sure that its primary goal, the 1080/60 is always kept intact.
but no, as I read here, the <<upgrades where unifinished placeholders>>, <<buildings where placed to hide popup>>, and the other bullshit I have read in forza topics today...
its all about them downgrades...
so please continue, just -as i wrote above- let me know when/if another racer -let alone a simracer- reaches 1080p/60 locked and has better shadows in the windows of the second floor of a building, or if it has more than 400.000 spectators lying around the track, that have better detail than forza's 400.000
Metalmurphy
Member
Just overall, much lower res both in scenery and cockpit. No more hard shadows, just blobs. They also moved them around so you mostly see building shadows and not much shadows from tree branches/leafs etc. In the previous build you could even see the shadows form the wheel and hands perfectly on the dashboard. That's the kind of thing that really brings life to the game when all those shadows are just moving fast past the interior of the cockpit.