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[Chitown B]

is there any way to get the Forza 5 LE pack digitally? I wanted to go all digital so I bought the game over XBL, yet there seems to be no way to upgrade to LE version. For instance, on Dead Rising 3 there is a premium version and regular version. CoD regular and Hardened version.

https://store.xbox.com/en-US/Xbox-One/Games/

 

[Ekushiria]

Forza is tainted with it, Dota 2 and LoL are rotted with monetization to their very core.

Do you even play Dota 2? ...you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[NervousXtian]

Do you even play Dota 2? ...you have no idea what you are talking about.

Yeah, I can see some LoL complaints.. but dota2 is 100% playable with no money spent at all.. it doesn't even TRY to get you to spend money.

 

[supersaw]

Yeah, I can see some LoL complaints.. but dota2 is 100% playable with no money spent at all.. it doesn't even TRY to get you to spend money.

Yes, and the base game ISN'T 60 FUCKING DOLLARS

 

[kmg90]

Wait some people are comparing Forza 5's microtransaction model to Dota 2 and League?

 

[NullPointer]

Nothing new, but Kotaku has a short writeup:

​Forza 5 Economy Adjusting After Angry Fan Feedback

 

[Shaneus]

Nothing new, but Kotaku has a short writeup:

​Forza 5 Economy Adjusting After Angry Fan Feedback

Can you quote the juicy bits? Kotaku blocked at work.

 

[Puppet Shadow]

Can you quote the juicy bits? Kotaku blocked at work.

The bulk of the article is a gaf post:

After learning a bit more about how Forza 5 works, I must say, they definitely have made some changes that are, without a doubt, designed to encourage people to buy cars with real money to the detriment of the game experience.

Seems like earning potential and car prices haven't changed. That's the good news.

But these few things all combine to make a pretty big and noticeable difference:

- No cars unlocked as you level. There is no logical, game-enhancing reason this was taken out. Its something that most everyone enjoyed. Some tweaks could have been to the 'progression' of cars you unlocked, but certainly no one wanted the whole system taken out.

- Manufacturer affinity is gone. This was something that also could have used some tweaking, but was otherwise a very good idea. Before, you could basically get free upgrades quite quickly. That could have used changing. It was definitely too quick. But again, people liked the system and it didn't warrant taking out. The fact that you can use tokens to buy upgrades now makes it blatantly obvious what the intentions were here.

- Free Play no longer allows you to drive any car in the game. Before, while some cars were quite expensive, it didn't stop people from the enjoyment of driving them if they wanted to. You just wouldn't own the car, couldn't customize it or race it in career. This was a fantastic compromise, as you could test drive anything you wanted and even if you couldn't afford an expensive car you really liked, you could still get to experience it out on-track. With that gone, it really pushes at the car collector types to pay real money.

- No buying/selling paints/setups/vinyls. You can still make some money off of this, but there will clearly not be any sort of ecosystem built around this like before. No reason for this to have happened. People *loved* the way it was.

- Buying cars and upgrades, the game definitely treats 'car tokens' as an equally viable way of bartering. Every step of the way, prices are given in credits and tokens, with equal font size and all, even going as far as having a little pop-up menu to 'confirm' whether you're going to buy with credits or tokens.

It all amounts to a blatant attempt at encouraging people to spend more money. All at the detriment of the game from several important angles.

So I was wrong here guys for defending this. I didn't realize it was going to be that bad. Its definitely not like previous Forza's at all and is totally shameful.

 

[Slayer-33]

Nothing new, but Kotaku has a short writeup:

​Forza 5 Economy Adjusting After Angry Fan Feedback

Here's NeoGAF user SeanSpeed

E-FAMOUS

 

[Whiteshirt]

From the look of things, they're not really sorry. The only people who get something are those who pre-ordered. Even then, the 50% discount is like available for like two days.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

E-FAMOUS

Lol, I don't think SeanSpeed is even that bothered by microtransactions tbh. But he's in the OP of this huge-ass thread and now he's getting quoted on news sites!

 

[Mt Heart Attack]

New Content Patch from TotalBiscuit on the issue. Now before anyone skewers me or TB, he pretty much addresses why it's bad and why the idea of 'don't like it, don't buy' it does nothing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mpx4R9SY98o

Totally nails it.

 

[Phades]

^

And yes, you can get it with in-game currency. Paying real world money is NOT the only way to get these cars. Edit: Unless they are DLC cars that is. DLC cars need to be bought on the marketplace in real money, and then bought again with in-game currency, or yet again with tokens to actually own them in-game.

Holy crap that is straight up evil.

Yo dawg, I heard you like to pay for the privelage to pay, in order to pay again, but before that is done realize that you want to pay one more time.

Spoiler

Did i miss a pay? I lost count. (Game/system/live)->DLC->in game currency->???

I guess long gone are the days where you could just pop in the disc and simply play the entire game.

I haven't seen it yet, but what is the total MSRP on this game when you add everything up and buy it with real cash (including DLC)?

 

[Dead Man]

Did you buy tokens that let you jump directly to page 19 of this thread?

Heh

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

^

And yes, you can get it with in-game currency. Paying real world money is NOT the only way to get these cars. Edit: Unless they are DLC cars that is. DLC cars need to be bought on the marketplace in real money, and then bought again with in-game currency, or yet again with tokens to actually own them in-game.

But Forza 5 has also removed most of the ways you would get in-game cash, currency and discounts in previous Forzas. It also shipped with far, far less content than Forza 4.

What the fuck??

 

[SneakyStephan]

I know you know better, this is a dumb comparison. I agree they should not. But acting like MS is leading this charge is wrong.




And only one was not designed specifically for F2P and designed COMPLETELY around getting players to give them money. Forza is tainted with it, Dota 2 and LoL are rotted with monetization to their very core.

There is literally no incentive to spend a single euro on dota2
EVERYTHING , all the characters all their abilities everything is unlocked from the moment you first start the game

There is no grind in this game, zero, none, nada
All the features are available to everyone, even tournaments can be viewed freely on twitch or youtube.

The only things you can buy in this game are community created weapon/clothing skins for the heroes (which do nothing in the game and are dropped by playing as well and serve no purpose)
The only other thing are tickets to watch tournaments in the game client itself LIVE while you can manipulate the camera and select commentators (a feature which no other videogame even has), most of the proceeds of these tickets goes to the prize pools of said tournaments...

Most of the proceeds from skins go to the people who made the skins, which can be anyone in the community

Dota is free, the last game that was as free or freeer than this was return to castle wolvenstein

Man if only every single videogame on pc or consoles was like dota... no grind, no bars to fill, no nickle and diming, amazing gameplay, tons of features other games don't have (including the ability to upload and share match replays like the good old quake engine .demos) and you don't have to pay a thing and aren't inconvenienced in any way.

ot :

Charles_UEvan Narcisse541L
So remind me again what you're paying $60 dollars for?

The ability to buy cars? Today 4:37pm


ExistentialEggUCharles_441L
No, the ability to buy cars... at 50% OFF!!!! For a limited time! It's a bargain at twice the price! Act now! Today 4:41pm

these two comments are perfect

 

[NullPointer]

What the fuck??

Just to be sure, thats not a new thing, but you're reading it right.

With DLC cars you first pay real money for the DLC, which puts those cars into your game, but not in your personal garage. To actually own the car, you have to buy it at its full in-game currency price, and some of these cars are very expensive.

So to help ease this process Turn 10 offers tokens that you can purchase to cover these in-game currency prices. And yes, you buy tokens with (more) real-money.

Thats a double pay-wall, and its always been obscene. But now with this latest Forza they've seen fit to raise those token prices significantly, so as to keep those exclusive cars more exclusive.

The fact that they stand to make a lot of money doing it is purely a coincidence.

 

[Desty]

DLC cars need to be bought on the marketplace in real money, and then bought again with in-game currency, or yet again with tokens to actually own them in-game.

Say what?

 

[NoPiece]

I'd just like them to honestly answer why they don't unlock all the cars in free drive, because there is only one possible answer: they want to extract more money from their customers. And that's why microtransactions suck, especially in retail games. And please don't give me this affinity BS...

 

[Xenon]

Do you even play Dota 2? ...you have no idea what you are talking about.

There is literally no incentive to spend a single euro on dota2
EVERYTHING , all the characters all their abilities everything is unlocked from the moment you first start the game

There is no grind in this game, zero, none, nada
All the features are available to everyone, even tournaments can be viewed freely on twitch or youtube.

The only things you can buy in this game are community created weapon/clothing skins for the heroes (which do nothing in the game and are dropped by playing as well and serve no purpose)
The only other thing are tickets to watch tournaments in the game client itself LIVE while you can manipulate the camera and select commentators (a feature which no other videogame even has), most of the proceeds of these tickets goes to the prize pools of said tournaments...

Most of the proceeds from skins go to the people who made the skins, which can be anyone in the community

Dota is free, the last game that was as free or freeer than this was return to castle wolvenstein

Man if only every single videogame on pc or consoles was like dota... no grind, no bars to fill, no nickle and diming, amazing gameplay, tons of features other games don't have (including the ability to upload and share match replays like the good old quake engine .demos) and you don't have to pay a thing and aren't inconvenienced in any way.

ot :

these two comments are perfect

I already apologized for Dota2. Sorry to lump it in with LoL. I'll update my post.

 

[Nakor]

I already apologized for Dota2. Sorry to lump it in with LoL. I'll update my post.

Thanks, I've been playing LoL for over 2 years - and I still don't have all the champions. It's a terrible beast, but I love it.

 

[unbias]

New Content Patch from TotalBiscuit on the issue. Now before anyone skewers me or TB, he pretty much addresses why it's bad and why the idea of 'don't like it, don't buy' it does nothing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mpx4R9SY98o

That is good enough for its own topic, honestly(and I dont even like his personality).

 

[Xenon]

and had progressive aspects like auction house and prize cars ripped the hell away

Something tells me it had more to do with development time than trying to screw their customers.

Who made the conscious effort to add F2P pricing into a $60 retail game? I'll give you a hint, it wasn't the consumer. Get the fuck out of here with this corporate apologist bullshit, it's infuriating. F2P games need a pricing model, that's how they make money. But oh no, dur dur everyones dumb for buying F2P content and we deserve everthing that comes to us. It's our fault that companies can't help but want more of our money, and it's our duty to give it to them willingly. MS are being villified because they are taking a $60 retail game and trying to see how much shit we will put up with. The more people speak up and don't accept it, the more likely they will be to back down.

It's not corporate apologist bullshit, its a realistic look at how buying trends affect gaming. My main points were

1. People supporting F2T and P2W models with in-game transactions are responsible for the direction gaming is heading. Trying to say this is all MS when other companies are doing is bullshit.

2. People comparing a game in it's third iteration on a console to one barely finished at launch is silly. Turn 10 may be following MS PR's lead and trying to play off the lack of content as,"we meant to do that." But I believe they did their best with the time allotted, well except the 10 car DLC. That was fucking stupid.


I will admit I am not addressing the main point because it's more then covered here. So I will say that I hate it. But there were some changes that actually interested me. I enjoyed the carpg portion of the games but hated that cars were given away like candy in the previous game I played. Just when I was getting into one car a much better one would be handed to me. Less is more for me in that respect. Then again I never played the game like Pokemon and had to collect them all.

 

[NullPointer]

1. People supporting F2T and P2W models with in-game transactions are responsible for the direction gaming is heading. Trying to say this is all MS when other companies are doing is bullshit.

What MS is trying to pull with Forza 5 is pretty insane though. This is a full price game with expensive limited editions and a whole slate of premium DLC laid out ahead of it and yet it still feels the need to nickle and dime while also raising the price ceiling to the stratosphere.

"Everybody's doing it" in the free-to-play and mobile space doesn't really justify this.

And who else has microtransactions in all of their launch exclusives? MS stands alone here.

 

[theignoramus]

Something tells me it had more to do with development time than trying to screw their customers.

wouldnt it be easier to go with the structure theyve used for years for the community features and career progression rather than tear it down and build a completely new, less user friendly structure? your excuse doesnt hold water. not sure why you are insinuating MS is the victim here, the poor scapegoat. Thats bullshit.

 

[Xenon]

What MS is trying to pull with Forza 5 is pretty insane though. This is a full price game with expensive limited editions and a whole slate of premium DLC laid out ahead of it and yet it still feels the need to nickle and dime while also raising the price ceiling to the stratosphere.

"Everybody's doing it" in the free-to-play and mobile space doesn't really justify this.

And who else has microtransactions in all of their launch exclusives? MS stands alone here.

The problem I have is most people in this thread are convinced that this is some MS mandate to screw their customers without any proof. Most of the problems people have brought up could just as likely be due to them rushing the game to market. The adjustments made to the economy could have been done to add length to the game. Which may have had them rethink the dlc value to match the time required. I think that is a possibility. But just like all the other conjecture in here I have nothing to back up that claim.

wouldnt it be easier to go with the structure theyve used for years for the community features and career progression rather than tear it down and build a completely new, less user friendly structure? your excuse doesnt hold water. not sure why you are insinuating MS is the victim here, the poor scapegoat. Thats bullshit.

See above

 

[NervousXtian]

Was there as much of an outcry about Forza 4 having some similar microtransactions? though admittedly they were less expensive.

 

[supersaw]

Was there as much of an outcry about Forza 4 having some similar microtransactions? though admittedly they were less expensive.

Forza 4 unlocked top tier cars as well giving you in-game currency to buy cars of your choice as you levelled up, there was also a free play mode where you could race the top tier cars outside of career. From what I understand they severely limited free play and you no longer earn car rewards for levelling up.

 

[crazygambit]

What MS is trying to pull with Forza 5 is pretty insane though. This is a full price game with expensive limited editions and a whole slate of premium DLC laid out ahead of it and yet it still feels the need to nickle and dime while also raising the price ceiling to the stratosphere.

"Everybody's doing it" in the free-to-play and mobile space doesn't really justify this.

And who else has microtransactions in all of their launch exclusives? MS stands alone here.

Holy shit. I hadn't realized that, but it's pretty damning if true.

 

[hooijdonk17]

Was there as much of an outcry about Forza 4 having some similar microtransactions? though admittedly they were less expensive.

I personally did not buy it.

 

[Doczu]

Was there as much of an outcry about Forza 4 having some similar microtransactions? though admittedly they were less expensive.

I stopped buying Forza since the third one. Neither 4 or Horizon (how good they are) are worth the grind/microtransaction shit.

 

[Orca]

The bulk of the article is a gaf post:

The bulk of the article is based on the musings of a guy who hasn't played the game. Isn't that the kind of video games journalism GAF usually rages about?

 

[Terbinator]

Thanks, I've been playing LoL for over 2 years - and I still don't have all the champions. It's a terrible beast, but I love it.

It's still a poor comparison, though.

The only time i've ever bough all the cars on Forza was 2 to get the achievement and which involved God knows how many 50 lap races of the oval. You do not need to spend money, or indeed own all the champions, on League to be successful.

 

[FunnyBunny]

Just to be sure, thats not a new thing, but you're reading it right.

With DLC cars you first pay real money for the DLC, which puts those cars into your game, but not in your personal garage. To actually own the car, you have to buy it at its full in-game currency price, and some of these cars are very expensive.

So to help ease this process Turn 10 offers tokens that you can purchase to cover these in-game currency prices. And yes, you buy tokens with (more) real-money.

Thats a double pay-wall, and its always been obscene. But now with this latest Forza they've seen fit to raise those token prices significantly, so as to keep those exclusive cars more exclusive.

The fact that they stand to make a lot of money doing it is purely a coincidence.

The blow was always softened by the fact DLC cars were immediately available in free drive. Do we know if DLC cars in Forza 5 will be immediately drivable in some form?

 

[watership]

Holy crap that is straight up evil.

Yo dawg, I heard you like to pay for the privelage to pay, in order to pay again, but before that is done realize that you want to pay one more time.

Spoiler

Did i miss a pay? I lost count. (Game/system/live)->DLC->in game currency->???

I guess long gone are the days where you could just pop in the disc and simply play the entire game.

I haven't seen it yet, but what is the total MSRP on this game when you add everything up and buy it with real cash (including DLC)?

Forza DLC that you buy and then have to buy in game with in-game currency has been there since Forza 3 I believe. That isn't new. You could still drive the cars in free mode, but in career you needed to earn them.

What's new is that they're promoting the "real money to progress faster" harder than previous games and the free drive mode is more limited. I just bought the game and I'm trying to figure out if these changes bother me personally.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

The blow was always softened by the fact DLC cars were immediately available in free drive. Do we know if DLC cars in Forza 5 will be immediately drivable in some form?

DLC cars in Forza 5 are not immediately drivable. You've got to buy them (again) in game, either using earned CR or tokens that you buy with real money.

 

[Nymphae]

With DLC cars you first pay real money for the DLC, which puts those cars into your game, but not in your personal garage. To actually own the car, you have to buy it at its full in-game currency price, and some of these cars are very expensive.

Paying to unlock a feature that still needs to be unlocked with in game currency? That is some straight up bullshit. I didn't know this had been present in Forza already, wow.

 

[ElNino]

DLC cars in Forza 5 are not immediately drivable. You've got to buy them (again) in game, either using earned CR or tokens that you buy with real money.

I believe they are available to use in free play, but you would need to buy them in the career mode. Considering the (very simple) glitch to allow any car to be available for "rent" in free play, I hope if they remove the glitch that they simply allow all cars to be drivable in free play like it was in F4.

Paying to unlock a feature that still needs to be unlocked with in game currency? That is some straight up bullshit. I didn't know this had been present in Forza already, wow.

DLC cars were available to be used in all modes outside of career without buying them with in game currency, so it's not really as big of a deal as it's being made out to be. However, in F5 you currently are restricted to what cars you can drive in free play without using a glitch that may or may not be patched out.

 

[Unknown One]

Forza DLC that you buy and then have to buy in game with in-game currency has been there since Forza 3 I believe. That isn't new. You could still drive the cars in free mode, but in career you needed to earn them.

What's new is that they're promoting the "real money to progress faster" harder than previous games and the free drive mode is more limited. I just bought the game and I'm trying to figure out if these changes bother me personally.

Sounds like they were planning to butter you guys up for monetization of this scale.

 

[snap0212]

I'd just like them to honestly answer why they don't unlock all the cars in free drive, because there is only one possible answer: they want to extract more money from their customers. And that's why microtransactions suck, especially in retail games. And please don't give me this affinity BS...

People probably were satisfied with only using the cars in free drive mode and didn't buy them afterwards. You don't make any money by letting people do something for free so that's why you now either have to pay or get nothing.

There was a discussion between CheapyD, Arthur Gies and another person on Twitter about this. Gies basically said it wasn't a problem for him and ignored the complaint about him not including it in his review. I'm so happy I saved that retweet of his that was something along the lines of "Privilege is thinking something is not a problem because it's not a problem for you".

 

[QuicheFontaine]

I believe they are available to use in free play, but you would need to buy them in the career mode. Considering the (very simple) glitch to allow any car to be available for "rent" in free play, I hope if they remove the glitch that they simply allow all cars to be drivable in free play like it was in F4.

You believe wrong.

And the simplicity of the glitch is completely beside the point. They don't want you being able to drive the cars without buying them in game, one way or another.

 

[ElNino]

You believe wrong.

And the simplicity of the glitch is completely beside the point. They don't want you being able to drive the cars without buying them in game, one way or another.

My mistake, I thought that DLC cars would be available to rent in free play but I guess they are not.

You are right that the glitch does not excuse the current way it is set up, and I didn't mean to imply that it did. My only point was that it was a simple work around that would hopefully pave the way for them to open up the free play mode rather than they more restrictive rent list.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

My mistake, I thought that DLC cars would be available to rent in free play but I guess they are not.

You are right that the glitch does not excuse the current way it is set up, and I didn't mean to imply that it did. My only point was that it was a simple work around that would hopefully pave the way for them to open up the free play mode rather than they more restrictive rent list.

Completely understandable. I'm willing to bet a lot of people who bought this game thought the same thing coming off the back of Forza 4.

 

[Chitown B]

so I bought the VIP pack. However, I cannot for the life of me find anywhere to see my status or get my included cars. I installed it, and I can't do anything else to the "VIP" App.

 

[Acccent]

Hey, sorry to be asking something that's probably been covered but I just noticed something:

The tokens' prices actually increase the bigger the pack?
ie. You get 100 tokens for $1, so if you were to buy only this pack you'd have to pay $100 for 10000 tokens...
...while if you get a $100 pack, you get only 8000 tokens?

Am I missing something? I can't be the first one to notice this. Did they change it with the update?

 

[Morzak]

Was there as much of an outcry about Forza 4 having some similar microtransactions? though admittedly they were less expensive.

It already was a bit iffy in Forza 4, but they didn't hamper progression or anything else to entice you to buy cars with Tokens you just could. Free Play allowed for all cars to be driven. Recieving Cars for progress and a playerbased economy where you could get cars way below the normal ingame price. With Manfuacturer affliction you got basically all upgrade parts for free.

The problem is those games never got a big push back and now companies like MS are trying how far they can go. If this blows over, you can bet that EA / Activision will implement them as aggressive. And it will not help not using the micro-transactions, as long as a few whales spend a ton of money it will be lucrative for the publishers.

 

[Vorg]

The bulk of the article is based on the musings of a guy who hasn't played the game. Isn't that the kind of video games journalism GAF usually rages about?

Is any of it untrue, though? If you feel Seanspeed's post is inaccurate, could you please say why?

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Hey, sorry to be asking something that's probably been covered but I just noticed something:

The tokens' prices actually increase the bigger the pack?
ie. You get 100 tokens for $1, so if you were to buy only this pack you'd have to pay $100 for 10000 tokens...
...while if you get a $100 pack, you get only 8000 tokens?

Am I missing something? I can't be the first one to notice this. Did they change it with the update?

Hehe, yes well spotted. But lots of people have pointed that out.

The prices in the OP were from a preview video and never went live. Nullpointer should edit the OP really.

 

[NullPointer]

The prices in the OP were from a preview video and never went live. Nullpointer should edit the OP really.

Does anybody have an updated screen? What exact changes were made?

I don't have the game, nor will I ever by the look of things, so that makes it more difficult to keep up with changes.

 

[Chitown B]

where are the half price cars? they're all the same in my game, right now.

edit: nevermind, it seems to now say "New Price" above the prices.