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Forza 5: The monetization is even worse than you think.
- Thread starter NullPointer
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I don't care about it. But this is my first Forza game. I don't need 100% of the cars. I'll get what I can afford with credits, and have fun.
QuicheFontaine
Member
Neat. But do you at least understand why other people care about it?
Cross-posting from the Avalanche thread:
CraZed
Member
This▲ 1000x!
NullPointer
Member
The word is getting out. Seeing this thread referred to in several articles, forums and blogs, reddit, etc now.
I wonder if any of this attention is influencing discussions around the soon to come maps like the Nurburgring, or if all of that has already been laid out far in advance and set in stone.
MS has to at least know they've pissed off some of their core audience big time. When TeamVVV calls the game out, you'd imagine MS would take notice.
Edit: And this might help explain why we're seeing more mobiel free-to-play elements in console games:
Now, how many whales do you think MS needs to justify these monetization practices? If they're willing and able to spend thousands...
I wonder if any of this attention is influencing discussions around the soon to come maps like the Nurburgring, or if all of that has already been laid out far in advance and set in stone.
MS has to at least know they've pissed off some of their core audience big time. When TeamVVV calls the game out, you'd imagine MS would take notice.
Edit: And this might help explain why we're seeing more mobiel free-to-play elements in console games:
According to this (courtesy of EEDAR and Kotaku), whales spend most of their time gaming on consoles.
Now, how many whales do you think MS needs to justify these monetization practices? If they're willing and able to spend thousands...
Sure. But it would need to be organised to be effective and who's going to do that?
transformer
Member
The funny thing about this thread is that most of you complaining don't even own the game or have even played it. That is clear by many of the nonsensical comments being put forth. I agree that micro transactions are not a good thing, but this game is fantastic despite that. If you all want to take a stand against microtransactions, then don't buy them. You need not boycott the game, that is not the problem. I recall a similar situation with online passes that eventually went away due to a lack of consumers supporting/purchasing them. Bottom line, if sales are poor on microtransactions then they will go away.
breadtruck
Member
Yes please.
I kinda want to play Forza 5 though so...
Mt Heart Attack
Member
So buy it secondhand.
(since MS is so generous as to allow us to do that, at least for a couple of years more)
I've bought every Forza game since #2 including the new one, but I've never, and will never purchase DLC for them. If the sequel tries this crap again I will not be buying it. If this is what I can expect from the system as a whole, I will be selling it once I've had my fill of Killer Instinct. The bluray drive was probably a dollar bill acceptor before the 180.
crazygambit
Member
But he currently makes the best nachos. The best.
MoneyLaunderer
Member
It seems Microsoft is making a ton of bad decisions with the Xbone and are trying to get money any way possible, considering Turn 10 is a Microsoft studio. They dipped their toe in the water with the whole 'tokens' thing in Horizon and dove into the deep end with Forza 5. Definitely won't be getting this game if I ever decided to buy a Xbone.
Version 3.0
Member
Surely you can see that buying the game, but not buying any tokens, is the ONLY way to 100% ensure that all future games follow this model. It's the best possible scenario from Microsoft's point of view. If the microtransactions don't prevent any game sales, then any profit on microtransactions at all nets them more money.
Microsoft undoubtedly assumed that some people would be turned off by this, but also are expecting that microtransaction profit would more than make up for it. The only scenario in which they would backtrack on this model is if game sales decline, and decline sharply - along with clear feedback from the community that this nickel-and-dime model is the reason.
Buying the game, whether you buy any tokens or not, is encouraging this microtransaction model.
It was getting rave reviews and no one really mentioned it.
NullPointer
Member
Gametrailers actually mentioned it, kindof. Not the crazy insane token prices, but all the other ways that the game nags you to buy car packs.
Fornaximus
Member
I think Eurogamer was the only mainstream outlet to touch on it with any sort of significance.
admartian
Member
Screw this!
I'm mad because there's potential for this to eke out to other games, at an un-feasible/exploitation-like levels.
This is not just an MS issue however, as GT6 seems to be doing something akin to this. Let's hope games don't result to this, and if so, at lest either a) make it F2P AND make cars less than $1 each, OR b) don't sell cars separatley outside of MAYBE big DLC packs.
I'm mad because there's potential for this to eke out to other games, at an un-feasible/exploitation-like levels.
This is not just an MS issue however, as GT6 seems to be doing something akin to this. Let's hope games don't result to this, and if so, at lest either a) make it F2P AND make cars less than $1 each, OR b) don't sell cars separatley outside of MAYBE big DLC packs.
QuicheFontaine
Member
No. Buying this game encourages the propogation of this model. Boycotting games that have microtransactions sends a message to people like Phil Spencer, who has just said that they are analysing purchasing habits to "learn how to craft the experience", that you don't want them. Buying these games sends exactly the wrong message if you find microtransactions odious.
I'd understand people's points about not caring if it were true that the core game wasn't affected. But as an article posted higher up points out, the game is now balanced with tempting you to buy credits in mind. It would also bug me while playing, thinking that for every high priced car they're just trying to swindle out microtransactions from me. It's always in the back of your head.
Then they have to play for 500 hours just to unlock all the cars. Great idea.
The game is designed to be a grind-fest, so that plenty of people will give up and pay additionally. The only way to go against that is not to buy the game. It's that simple.
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
I disagree. Microtransactions like this cost nothing. There is no product they are pouring man hours into. You buying the game tells them you are okay with whatever they do in that game. Even if only 10% of users ever buy into the microtransactions, that is still 100% profit they wouldn't have made otherwise. Why would they care if the other 90% only gave them the initial $60?
transformer
Member
I believe bad publicity and little to no purchasing via microtransactions will be an incentive for publishers not to continue with his trend. It's all about economics.
thesolidshark
Member
I think either way, you'd be better off messaging MS/Turn 10/whoever you can saying how much you hate the microtransactions and grinding, on top of not buying the microtransactions or the whole game. They'll specifically know about it then.
Heard that it was possible that the American publications who reviewed might've had a copy where every car was available. If it's true that the cost or time put in to get everything is pretty insufferable, I wonder how valuable that would make those review copies. Sad irony is they might go for another insufferable price on eBay.
good boy
now go home and get your fucking shine box
Its a racing game......we expect this when buying it. Dont get how ppl complain about this in a racer. Do you expect 50000 tracks or something? The real test is setting the best time on a track, thats the fun.
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
As long as sales are great, ain't nobody at MS giving a fuck about bad publicity. Especially when much of that bad publicity never touches the ears and eyes of your average consumer.
You're right, it's all about economics. Which is why there is no incentive to not do this. Again, it's free money. You don't buy any of it, great you still gave them you're $60. You do buy it, great you gave them extra money that they had to do no work for.
Sadly, there's probably no real winning. If you don't buy the game, it's more likely the (admittedly good) series gets shelved than them examining the situation and deciding to blame the DLC and cutting the bullshit out of part 6.
No the game is about the cars and getting to play with them. If after a 1000 hours you only have half of them unlocked, where's the fun?
You know, I hate to beat a dead horse but....
In addition, Forza Motorsport 5 Limited Edition owners will receive a custom Steelbook case, a decal sheet featuring Forza Motorsport 5, Xbox One, and Audi window decals, and 1,250 car tokens (a $9.99 value) that will allow Limited Edition owners instant access to any car in the game. The Forza Motorsport 5 Limited Edition will be available for an estimated retail price of $79.99 at launch and is now available for pre-order at participating retailers.
Last paragraph of that page. I don't know if that was brought up before in this topic.
They are off by a factor of what... eight? Something has gone really wrong.
In addition, Forza Motorsport 5 Limited Edition owners will receive a custom Steelbook case, a decal sheet featuring Forza Motorsport 5, Xbox One, and Audi window decals, and 1,250 car tokens (a $9.99 value) that will allow Limited Edition owners instant access to any car in the game. The Forza Motorsport 5 Limited Edition will be available for an estimated retail price of $79.99 at launch and is now available for pre-order at participating retailers.
Last paragraph of that page. I don't know if that was brought up before in this topic.
They are off by a factor of what... eight? Something has gone really wrong.
I've never had a needle in my eye, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't like it. As for buying the game and not tokens, if the game progression is broken to encourage token purchases, you are still fucking yourself in the long term if you buy the game as pubs will see the sales as approval of the model.
How so not playing the game invalidate our point about microstransaction will affect a game's design? Nobody here ever trashed Forza 5 for its driving mechanics or physics, all of the "nonsensical" comments like you said is directed at the microtransaction practice that might somewhat change the game whole design. Please elaborate then, why not playing the game invalidate our point?
Neuromancer
Member
As repugnant as it is, I honestly wouldn't mind the fact that developers and publishers are actively going after addicts and taking advantage of them... So long as the base game is free to play. But when they're asking for $60+, and they do this shit, it's absolutely unacceptable.
eastx
Member
Problem is, the game selling poorly is just as likely to result in them retiring the Forza brand. Not buying a game does not specifically tell the publisher why you object to it. They might have a post-op discussion about sales and acknowledge review criticism about specific design decisions. A single message board discussion or even a few are so much less likely to get brought up during that discussion.
IMO it's most important to get the press in on the discussion as well as directly contacting various Microsoft and Turn 10 employees via Twitter, etc. It's not super likely, but Microsoft could decide to patch the game to reduce the car costs or otherwise balance things out. They certainly have a post-release update plan, so you'd really just want to get the message to them while there is still time to act on it.
Fortinbras
Member
It's false advertising. It's even written on the back of the LCE. People are complaining on the official forums. I expect Microsoft to sit this one out though. They won't gift people 10.000 tokens.
However it shouldn't be a problem to return the game and get the money back.
lastflowers
Banned
There is a marketplace coming soon, and its very possible that their tuning of the payouts in game was mispreportioned to their desired curve of credit gathering.
As it stands now my driveatar is making me around 130k a week for me doing nothing. As a newcomer to the series and Sims, I have around 800k banked by doing very poorly on most career events. If I go try and get gold in the four career series I've done, I'd imagine I'd be at 1.3 or so million credits. At the lowest of the low career modes too. I haven't dabbled in the rivals, but that seems like the money maker for grinding.
As it stands now my driveatar is making me around 130k a week for me doing nothing. As a newcomer to the series and Sims, I have around 800k banked by doing very poorly on most career events. If I go try and get gold in the four career series I've done, I'd imagine I'd be at 1.3 or so million credits. At the lowest of the low career modes too. I haven't dabbled in the rivals, but that seems like the money maker for grinding.
NullPointer
Member
Why wouldn't they? That'd seem to be a very simple solution to that particular problem.
They promised LCE owners enough tokens to afford any single car in the game. They need to abide by that promise.
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