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[weekend_warrior]

He did. Right here.


It implies there is day one DLC because the content wasn't there when disc went gold. It also implies that they are continuing to create content and knew this was going to happen.

Didn't the disk only come with half the data and you had to download the other half? So clearly a lot of the game wasn't ready when the game went gold. That doesn't explain why, when they clearly recognized the game would be lite on content, they still stuck some of it behind yet another paywall.

"Hey Forza fans, thanks for spending $500 for a console and $60 on our game. Now please spend more money!"

 

[op_ivy]

Ah, so, methods justified because there's a hack that lets you get everything! Maybe, just maybe people should expect a game where they don't feel a need to use exploits to access content? Nah. That would be far too reasonable. Screw 'em and those losers that won't desperately research stuff like this and play the game normally, am I rite?

Seriously? It's all okay because someone found an exploit? Talk about being an apologist.

talk about hyperbole.

 

[Blazyr]

Careful with those pitchforks folks.

I reached out to Microsoft because I wanted to discuss the subject on the Weekend Confirmed we recorded today. I asked some of the hard questions that I had.

Dan replied via email to my questions, through Microsoft PR.

Because they were longer than I expected and I wanted to be sure they were not misquoted coming from the show so I passed it over to Andrew to publish the transcript and as a courtesy let Microsoft know I was doing so.

Microsoft asked for a hold while the comments were approved for online publication. We had already pushed the publish button. As they had provided the access and responses to not honor that request would obviously negatively impact future conversations with their developers.

I knew I had the answers and that we discussed them on the show so there was no risk of their content being changed. And had they been I simply would not have run them, waited for the show to run, and then publish the transcript of the show.

And that's all there is to it. If I want to be able to ask these folks questions, I have to show them professional respect. As for the answers, I leave them to speak for themselves. I too have follow ups on a number of issues that seemingly went unaddressed. I can ask the questions but I cannot force the answers.

 

[NullPointer]

But originally they said they would release most of the game on disc and would have a patch ready to provide more content to users on day 1. Now that's turned into a "patch" that most of us call DLC and is being charged.

That's certainly what it looks like. So none of the DLC content was slated for initial release? None of it was finished by the time they "finished". I would say by the time they went gold, but considering the 6GB update who knows when they actually finished.

In terms of what can be ignored thats really down to the individual, but Horizon was a stepping stone towards these monetization efforts in Forza 5 and now the mainline Forza has raised the ante significantly. What does that mean for Horizon 2? What do people expect when these are the in-game purchase offers at launch?

Edit: And thanks for the details Garnett - taking the article down temporarily seemed odd but you did ask some on-point questions. It would have been nice if they answered them.

 

[aspiegamer]

talk about hyperbole.

Can I ask how it's hyperbole? Literally, justification for the system was offered because an exploit has been revealed.

 

[Izayoi]

^ Not to mention the fact that they'll fix the exploit pretty quickly, no doubt, and we'll be right back where we started.

And for you savvy folks out there, a method to free play any car in the game has been discovered... So that brings the grand total down to: 0 hours.

What happens when they patch it out?

 

[Proc]

Shame about this nickle and diming news. My copy shipped yesterday and for what its worth I'm having a super fun time easing into the simulation. The micro transactions haven't gotten in the way of my campaign experience so far. As a casual racing fan I have to say I'm very impressed with my purchase thus far. The graphics seem top notch. I'm wowed in cockpit view on a regular basis. Its just such a tight launch package. This, FIFA, ac4, and zelda will continue to eat up all of my free gaming time.

 

[Warewolf]

The dev's reply implies that they didn't have the content ready before the game when gold. But it wasn't explicit/straight forward, so this could be PR to dance around the issue.

Even if that wasn't just PR twinkletoes it's still moot. If the content was available to be downloaded for $10 on day one it was available to be pushed to everyone's game with the mandatory day one update for free.

Not a straight answer in the whole article.

 

[op_ivy]

Can I ask how it's hyperbole? Literally, justification for the system was offered because an exploit has been revealed.

Ah, so, methods justified because there's a hack that lets you get everything! Maybe, just maybe people should expect a game where they don't feel a need to use exploits to access content? Nah. That would be far too reasonable. Screw 'em and those losers that won't desperately research stuff like this and play the game normally, am I rite?

Seriously? It's all okay now because someone found an exploit? Is that how far we've come?

"Hyperbole is the use of exaggeration as a rhetorical device or figure of speech. It may be used to evoke strong feelings or to create a strong impression"




i really tried to avoid this thread. i did. but a few beers in me and i couldnt help myself. people, buy what you value. if you want to be a martyr because of a lack of content from previous games (i guess the expectation is that fm10/gt11 will have 10's of thousands of cars and hundreds of tracks?) or from a perceived deceit from the publisher/developer, by all means.

 

[Izayoi]

Not a straight answer in the whole article.

Probably the most unsurprising thing about the whole deal. Bury their heads in the sand and hope we'll forget about it.

 

[staticneuron]

Didn't the disk only come with half the data and you had to download the other half? So clearly a lot of the game wasn't ready when the game went gold. That doesn't explain why, when they clearly recognized the game would be lite on content, they still stuck some of it behind yet another paywall.

"Hey Forza fans, thanks for spending $500 for a console and $60 on our game. Now please spend more money!"

I am not sure how it works over there with MS. And I am playing devils advocate here, but in terms of going gold, whether it is on disc or downloaded, normally it has to go through a QA process. When I said ready to go gold I meant both digital and physical after the QA process.

It could be that content created after initial ship, is sold as DLC to continue funding the creation of more content.

Even if that wasn't just PR twinkletoes it's still moot. If the content was available to be downloaded for $10 on day one it was available to be pushed to everyone's game with the mandatory day one update for free.

Not a straight answer in the whole article.

Yeah, I'm not really stating as fact just speculating. It seems as if they caused themselves a little PR mess and they are the ones that can clarify it.

 

[Warewolf]

if you want to be a martyr because of a lack of content from previous games (i guess the expectation is that fm10/gt11 will have 10's of thousands of cars and hundreds of tracks?) or from a perceived deceit from the publisher/developer, by all means.

For what it's worth man, anyone up in arms about the "lost" tracks and cars are missing the point by just as much as the people defending the new systems.

I don't know how deeply into the community stuff many of the guys responding in here are but the unannounced changes they made to the community features alongside a severely hampered progression system would be bad enough, even if it wasn't coupled with hundreds of dollars in micro-transactions.

The whole thing is sour.

 

[SeventhSon]

Careful with those pitchforks folks.

I reached out to Microsoft because I wanted to discuss the subject on the Weekend Confirmed we recorded today. I asked some of the hard questions that I had.

Dan replied via email to my questions, through Microsoft PR.

Because they were longer than I expected and I wanted to be sure they were not misquoted coming from the show so I passed it over to Andrew to publish the transcript and as a courtesy let Microsoft know I was doing so.

Microsoft asked for a hold while the comments were approved for online publication. We had already pushed the publish button. As they had provided the access and responses to not honor that request would obviously negatively impact future conversations with their developers.

I knew I had the answers and that we discussed them on the show so there was no risk of their content being changed. And had they been I simply would not have run them, waited for the show to run, and then publish the transcript of the show.

And that's all there is to it. If I want to be able to ask these folks questions, I have to show them professional respect. As for the answers, I leave them to speak for themselves. I too have follow ups on a number of issues that seemingly went unaddressed. I can ask the questions but I cannot force the answers.

Blazyr is Garnett Lee of Shacknews in case anyone doesn't know.

 

[AlexMogil]

What happened to the wealth of community features that made Forza so strong? It's surprising to see so much gone on a new console that's build to be community oriented. Where are clubs Storefront? Custom lobbies? Gifting of liveries and tuning?

...

"Regarding car clubs, the new UI system in Forza Motorsport 5 means everything gets rebuilt. Being on the Xbox One gives us the opportunity to rethink old problems. The original Forza Motorsport featured Car Clubs, but Forza Motorsport 2 on the Xbox 360 didn't. For that matter, car clubs weren't in Forza Motorsport 3 either."



Guys. GUYS.

Clubs weren't in Forza 2, come on. Hell they weren't in Forza 3! You guys.

 

[HokieJoe]

I definitely understand the frustration with the monetization of games. I'm not fan and despite enjoying Forza 5, I will not buy any tokens. However, I'm seeing some numbers of 454 hours to get access for all the content of the game and that is just not accurate. A few things to note:

1. This is based off of buying every car in the game and the earnings from racing. You get money from your drivatar, rewards for playing the game, and any tunes, liveries, vinyls you share. This adds up and is a source of game credits. Additionally you start off with access to 40 cars in free play mode and even more in rivals mode that historically has rotated access to cars. In other words, you get access to ~ 25% of the cars from day one. And for you savvy folks out there, a method to free play any car in the game has been discovered... So that brings the grand total down to: 0 hours.

2. I've played for less than ten hours and have access to ~70 cars based on rivals, my garage, and free play.

3. You simply do not NEED to buy every car in the game. GT5 would most likely also take 100+ hours to obtain every car but what is the point? This is not a typical objective of a game player. Do I need to save up >$10 million to buy EVERY indy car or just buy one of them since it is practically a spec racing series? This can be had for $3million. The same for GT5. Do you need all 50 skylines? Of course not. I've played over 20 racing games and never once obtained all the cars or even thought about trying to do so.

4. There has been much talk about how unobtainable the most expensive car in the game is at $6million. Many already have it after one weekend of playing. Putting in much less time that some have claimed it would take (HINT: other revenue streams for in game credits are available).

The real issue at hand is in whether or not in the long term, for those that actually play the game, will be constrained from obtaining the cars they want and face the choice of paying or grinding to obtain them. I haven't hit this problem yet, but perhaps I will. I certainly have in other games (e.g. GT5) but at the moment I have plenty of in game credits and access to plenty of cars or Forza. By next week I will have access to well over half of the cars. I see similar feedback from others who actually own and play the game. Time will tell on how this economy in Forza 5 ultimately pans out, but this rhetoric claiming 400+ hours of playing to simply access cars is just plain ridiculous.

Good post.

 

[spideydouble]

After the xbox one reveal back in may i'm not suprised about this

That's the problem. Maybe Microsoft was counting on increased revenues from no rentals or used sales and now is going to take their pound of flesh with micro-transactions, subscriptions, and strategically removed content sold as DLC. God forbid they start charging players for game patches.

I wonder how many car models from very recent Forza 4 and Forza Horizon DLC (content created with Turn 10 well aware of Forzavista requirements) were left out of the game and will be resold as upcoming monthly DLC. DLC that Turn 10 will tell us they had to build from the ground up.

 

[Shaneus]

Really good questions, and probably the most bullshit answers I've ever seen out of PR.

Is this your first Forza game?

But originally they said they would release most of the game on disc and would have a patch ready to provide more content to users on day 1. Now that's turned into a "patch" that most of us call DLC and is being charged.

So is it true that there really hasn't been a "day-one patch" that includes a stack of cars (and possibly tracks) that they couldn't include when it went gold? Because if they haven't (and all DLC thus far requires payment) then holy shit. Obviously that content was in line to be given away for free... but wasn't.

 

[Warm Machine]

I paid $50 for Ferrari F355 Challenge. The same for Manx TT on Saturn. I'm finding it hard to complain so far.

 

[Kyleoty]

For the Wheel Racers out there this is a transaction you can hold Tune in to the spartanshow live now to see it in action
http://www.twitch.tv/thespartanshow

 

[T Ghost]

I definitely understand the frustration with the monetization of games. I'm not fan and despite enjoying Forza 5, I will not buy any tokens. However, I'm seeing some numbers of 454 hours to get access for all the content of the game and that is just not accurate. A few things to note:

1. This is based off of buying every car in the game and the earnings from racing. You get money from your drivatar, rewards for playing the game, and any tunes, liveries, vinyls you share. This adds up and is a source of game credits. Additionally you start off with access to 40 cars in free play mode and even more in rivals mode that historically has rotated access to cars. In other words, you get access to ~ 25% of the cars from day one. And for you savvy folks out there, a method to free play any car in the game has been discovered... So that brings the grand total down to: 0 hours.

2. I've played for less than ten hours and have access to ~70 cars based on rivals, my garage, and free play.

3. You simply do not NEED to buy every car in the game. GT5 would most likely also take 100+ hours to obtain every car but what is the point? This is not a typical objective of a game player. Do I need to save up >$10 million to buy EVERY indy car or just buy one of them since it is practically a spec racing series? This can be had for $3million. The same for GT5. Do you need all 50 skylines? Of course not. I've played over 20 racing games and never once obtained all the cars or even thought about trying to do so.

4. There has been much talk about how unobtainable the most expensive car in the game is at $6million. Many already have it after one weekend of playing. Putting in much less time that some have claimed it would take (HINT: other revenue streams for in game credits are available).

The real issue at hand is in whether or not in the long term, for those that actually play the game, will be constrained from obtaining the cars they want and face the choice of paying or grinding to obtain them. I haven't hit this problem yet, but perhaps I will. I certainly have in other games (e.g. GT5) but at the moment I have plenty of in game credits and access to plenty of cars or Forza. By next week I will have access to well over half of the cars. I see similar feedback from others who actually own and play the game. Time will tell on how this economy in Forza 5 ultimately pans out, but this rhetoric claiming 400+ hours of playing to simply access cars is just plain ridiculous.

Although I'm not happy with the excessive monetization in the game, excellent post. Balanced opinion from someone who actually experienced the game.

I would like to share my experience with the game. First a disclosure: I'm a VIP, diehard fan of console sims. This means I level up at twice the normal pace for being VIP (leveling up gets you about 35k in credits), I play with all assist off (55% bonus in credits) and drivatar on expert (35% bonus in credits) and VIPs receive free cars from Turn 10 from time to time. My average winnings from races is about $8-9k. ANYONE who is a hardcore fan of the series/console sim races should/would/could have the same experience as me.

That said, here's what I got by now: four cars in my garage (three are a gift from Turn 10 for being a VIP) at the total value of 540,000; 274,066 credits available and already spent 143,800 credits in upgrades. Total is 957,866 credits earn in cash, cars. and upgrades As of now, my time spent with the game is: 1h29m racing, 58m test driving, 34m upgrading, 16m tuning, total time played is 3h17m. I'm not grinding at all, just playing the game however I like it, used only two cars in career. The speed you earn money in this game is significantly higher than previous iterations of the series.

I say to everyone to rent or buy the game, used if you will. If you think the monetization is worse than the amazing experience that game provides by racing, upgrading, tunning, painting liveries, playing online and its not for you, just return/sell the game back. The game per se is really, really awesome and it is a shame to miss on this experience.

 

[NullPointer]

4. There has been much talk about how unobtainable the most expensive car in the game is at $6million. Many already have it after one weekend of playing. Putting in much less time that some have claimed

I'm curious how they did this. What methods and how long did it take?

And as far as your own progress goes, are you a VIP with double rewards?

And one more general question about buying cars in Forza 5. Can you mix tokens and credits? Or is it all or nothing either way?

 

[nib95]

I'm curious how they did this. What methods and how long did it take?

And as far as your own progress goes, are you a VIP with double rewards?

I'd like to know the too.

 

[ArkkAngel007]

Is this your first Forza game?

Yes (well, aside from some casual play at a mates once in a blue moon), but how does that apply? To be fair, the questions are only good because hardly anyone else in the media is asking those things.

I have issues with how they're handling the pricing of the micro-model, and it's obvious that. Now, I've been trying to find out what the earnings per races and such are for being rather uninformed, but you can imagine how difficult that is when everyone is how they are. So if it's that these vehicles are not as hard to earn as suggested by Eurogamer and possibly people speaking more from word of mouth than experience, then believe me, that's not entirely my focus. I am a bit pissed off about hearing about things being removed from the franchise that would have alleviated some of the issues though.

 

[luoapp]

And for you savvy folks out there, a method to free play any car in the game has been discovered...
...
Many already have it after one weekend of playing. Putting in much less time that some have claimed it would take (HINT: other revenue streams for in game credits are available)....

If you want to share some information, then just say it. Hinting and hiding makes it sound less than legit ( is it?), and only a patch way from being disabled ( or banned).

 

[T Ghost]

I'm curious how they did this. What methods and how long did it take?

And as far as your own progress goes, are you a VIP with double rewards?

And one more general question about buying cars in Forza 5. Can you mix tokens and credits? Or is it all or nothing either way?

I'm a VIP and I don't get double rewards for being VIP. What I get is double driver points to level up my drivatar. Every time we gain a drivatar level, VIP or not, we get about $35k in rewards.

If you don't have enough credits to buy a car, the only options is to buy with tokens only. I have zero plans of ever using any tokens besides the 1,350 I gained from the LE/VIP thing so I couldn't care less for any option based on tokens.

All I can say now is that I don't feel restricted in the game. Earning credits is significantly faster than previous Forzas.

If you want to share some information, then just say it. Hinting and hiding makes it sound less than legit ( is it?), and only a patch way from being disabled ( or banned).

It appears to be a glitch and it will probably be patched soon. All you need to do is to go like if you're renting any car in the Free play mode. then back up and go to buy a car option (still in the select a car on the free play). Go to your preferred car and go all the way before you actually buy the car. Now back up all the way to the mail free play screen and the car you were one step from buying is now selected as your car to play.

 

[Bloodworth]

I'm a VIP and I don't get double rewards for being VIP. What I get is double driver points to level up my drivatar. Every time we gain a drivatar level, VIP or not, we get about $35k in rewards.

If you don't have enough credits to buy a car, the only options is to buy with tokens only. I have zero plans of ever using any tokens besides the 1,350 I gained from the LE/VIP thing so I couldn't care less for any option based on tokens.

All I can say now is that I don't feel restricted in the game. Earning credits is significantly faster than previous Forzas.

do you start gaining more credits on higher levels? I've been getting about 15k per level (not a VIP).

 

[NullPointer]

I'm a VIP and I don't get double rewards for being VIP. What I get is double driver points to level up my drivatar. Every time we gain a drivatar level, VIP or not, we get about $35k in rewards.

If you don't have enough credits to buy a car, the only options is to buy with tokens only. I have zero plans of ever using any tokens besides the 1,350 I gained from the LE/VIP thing so I couldn't care less for any option based on tokens.

All I can say now is that I don't feel restricted in the game. Earning credits is significantly faster than previous Forzas.

Ahh, I was going off of the LE page on the Forza site:

VIP Membership – Forza Motorsport 5 VIPs enjoy exclusive benefits, including 2x player reward acceleration, access to exclusive multiplayer events, an exclusive in-game player card badge, and in-game gifts from the Forza community team

So that's not a direct credit reward, but you do get credits as you level? OK.

My asking whether you could mix tokens and cash was a tangent. But that means that according to the token prices in the OP that Lotus would cost $140-150 in tokens. Have the prices changed at all? I remember Helios saying that there was an error with how token package prices were being displayed, but haven't heard of a fix. I'd be happy to update the OP if so.

 

[Warewolf]

ANYONE who is a hardcore fan of the series/console sim races should/would/could have the same experience as me.

The speed you earn money in this game is significantly higher than previous iterations of the series.

The game per se is really, really awesome and it is a shame to miss on this experience.

Considering your experience comes in at $20 over what most players will spend makes a lot of difference when it comes to recommending the game. You are recommending an experience that is unattainable for a large audience of players that could have enjoyed previous titles without these changes. Adding the value of VIP gifted cars to your income calculations is a little disingenuous to boot.

I am a "VIP" as well, since 3 but I'm not able to put aside the rest of FM5's design for the extremely high quality gameplay. It's just not worth it to me. A majority of my time in previous games was spent in a gameplay loop that, due to the removal of selling cars, upgrades or created content; no longer exists. The reason I bought Forza 5 has been stripped from the game outright. I'm certain I'm not the only one.

If the business model bothers you, don't recommend it to others.

It's a shame the experience has been ruined for so many.

 

[J10]

That's the problem. Maybe Microsoft was counting on increased revenues from no rentals or used sales and now is going to take their pound of flesh with micro-transactions, subscriptions, and strategically removed content sold as DLC. God forbid they start charging players for game patches.

I wonder how many car models from very recent Forza 4 and Forza Horizon DLC (content created with Turn 10 well aware of Forzavista requirements) were left out of the game and will be resold as upcoming monthly DLC. DLC that Turn 10 will tell us they had to build from the ground up.

Small correction: What's happening in Forza now was always a part of their plan; it's not punishment for boohooing over the original always-online requirements. The reason they were pushing so hard for an always online console, aside from blocking used games, was so that they could do this for every single game. Look at their three first party launch titles - Forza, Ryse, Killer Instinct - all three include a la carte in-game purchases. This is the future they wanted to push for all games, first and third party. Give us less upfront and ask us to pay more at home. They needed the console to be always online to really enforce this. For now it's just gonna happen on a game by game basis.

 

[T Ghost]

Considering your experience comes in at $20 over what most players will spend makes a lot of difference when it comes to recommending the game. You are recommending an experience that is unattainable for a large audience of players that could have enjoyed previous titles without these changes. Adding the value of cars VIP gifted cars to your income calculations is a little disingenuous to boot.

I am a "VIP" as well, since 3 but I'm not able to put aside the rest of FM5's design for the extremely high quality gameplay. It's just not worth it to me. A majority of my time in previous games was spent in a gameplay loop that, due to the removal of selling cars, upgrades or created content; no longer exists. The reason I bought Forza 5 has been stripped from the game outright. I'm certain I'm not the only one.

If the business model bothers you, don't recommend it to others.

It's a shame the experience has been ruined for so many.

As I say, anyone who is a hardcore fan of console racing sims should not even think of not getting the VIP. I got for all FM that had it by now and it is really worth it. You get a lot of amazing cars gifted throughout the life of the game, some real unicorns.

Take out the VIP gifts (why should I? The game actually gave me those!) and I still made close to half a million credits for racing for 1h29m. You make money significantly faster than previous forzas. Especially if you are a VIP.

VIP aside, the racing, tunning, upgrading and painting experience is awesome for everyone. I still support that missing this gaming experience because of a business model, it is a shame, VIP or not. Just do not buy anything with tokens, enjoy the game and you sent the message to Turn 10 that this token shit is crap.

Ahh, I was going off of the LE page on the Forza site:


So that's not a direct credit reward, but you do get credits as you level? OK.

My asking whether you could mix tokens and cash was a tangent. But that means that according to the token prices in the OP that Lotus would cost $140-150 in tokens. Have the prices changed at all? I remember Helios saying that there was an error with how token package prices were being displayed, but haven't heard of a fix. I'd be happy to update the OP if so.

Lotus still 6kk credits or 10k tokens. At the speed I'm at, I project around 12-15 hours of racing to make 6kk.That said, I have no plans on acquiring the Lotus ATM. Racing it on free play is more than enough of lotus for me for now. In about 30 to 60 hours when I probably have several millions left, maybe.

 

[GooeyHeat]

What I'm confused about is this screenshot from the OP:

Why is it LESS value to buy MORE tokens at once? This can't be right. Surely Microsoft wouldn't rip people off THAT hard, right?

If it's $1.00 per 100 tokens, wouldn't $5.00 be 500 tokens? And yet, the $5.00 option gives 325 tokens.
I apologize if this was mentioned before, but it's really bugging me.

 

[NullPointer]

You make money significantly faster than previous forzas. Especially if you are a VIP.

Uh huh.

But I would hope so seeing as how you:

1. Paid for the privilege, and
2. Still have to buy those DLC cars you got via the limited edition using in-game currency.

 

[Partial Gamification]

What I'm confused about is this screenshot from the OP:

Why is it LESS value to buy MORE tokens at once? This can't be right. Surely Microsoft wouldn't rip people off THAT hard, right?

If it's $1.00 per 100 tokens, wouldn't $5.00 be 500 tokens? And yet, the $5.00 option gives 325 tokens.
I apologize if this was mentioned before, but it's really bugging me.

Let it go.

NeoGAF: trust but verify.

I pm'd OP about that...

 

[Warewolf]

VIP aside, the racing, tunning, upgrading and painting experience is awesome for everyone.

I guess I must not exist then? I have VIP and both progression and the "tuning, upgrading and painting experience" feel severely hampered, look at it this way. If the game is the way it is now, you can enjoy it while I can't, but if it was more inline with how the series has been built in the past we could both enjoy it.

There wouldn't be a 35 page thread trying to figure out what happened either.

 

[T Ghost]

Uh huh.

But I would hope so seeing as how you:

1. Paid for the privilege, and
2. Still have to buy those DLC cars you got via the limited edition using in-game currency.

1. Yes, I get the LE for the VIP, $20 extra. But as I only buy the LE since FM2, so nothing really an extra spend for me, if you get what I mean.
2. To be honest Im not attracted by the cars on the LE pack, but I can see why some people would. For being VIP, Turn 10 periodically gift you cars. I already got three in FM5. In FM3 I got a bunch, over two dozen gifts. I believe they send something every month. I don't have to pay any credit for these gifted cars and they usually sell well at the auction house if not my cup of tea. So for me the $20 for the VIP are more than worthy. But Im a diehard fan of console sims. I can see casual console sim players not seeing the same value.

 

[J10]

As I say, anyone who is a hardcore fan of console racing sims should not even think of not getting the VIP. I got for all FM that had it by now and it is really worth it. You get a lot of amazing cars gifted throughout the life of the game, some real unicorns.

Take out the VIP gifts (why should I? The game actually gave me those!) and I still made close to half a million credits for racing for 1h29m. You make money significantly faster than previous forzas. Especially if you are a VIP.

VIP aside, the racing, tunning, upgrading and painting experience is awesome for everyone. I still support that missing this gaming experience because of a business model, it is a shame, VIP or not. Just do not buy anything with tokens, enjoy the game and you sent the message to Turn 10 that this token shit is crap.

So, if you're earning 1 million credits every three hours, it would take you 18 hours to unlock the 6,000,000CR Lotus car in the OP, assuming you spend the credits on nothing else.

 

[T Ghost]

I guess I must not exist then? I have VIP and both progression and the "tuning, upgrading and painting experience" feel severely hampered, look at it this way. If the game is the way it is now, you can enjoy it while I can't, but if it was more inline with how the series has been built in the past we could both enjoy it.

There wouldn't be a 35 page thread trying to figure out what happened either.

Well, I'm having the time of my life with the game and I've been playing the game since FM1, preordered and played 100hr+ of every single FM.

You can't lose perspective that this is a launch game. If we were two years in the Xbox one life, I agree with you. I've been present in enough console launches to understand that it is a special moment in any console life and monetizations polemics aside, FM5 racing, upgrading and tuning being what it is at launch is amazing. Not to mentions it is absolutely gorgeous and sound is amazing when compared to FM4.

So, if you're earning 1 million credits every three hours, it would take you 18 hours to unlock the 6,000,000CR Lotus car in the OP, assuming you spend the credits on nothing else.

I'm assuming from the experience I have with the series that I'll make more money per race and get more money per drivatar level up as I progress to longer races and higher drivatar levels. Is this your first FM?

 

[T Ghost]

sorry for double post.

 

[ArkkAngel007]

Well, I'm having the time of my life with the game and I've been playing the game since FM1, preordered and played 100hr+ of every single FM.

You can't lose perspective that this is a launch game. If we were two years in the Xbox one life, I agree with you. I've been present in enough console launches to understand that it is a special moment in any console life and monetizations polemics aside, FM5 racing, upgrading and tuning being what it is at launch is amazing. Not to mentions it is absolutely gorgeous and sound is amazing when compared to FM4.



I'm assuming from the experience I have with the series that I'll make more money per race and get more money per drivatar level up as I progress to longer races and higher drivatar levels. Is this your first FM?

A lot of the things being levied towards FM5 have nothing to do with being a launch title. Fewer cars and tracks would be valid, as would any graphical/technical issues given the special hell Xbox One dev kits seemed to offer and the usual launch hiccups. But that's it. Everything else is fair game IMO at any release date in relation to the platform.

However, I've heard more from people here who haven't played the game to those who have, so maybe just people have different opinions and/or methods.

 

[Warewolf]

You can't lose perspective that this is a launch game.

I think we are talking about different things. I'm glad you enjoy the game, really. I wish my standards were that low.

I think the core racing experience is superb. Nothing I am referring to could be easily justified by a restrained development time. The way the community features were rebuilt would seemingly be more intensive than porting or building systems similar to those that were present in 2,3,4 and Horizon.

This isn't about previous games though. It's about functionality that that has been removed or dumbed down that happens to line up with the priority, availability and real world cost given to tokens In Forza 5.

 

[eastx]

So there is a version of Forza 5 you can buy whose design and progression isn't compromised by microtransactions? If not, it's not optional.

You really do seem to have trouble understanding the word optional. If someone says that spending on tokens is optional, that means that you can play the game without spending on tokens. People are doing that. Even if the design of the game encourages spending on tokens, the act of spending remains optional - a choice of the player.

 

[BigDug13]

You really do seem to have trouble understanding the word optional. If someone says that spending on tokens is optional, that means that you can play the game without spending on tokens. People are doing that. Even if the design of the game encourages spending on tokens, the act of spending remains optional - a choice of the player.

Yes, and if a design decision was made to slow the natural progression of the player in order to "encourage" those transactions, that should be a game avoided by that gamer.

 

[eastx]

Yes, and if a design decision was made to slow the natural progression of the player in order to "encourage" those transactions, that should be a game avoided by that gamer.

Well, that is up to the individual. It obviously bothers some people more than others.

 

[Fortinbras]

Careful with those pitchforks folks.

I reached out to Microsoft because I wanted to discuss the subject on the Weekend Confirmed we recorded today. I asked some of the hard questions that I had.

Dan replied via email to my questions, through Microsoft PR.

Because they were longer than I expected and I wanted to be sure they were not misquoted coming from the show so I passed it over to Andrew to publish the transcript and as a courtesy let Microsoft know I was doing so.

Microsoft asked for a hold while the comments were approved for online publication. We had already pushed the publish button. As they had provided the access and responses to not honor that request would obviously negatively impact future conversations with their developers.

I knew I had the answers and that we discussed them on the show so there was no risk of their content being changed. And had they been I simply would not have run them, waited for the show to run, and then publish the transcript of the show.

And that's all there is to it. If I want to be able to ask these folks questions, I have to show them professional respect. As for the answers, I leave them to speak for themselves. I too have follow ups on a number of issues that seemingly went unaddressed. I can ask the questions but I cannot force the answers.

Can you ask them about the false advertising of the Limited Collector's Edition? There should have been enough tokens included to grant instant access to any car in the game like it was announced. The LCE includes 1250 tokens, the Lotus E21 ist 10000 tokens so there is content missing.

The announcement is still on the official site, it's written on the back of the box and the game is still being sold with false information at retailers.

People are complaining on the official forums and Turn 10 is ignoring them.

 

[BigDug13]

Well, that is up to the individual. It obviously bothers some people more than others.

Right, and that's pretty much the point of these discussions, to let gamers know what this game has hidden inside of it that apparently nearly all of the major game reviewers seemed to ignore.

And as you can tell by this thread, it bothers a shitload of people.

 

[plasmawave]

The PR spin is pissing me off more than anything.

http://www.shacknews.com/article/82...t-5-creative-director-defends-in-game-economy

 

[Rengoku]

Careful with those pitchforks folks.

I reached out to Microsoft because I wanted to discuss the subject on the Weekend Confirmed we recorded today. I asked some of the hard questions that I had.

Dan replied via email to my questions, through Microsoft PR.

Because they were longer than I expected and I wanted to be sure they were not misquoted coming from the show so I passed it over to Andrew to publish the transcript and as a courtesy let Microsoft know I was doing so.

Microsoft asked for a hold while the comments were approved for online publication. We had already pushed the publish button. As they had provided the access and responses to not honor that request would obviously negatively impact future conversations with their developers.

I knew I had the answers and that we discussed them on the show so there was no risk of their content being changed. And had they been I simply would not have run them, waited for the show to run, and then publish the transcript of the show.

And that's all there is to it. If I want to be able to ask these folks questions, I have to show them professional respect. As for the answers, I leave them to speak for themselves. I too have follow ups on a number of issues that seemingly went unaddressed. I can ask the questions but I cannot force the answers.

Ugh, sorry Garnett, I know you tried, I know you don't want to burn any bridges, but I'm just frustrated at the way this industry works. The PR spin on some of these answers are just ridiculous.

 

[J_Lee]

The PR spin is pissing me off more than anything.

http://www.shacknews.com/article/82...t-5-creative-director-defends-in-game-economy

Yup it is rather sickening all the spin, I haven't even played Forza ever and was looking forward to Forza 5 and I am already sick of the game and the people that make it.

 

[Chitown B]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJbIbZEIhps#t=250

 

[Version 3.0]

I gotta admit, even though the facts have me advocating people to not buy this game, I'm tempted to buy it myself just to see: does it really feel like a rip off, or is it just when you've seen the math?

The answer to that question will probably go a long way to determining whether there's any reak backlash over this.

Unless we get one of those "kid maxes out his parent's credit card" stories that the mainstream news picks up.