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Forza 5: The monetization is even worse than you think.
- Thread starter NullPointer
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they should return the X1 get an PS4, wii u or wait for an steambox. exactly because you are unable to get a game with out micro transactions is the reason you should boycott it. The only way they stop, they will do an 180 again and say they are so cool for listening to the gamers.
QuicheFontaine
Member
I wouldn't just rely on the driveatar to make you money. To unlock all the cars it's going to cost you 104,501,000 CR.
So while 130k a week for nothing sounds good, it'd take you 803 weeks to save up that much. That's over 15 years.
And that's end of the life cicle of Xbone and then Forza 6 comes out and rinse and repeat again!
theignoramus
Member
reviewers from the UK seem to have reacted more harshly to this than US based reviewers.
Turn 10 set the bar with Forza 4, one of these many problems is that F5 has half the cars, half the tracks, gutted out community features that people liked and the compensation is "fuck you pay me more money" We already had a generation where sequels had a disappointing amount of content in the game compared to their predecessors, FFXII > FFXIII and GTA:SA > GTA IV and they got called out for it, adding microtransactions to make up for worse progression ontop of that is insane.
hooijdonk17
Member
No free XBOX Live and Forza Tokens in the UK I'd presume..
Not surprising after how we saw the 360 turned out.
Over two thousand dollars to have a complete roster in free play mode. Are you shitting me?
I was REALLY considering jumping in this gen with consoles, but holy hell this has completely turned me off. I'll definitely be watching other games and if this trend continues, I'm not even entering this generation. It was bad enough when I heard Sony was charging for Multiplayer, but this is the straw that broke my back.
I was REALLY considering jumping in this gen with consoles, but holy hell this has completely turned me off. I'll definitely be watching other games and if this trend continues, I'm not even entering this generation. It was bad enough when I heard Sony was charging for Multiplayer, but this is the straw that broke my back.
polyh3dron
Banned
Ugh even after all the fucking 180s MS did for this XBOne launch it still seems like exploitation of their consumer base was a very high priority.
Does GAF do petitions and that sort of thing? I'd sign an anti Micro Transactions one in a heart beat. It doesn't really affect the 'gamer' though, it affects the parents/casuals I guess. Doesn't make it right though and its literally daylight robbery.
The way Phil Spencer says "you don't have to buy them". Bollocks to that, Phil. They are taking advantage big time.
The way Phil Spencer says "you don't have to buy them". Bollocks to that, Phil. They are taking advantage big time.
It already was questionable in Forza 4, but at least you got Cars every now and then for progress and all cars where available in the Quickrace/Hotlap mode. I also lucked out on Forza 4 thanks to money glitch. Oh and will there be a marketplace for Cars like in 4? you really could get some cars on the cheap on the market.
Overall this practice is despicable and should not be tollerated I think Forza 5 just shows that micro transactions has an impact on how a game is designed and how progression works.
Overall this practice is despicable and should not be tollerated I think Forza 5 just shows that micro transactions has an impact on how a game is designed and how progression works.
Partial Gamification
Banned
I'm not defending their practices but here again I think there is an over estimation that could be unduly fair to the actual game dynamics. The drivatar shouldn't just earn money in the background so that, from day one, unlocking the game is a matter of just waiting and not playing the game. That seems as bad as letting people pay to unlock everything. The drivatar does earn more credits as one advances with the game, right? The drivatar gets better as you get more stuff and better tuned? Its only one means to earn credits and its a passive system and this time frame sits well with the projected life of the console.
If hunting whales is now a thing, a sort of serious game, then sharpen your harpoons and turn up that side-sweeping sonar because this motherfuckering microtransaction abuse is going to need to get beached, and then there impaled by the masses. Talking about how long someone has to [not] play does not seem a valid criticism, to me.
If unlocking all the content (without in-app purchases) in the game takes a massive 1+ years(or even 1 month in some cases) without there being any content in the game which keeps players occupied or enjoyable till that duration, it is just a chore or an artificial barrier keeping you from completing the game.
The very first intent a player has when he boots up a game is, to get that <thing> at spot/rank/location no.1 in the game..against the AI/Environment. To get a sense of achievement, either casually or by light* grinding.
Not to mention to showcase such an achievement either passionately or as a bot for that spot/rank/location no.1 in the game over or against other players in the community to show the time spent/dedication they put into their own sort of unofficial competitive environment.
The way micro transaction is implemented in the game, is just not right nor enjoyable.
Edit: And its a launch title for console(which doesn't have many launch titles).
Edit 2: Players chose how they want to unlock the game, over a long period of time or in a very short duration. Developers forcing players to unlock the game over a long period of time, is giving less freedom to the players. (Aka. Buy freedom with bling $$$.$$)
Crippling Free Play and the ability to choose any car for multiplayer is the saddest part about the changes to support microtransactions. Both features I've used tonnes in Forza 3/4. The community marketplace also has gotten crippled due to microtransactions sadly.
A bit sad that this is what the Forza series has come to. Microtransactions crippling traditional forza multiplayer/freeplay, multiple season passes, la ferrari as day one dlc.
A bit sad that this is what the Forza series has come to. Microtransactions crippling traditional forza multiplayer/freeplay, multiple season passes, la ferrari as day one dlc.
QuicheFontaine
Member
My point was, while 130k a week for doing nothing may sound good, it's such a drop in the ocean that it might as well not be there.
Again, this is like something from a f2p model. Provide a system where you get a free bag of gold/cash/smurfberries/etc every day and people will feel like they're getting free stuff in the game.
Then set prices so high that the only way to unlock stuff in a reasonable time is to pay real money. The free daily in-game currency is just a hook to keep people playing.
I so hate it when you have to do mindless grind to be able to unlock the better cars. Would be much better if they had a challenge system that made you unlock them. I mean the money is just a simple representation of you doing a lot of races. It's not like real life where you have a job, do savings, sell furnutiure, win the lottery and whatever. In the game you can only gain money by doing races. So with the focus on that they should make it more interesting to race for your super cars.
no, I've gotten around 100K a day playing a couple hours a night. You can get 5-7K for a gold medal, easy. so about 800 days (not weeks) if you want them all for free. Which gives the game about a 2.5 year life. That's about right.
dead monkey uk
Member
You will not need to wait that long, there will be a new Forza out next year and Forza 6 will be out in 2015. MS are going to milk this Forza cow till its dry.
While the microtransactions are bad lets be reasonable...unlocking all cars isnt even a thing.
QuicheFontaine
Member
Yeah, playing. I was talking about letting the drivatar earn money. Did you read my post?
And sure, you're going to play this game for a couple of hours every day - EVERY DAY - for the next two and a half years. Of course.
Autumn turns to Winter turns to Spring. Day in, day out, you'll still putting in those two hours every single day, driving round the same 14 tracks. And two and a half years later, you'll finally be able to play all the cars from the game (and the ones you paid extra for) in Free Mode. And it won't cost you a penny.
QuicheFontaine
Member
Not for free it's not. And yet there's still people on here pretending that charging for the cars isn't a big deal because "you can unlock them for free".
Edit: Damn doublepost
It sure used to be.
Didn't you have to grind like crazy to get that final car in GT prologue or something like that?
hooijdonk17
Member
I remember unlocking pretty much everything in FM1 and PGR3. It happens if you like the game and if it happens as part of the career mode.
VibratingDonkey
Member
Traditionally it probably hasn't since Gran Turismo 2 at least. Doesn't feel like that much of an issue when there's 600+ cars. But it taking ages to get access to all the cars has always been a stupid thing with these games. Imagine the original intent is to make cars representative of how rare and unobtainable they are in real life, with the goal of making them feel like proper rewards for the work you've put in. But these are videogames. You should be encouraging players to have fun, not work.
Anyone done the numbers on previous Forza's yet? I'd be willing to wager cars are harder to come by in Forza 5. Would be cool to get the difference quantified.
I haven't got the game yet (should be delivered today), but has there been any info on how VIP gift cars will work this time around? In Forza 3 the VIP gifts were great and I ended up getting a ton of good cars from it, but Forza 4 was less so if I recall.
On the concerns about how long it would take to buy every car in the game, I don't really think that is a fair metric. Yes, some people will want to own every car in the game but in sim racing games with hundreds of cars I don't think it is reasonable to expect to be able to own them all without grinding for a long period of time. That being said, the token prices seem really out of whack this time around.
On the concerns about how long it would take to buy every car in the game, I don't really think that is a fair metric. Yes, some people will want to own every car in the game but in sim racing games with hundreds of cars I don't think it is reasonable to expect to be able to own them all without grinding for a long period of time. That being said, the token prices seem really out of whack this time around.
I liked both of those games and put a ton of time into them and still never came close to unlocking everything. Maybe I just play differently. I unlock a car in a ceratin classification and if i don't like it I buy another one. I don't remember in any GT / Forza / PGR game unlocking every car in every class. Hell in GT I wasn't going to waste the money I accumulated on 32 versions of nissan skyline.
That said it is kind of a bummer that winning a whole series doesn't get you a car.
It was a grind, but it wasn't too crazy IIRC. A few hours perhaps.
GT PSP, now that was a grind. The fucking rotating dealerships made collecting all 850+ cars a nightmare. I still did it though.
Car enthusiasts and achievement hunters mostly, I'd imagine.
I think that when you finish the last event in the 'career' mode, all remaining cars should unlock. It's content that you paid for, you should be able to access it in a reasonable manner. Maybe hold one car back for 'All Gold Medals!' or something like that.
This is totally reasonable.
I'm not saying this isn't a good idea, and this is pretty much how the PGR games worked, but I just don't see the Forza/GT type games going down this path for better or for worse.
Worse
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
100k for a 5 minute race. 20 hours for the top car and thats forgetting special events which can give you millions easily.
QuicheFontaine
Member
Unlockables are nothing new to videogames, but I'd prefer it if they were at least based on skill rather than grind. I had to work like a mofo to unlock The Kid in Super Meat Boy, but it was just two rock hard levels. If you were good you could do it in 5 minutes; it took me all day.
I would never moan about not being able to play as The Kid from the beginning. But if they changed it so that you unlocked The Kid after simply playing for 200 hours, then had a thing pop-up after ever level saying "Unlock The Kid, only $2.99!". Yeah. That would fucking suck.
Partial Gamification
Banned
yeah. I just see all this and feel there is nothing I can do about it.
I'm crazier than captain ahab.
theignoramus
Member
no, you could download a save file. and in GT5 there was the birthday glitch
Good to see more European media outlets mentioning the awful micro transactions in their reviews.
http://www.thesixthaxis.com/2013/11/26/forza-motorsport-5-review/
http://www.thesixthaxis.com/2013/11/26/forza-motorsport-5-review/
Zatoichi's Cane
Member
I feel like we don't deserve any better as gamers because we keep supporting shit like this.
Microsoft: "Here's your Forza copies to review and some free Xbones to do it on! Don't sweat how much content we cut out or the absurd microtransactions we've added, they don't even need to be mentioned!"
Enthusiastic 'press': "OMG thanks so much we are so happy to be involved in this industry and be viewed as important and part of the club and get to go to parties and trade shows and get stuff for freeeeeeeeeeeee!"
Microsoft: "Yeah cool, now shut up PR puppet. Don't mention the god damned microtransactions or cut content alright, or you can kiss your memberships to the cool boy's club of this industry good bye!"
Enthusiastic 'press': "OH NEVER! We wouldn't dream of it! We're really just talentless nerds who cater mostly to a hardcore segment of gamers and do everything in our power to flaunt our exclusivity to the industry geeks boys' club and thus faux superiority over said hardcore geeks so as to pretend we are actually important to the industry, and not just shameless PR shills who are even worse than regular PR shills because WE PRETEND WE AREN'T SHAMELESS PR SHILLS!"
Microsoft: "Jesus crap shut the hell up. Ok Sony, give them their damn PS4's and let's get lunch, I'm starving."
Nintendo: "Hey guys want to play the new Zelda?"
Enthusiastic 'press': 10 OUT OF 10! *dies
Enthusiastic 'press': "OMG thanks so much we are so happy to be involved in this industry and be viewed as important and part of the club and get to go to parties and trade shows and get stuff for freeeeeeeeeeeee!"
Microsoft: "Yeah cool, now shut up PR puppet. Don't mention the god damned microtransactions or cut content alright, or you can kiss your memberships to the cool boy's club of this industry good bye!"
Enthusiastic 'press': "OH NEVER! We wouldn't dream of it! We're really just talentless nerds who cater mostly to a hardcore segment of gamers and do everything in our power to flaunt our exclusivity to the industry geeks boys' club and thus faux superiority over said hardcore geeks so as to pretend we are actually important to the industry, and not just shameless PR shills who are even worse than regular PR shills because WE PRETEND WE AREN'T SHAMELESS PR SHILLS!"
Microsoft: "Jesus crap shut the hell up. Ok Sony, give them their damn PS4's and let's get lunch, I'm starving."
Nintendo: "Hey guys want to play the new Zelda?"
Enthusiastic 'press': 10 OUT OF 10! *dies
Like I said, I played Halo 3 for 3 years straight, probably 3-4 hours a night.
If you don't, you don't. And if you don't, you didn't care anyway. You're complaining about wanting to drive cars. You can drive cars. If you don't want to play the game, then it's moot anyway. It's circular.
Plus, you were never going to JUST have the Drivatar play.
QuicheFontaine
Member
That's not at all what I'm complaining about. Jeez, this is like talking to a brick wall.
My complaint is that "but you can unlock them for free" is not a reasonable reply to people's concerns over microtransactions affecting the overall game design. It takes so long that for most people (not you), that time commitment is impossibly large. So most people (again, not you) can't unlock them for free.
I thought I explained this reasonably well in this earlier post. I get it, honestly I do. You're just going to play the game and you enjoy it. That's fine, I've really got nothing to say to that.
QuicheFontaine
Member
aspiegamer
Member
Yeah, the Ferrari F2007 and it cost the maximum amount of credits. It wasn't a matter of months to get, though. Please don't hold me to this, but I vaguely remember only spending a few days working toward it. 10-15 hours at maximum is what I'll say. If anyone has a better recollection please correct me, but I personally can't recall there ever being any level of frustration in working toward it.
It was also worth every single minute of that grinding once you got to drive it! Point being, even if it were 10x as long as my 10 hours vague memoryguesstimate that's still not as bad as the Forza stuff. This was entirely obtainable with a bit of dedication.
So let me ask you guys this. Is it possible to play the game, and unlock most of the cars without paying micro-transactions? Or is the majority of the cars SO expensive (even in game), that you can only have them via real money?
I guess I just want to know how significant it is. I despise micro-transactions, but for me, it's when they actually impeded on the game design itself that I won't pay for it. Can you play this game, and enjoy it and be able to unlock most things, or is it really THAT bad?
I guess I just want to know how significant it is. I despise micro-transactions, but for me, it's when they actually impeded on the game design itself that I won't pay for it. Can you play this game, and enjoy it and be able to unlock most things, or is it really THAT bad?
Slackbladder
Member
My God that's an insanely loooong time.
Just to add, with Seasonal Events in GT5 it's pretty easy to make 1 milliom credits an hour, more if you're good at the game. Most races gift around 300,000 for a win and a race takes around 8 mins or so. As long as something like this is in GT6 I'll be happy.
As for Forza 5, is there Marketplace working yet? Last I looked on a friends Xbone it wasn't, so I could'nt check the cost of the Tokens.
you can buy all cars by just playing the game. But it'll take a long time.
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