NullPointer
Member
Its back.
Did it have an embedded trailer before?
Did it have an embedded trailer before?
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Forza 5: The monetization is even worse than you think.
- Thread starter NullPointer
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What.
Lol such damage control
Fornaximus
Member
On what legitimate grounds could they possibly demand it be taken down?
QuicheFontaine
Member
Someone do "track changes"
Maybe the site don't want to get on MS's bad side
NoPiece
Member
If it contained factual inaccuracies (like prices or car counts) that needed to be changed, it would be fair to take it down until the corrections were made.
If you take an article down and make changes, you should note what they were.
megamerican
Member
I'm surprised MS wanted that taken down. The language used is practically out of a PR handbook.
I'm guessing they just hadn't signed off on it yet. Their anxiousness is pretty encouraging. They know they're in the wrong.
Necromanti
Member
This seems like an unprecedented use of monetization for a console game, especially at such ridiculous prices. I don't understand how Microsoft is already on this downward spiral of fumbling everything up at the beginning of the next generation. Unthinkable.
Hilarious.
QuicheFontaine
Member
Damn, that was quick. Does anyone have the old version open in a tab to compare?
threatening to cut them off, of course.
NoPiece
Member
The article is pretty good - tough but fair questions. For me, the locking cars in free drive is one the biggest problems, and Turn 10's answer is very weak. That you did it in Forza Horizon isn't a real justification. Maybe I want to drive a wide variety of cars before I buy and "get invested"...
spideydouble
Neo Member
This unbridled arrogance and greed is truly shameful. I'll be boycotting any retail games that use micro-transactions for anything other than cosmetic effects (e.g., Batman Arkham City skins). It breaks my heart what Turn 10 has done to the Forza Motorsport franchise. Real Racing 3 déjà vu hubris.
i don't really get the hoopla over this issue, aside from day one dlc - thats absurd, but i guess you guys are gaining traction with this. maybe you'll get them to revise pricing and/or the in game economy to be a bit less grindy. both things i'm for.
WarMacheen
Member
Defends amount of content, are you fucking kidding me. Come the fuck on. Turn 10 released a game with a fraction of the content, developed to push people to spend even more money and you fucking defend it. Fuck you Turn 10, seriously there is no plausible explanation that doesn't involve greed and the screwing over of loyal customers.
ArkkAngel007
Member
Really good questions, and probably the most bullshit answers I've ever seen out of PR.
WarMacheen
Member
The answers in this article are a down right fucking farse. Stop beating around the bush and tell us the truth about micro transactions and day 1 DLC for a game that has less than Forza 2.
Really, this is an outright bold face lie. If it was so important you wouldn't have gimped it as compared to past iterations.
Stop with the bullshit and tell us, it was just greed. But that will never happen, because you think gamers are complete idiots
We want you to feel more attached to cars and make them harder to get because there are less of them.
Really, this is an outright bold face lie. If it was so important you wouldn't have gimped it as compared to past iterations.
Stop with the bullshit and tell us, it was just greed. But that will never happen, because you think gamers are complete idiots
We want you to feel more attached to cars and make them harder to get because there are less of them.
Bloodworth
Member
bloodreign
Member
I would be incredibly insulted by that interview if I owned that game....won't be picking Forza 5 up, what a load of shit interview.
Captin Quacker
Member
After the xbox one reveal back in may i'm not suprised about this
seattle6418
Member
This is a joke. Seriously. When you do damage control and the damage control manages to irate gamers, it would be best not to do any type of damage control.
Yeah. Same here. I put countless hours into Forza 3 and 4, really good console racing games, but Forza 5 can f' itself. Goes for all future Forza games as well if they don't change their greedy "strategy".
spideydouble
Neo Member
But the higher ups may scramble to remove anything that is causing disastrous unit sales for the franchise and/or Xbox One. This debacle absolutely sickens me. It is no doubt turning many potential Turn 10 and Microsoft customers away in utter disgust.
NullPointer
Member
Yep. Those are some serious calorie free non-answers.
transformer
Member
I definitely understand the frustration with the monetization of games. I'm not fan and despite enjoying Forza 5, I will not buy any tokens. However, I'm seeing some numbers of 454 hours to get access for all the content of the game and that is just not accurate. A few things to note:
1. This is based off of buying every car in the game and the earnings from racing. You get money from your drivatar, rewards for playing the game, and any tunes, liveries, vinyls you share. This adds up and is a source of game credits. Additionally you start off with access to 40 cars in free play mode and even more in rivals mode that historically has rotated access to cars. In other words, you get access to ~ 25% of the cars from day one. And for you savvy folks out there, a method to free play any car in the game has been discovered... So that brings the grand total down to: 0 hours.
2. I've played for less than ten hours and have access to ~70 cars based on rivals, my garage, and free play.
3. You simply do not NEED to buy every car in the game. GT5 would most likely also take 100+ hours to obtain every car but what is the point? This is not a typical objective of a game player. Do I need to save up >$10 million to buy EVERY indy car or just buy one of them since it is practically a spec racing series? This can be had for $3million. The same for GT5. Do you need all 50 skylines? Of course not. I've played over 20 racing games and never once obtained all the cars or even thought about trying to do so.
4. There has been much talk about how unobtainable the most expensive car in the game is at $6million. Many already have it after one weekend of playing. Putting in much less time that some have claimed it would take (HINT: other revenue streams for in game credits are available).
The real issue at hand is in whether or not in the long term, for those that actually play the game, will be constrained from obtaining the cars they want and face the choice of paying or grinding to obtain them. I haven't hit this problem yet, but perhaps I will. I certainly have in other games (e.g. GT5) but at the moment I have plenty of in game credits and access to plenty of cars or Forza. By next week I will have access to well over half of the cars. I see similar feedback from others who actually own and play the game. Time will tell on how this economy in Forza 5 ultimately pans out, but this rhetoric claiming 400+ hours of playing to simply access cars is just plain ridiculous.
1. This is based off of buying every car in the game and the earnings from racing. You get money from your drivatar, rewards for playing the game, and any tunes, liveries, vinyls you share. This adds up and is a source of game credits. Additionally you start off with access to 40 cars in free play mode and even more in rivals mode that historically has rotated access to cars. In other words, you get access to ~ 25% of the cars from day one. And for you savvy folks out there, a method to free play any car in the game has been discovered... So that brings the grand total down to: 0 hours.
2. I've played for less than ten hours and have access to ~70 cars based on rivals, my garage, and free play.
3. You simply do not NEED to buy every car in the game. GT5 would most likely also take 100+ hours to obtain every car but what is the point? This is not a typical objective of a game player. Do I need to save up >$10 million to buy EVERY indy car or just buy one of them since it is practically a spec racing series? This can be had for $3million. The same for GT5. Do you need all 50 skylines? Of course not. I've played over 20 racing games and never once obtained all the cars or even thought about trying to do so.
4. There has been much talk about how unobtainable the most expensive car in the game is at $6million. Many already have it after one weekend of playing. Putting in much less time that some have claimed it would take (HINT: other revenue streams for in game credits are available).
The real issue at hand is in whether or not in the long term, for those that actually play the game, will be constrained from obtaining the cars they want and face the choice of paying or grinding to obtain them. I haven't hit this problem yet, but perhaps I will. I certainly have in other games (e.g. GT5) but at the moment I have plenty of in game credits and access to plenty of cars or Forza. By next week I will have access to well over half of the cars. I see similar feedback from others who actually own and play the game. Time will tell on how this economy in Forza 5 ultimately pans out, but this rhetoric claiming 400+ hours of playing to simply access cars is just plain ridiculous.
listen, i dont want to get into an argument here - but you are missing out on BY FAR the best playing forza ever. the physics and AI are the biggest step the series has ever taken. you can ignore pleas for "accelerating" progress. you can ignore tokens. you can refrain from ever buying dlc. you can even bitch that you wish there was more content. but any fan of forza should be playing forza 5. the actual game, the reason why we buy these things, is so god damned good.
wapplew
Member
Hey, Bloodworth, great review on Forza for pointing out all MT, lack of content and day 1 DLC unlike other outlets.
Do you think we should give a baseline score for the game quality and deduct 0.5 from MT and day 1 DLC?
It should be a good practice to keep MT out of full price retail game.
weekend_warrior
Banned
That's probably the worst answer to a question I've ever seen.
I understand where you're coming from, then again I don't want to support any of this. I don't want to encourage MS microtransactions are the way to go next gen. They are a total turnoff on mobile devices and even more so when I put down $60 for a console game.
I'm totally fine with DLC if they add meaningful content. I understand game devs and publishers need to make money, we've lost quite a few good ones this year. But if you can't even drive all the friggin cars in free play, or at least it's limited, then that's just fucking awful. The answers Greenawalt gave in the Shacknews interview are just the icing on the top, really. They need a Xbox 180 to win me back for the Forza franchise.
Can you ignore half the cars and tracks from Forza 4 that are missing this time around?
Sorry, but that fact, coupled with the ridiculous microtransactions, means that this Forza fan will be skipping this iteration completely. If they can get their shit straight by Forza 6 I might consider giving it a go, but I'm not optimistic. It's pretty clear, judging by the earlier interview, that they don't really give a shit about their community, and are more than happy to fleece us for as much as they can. I don't see any changes to Forza 5 or 6 based off of fan feedback when they're completely ignoring the issue in interviews.
thesolidshark
Member
If it's good enough to where you want to use all the cars, seems like some shitty options for getting there.
On the contrary. as a dyed in the wool Forza fan I would recommend the exact opposite. I don't know how much participation you had in the community side of things in previous games but what has been removed from the formula and the limitations on what is still present is far too high a price to pay to access the core game. If you support the game with the intention of ignoring the content you are still giving tacit endorsement to the changes.
I adore the new driving model, you are not exaggerating, it is without doubt the best it's ever been. Whomever is responsible for the business model though doesn't share our opinion. Locking such a good game behind this kind of progression and business model shows that they value the work of their artists and engineers so little it's insulting. I would be crushed if I'd worked on the game.
I would refund my Limited Edition in a heartbeat if I hadn't already opened it and redeemed the bonuses while it was downloading. If you value the work the Forza team can do and especially if you are a fan of the series; buying Forza 5 is the worst thing you could do for the franchise.
Except maybe spending a thousand bucks on tokens.
abso-fucking-lutely.
i grew up in an age where i paid $100 for virtua racing on the genesis. what would that be today with inflation? only 3 tracks? a few cars? i was happy with the purchase. now we are fucking spoiled. 200 cars and 14 tracks isnt enough? nonsense.
the bottom line is we pay what something is worth. fm5 is soooo worth 60 irregardless of how much content fm4 had. find value in what is added to the game. again, the ai and physics are leaps and bounds above fm4 and without a doubt the biggest step in the franchise. it makes such a huge ifference in game, while racing.
but yeah. dropped tracks and cars. it will take ages to own them all (who does that?).
staticneuron
Member
He did. Right here.
It implies there is day one DLC because the content wasn't there when disc went gold. It also implies that they are continuing to create content and knew this was going to happen.
For reference, despite the amount of time it took for GT5 to get released they only had around 250 premium vehicles (modeled inside and out), while the other cars were reworked and ported from earlier title. People complained about the standard models in GT5, so why would Turn10 even consider trying something like what PD did?
I actually spent over 100 hours in GT5. My garage was over 350, before I lost my data. Tempted to try to put the time in again.... but it makes no sense with GT6 around the corner.
But originally they said they would release most of the game on disc and would have a patch ready to provide more content to users on day 1. Now that's turned into a "patch" that most of us call DLC and is being charged.
Bloodworth
Member
I don't think its wise to try to set up some kind of formula for scoring. You have to judge how this stuff effects each game. NFS Rivals has some fringe shortcut DLC that doesn't even seem worth mentioning. The game hands out cars faster than you can keep up.
Forza on the other hand takes time to save up for cars you need to compete. And makes sure to remind you about tokens and to recommend events that require DLC cars. I can understand them deciding to rebuild things from scratch, and I think Gran Turismo's desire to always boast bigger numbers has cost them in consistency. Still, I can't fathom how Turn 10 thought launch day DLC packs were a good idea in a game with half the cars, and the cars they picked as DLC aren't some kind of last minute afterthoughts. There's no way those cars wouldn't have made it into the game.
Anways, trying not to get too worked up on it. Loving the game, hating the business model. Wish I could test out that Lotus, but it will probably never happen.
there is a glitch. check the fm5 OT
staticneuron
Member
I have no idea about that.
That is definitely their fault if they promised a patch to add content then turned around and charged for it.
But in terms of the question....
The dev's reply implies that they didn't have the content ready before the game when gold. But it wasn't explicit/straight forward, so this could be PR to dance around the issue.
aspiegamer
Member
Ah, so, methods justified because there's a hack that lets you get everything! Maybe, just maybe people should expect a game where they don't feel a need to use exploits to access content? Nah. That would be far too reasonable. Screw 'em and those losers that won't desperately research stuff like this and play the game normally, am I rite?
Seriously? It's all okay now because someone found an exploit? Is that how far we've come?
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